Should Freddie or Mike run the Toon?

[StevieRoss 0]

It's absurd to suggest football matches that gave you great pleasure (not the cup finals but getting there) and the games in Milan, Rotterdam etc., etc. were meaningless because we never won anything.

I've never suggested that.

Read properly what people write.

My point is that no matter what the club achieves is not impressive if it's based on getting the club into debt.

 

Plus, Bellamy, one of the most important players in Bobby's team was sold against his will, simply to please Shearer.

 

Freddie was a disaster.

 

I don't think that's really accurate Nick. Bellamy and Shearer fell out, yes, but by then Bellamy had become a loose cannon. He feigned injuries, threw a chair at Carver (reportedly) and in general had become unmanageable.

[Guest alex]

It's absurd to suggest football matches that gave you great pleasure (not the cup finals but getting there) and the games in Milan, Rotterdam etc., etc. were meaningless because we never won anything.

I've never suggested that.

Read properly what people write.

Obvious I wasn't responding to you I'd have thought. Take a deep breath before trying to be clever next time, eh?

[Irrelevant Nick KP 0]

Sorry, Alex.

Stevie Ross,

This article proves that Freddie kicked Bellamy out, simply to please Shearer.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/foo...ticle385989.ece

[Guest alex]

Bellamy had already burnt his bridges before then anyway. There was no way he was coming back. So it proves absolutely nothing beyond what a little wanker Bellamy was.

[StevieRoss 0]

It's absurd to suggest football matches that gave you great pleasure (not the cup finals but getting there) and the games in Milan, Rotterdam etc., etc. were meaningless because we never won anything. Surely 'in the scheme of things' they take on even greater significance because we never seem to win anything anyway.

 

Ultimately, teams are judged by what they win surely? And don't we all want to support a successful team? Being "entertaining" losers lost its novelty for me a long time ago. Yeah, sure we can have nice memories of great individual matches, but it's looking like I'll go to my grave having never seen Newcastle United actually "win" anything, and I can't say I'm satisfied with that...

I absolutely want us to win things but I disagree with the insinuation that there's little else to football.

 

I don't think I implied that there's "little else". My point is that without being the supporter of a winning team - even once - the experience of being a supporter has a hollowness about it that you can't deny. You can't tell me that all these people on this forum don't feel an ache that will never really be quelled until this team of ours actually wins someting?

I agree, Stevie. I don't want to put words in your mouth but I just took it to mean that those times meant very little to you when you said 'meaningless'. It's a shame and, imo. very unlucky on our part that we didn't win anything with Robson or Keegan at the helm but I thoroughly enjoyed those times and would swap them for now in a heartbeat. Winning something would be great but very few sides actually do manage it and I'm not sure something like a League Cup win in the current climate would come close to the periods I mentioned.

 

I didn't use the word "meaningless" actually, I quoted you, but that's splitting hairs. This is purely personal and subjective, but I'd take a League Cup win over all our noble defeats and runners-up finishes. If I could turn back time, I'd take beating Man City in that League Cup final in exchange for our participation in the Champions League and FA Cup final losses....there is nothing, NOTHING like actually winning..

[Irrelevant Nick KP 0]

I don't think I implied that there's "little else". My point is that without being the supporter of a winning team - even once - the experience of being a supporter has a hollowness about it that you can't deny. You can't tell me that all these people on this forum don't feel an ache that will never really be quelled until this team of ours actually wins someting?

I don't agree at all. It's all about achieving more than you thought you would achieve.

Man U and Chelsea fans are so bored with winning the league, they can only get pleasure when they surpass their rivals' number of league title wins.

[Guest alex]

It's absurd to suggest football matches that gave you great pleasure (not the cup finals but getting there) and the games in Milan, Rotterdam etc., etc. were meaningless because we never won anything. Surely 'in the scheme of things' they take on even greater significance because we never seem to win anything anyway.

 

Ultimately, teams are judged by what they win surely? And don't we all want to support a successful team? Being "entertaining" losers lost its novelty for me a long time ago. Yeah, sure we can have nice memories of great individual matches, but it's looking like I'll go to my grave having never seen Newcastle United actually "win" anything, and I can't say I'm satisfied with that...

I absolutely want us to win things but I disagree with the insinuation that there's little else to football.

 

I don't think I implied that there's "little else". My point is that without being the supporter of a winning team - even once - the experience of being a supporter has a hollowness about it that you can't deny. You can't tell me that all these people on this forum don't feel an ache that will never really be quelled until this team of ours actually wins someting?

I agree, Stevie. I don't want to put words in your mouth but I just took it to mean that those times meant very little to you when you said 'meaningless'. It's a shame and, imo. very unlucky on our part that we didn't win anything with Robson or Keegan at the helm but I thoroughly enjoyed those times and would swap them for now in a heartbeat. Winning something would be great but very few sides actually do manage it and I'm not sure something like a League Cup win in the current climate would come close to the periods I mentioned.

 

I didn't use the word "meaningless" actually, I quoted you, but that's splitting hairs. This is purely personal and subjective, but I'd take a League Cup win over all our noble defeats and runners-up finishes. If I could turn back time, I'd take beating Man City in that League Cup final in exchange for our participation in the Champions League and FA Cup final losses....there is nothing, NOTHING like actually winning..

Actually, you quoted JawD if you want to be really pedantic

I suppose you're right like, not having experienced a trophy win it's hard to know what it would be like, etc. I think I was more getting at the fact that those eras shouldn't have been dismissed. Admittedly you may not have been doing that. Anyway, within those eras we did the right things in regard to putting the club in a position where, with only a little bit of luck, we would have won something (on more than one occasion), so it that respect I'm defensive about what I perceive as harsh criticism of those times. I think we're probably not that far apart in our respective views though tbh.

[StevieRoss 0]

Sorry, Alex.

Stevie Ross,

This article proves that Freddie kicked Bellamy out, simply to please Shearer.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/foo...ticle385989.ece

 

But Nick, Bellamy had fallen out with the club's managers. Robson couldn't control him and Souness was hired, at least in part, to wield the stick. No doubt Shearer bad-mouthed him to Shepherd but it well known that Bellamy was on the outer with management by then anyway.

[StevieRoss 0]

I don't think I implied that there's "little else". My point is that without being the supporter of a winning team - even once - the experience of being a supporter has a hollowness about it that you can't deny. You can't tell me that all these people on this forum don't feel an ache that will never really be quelled until this team of ours actually wins someting?

I don't agree at all. It's all about achieving more than you thought you would achieve.

Man U and Chelsea fans are so bored with winning the league, they can only get pleasure when they surpass their rivals' number of league title wins.

 

Nick, this is a ridiculous post I have to say. Perhaps Man Utd and Chelsea fans have become bored with winning, but the implication that, therefore, Newcastle fans shouldn't be aspiring to win something - anything - is just nonsense.

[Irrelevant Nick KP 0]

Sorry, Alex.

Stevie Ross,

This article proves that Freddie kicked Bellamy out, simply to please Shearer.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/foo...ticle385989.ece

 

But Nick, Bellamy had fallen out with the club's managers. Robson couldn't control him and Souness was hired, at least in part, to wield the stick. No doubt Shearer bad-mouthed him to Shepherd but it well known that Bellamy was on the outer with management by then anyway.

Well, none of us was present, so we can't be sure what role Shearer played.

 

What nobody denies is that towards the end of Gullit's reign, Shearer strolled around on the pitch, not working at all, and then suddenly, when Bobby came, Shearer turned on the effort. Nobody who watched matches then, denies this.

 

This means that Shearer had MUCH too much influence on things, and, in my opinion, the club took a wrong turning, when they signed him. It cost them lots of money, he was only world-class for one season, and his big salary helped the club get into a big debt.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course we should try to win things, but not by getting some rich bafoon who needs popularity.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Nick-Kielce-Poland

[Guest alex]

A better example of Shearer having too much influence would be the board's decision to not sell him to Liverpool when Robson was in favour of letting him go. That probably undermined SBR more than anything that happened before or since because I think having the senior pros on side (Speed, Shearer, Given, etc.) helped keep the 'young guns' (i.e. arseholes) like Bramble, Jenas and Dyer in check. After that Robson's tenuous control over the dressing room was all but finished.

[Guest alex]

Sorry, Alex.

Stevie Ross,

This article proves that Freddie kicked Bellamy out, simply to please Shearer.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/foo...ticle385989.ece

 

But Nick, Bellamy had fallen out with the club's managers. Robson couldn't control him and Souness was hired, at least in part, to wield the stick. No doubt Shearer bad-mouthed him to Shepherd but it well known that Bellamy was on the outer with management by then anyway.

Well, none of us was present, so we can't be sure what role Shearer played.

 

What nobody denies is that towards the end of Gullit's reign, Shearer strolled around on the pitch, not working at all, and then suddenly, when Bobby came, Shearer turned on the effort. Nobody who watched matches then, denies this.

 

This means that Shearer had MUCH too much influence on things, and, in my opinion, the club took a wrong turning, when they signed him. It cost them lots of money, he was only world-class for one season, and his big salary helped the club get into a big debt.

Tbh Nick, Gullit started Paul Robinson (PAUL FUCKING ROBINSON) ahead of Shearer in a derby match so, again, using Gullit is probably a bad example. He had/has terrible man-management skills because he's an arrogant arsehole. Look at the way he treated Robert Lee for example. He had a blazing row with Hamann at HT during the cup final and precipitated his move to Liverpool too.

[Irrelevant Nick KP 0]

Shearer deserved to be dropped (sold, in fact) after the not even bloody trying on the pitch.

I notice Alex, you aren't denying what I said.

Any other player who behaved in that way would be crucified by the media.

[LeazesMag 0]

thinking of blocking Nick again for being an utter bellend

[Guest alex]

Shearer deserved to be dropped (sold, in fact) after the not even bloody trying on the pitch.

I notice Alex, you aren't denying what I said.

Any other player who behaved in that way would be crucified by the media.

That's your opinion, Nick.

Like I mentioned, I do question the excessive influence Shearer had at times but at other times he was a massively positive influence who scored goals galore for the club. I don't think he did deserve to be dropped, actually. Especially since his replacement was absolutely awful. I also tend to blame Gullit for not getting the best out of him because the whole team, rather than just Shearer, struggled to perform and was largely lacking motivation under Gullit. I think the insinuation that Shearer is given some sort of special treatment by the media is unrealistic too. Unless you mean the local press, but they hardly count when it comes to providing unbiased views.

[Kitman 2204]

For the record nick, I've disagreed with just about everything you've ever said on here.

[Irrelevant Nick KP 0]

Shearer deserved to be dropped (sold, in fact) after the not even bloody trying on the pitch.

I notice Alex, you aren't denying what I said.

Any other player who behaved in that way would be crucified by the media.

That's your opinion, Nick.

Like I mentioned, I do question the excessive influence Shearer had at times but at other times he was a massively positive influence who scored goals galore for the club. I don't think he did deserve to be dropped, actually. Especially since his replacement was absolutely awful. I also tend to blame Gullit for not getting the best out of him because the whole team, rather than just Shearer, struggled to perform and was largely lacking motivation under Gullit. I think the insinuation that Shearer is given some sort of special treatment by the media is unrealistic too. Unless you mean the local press, but they hardly count when it comes to providing unbiased views.

Oh well, you continue not to deny that Shearer just strolled around the pitch, and at the same time don't think he should have been dropped. Says it all.

[Guest alex]

Incidentally, with the Bellamy issue, Shearer was merely toe-ing the party line, i.e. going along with the Chairman/Manager. IMHO

[Guest alex]

Shearer deserved to be dropped (sold, in fact) after the not even bloody trying on the pitch.

I notice Alex, you aren't denying what I said.

Any other player who behaved in that way would be crucified by the media.

That's your opinion, Nick.

Like I mentioned, I do question the excessive influence Shearer had at times but at other times he was a massively positive influence who scored goals galore for the club. I don't think he did deserve to be dropped, actually. Especially since his replacement was absolutely awful. I also tend to blame Gullit for not getting the best out of him because the whole team, rather than just Shearer, struggled to perform and was largely lacking motivation under Gullit. I think the insinuation that Shearer is given some sort of special treatment by the media is unrealistic too. Unless you mean the local press, but they hardly count when it comes to providing unbiased views.

Oh well, you continue not to deny that Shearer just strolled around the pitch, and at the same time don't think he should have been dropped. Says it all.

On the contary I'd say your selective interpretation of what I posted says it all. I suspected I was wasting my time in trying to actual properly debate this with you. Thanks for saving me the effort in future though.

Edited July 28, 2011 by alex

[Irrelevant Nick KP 0]

Incidentally, with the Bellamy issue, Shearer was merely toe-ing the party line, i.e. going along with the Chairman/Manager. IMHO

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/foo...ticle385989.ece

“I can tell you there is no chance of that. Bellamy has taken on a hero in Alan and there is only one winner of that one. And it is not Bellamy.

Freddie Shepherd.

 

Alex continues not to deny that Shearer strolled around.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Nick-Kielce-Poland

[Guest alex]

Incidentally, with the Bellamy issue, Shearer was merely toe-ing the party line, i.e. going along with the Chairman/Manager. IMHO

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/foo...ticle385989.ece

“I can tell you there is no chance of that. Bellamy has taken on a hero in Alan and there is only one winner of that one. And it is not Bellamy.

Freddie Shepherd.

Shepherd in playing the Geordie Nation card shocker. Nice try though, Nick

[Guest alex]

Incidentally, with the Bellamy issue, Shearer was merely toe-ing the party line, i.e. going along with the Chairman/Manager. IMHO

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/foo...ticle385989.ece

“I can tell you there is no chance of that. Bellamy has taken on a hero in Alan and there is only one winner of that one. And it is not Bellamy.

Freddie Shepherd.

 

Alex continues not to deny that Shearer strolled around.

Gullit didn't drop Shearer if you want to be pedantic.

[Irrelevant Nick KP 0]

Alex is going doo-lally.

First he babbles about the Geordie nation, when all Freddie said was that when Shearer said jump, Freddie said how high.

 

Then he says that Gullit didn't drop Shearer.

 

What kind of fruitcake is this Alex?

[Guest alex]

Shearer was sent off against Villa and suspended for one match, therefore Gullit failed to reinstate Shearer in the side for the derby match, rather than dropping him. If you want to play word games.

[peasepud 59]

What kind of fruitcake is this Alex?

oh the irony