Hatem "Number 26" Ben Arfa

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894]

Football is a game about players that get you off your feet because they're exciting on the ball and create. Ben Arfa for all his flaws is one of those. They don't grow on trees. Keegan and Sir Bobby both managed similar players effectively. Pardew has failed.

Fyp

[Gemmill 44896]

Football is a game about players that get you off your feet because they're exciting on the ball and create. Ben Arfa for all his flaws is one of those. They don't grow on trees. Keegan and Sir Bobby both managed similar players effectively. Pardew has failed to do similar with Ben Arfa

Pardew isn't the only one to have failed with Ben Arfa. Maybe it's not the managers that are failing.

[PaddockLad 17280]

It's not ''magic'' though is it? Or anything even out of the blue or unexpected. Give the lad a chance in his best position and he'll deliver. Simple as - but I suppose there's been plenty of times he put chances on a plate for Cisse only for him to muck it up. He's a dangerous player - yet Pardew would rather scapegoat him and start DAN GOSLING - this happened - it was a thing. Pardew wants strung up by the bollocks just for that. We couldn't buy a goal without Remy or Cabaye and Pardew was too much of a coward to use Hatem.

 

Shout at him for not tracking back and give him 10 minutes when we're 2-0 against a superior team and he probably wont.

 

Put it this way - some people on here deserve utterly shit, middle of the road dross. If you think any support of Hatem is disproportionate it reads just as stupid on the other side of the coin.

 

Fuck me Tom it's a good job you weren't around when we sold Waddle, Pedro and Gazza one after the other...you'd have been. on suicide watch

[ewerk 30617]

I don't recall Ginola or Robert doing a lot of work off the ball either. We loved them for what they did on the ball.

 

Play Ben Arfa off the striker with two holding players behind him and his off the ball workrate is less of a concern.

 

I'm more concerned about our team of 'grafters' will be able to do on the ball next season.

 

Answer me this, why can't he do both?

[Dr Gloom 21924]

 

Answer me this, why can't he do both?

 

yes he could work harder - but he's an erratic french genius, just like robert and ginola, with magic in his boots. he's never going to be as good defensively as he is going forward so free him of the responsibility. put him in a position where he can do what he's good at. you don't need your number ten so concerned with tracking back. let him get on the ball and make the play.

 

he's the only player on our books right now that genuinely excites going forward. and we're about to get rid of him and replace him some hard working grafter. mint. nothing gets fans as excited as players that work their socks off tracking back.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Dr Gloom

[ewerk 30617]

Can we as a team afford to play with only ten men when we don't have the ball? How much flexibility should the club give him? Evidently he puts in fuck all effort in training going off his physical condition, should the management adopt the attitude of 'that's just Hatem?' The team clearly don't think that he deserves a place in the starting lineup, should we all just say 'fuck them, who cares if they're unhappy? What would they know?'

 

Yes he has moments of brilliance but they're few and far between. He rarely (if ever) runs a game or controls it for us. He's simply a luxury we can't afford. No one wants a team full of Lee Cattermoles prepared to put in a good shift but offering nothing else. It is possible to have a balance and the frustrating thing is that Ben Arfa has the talent but lacks the simple element of effort.

[Happy Face 29]

No-one is saying he needs to be particularly good defensively, but if he loses the ball he should fight to win it back. If he's the man closest to an opponent with the ball he should pressure him and close down the angles. If an opponent close by him makes a run then he should make the slightest effort to be somewhere between him and the player in possession, so he's well placed to intercept any pass attempted.

 

Pardew and Ben Arfa both have their flaws, I'm far more forgiving of Ben Arfa's flaws than I am Pardew's. But Ben Arfa should never get a pass on doing any work other than when we're attacking within 30 yards of the goal.

 

If we were a great team that spent long periods swarming over the opposition he'd be less of a liability. As we spend vast swathes of games camped out at the back he's often a wasted selection.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

how much running do you expect number 9s and 10s to do? for me, not that much. i want him to press more than he does off the ball but i'd accept he will put in less effort in that department than those behind him if it means he he can focus more on what he's good at.

 

some of this is down to ben arfa himself. i blame pardew in the main though for not getting the most out of our most sillfull and creative player.

[Andrew 4757]

I'd rather still have cabaye tbh

[Happy Face 29]

Tbh were slating his defensive work and him going forward and not producing, fact is most times he's featured it's been from the bench when it's too late and he'd brought on to try pull off a miracle goal like he did against Blackburn or Bolton

 

He's hardly got a consistent run of games

 

That's true, but the worst example of his selfish play came against Everton in the 6th game of last season and he had started every game up to then.

 

He was dropped after that and Pardew's never trusted him on a run like that since.

[Tom 14011]

When Pardew played him out of position against one of the best full backs in the league?

[ewerk 30617]

When Pardew played him out of position against one of the best full backs in the league?

 

So that's an excuse for spending 45 minutes not giving a shit? Working a bit harder than normal wouldn't be the rational response?

[Kid Dynamite 7030]

Bit of a myth that HBA never tracks back btw. The bigger issue is he loses the ball trying to beat 3 men when he could lay it off

[Tom 14011]

 

So that's an excuse for spending 45 minutes not giving a shit? Working a bit harder than normal wouldn't be the rational response?

 

You're attempting to write an argument then contradict it. Can I type my parts?

[ewerk 30617]

Well someone needs to come up with an argument. Claiming that he the fact he was up against Baines as an excuse for his perfomance certainly isn't an argument.

[Tom 14011]

Coleman - who up against a winger effectively defanged - happened to have the best game of his season. There's literally no point in starting Hatem on the left, it added insult to injury that Gouffran was on the other side also doing fuck all.

 

It's bad management - there's no two ways about it man.

[Happy Face 29]

Pardew's thinking ahead of the game was probably that Baines was more dangerous and he doesn't trust Mbiwa as the right sided CB. In his mind Gouffran would do more to limit Mbiwa's exposure. Of course, the better approach might have been to have Baines pinned back and worried about what Ben Arfa could do to him, rather than inviting him to attack. Or have a try switching it before dragging Ben Arfa off. That would have been to admit he got it wrong though, and pride wouldn't allow it.

 

Pardew hamstrings his own players left right and centre. Almost like a test of their attitude to see if they'll put a stint in and commit 100% wherever they play for the team. Some do, some don't. I have more time for those that do, while wholly agreeing that Pardew is a fucking goon.

[The Fish 10857]

The way I see it Ben Arfa needs a manger that encourages his creativity and gives him a little more grace than others, one who plays him in a system that gets the most out of him. What he has is a manager who wants a Jonas; a hard working, predictable, winger.

 

Ben Arfa would, imo, work harder if he wasn't being asked to do a job that is so far from what he's good at it's alien to him. He's not a immutable lump of iron, he's quicksilver. He'd come alive in an Manchester City side, or even a Spurs side. A team that is going to be looking to create opportunities as often as possible, rather than say Arsenal who're a team dependent on possession, nor a team like ourselves, who are reliant on being clinical with little possession.

 

It's no coincidence that his best moments came when we had Ba, Cisse, Cabaye et al. Players who were mobile, who had vision and above all had the quality to benefit from Ben Arfa's abilities.

 

I'm not saying he's blameless, but to lose a player of such undoubted skill because Pardew wants him to track back and harass like Jonas does, is fucking weird. It's bizarre that the same men calling for Pardew to go because of his unadventurous tactics are wanting the only creative player we own to go.

 

Should we allow him to avoid all team-work? Absolutely not. We should should play him in a role he's suited to. We wouldn't play Tiote as a Remy, why are we looking to play Ben Arfa as a Jonas?

 

 

Edit: I'm not saying Ben Arfa could play for those sides, just sides that employ those tactics

Edited June 18, 2014 by The Fish

[Happy Face 29]

I'd far prefer Pardew went than Ben Arfa

 

I thought Rooney deserved the reaction he got to his performance on the left last week though, and I think Ben Arfa should be called out on spitting his dummy just as equally, even if he's played out of position.

 

At least Rooney has been contrite and (they say) putting in extra training, redoubled his effort. Ben Arfa would NEVER take the view that hard work will see him achieve his goals.

[Guest JakPwhatculture]

@@The Fish Totally agree that it's counter-productive to force Ben Arfa into an area of the field where his skill-set doesn't suit and his impact is diminished. Pardew struggles to grasp that he's a player who thrives upon a singular focus.

 

As you say he just needs a manager/team/both to give him a little more freedom to do what comes natural to him.

[Tom 14011]

I wouldn't say he didn't try as much as Coleman had an easy job. Ben Arfa is fast with the ball when he can do something with it - like most inverted wingers that means dropping the shoulder/cutting in whatever. Pardew wanted him to run down the wing and ping balls into the box aimlessly. He could have tortured Baines but he was short work for Coleman.

 

Imagine if he was played in position and he had Gouffran on the left supporting Santon who also had a poor game. That would make sense - people forget that the entire team was absolutely hopeless - worst of all the centre back pairing.

[The Fish 10857]

Guarantee if we signed Alexis Sanchez, people would still be moaning that he didn't tackle back.

[Happy Face 29]

Guarantee if we signed Alexis Sanchez, people would still be moaning that he didn't tackle back.

 

Probably not as much though, since he tackles over 4 times as much as Ben Arfa....

 

Ramsey 3.3

McCarthy 3.3

Gerrard 2.9

Cabaye 2.4

Sanchez 1.7

Sterling 1.3

Rooney 1.0

Ozil 0.9

Ronaldo 0.6

Messi 0.5

Ben Arfa 0.4

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/25244

 

[The Fish 10857]

 

I'm sure playing in a far, far better side has nothing to do with that, mind. Fair enough though, he was a poor example.

 

Also, my point stands, the people who're slating Ben Arfa would still be slating him if we were top of the league.

Edited June 18, 2014 by The Fish

[Happy Face 29]

 

I'm sure playing in a far, far better side has nothing to do with that, mind. Fair enough though, he was a poor example.

 

Also, my point stands, the people who're slating Ben Arfa would still be slating him if we were top of the league.

 

Probably.

 

For the same reason no club challenging at the top (or anywhere else) has shown solid interest. His ability is good enough for any club in the world, but his attitude isn't good enough for any club, top middle or bottom. Guardiola built Barcelona on the principle of All players pressing the opposition to win back possession as quickly as possible wherever it's lost on the fireld and resting in shared possession once they have it back. Ben Arfa wouldn't fit that ethos in any way, he wouldn't fight for the ball in the first place and he would lose it too much when he had it.