Andy Carroll....Local Hero! O̶r̶ ̶J̶u̶d̶a̶s̶?

[Toonpack 9925]

The Robson appointment was a no-brainer for the board but he was only interested in the job because of the stature of the club at the time (the lowly league position notwithstanding).

 

He wanted the job because he was out of work AND it was his hometown club, stature was immaterial.

 

When KK left they went for Robson (credit to them for that) who was at Barca at the time, I remember seeing an interview with him, he was absolutely torn (anguished even) between staying there, because he was contracted, or coming here as it was a question of "his honour over his heart", he actually used words very close to those. Of course Barca shortly thereafter repaid his "honour" by canning him.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Toonpack

[LeazesMag 0]

The Robson appointment was a no-brainer for the board but he was only interested in the job because of the stature of the club at the time (the lowly league position notwithstanding).

 

exactly, he wasn't interested in the club when Seymour, McKeag etc were the board, so lets have no more of this romantic "coming home to the club I've always wanted to manage" rubbish.

[Guest alex]

The Robson appointment was a no-brainer for the board but he was only interested in the job because of the stature of the club at the time (the lowly league position notwithstanding).

 

He wanted the job because he was out of work AND it was his hometown club, stature was immaterial.

 

When KK left they went for Robson (credit to them for that) who was at Barca at the time, I remember seeing an interview with him, he was absolutely torn (anguished even) between staying there, because he was contracted, or coming here as it was a question of "his honour over his heart", he actually used words very close to those. Of course Barca shortly thereafter repaid his "honour" by canning him.

I know all that and I remember the interview in question. It was on the pitch or at the training groung of Barcelona iirc. It's absolute fucking bollocks to say the stature of the club at the time wasn't a factor in his decision to come here though. In fact I would suggest it played a major role in the reason why he was torn about whether or not to take the job when it was offered to him on the occasion you're talking about. Are you seriously suggesting he'd have considered leaving Barcelona at that time (which we both agree he did consider) were it not for the position the club was in then? Laughable to suggest it wasn't a major factor in his being initial thinking about coming here and also taking the job not long afterwards. Of course being a fan and being available were also factors but he was never interested in being Newcastle manager before the previous regime transformed our fortunes.

[LeazesMag 0]

We need owners who set these standards all the time, give credit where its due FFS.

 

I agree - unfortunately they sold to someone who didn't.

 

We don't need Ashleys pockets to set our aims higher than the likes of Bolton, Blackburn and attempt to compete with clubs like Spurs and Liverpool

 

We need Ashley's pockets to stop going bust sadly.

 

that's crap that like. When over 90% of clubs in this country are running in debts, you can't say that they are all going to go bust, especially a club like NUFC, bringing in the revenues it was bringing in, with a city centre stadium and the support it now gets ? If we were ever going to go bust we would have went bust in 1990-91. You are taking far too much notice of what Dekka is telling you, and those fools on skunkers who can't bring themselves to admit they are hypocrites that have been spouting bollocks and were wrong.

 

Thats true, and I would rather not go down this road again, having started to go full circle.

[LeazesMag 0]

The Robson appointment was a no-brainer for the board but he was only interested in the job because of the stature of the club at the time (the lowly league position notwithstanding).

 

He wanted the job because he was out of work AND it was his hometown club, stature was immaterial.

 

When KK left they went for Robson (credit to them for that) who was at Barca at the time, I remember seeing an interview with him, he was absolutely torn (anguished even) between staying there, because he was contracted, or coming here as it was a question of "his honour over his heart", he actually used words very close to those. Of course Barca shortly thereafter repaid his "honour" by canning him.

I know all that and I remember the interview in question. It was on the pitch or at the training groung of Barcelona iirc. It's absolute fucking bollocks to say the stature of the club at the time wasn't a factor in his decision to come here though. In fact I would suggest it played a major role in the reason why he was torn about whether or not to take the job when it was offered to him on the occasion you're talking about. Are you seriously suggesting he'd have considered leaving Barcelona at that time (which we both agree he did consider) were it not for the position the club was in then? Laughable to suggest it wasn't a major factor in his being initial thinking about coming here and also taking the job not long afterwards. Of course being a fan and being available were also factors but he was never interested in being Newcastle manager before the previous regime transformed our fortunes.

 

precisely

[Toonpack 9925]

The Robson appointment was a no-brainer for the board but he was only interested in the job because of the stature of the club at the time (the lowly league position notwithstanding).

 

He wanted the job because he was out of work AND it was his hometown club, stature was immaterial.

 

When KK left they went for Robson (credit to them for that) who was at Barca at the time, I remember seeing an interview with him, he was absolutely torn (anguished even) between staying there, because he was contracted, or coming here as it was a question of "his honour over his heart", he actually used words very close to those. Of course Barca shortly thereafter repaid his "honour" by canning him.

I know all that and I remember the interview in question. It was on the pitch or at the training groung of Barcelona iirc. It's absolute fucking bollocks to say the stature of the club at the time wasn't a factor in his decision to come here though. In fact I would suggest it played a major role in the reason why he was torn about whether or not to take the job when it was offered to him on the occasion you're talking about. Are you seriously suggesting he'd have considered leaving Barcelona at that time (which we both agree he did consider) were it not for the position the club was in then? Laughable to suggest it wasn't a major factor in his being initial thinking about coming here and also taking the job not long afterwards. Of course being a fan and being available were also factors but he was never interested in being Newcastle manager before the previous regime transformed our fortunes.

 

Of course the "stature" or position of the club made the approach worth considering, post KK, but to say the same circumstance existed when he was finally appointed is rubbish. He was out of work.

 

Was he ever even approached previous to the Hall/Shep regime ???

[Guest alex]

Of course the "stature" or position of the club made the approach worth considering, post KK, but to say the same circumstance existed when he was finally appointed is rubbish. He was out of work.

I didn't. I'm not going to keep arguing about it tbh but I think you're being completely naive if you don't think the stature at that time was the main motivator in his coming to the club.

[Toonpack 9925]

that's crap that like. When over 90% of clubs in this country are running in debts, you can't say that they are all going to go bust, especially a club like NUFC, bringing in the revenues it was bringing in, with a city centre stadium and the support it now gets ? If we were ever going to go bust we would have went bust in 1990-91. You are taking far too much notice of what Dekka is telling you, and those fools on skunkers who can't bring themselves to admit they are hypocrites that have been spouting bollocks and were wrong.

 

Thats true, and I would rather not go down this road again, having started to go full circle.

 

Can't let that one pass, sadly.

 

Yes football clubs run with large debts and yes NUFC is totally different kettle of fish, why, not because we're "bigger" BUT because our debt was structured/held totally different to ALL other Prem Club debt. As in what it was secured against. Our debt was 110% guaranteed by the fabric of the club. Other clubs debt is partially secured against assets but without exception is guaranteed/undwerwritten by owners.

 

Meaning if the debts are called in, the owners lose the cash and assetts of the club remain. We did not have that.

[Toonpack 9925]

Of course the "stature" or position of the club made the approach worth considering, post KK, but to say the same circumstance existed when he was finally appointed is rubbish. He was out of work.

I didn't. I'm not going to keep arguing about it tbh but I think you're being completely naive if you don't think the stature at that time was the main motivator in his coming to the club.

 

If he'd come post KK you'd have a point. I also accept if we were in the third division he wouldn't have come when he did. I suspect if he was in work, he wouldn't have come when he did either.

[LeazesMag 0]

that's crap that like. When over 90% of clubs in this country are running in debts, you can't say that they are all going to go bust, especially a club like NUFC, bringing in the revenues it was bringing in, with a city centre stadium and the support it now gets ? If we were ever going to go bust we would have went bust in 1990-91. You are taking far too much notice of what Dekka is telling you, and those fools on skunkers who can't bring themselves to admit they are hypocrites that have been spouting bollocks and were wrong.

 

Thats true, and I would rather not go down this road again, having started to go full circle.

 

Can't let that one pass, sadly.

 

Yes football clubs run with large debts and yes NUFC is totally different kettle of fish, why, not because we're "bigger" BUT because our debt was structured/held totally different to ALL other Prem Club debt. As in what it was secured against. Our debt was 110% guaranteed by the fabric of the club. Other clubs debt is partially secured against assets but without exception is guaranteed/undwerwritten by owners.

 

Meaning if the debts are called in, the owners lose the cash and assetts of the club remain. We did not have that.

 

the debt against the new stand and stadium was a structured one repaid over 15 years like a mortgage based on income and revenue, supposedly. Most financial experts at the time reckoned it was an extremely good bit of business, particularly as the club was going to increase its revenue on a permanent basis so long as they kept the capacity high.

 

Of course, they could have kept the 36000 stadium and not attempted to move forward.

[Guest alex]

Of course the "stature" or position of the club made the approach worth considering, post KK, but to say the same circumstance existed when he was finally appointed is rubbish. He was out of work.

I didn't. I'm not going to keep arguing about it tbh but I think you're being completely naive if you don't think the stature at that time was the main motivator in his coming to the club.

 

If he'd come post KK you'd have a point. I also accept if we were in the third division he wouldn't have come when he did. I suspect if he was in work, he wouldn't have come when he did either.

He did come post-KK

[LeazesMag 0]

Of course the "stature" or position of the club made the approach worth considering, post KK, but to say the same circumstance existed when he was finally appointed is rubbish. He was out of work.

I didn't. I'm not going to keep arguing about it tbh but I think you're being completely naive if you don't think the stature at that time was the main motivator in his coming to the club.

 

If he'd come post KK you'd have a point. I also accept if we were in the third division he wouldn't have come when he did. I suspect if he was in work, he wouldn't have come when he did either.

 

no top manager was interested in NUFC during the days of McKeag, Seymour etc. Thats why they didn't appoint any. When Jim Smith took the job in 1988 he was 8th choice. NUFC "reportedly" had him on a short list to succeed Joe Harvey. Obviously no link, but needless to say, he stayed with Ipswich.

 

Only KK actually, had the balls to take that job in 1992, Robson could have shown some interest then to save his "hometown club" when they most needed it. I think, like Alex, you are being extremely naive if you don't accept that he was only interested in "coming home" because the stature of the club had became that of a top club befitting his own status as undoubtedly a top manager, which of course he knew he was.

 

He knew it was a chance to finish his managerial career in a blaze of glory with his hometown club, I don't think fighting relegation battles and having to do the job with his hands tied behind his back [like Pardew is now also having to do] would have been much of an attraction at all, where his whole reputation built up over decades could easily have been tarnished forever.

[Qwertyo 0]

Of course, they could have kept the 36000 stadium and not attempted to move forward.

 

Even Shepherd wasn't mad enough not to redevelop the ground at that point. The money that was available from the Pools Levy eliminated the risk.

 

Unfortunately they chose to develop it in a way which limited the capacity (in commercially sensible terms) to 52,000. With a bit of foresight it could have been developed in a way that would have made 60,000+ a possibility.

[Toonpack 9925]

the debt against the new stand and stadium was a structured one repaid over 15 years like a mortgage based on income and revenue, supposedly. Most financial experts at the time reckoned it was an extremely good bit of business, particularly as the club was going to increase its revenue on a permanent basis so long as they kept the capacity high.

 

Of course, they could have kept the 36000 stadium and not attempted to move forward.

 

If all our debt was for the stadium and on a reducing balance basis, that'd be fine.

 

It wasn't sadly.

 

Reet agreement turned back on

[Toonpack 9925]

Of course the "stature" or position of the club made the approach worth considering, post KK, but to say the same circumstance existed when he was finally appointed is rubbish. He was out of work.

I didn't. I'm not going to keep arguing about it tbh but I think you're being completely naive if you don't think the stature at that time was the main motivator in his coming to the club.

 

If he'd come post KK you'd have a point. I also accept if we were in the third division he wouldn't have come when he did. I suspect if he was in work, he wouldn't have come when he did either.

He did come post-KK

 

Touche

[NJS 4411]

Robson turned the job down in 97 post Keegan - I know it goes against the grain to criticise the man but I always felt he deserved some for that - as others have said he was keen only when he had nothing else.

[LeazesMag 0]

Of course, they could have kept the 36000 stadium and not attempted to move forward.

 

Even Shepherd wasn't mad enough not to redevelop the ground at that point. The money that was available from the Pools Levy eliminated the risk.

 

Unfortunately they chose to develop it in a way which limited the capacity (in commercially sensible terms) to 52,000. With a bit of foresight it could have been developed in a way that would have made 60,000+ a possibility.

 

maybe, but if you sell your best players and compete at the levels of Bolton and Blackburn, you will never fill even a 52000 one.

 

BTW, it took 80 years for someone to finally come along and succeed in developing that old cowshed of a stadium

Edited May 6, 2011 by LeazesMag

[Holden McGroin 6783]

Robson turned the job down in 97 post Keegan - I know it goes against the grain to criticise the man but I always felt he deserved some for that - as others have said he was keen only when he had nothing else.

 

I dont see it like that at all. He had a contact with Barca and wanted to see it out. I believe he never broke a contract in his life. Thats honourable for me and clearly something the game lacks these days.

[Toonpack 9925]

I dont see it like that at all. He had a contact with Barca and wanted to see it out. I believe he never broke a contract in his life. Thats honourable for me and clearly something the game lacks these days.

 

I agree and what that also confirms is, that if SBR had been in work, he wouldn't have come when he did.

 

I also agree with LM's "end the career in ablaze of glory at the hometown club" sentiment, but only because the vacancy, and thus that opportunity, arose when he was otherwise unengaged.

[NJS 4411]

Robson turned the job down in 97 post Keegan - I know it goes against the grain to criticise the man but I always felt he deserved some for that - as others have said he was keen only when he had nothing else.

 

I dont see it like that at all. He had a contact with Barca and wanted to see it out. I believe he never broke a contract in his life. Thats honourable for me and clearly something the game lacks these days.

 

Possibly - my thought at the time was that Hall should have bribed Barcelona into sacking him which would have suited all parties as they'd already moved him upstairs by then.

[LeazesMag 0]

Robson turned the job down in 97 post Keegan - I know it goes against the grain to criticise the man but I always felt he deserved some for that - as others have said he was keen only when he had nothing else.

 

I dont see it like that at all. He had a contact with Barca and wanted to see it out. I believe he never broke a contract in his life. Thats honourable for me and clearly something the game lacks these days.

 

Possibly - my thought at the time was that Hall should have bribed Barcelona into sacking him which would have suited all parties as they'd already moved him upstairs by then.

 

why not. Anything goes.

[NJS 4411]

BTW, it took 80 years for someone to finally come along and succeed in developing that old cowshed of a stadium

 

Problem was that until the end of the 70s, the capacity was adequate so there was no reason to expand or even to redevelop apsrt from for prestige. By the time the work needed to be done, the credit was available to do so - something that would have been a problem in the past.

 

Of course the redevelopment of the east stand and planned Leazes was very small-minded but again those men had no wealth.

[Guest alex]

Iirc, Robson wasn't moved upstairs until after the end of the 1996-97 season, he was still manager of Barca when KK left NUFC. Wasn't that the year they won the Cup Winners' Cup (or was it the Uefa Cup?)?

Edited May 6, 2011 by alex

[NJS 4411]

Iirc, Robson wasn't moved upstairs until after the end of the 1996-97 season, he was still manager of Barca when KK left NUFC. Wasn't that the year they won the Cup Winners' Cup (or was it the Uefa Cup?)?

 

You might be right - but I think he was under pressure as he'd only won the spanish cup and Real were dominating- - I think Van Gall was lined up though.

[Guest alex]

Iirc, Robson wasn't moved upstairs until after the end of the 1996-97 season, he was still manager of Barca when KK left NUFC. Wasn't that the year they won the Cup Winners' Cup (or was it the Uefa Cup?)?

 

You might be right - but I think he was under pressure as he'd only won the spanish cup and Real were dominating- - I think Van Gall was lined up though.

I say that because I'm pretty sure he was manager when he turned us down because he was training with the players and tracksuited when he was asked about it at the time.