Andy Carroll....Local Hero! O̶r̶ ̶J̶u̶d̶a̶s̶?

[LeazesMag 0]

 

'Accept' in what way? How can I improve the club other than being a fan? I 'accepted' inferiority under most of Shepherd's tenure as well don't forget. It's quite simple at the end of the day, I go to football to enjoy myself. If I don't, I should stop going. Something quite frankly I should have done when your man appointed Souness.

 

inferior to who ? By the way, Shepherd never owned the club, it was owned by the Halls and Shepherd from 1992 until 2007.

 

1 club in 97, 12 clubs in 98, 12 clubs in 99, 10 clubs in 00,10 clubs in 01, 3 clubs in 02, 2 clubs in 03, 4 clubs in 04, 13 clubs in 05, 6 clubs in 06 and 12 clubs in 07.

 

5 years out 11 we surpassed Ashley's unambitious target - in 6 we did not.

 

anybody but the Halls and Shepherd then

 

Didn't say that - just pointing out that those years weren't as good as you make out - I enjoyed that period (at least until Souness) as much as anyone but if you want to beat Ashley with the the "top 10 every year" stick you have to expect it being pointed out that if Shepherd had stated that as his target he would have failed. Since his stated target was higher than that he failed more.

 

Realistic targets no matter how painful are more achievable then pie in the sky bravado which is what you want since you can't actually suggest any method of changing the picture.

 

Realistic targets of 10th are OK for the likes of Blackburn and Bolton, but not NUFC, should be a lot higher than that.

 

You don't get it do you, you really think we are a small time 2nd rate club

[LeazesMag 0]

To be fair the small group who bait him (and the worst is no longer with us) are easily in the same ball park.

 

He no doubt loves it, any excuse to wheel out the same old lines.

 

aye, next season is gonna be just greeeeaaaat

 

Putting all the usual shite to one side, what performance on the field next season would convince you we were heading in the right direction. Simple question.

 

 

Leazes

 

I've said elsewhere. Keeping Enrique, Tiotte and Barton. Using the Carroll money to buy Daniel Sturridge, Kevin Davies and Matt Jarvis, put a bit more money and get a central defender, and make it clear to people interested in our best players they can fuck off, and aim for the top 6.

 

I know you will settle for standards of Blackburn and Bolton though, like NJS, Renton etc

[LeazesMag 0]

Few people in this thread haven't answered my questions by the way, although I don't expect them to realise they are under-selling the club.

[Christmas Tree 4821]

@ Leazes

 

So a finish next year of 8th or higher would be a decent season?

[LeazesMag 0]

@ Leazes

 

So a finish next year of 8th or higher would be a decent season?

 

I've answered you, I want to see the club showing it is progressive, reflected in performance and the desire to keep its best players.

[KrulsCurtains 0]

At the end of the day, as per the thread, Carroll moved to Liverpool for career reasons, so he isn't a "Judas", most people would do exactly the same. As football supporters, we should be asking why he saw Liverpool as a more attractive proposition and target our disappointment at those responsible, even more so if they forced him out, so lets have no more of any other nonsense and accept the truth.

 

 

Were you bothered when Hamann left? If you were, what did you do to target those responsible for him seeing Liverpool as a more attractive proposition?

[Christmas Tree 4821]

@ Leazes

 

So a finish next year of 8th or higher would be a decent season?

 

I've answered you, I want to see the club showing it is progressive, reflected in performance and the desire to keep its best players.

 

You haven't answered, you've been vague and said "aiming" for sixth.

 

I am trying to put all the crap to one side and get your opinion of what would be a decent finish next season. If you say nothing less than 6th, then I would no you we're being unrealistic. If you said 15th I'd be shocked.

 

So once again, what is the lowest position we could finish next season where you would be happy that we'd had a good season?

[Guest Your Name Here]

@ Leazes

 

So a finish next year of 8th or higher would be a decent season?

Building a team to finish in the top ten is a very different proposition to developing a squad that can push on to the next level. What we have done this season is what the likes of Bolton, Fulham and Blackburn have been doing for years. Namely put together a solid unit that works hard and plays a simple disciplined brand of football. These sort of clubs just plod along. Sometimes they have a good season and flirt with European qualification, sometimes they have a bad season and flirt with relegation. What they don’t do is play a style of football (or acquire the kind of quality) needed to build the foundation for real progression.

 

So to answer your question. 8th would be a decent season for a plodding club and it would be a decent season for NUFC, if it’s combined with a progressive style of play and influx of real quality. If we just bring in 2-3 of mediocre players and continue with our mid table footballing philosophy wheter we finish seventh of seventeenth hardly matters.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Your Name Here

[Guest Your Name Here]

@ Leazes

 

So a finish next year of 8th or higher would be a decent season?

 

I've answered you, I want to see the club showing it is progressive, reflected in performance and the desire to keep its best players.

He doesn’t get it. Arbitrary short term finishing positions aren’t the same thing as genuine progress.

 

Promotion under KK was achieved playing a style of football that could be built upon, and build on it is what the club did. Under Hughton promotion was all that mattered, what happened next treated as an irrelevance. We are a club with no vision that makes short term decision... like the sale of AC. He could (and should) have been one of the key elements on which a progressive team was built. What we’ll probably end up with is Charlton Cole and a couple of mediocre players.

 

If you want to create something that glitters you need to hang on to your rough diamonds.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Your Name Here

[LeazesMag 0]

At the end of the day, as per the thread, Carroll moved to Liverpool for career reasons, so he isn't a "Judas", most people would do exactly the same. As football supporters, we should be asking why he saw Liverpool as a more attractive proposition and target our disappointment at those responsible, even more so if they forced him out, so lets have no more of any other nonsense and accept the truth.

 

 

Were you bothered when Hamann left? If you were, what did you do to target those responsible for him seeing Liverpool as a more attractive proposition?

 

he fell out with the manager [how many times does this need to be said ?], Shearer and Lee would also have left if Gullit had stayed ? One example doesn't prove anything, instead look at the league positions, european qualifications, champions league run - do you think ManU are a selling club because they sold ronaldo ? Are Liverpool a selling club because they sold Torres ? In my first reply to you, you said to stop patronising you. Well points like you make here [and I'm sure you realise this] is asking to be patronised, you can do better than that and you know it. Such daft comments are worthy of the others.

 

What about Duff preferring us to Liverpool ?

[Christmas Tree 4821]

You are the one who doesn't get it!

 

I'm talking about Newcastle fans enjoying newcastle united.

 

If Leazes is forever going to gauge his enjoyment based on six or so years out of the last 70, then as others have said, he would be better taking up carpet bowls.

 

Virtually all football fans have to continually adjust their expectations depending on many various factors. That's why 44,000 can still have a good time in the championship.

 

That's why fans turn up at Sheffield, Leeds and Norwich.

 

If you can't look forward to a game / season....what's the point?

 

Everyone on this forum would love a one way progression to the top but that's unrealistic and not what football is about.

 

Your expectations / enjoyment must be geared to your current circumstances.

 

That's why an honest answer from Leazes about next season would be telling.

[LeazesMag 0]

@ Leazes

 

So a finish next year of 8th or higher would be a decent season?

 

I've answered you, I want to see the club showing it is progressive, reflected in performance and the desire to keep its best players.

He doesn’t get it. Arbitrary short term finishing positions aren’t the same thing as genuine progress.

 

Promotion under KK was achieved playing a style of football that could be built upon, and build on it is what the club did. Under Hughton promotion was all that mattered, what happened next treated as an irrelevance. We are a club with no vision that makes short term decision... like the sale of AC. He could (and should) have been one of the key elements on which a progressive team was built. What we’ll probably end up with is Charlton Cole and a couple of mediocre players.

 

If you want to create something that glitters you need to hang on to your rough diamonds.

 

indeed, it ironic that people on here were talking about the "club being built on quicksand" under the Halls and Shepherd, because they got to the top quickly. Have you ever heard such a load of bollocks as that

Now they latch onto Ashleys short term strategies and praise them.

 

The last owners made so many long term decisions, for the long term good and progression of the club, on and off the field, and compared to Ashley its an absolute no contest.

[NJS 4411]

Realistic targets of 10th are OK for the likes of Blackburn and Bolton, but not NUFC, should be a lot higher than that.

 

You don't get it do you, you really think we are a small time 2nd rate club

 

But he didn't deliver on that target for the majority of his tenure so our level under him was Blackburn and Bolton overall.

[LeazesMag 0]

You are the one who doesn't get it!

 

I'm talking about Newcastle fans enjoying newcastle united.

 

If Leazes is forever going to gauge his enjoyment based on six or so years out of the last 70, then as others have said, he would be better taking up carpet bowls.

 

Virtually all football fans have to continually adjust their expectations depending on many various factors. That's why 44,000 can still have a good time in the championship.

 

That's why fans turn up at Sheffield, Leeds and Norwich.

 

If you can't look forward to a game / season....what's the point?

 

Everyone on this forum would love a one way progression to the top but that's unrealistic and not what football is about.

 

Your expectations / enjoyment must be geared to your current circumstances.

 

That's why an honest answer from Leazes about next season would be telling.

 

I've gave you my answer, it isn't difficult. Long term signs of progression and the determination to do the right thing to attempt to achieve sustained real success, not selling your best players.

 

Are you now comparing us to Sheffield, Leeds and Norwich. Fuck me.

[LeazesMag 0]

Realistic targets of 10th are OK for the likes of Blackburn and Bolton, but not NUFC, should be a lot higher than that.

 

You don't get it do you, you really think we are a small time 2nd rate club

 

But he didn't deliver on that target for the majority of his tenure so our level under him was Blackburn and Bolton overall.

 

why do you consider us to be on the same level as Bolton and Blackburn

 

Why do you take notice of the tossers on skunkers and NO ?

Edited May 8, 2011 by LeazesMag

[NJS 4411]

The last owners made so many long term decisions, for the long term good and progression of the club, on and off the field, and compared to Ashley its an absolute no contest.

 

Do fuck off - they expanded the ground but apart from that heaped debt on the club and destroyed cash flow by spending sponsorship money upfront.

 

Why did they cut and run if it was all about the long term?

[LeazesMag 0]

The last owners made so many long term decisions, for the long term good and progression of the club, on and off the field, and compared to Ashley its an absolute no contest.

 

Do fuck off - they expanded the ground but apart from that heaped debt on the club and destroyed cash flow by spending sponsorship money upfront.

 

Why did they cut and run if it was all about the long term?

 

oh my fucking God.

 

Edit.

 

I'm just so stunned by that comment from NJS I don't know what to say

Edited May 8, 2011 by LeazesMag

[NJS 4411]

Realistic targets of 10th are OK for the likes of Blackburn and Bolton, but not NUFC, should be a lot higher than that.

 

You don't get it do you, you really think we are a small time 2nd rate club

 

But he didn't deliver on that target for the majority of his tenure so our level under him was Blackburn and Bolton overall.

 

why do you consider us to be on the same level as Bolton and Blackburn

 

I don't names aside and just considering position that's what we achieved under his tenure overall - average position 8.6 counting 96-97 as under him or 9.4 if not.

 

That's about the level of Ashley's target which you think is unacceptable.

[Toonpack 9925]

The last owners made so many long term decisions, for the long term good and progression of the club, on and off the field, and compared to Ashley its an absolute no contest.

 

Do fuck off - they expanded the ground but apart from that heaped debt on the club and destroyed cash flow by spending sponsorship money upfront.

 

Why did they cut and run if it was all about the long term?

 

Exactly

 

Interesting that the "cut and run" happened just when the cash was really drying up an all. Not hate, I don't care enough to hate, just the truth.

 

Oh and paging Stevie, while I'm on, I am awaiting my post of yesterday, you know the one you stated was "pish" to be "properly replied to" as you said you would.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Toonpack

[NJS 4411]

The last owners made so many long term decisions, for the long term good and progression of the club, on and off the field, and compared to Ashley its an absolute no contest.

 

Do fuck off - they expanded the ground but apart from that heaped debt on the club and destroyed cash flow by spending sponsorship money upfront.

 

Why did they cut and run if it was all about the long term?

 

oh my fucking God.

 

 

Name the long term decisions then oh business guru.

[Renton 21982]

The last owners made so many long term decisions, for the long term good and progression of the club, on and off the field, and compared to Ashley its an absolute no contest.

 

Do fuck off - they expanded the ground but apart from that heaped debt on the club and destroyed cash flow by spending sponsorship money upfront.

 

Why did they cut and run if it was all about the long term?

 

oh my fucking God.

 

Edit.

 

I'm just so stunned by that comment from NJS I don't know what to say

 

The Halls did cut and run Leazes, leaving us with Ashley. What's so funny about that? It's an absolute, incontrovertible fact, and the question deserves more than a response I would expect form a twelve year old.

[LeazesMag 0]

The last owners made so many long term decisions, for the long term good and progression of the club, on and off the field, and compared to Ashley its an absolute no contest.

 

Do fuck off - they expanded the ground but apart from that heaped debt on the club and destroyed cash flow by spending sponsorship money upfront.

 

Why did they cut and run if it was all about the long term?

 

oh my fucking God.

 

 

Name the long term decisions then oh business guru.

 

God, you're clueless.

[Renton 21982]

The last owners made so many long term decisions, for the long term good and progression of the club, on and off the field, and compared to Ashley its an absolute no contest.

 

Do fuck off - they expanded the ground but apart from that heaped debt on the club and destroyed cash flow by spending sponsorship money upfront.

 

Why did they cut and run if it was all about the long term?

 

oh my fucking God.

 

 

Name the long term decisions then oh business guru.

 

God, you're clueless.

 

Great answer that like.

[LeazesMag 0]

 

Do fuck off - they expanded the ground but apart from that heaped debt on the club and destroyed cash flow by spending sponsorship money upfront.

 

Why did they cut and run if it was all about the long term?

 

oh my fucking God.

 

 

Name the long term decisions then oh business guru.

 

God, you're clueless.

 

Great answer that like.

 

its so ridiculous its impossible to laugh.

 

Why do you think we are on the same levels as Bolton and Blackburn ?

 

I'll give you a clue Renton, when the Halls and Shepherd found the club, we were competing at the levels of clubs like Shrewsbury and Plymouth.

 

That post by NJS is the most clueless post I've EVER read, and by fuck, thats saying something.

[Renton 21982]

its so ridiculous its impossible to laugh.

 

Why do you think we are on the same levels as Bolton and Blackburn ?

 

I'll give you a clue Renton, when the Halls and Shepherd found the club, we were competing at the levels of clubs like Shrewsbury and Plymouth.

 

That post by NJS is the most clueless post I've EVER read, and by fuck, thats saying something.

 

The question isn't about the circumstances of when the Halls took over, but about when they left. If the club was so financially stable and well set up, why did they cut and run?

 

I don't think a single person on here would deny btw that they did an excellent job in the early years. Problem is though that the World has changed. To be successful now you have to have massive global appeal and very deep pockets, and it's nigh on impossible to make a personal profit like the Halls and Shepherd did for so many years (at great detriment to the club in the last few years). Essentially, neither family were big enough players, and they sussed this out a lot qucker than you have (if you ever will).