PaddockLad 17246 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) Philippe Auclair reckons Ben Arfa will head to Italy in Jan, compared him to Taarabt and Menez who the moves out there have worked fairly well for. Who also both moved to Milan (saying it so Ant doesn't ) Milan who are 15 points behind the league leaders before Christmas? Hazard was publicly criticized by Mourinho when Chelsea were knocked out the champions league last season for not tracking back iirc. Seems to have done the trick but would he take a chance on someone with Hatems reputation?...I have my doubts... Edited December 19, 2014 by PaddockLad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4748 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Milan who are 15 points behind the league leaders before Christmas? Yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30598 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Sorry, wasn't Hazard fairly well known for his enfant terrible attitude? JM seems to get players who didn't work hard, suddenly grafting. Probably because the results are very obvious. Yeah, my point was that Hazard has taken it on board and improved his game because of it. Ben Arfa has been told the same thing by two managers in quick succession and fucked them both off. Maybe the problem is with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4748 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Yeah, my point was that Hazard has taken it on board and improved his game because of it. Ben Arfa has been told the same thing by two managers in quick succession and fucked them both off. Maybe the problem is with him. Whats the benefit of listening to Pardew or Bruce though? I wouldn't. Two fairly mediocre managers with no reputation for improving players or teams, Mourinho has worked with and helped mould some of the best players in the world in his time and above all, wins things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10856 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Yeah, my point was that Hazard has taken it on board and improved his game because of it. Ben Arfa has been told the same thing by two managers in quick succession and fucked them both off. Maybe the problem is with him. Isn't there two issues here though? Ben Arfa's attitude and the manager's ability to turn it round. My point is that it would take someone of Mourinho's calibre to get the best from Ben Arfa. Pardew is clearly not a very good motivator of flair players, Jose clearly is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatty 24 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Definitely, there's blame attached to both Hatem and Pardew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30598 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Whats the benefit of listening to Pardew or Bruce though? I wouldn't. Two fairly mediocre managers with no reputation for improving players or teams, Mourinho has worked with and helped mould some of the best players in the world in his time and above all, wins things. They're his boss though. If it's obvious that you aren't working hard enough and two managers are telling you that you're not working hard enough then maybe the problem isn't with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30598 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Isn't there two issues here though? Ben Arfa's attitude and the manager's ability to turn it round. My point is that it would take someone of Mourinho's calibre to get the best from Ben Arfa. Pardew is clearly not a very good motivator of flair players, Jose clearly is. I'm certainly not saying that Pardew is a world class man motivator but if you look at how the dressing room stood by him through the recent shit spells we have had then he's clearly got a good relationship with them. Ben Arfa seems to be the odd one out. He's clearly talented but there is no one can deny that he's a lazy fucker who isn't willing to listen to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10856 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I'm certainly not saying that Pardew is a world class man motivator but if you look at how the dressing room stood by him through the recent shit spells we have had then he's clearly got a good relationship with them. Ben Arfa seems to be the odd one out. He's clearly talented but there is no one can deny that he's a lazy fucker who isn't willing to listen to anyone. It's not just Ben Arfa though, is it? It's the flair players that fall foul of Pardew's incompetence. I don't doubt that Colo and the rest of the defensive players enjoy working under Pardew, given he's spending the majority of the time coaching defence and he puts an emphasis on graft & grit. Yet, look at the players that stagnate or regress under him, anyone with a bit of creativity is quickly either turned into a workmanlike player (Gouffran, Anita, etc.) or tuned aside (Ben Arfa, Cabella, Marveaux, Amalfitano). I don't think they should be given a free-ride mind, I just think Pardew hasn't the ability to encourage or improve players who's game is completely alien to him. He wants hard-working limited players that step to his beat and woe-betide anyone who thinks that rather than launching the ball to the back stick, we should maybe try a short corner routine instead? Also, he's a cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatty 24 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 HBA (48 starts)1 goal per 3.5 PL starts1 assist per 4 PL startsGouffran (56 starts)1 goal per 6 PL starts1 assist per PL 14 startsObertan (26 starts)1 goal per 13 PL starts1 assist per 4 PL startsR. Taylor (31 starts)1 goal per 10 PL starts1 assist per 6 PL startsSissoko (61 starts)1 goal per 8 PL starts1 assist per 7 PL startsJuan Mata (96 starts)1 goal per 3.5 PL starts1 assist per 3 PL starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44851 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 They're his boss though. If it's obvious that you aren't working hard enough and two managers are telling you that you're not working hard enough then maybe the problem isn't with them. Precisely. You don't get to decide that you'll only respond to the calibre of manager that works at a club that, on current evidence, you aren't good enough to play for. Because if that's your attitude, you'll never improve and never end up playing for that calibre of manager. Besides, most managers aren't looking for a difficult project that may or may not pay off. And in refusing to respond to either Pardew or Bruce, Ben Arfa is sending the message that, AT BEST, that's what he is. Who the fuck wants to work with that?! People are fucking idiotic when it comes to this lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKANDWHITEGEORDIE 0 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 While we have a manager who prefers carthorses (aka Gouffran, Riviere, Dummett, Willo) the likes of players like Hatem never stood a chance. He needs a manager like Wenger to get the best out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44851 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Somebody should just build an entire club around him from scratch. Right type of fans, right type of stadium, right type of manager, right type of teammates. It's no less than he deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Somebody should just build an entire club around him from scratch. Right type of fans, right type of stadium, right type of manager, right type of teammates. It's no less than he deserves. Aye, some of us would look half decent in some of these set ups he needs ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Yeah, my point was that Hazard has taken it on board and improved his game because of it. Ben Arfa has been told the same thing by two managers in quick succession and fucked them both off. Maybe the problem is with him. Mata is a better comparison. Hazard is much more athletic than Hatem or Mata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Milan who are 15 points behind the league leaders before Christmas? Hazard was publicly criticized by Mourinho when Chelsea were knocked out the champions league last season for not tracking back iirc. Seems to have done the trick but would he take a chance on someone with Hatems reputation?...I have my doubts... Mou is a very defensive coach these days. 9 behind the ball when they played Man C. It might win things but most of the time it ain't pretty nor is the antics of his players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 They're his boss though. If it's obvious that you aren't working hard enough and two managers are telling you that you're not working hard enough then maybe the problem isn't with them. All this 'hard work' has really seen England fly high in international competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 HBA (48 starts) 1 goal per 3.5 PL starts 1 assist per 4 PL starts Gouffran (56 starts) 1 goal per 6 PL starts 1 assist per PL 14 starts Obertan (26 starts) 1 goal per 13 PL starts 1 assist per 4 PL starts R. Taylor (31 starts) 1 goal per 10 PL starts 1 assist per 6 PL starts Sissoko (61 starts) 1 goal per 8 PL starts 1 assist per 7 PL starts Juan Mata (96 starts) 1 goal per 3.5 PL starts 1 assist per 3 PL starts. Gouffran's "grafting" is apparently worth more to the side. How depressing that that's the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) Precisely. You don't get to decide that you'll only respond to the calibre of manager that works at a club that, on current evidence, you aren't good enough to play for. Because if that's your attitude, you'll never improve and never end up playing for that calibre of manager. Besides, most managers aren't looking for a difficult project that may or may not pay off. And in refusing to respond to either Pardew or Bruce, Ben Arfa is sending the message that, AT BEST, that's what he is. Who the fuck wants to work with that?! People are fucking idiotic when it comes to this lad. I doubt Bruce and Pardew would get a job in any other European country. Hatem has told them both to 'go fuck themselves' and rightly so. Edited December 19, 2014 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44851 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I doubt Bruce and Pardew would get a job in any other European country. Hatem has told them both to 'go fuck themselves' and rightly so. Aye it's done wonders for him. Wandering along the banks of the Seine, double fisting Christmas Market Bratwursts and tripping over his bottom lip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 All this 'hard work' has really seen England fly high in international competition. Works well for Mourinho though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35077 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Works well for Mourinho though. And Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Aye it's done wonders for him. Wandering along the banks of the Seine, double fisting Christmas Market Bratwursts and tripping over his bottom lip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Works well for Mourinho though. Think it's the quality of the squad worth 250m non? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 And Germany. It;s more the system that is ingrained through all levels of the German setup plus the huge leap in technique in the new generation of German players. This 'hard work' stuff is just bollock we're fed in Eng. Withough skill and tactical overview 'hard work' get you nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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