More money wasted on Maddie case

[LeazesMag 0]

A quote from Kate McCann's book:

 

"Madeleine was hard not to love"

 

However, she was easy to leave in an apartment at 3 years old with her 18-month old siblings.

 

Complete and utter negligence for which they are paying the highest price

 

exactly.

[ewerk 30678]

Yeah I must admit that was my first reaction on hearing about this. Have they written a book or something, cos interest in the whole thing seems to have been reignited - complete with "I couldn't make love to Gerry" tabloid headlines.

 

lol how did you guess

 

Yup and i'm assuming the sun or someone have helped them publish it,girl in work buys it and I think the first 6 pages of the sun everyday this week was a "Maddie!" section.

 

Horrible what's happened to that kid, but i still think it was the parents.

Couldn't agree more.

 

My first thought when seeing Kate McCann has a book out about the daughter she left alone was she's got a fucking chee,k seen as though she's one of the prime suspects (imo).

 

The idea behind the book is to raise money for the fund and to keep the story in the media, seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do imo.

[Guest alex]

The attention given to this (obviously tragic) single event is ridiculous imo. I suppose it perfectly fits what the media (and by extension the general public) view as 'good' story. Totally agree with Cath as well.

[NJS 4389]

I think the line that almost goes as far as "they deserved it" is a line too far - my view has always been that the negligence reduces the sympathy I would feel but not to anywhere near zero.

 

I think the danger for them now is that people are starting to lose more sympathy for them not having the good grace to quietly go away - I can understand that but at the same time as Chez says its hard to think you wouldn't do the same yourself (the effort to find her not the original negligence).

[Ketsbaia 0]

They did it.

[ChezGiven 0]

The attention given to this (obviously tragic) single event is ridiculous imo. I suppose it perfectly fits what the media (and by extension the general public) view as 'good' story. Totally agree with Cath as well.

To make that judgement you need to say there are examples where less attention was given. I know there were a few from the 70s and 80s in the press when it happened but i would say you cant make that judgement on the level of attention unless you produce an example of an abducted British 3-5 year old in the last 5 years who received less.

 

Does anyone have one?

[Guest alex]

Tbh Chez, I would guess there must have been but I actually based it on the fact that countless people (including kids) die in tragic circumstances every single day. I appreciate they aren't as newsworthy but I find that, in itself, to be ridiculous. I.e. some deaths, etc. are 'worth' more than others. I also realise that's inevitable.

Edited May 16, 2011 by alex

[ChezGiven 0]

I dont think there any examples of a British child abducted abroad in the last 5 years. There may be some at home in the UK but then again, not sure. Its not exactly a common occurence and hence should be treated that way. That woman who bought the pizza was an adult and the attention to her murder was enormous and rightly so. I am of the opinion that its not just easy to criticise, its immoral too. (only because i believe her to have been abducted, if thats not true then it all changes of course).

 

Imo, the investment of resources into this crime are justified if you know for sure she was abducted as then you know she was abducted for sex. Society should stop at nothing to bring the perpetrators of such action to justice, no matter how society arrives at that endpoint (via parents organising global media campaigns or whatever).

[Guest alex]

I take your point like. Resources are finite though and there comes a time when you probably have to accept that the trail has gone cold and the people or person to blame will never be caught. The case won't officially be closed and nor should it be but you could conceivably send 100 officers from the Met over and you'd still unveil nothing new and/or useful. It's very harsh to have to say so but that wouldn't be right imo.

[ChezGiven 0]

You bring up a really interesting point, when society can keep someone alive on life support with little chance of recovery, after a short period of time you stop. The reasons are moral; to continue spending the money, denies that money elsewhere and therefore denies effective treatment elsewhere.

 

When it comes to the legal system though, we pursue 'justice' without accounting for the cost. Legal cases can cost millions to secure and society permits this pursuit irrespective of cost. Its as though justice doesnt have a price, yet life itself does (as 'revealed' by the resources society allocates to these things). The next question is why should one case of justice receive more attention and money than another? Thats what has been under scrutiny i guess but i've tried to address that already.

 

In the end your right though, the case is cold and there is little or no chance that her abducters will ever be found. Pragmatically speaking, its a waste of time if they are never caught. Who knows though, someone who knows something may one day come forward.

[ewerk 30678]

Cute blonde children sell papers.

 

Pandering to the masses wins votes.

 

Simple.

[Guest alex]

You bring up a really interesting point, when society can keep someone alive on life support with little chance of recovery, after a short period of time you stop. The reasons are moral; to continue spending the money, denies that money elsewhere and therefore denies effective treatment elsewhere.

 

When it comes to the legal system though, we pursue 'justice' without accounting for the cost. Legal cases can cost millions to secure and society permits this pursuit irrespective of cost. Its as though justice doesnt have a price, yet life itself does (as 'revealed' by the resources society allocates to these things). The next question is why should one case of justice receive more attention and money than another? Thats what has been under scrutiny i guess but i've tried to address that already.

 

In the end your right though, the case is cold and there is little or no chance that her abducters will ever be found. Pragmatically speaking, its a waste of time if they are never caught. Who knows though, someone who knows something may one day come forward.

I would like nothing more than to see the bastard behind this caught mind. I think I'm probably coming at this more from the viewpoint of criticising the media. There's something that didn't sit right with me about the whole circus with reporters being camped out on the Algarve for weeks on end etc.

[Happy Face 29]

In the end your right though, the case is cold and there is little or no chance that her abducters will ever be found. Pragmatically speaking, its a waste of time if they are never caught. Who knows though, someone who knows something may one day come forward.

 

Now's your chance CT.

 

Pounce!

[Rob W 0]

I think there was a case in Crete in the early 1990's but the parents weren't good looking middle class types and so the story died after a week

 

Someone was saying that there are around 60 child abductions in the UK a year and in 70% of them the child is returned within 24 hours

 

the number of cases without a find or a body is very very low

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Has there ever been any firm evidence about this 'suspected paedophile ring' Chez?

[NJS 4389]

I think there was a case in Crete in the early 1990's but the parents weren't good looking middle class types and so the story died after a week

 

That might be a case I remember where they found the kid a few years later - the abductors had just raised him as their own in a kind if direct action adoption.

[Guest alex]

I remember the case so I looked it up to jog my memory. He was called Ben Needham and it was Kos, not Crete. He's never been found though afaik.

[ChezGiven 0]

Has there ever been any firm evidence about this 'suspected paedophile ring' Chez?

I guess not, there is a possibility that a kind childless couple acted in bizarre desperation (as per NJS's example). The chances are that people like that could get children to adopt much more simply. The highest probability is that she was abducted by paedophiles.

 

The Crete case Rob, thats one example and it was before the internet. Which is why i specified the last 5 years. If a key factor in the discussion is the utilisation of new mass media and social networks etc then you cant look outside the period since the interest in the case was fuelled by the 'discussion' taking place on comments sections and message boards.

 

"Someone was saying that there are around 60 child abductions in the UK a year and in 70% of them the child is returned within 24 hours"

 

Dont pull figures out of your arse. Quotes, figures, stats, links and sources. If you cant find them, then try to refrain from making morally abhorrent judgements that are wholly predicated on their existence. The moral abhorrence comes from you ultimately being wrong, the kid actually died from anal rape in Russia and you're criticising the parents.

[Renton 21643]

I take your point like. Resources are finite though and there comes a time when you probably have to accept that the trail has gone cold and the people or person to blame will never be caught. The case won't officially be closed and nor should it be but you could conceivably send 100 officers from the Met over and you'd still unveil nothing new and/or useful. It's very harsh to have to say so but that wouldn't be right imo.

 

This is the key to me. Money spent on this case could be used to much greater effect to solve other crimes, or taking a wider perspective, it could be used in the NHS or education etc. During a time period where the NHS has to constantly justify funding new treatments on the basis of cost-effectiveness, I find it odd that the police do not have to transparently account for the use of their resources. I also think that the fact that this is quite a unique case is completely irrelevant (as it happens I am sure there were other similar cases).

 

One other thing though, the parenting skills of the McCann's is also not relevant, as it's the welfare of the child we should be concerned with. The trail is almost certainly cold now though.

[Happy Face 29]

Perhaps we need a police version of NICE to decide which crimes are cost effective to investigate and to fund investigation/prosecution only to a limited amount.

 

I suppose we already do it with petty crimes quite a bit, but I'm sure white collar crime gets far less funding than other crime, given the returns on prosecuting such a crime.

[NJS 4389]

Perhaps we need a police version of NICE to decide which crimes are cost effective to investigate and to fund investigation/prosecution only to a limited amount.

 

I suppose we already do it with petty crimes quite a bit, but I'm sure white collar crime gets far less funding than other crime, given the returns on prosecuting such a crime.

 

Would like to read cost/benefit breakdowns of all the small beer drug cases the police do.

[Ketsbaia 0]

Has there ever been any firm evidence about this 'suspected paedophile ring' Chez?

I guess not, there is a possibility that a kind childless couple acted in bizarre desperation (as per NJS's example). The chances are that people like that could get children to adopt much more simply. The highest probability is that she was abducted by paedophiles.

 

The Crete case Rob, thats one example and it was before the internet. Which is why i specified the last 5 years. If a key factor in the discussion is the utilisation of new mass media and social networks etc then you cant look outside the period since the interest in the case was fuelled by the 'discussion' taking place on comments sections and message boards.

 

"Someone was saying that there are around 60 child abductions in the UK a year and in 70% of them the child is returned within 24 hours"

 

Dont pull figures out of your arse. Quotes, figures, stats, links and sources. If you cant find them, then try to refrain from making morally abhorrent judgements that are wholly predicated on their existence. The moral abhorrence comes from you ultimately being wrong, the kid actually died from anal rape in Russia and you're criticising the parents.

 

Is it really? To me it seems like guess work based on the obsessive nature of the British tabloids to shoehorn the noncing angle into every story going rather than any actual evidence she was twocked by a foreign Jez North.

[ewerk 30678]

Isn't the investigation being funded by the Home Office rather than by the police?

 

Not that it makes a massive difference, the opportunity cost is still there.

[Happy Face 29]

Perhaps we need a police version of NICE to decide which crimes are cost effective to investigate and to fund investigation/prosecution only to a limited amount.

 

I suppose we already do it with petty crimes quite a bit, but I'm sure white collar crime gets far less funding than other crime, given the returns on prosecuting such a crime.

 

Would like to read cost/benefit breakdowns of all the small beer drug cases the police do.

 

 

Chez's points reminded me of a series of podcast about white collar crime from 2009...

 

In the UK, people are twice as likely to suffer a serious injury at work than to be a victim of violent crime, yet only a fraction of safety crimes are actually prosecuted.

 

Globally, more people are killed at work each year than are killed in war. Why has corporate crime had a low priority, why has it been so hard to prosecute corporations and will the new crimes of corporate manslaughter and corporate murder make firms more responsible for the crimes they commit?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00nqht5

 

That was 2 years ago though. Meenzer posted a good article in the politics thread about how the Tories are slackening the laws on corporate crime to encourage business, unfortunatley.

[ChezGiven 0]

Has there ever been any firm evidence about this 'suspected paedophile ring' Chez?

I guess not, there is a possibility that a kind childless couple acted in bizarre desperation (as per NJS's example). The chances are that people like that could get children to adopt much more simply. The highest probability is that she was abducted by paedophiles.

 

The Crete case Rob, thats one example and it was before the internet. Which is why i specified the last 5 years. If a key factor in the discussion is the utilisation of new mass media and social networks etc then you cant look outside the period since the interest in the case was fuelled by the 'discussion' taking place on comments sections and message boards.

 

"Someone was saying that there are around 60 child abductions in the UK a year and in 70% of them the child is returned within 24 hours"

 

Dont pull figures out of your arse. Quotes, figures, stats, links and sources. If you cant find them, then try to refrain from making morally abhorrent judgements that are wholly predicated on their existence. The moral abhorrence comes from you ultimately being wrong, the kid actually died from anal rape in Russia and you're criticising the parents.

 

Is it really? To me it seems like guess work based on the obsessive nature of the British tabloids to shoehorn the noncing angle into every story going rather than any actual evidence she was twocked by a foreign Jez North.

Well the quickest way to address this is you list out all the plausible alternative scenarios and we apply logic to deduce which are the most likely. Its quicker if you do it as i have done this list already, yours could be different though.

 

Over to you.