muthaf***in toon lover 0 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 'Reformed' US gang leader is executed Stanley "Tookie" Williams, the co-founder of the notorious Crips street gang, was executed this morning after Arnold Schwarzenegger, the California Governor, and the Supreme Court yesterday refused to grant the prisoner clemency. During his 24 years in prison, Williams wrote children’s books with anti-violence messages, was nominated five times for the Nobel Peace Prize and had been the subject of a television film, Redemption, which starred Jamie Foxx. The 51-year-old died by lethal injection at 12.35am local time (8.35GMT) at San Quentin prison in front of about 50 witnesses, including relatives of the four people he killed in the summer of 1979. He asked his own family not to attend. Williams was convicted in 1981 for the murders of Albert Owens, a 7-Eleven convenience store clerk, and Yen-I Yang, Tsai-Shai Chen Yang, and the couple’s daughter Yu-Chin Yang Lin, at the Los Angeles motel they owned. He has always denied the crimes. Witnesses at the trial said Williams boasted about the killings, stating: “You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him.” Williams then made a growling noise and laughed for five to six minutes, according to the transcript referred to by Schwarzenegger in his denial of clemency. Williams was the 12th person executed in California since the death penalty was reinstated in 1977. In the hours leading up to his execution, as Williams exhausted his legal options, around 1,000 protesters gathered outside the prison to plead for his life and protest against the death penalty. Some carried candles, others signs reading“Save Tookie” and “Love is the answer”. Joan Baez, the country singer, was one of the protesters who made the pilgrimage up the narrow road leading to the institution on the shores of the Pacific Ocean, 30 miles south of San Francisco. As night fell she sang "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" on a make-shift platform. In downtown Los Angeles, where city leaders feared that the death of Williams could provoke the kind of unrest that followed the 1992 acquittal of police officers involved in the beating of Rodney King, the streets remained quiet. Earlier, Raymond "The Hatchet Man" Locket, a member of the Westside Harlem Crips and a former associate of Williams, told LA Weekly: "Took die, the city fry. That’s the word on the streets." Prison officials said that Williams refused his last meal at 6pm and the chance to meet a spiritual adviser. Instead, the former gang leader spent his last moments drinking milk in a holding cell and reading letters sent to him from supporters. A handful of friends were admitted to see him for the last time. "He’s complacent, quiet and thoughtful," said Terry Thornton, a Corrections Department spokeswoman. In the minutes before midnight, Williams was strapped to a trolley and hooked up intravenously to two bags of saline solution. Execution procedure is to inject the prisoner first with a sedative, followed by potassium chloride, to paralyse him, then pancuronium bromide to induce a heart attack. Williams's appeal for clemency was based on his apparent rehabilitation rather than remorse. Yesterday afternoon, Mr Schwarzenegger denied him a stay of execution. "Is Williams’s redemption complete and sincere, or is it just a hollow promise?" he said. "Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings, there can be no redemption. After studying the evidence, I could find no justification for granting clemency." Just before the governor announced his decision, the 9th US Circuit of Appeals denied Williams’s request for a reprieve, saying among other things that there was no "clear and convincing evidence of actual innocence". Two further appeals, one to the Supreme Court and a final, last plea to Mr Schwarzenegger, were also denied. Although there was widespread sympathy for Williams, a handful of pro-death penalty campaigners joined the crowd at San Quentin, including Lora Owens, the stepmother of Albert Owens, the 26-year-old cashier murdered by Williams. "I will be there in the name of Albert and his father, watching the execution," said Mrs Owens as she entered the prison. Shwarzenegger looks to be losing the support of celebrities on this one and potentially risking the wrath of LA gangland culture. Executing a bloke nominated for 5 nobel peace prizes will piss off the liberals too. Any views? As an aside, the bit in bold, did anyone else think people only spoke like that in The Warriors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Apparently when they held rallies in California for him to be saved there was little or no support. The good he's done doesn't really make up for the people he's killed in the past in my opinion. That said, I don't really agree with the death penalty and I was quite surprised they had it in California. One thing I will say is that I find it disgusting that a person should be on death row for 24 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth Operator 10 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The murderous bastard never admitted his guilt or show any remorse for those he killed, Arnie got it spot on here, no doubt a few boyz from the hood will use this as an excuse to go-a-raping-and-a-looting. Took die, the city fry - Class! For shizzle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The murderous bastard never admitted his guilt or show any remorse for those he killed, Arnie got it spot on here, no doubt a few boyz from the hood will use this as an excuse to go-a-raping-and-a-looting. Took die, the city fry - Class! For shizzle! 67340[/snapback] Christ, I'm just not 'with it' these days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth Operator 10 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The murderous bastard never admitted his guilt or show any remorse for those he killed, Arnie got it spot on here, no doubt a few boyz from the hood will use this as an excuse to go-a-raping-and-a-looting. Took die, the city fry - Class! For shizzle! 67340[/snapback] Christ, I'm just not 'with it' these days! 67348[/snapback] Boyz In the Hood was made about 10-15 years ago man, were you not "with it" then either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke 2 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I don't agree with the death penalty, especially for those who show signs of reform. I think Arnie's got this wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 172 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 All they have done in executing him is create a martyr, you have to ask, what good has come from this execution ? not a lot in my opinion, you could argue that in offering clemency in this case could have done far more good then executing him. It would have given a far more positive message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 To be fair, I don't think Arnie could win either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43853 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Tookie was my homie. That would make a good bumper sticker actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9652 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 (edited) The murderous bastard never admitted his guilt or show any remorse for those he killed, Arnie got it spot on here, no doubt a few boyz from the hood will use this as an excuse to go-a-raping-and-a-looting. 67340[/snapback] Hmm, what's if he was not guilty? Edited December 13, 2005 by Isegrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The murderous bastard never admitted his guilt or show any remorse for those he killed, Arnie got it spot on here, no doubt a few boyz from the hood will use this as an excuse to go-a-raping-and-a-looting. 67340[/snapback] Hmm, what's if he was not guilty? 67395[/snapback] I don't think there was any real doubt over his guilt, the whole appeal process was built around the good work he has done since his conviction rather than being any attempt to prove his innocence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Tookie was my homie. That would make a good bumper sticker actually. 67393[/snapback] Depends where you live I reckon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9652 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The murderous bastard never admitted his guilt or show any remorse for those he killed, Arnie got it spot on here, no doubt a few boyz from the hood will use this as an excuse to go-a-raping-and-a-looting. 67340[/snapback] Hmm, what's if he was not guilty? 67395[/snapback] I don't think there was any real doubt over his guilt, the whole appeal process was built around the good work he has done since his conviction rather than being any attempt to prove his innocence. 67396[/snapback] The case wasn't cast iron, there were always minor doubts about the evidence. Williams admitted nearly everything except the murder for the whole 25 years. It wasn't about setting him free, just about downgrading the death penalty to a life sentence. I think with the remorse the man showed and his indisputable positive influence on American gang culture this might have been a good case to make use of the power of pardon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 172 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The thing I can't take is that the State of California stated that a pardon cannot be given unless the crime was admitted to and remorse shown, yet the bloke still maintained his innocence and then execute him ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The thing I can't take is that the State of California stated that a pardon cannot be given unless the crime was admitted to and remorse shown, yet the bloke still maintained his innocence and then execute him ! 67409[/snapback] Eh? Do you think all he had to do was say 'I did it and I'm sorry' and they would have let him off? I think there's a bit more to it than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth Operator 10 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 All they have done in executing him is create a martyr, you have to ask, what good has come from this execution ? not a lot in my opinion, you could argue that in offering clemency in this case could have done far more good then executing him. It would have given a far more positive message. 67386[/snapback] I bet the family of those murdered are feeling a bit better about the whole thing now he's dead! If it was me I wouldn't be interested in the bigger picture and the influence he could have had over gang culture - i'd be more concerned with the fact it took them 26 years to kill the murdering arsehole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 172 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The thing I can't take is that the State of California stated that a pardon cannot be given unless the crime was admitted to and remorse shown, yet the bloke still maintained his innocence and then execute him ! 67409[/snapback] Eh? Do you think all he had to do was say 'I did it and I'm sorry' and they would have let him off? I think there's a bit more to it than that 67411[/snapback] Don't shoot the messenger ! Mr Schwarzenegger turned down a clemency appeal on the grounds that Williams had shown no remorse for his killings. The former action star said: "Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings there can be no redemption." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muthaf***in toon lover 0 Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 The murderous bastard never admitted his guilt or show any remorse for those he killed, Arnie got it spot on here, no doubt a few boyz from the hood will use this as an excuse to go-a-raping-and-a-looting. 67340[/snapback] Hmm, what's if he was not guilty? 67395[/snapback] I don't think there was any real doubt over his guilt, the whole appeal process was built around the good work he has done since his conviction rather than being any attempt to prove his innocence. 67396[/snapback] The case wasn't cast iron, there were always minor doubts about the evidence. Williams admitted nearly everything except the murder for the whole 25 years. It wasn't about setting him free, just about downgrading the death penalty to a life sentence. I think with the remorse the man showed and his indisputable positive influence on American gang culture this might have been a good case to make use of the power of pardon. 67402[/snapback] By positive influence on gang culture do you mean he helped to start it? since his incarceration he has done many things that have been positive, but these are far outweighed by the negative influence he has had directly (by killing people) and indirectly. How many mothers who have had their sons killed as a result of the gangland culture in LA would say "Well he's written some nice kids books since the government said they were gonna kill him. We should change the rules for him." It's not even really an argument for or against the death penalty, California has chosen to continue killing people for violent murders. The inhumane part is that it has taken 25yrs, the benefits of a democratic appeals process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The thing I can't take is that the State of California stated that a pardon cannot be given unless the crime was admitted to and remorse shown, yet the bloke still maintained his innocence and then execute him ! 67409[/snapback] Eh? Do you think all he had to do was say 'I did it and I'm sorry' and they would have let him off? I think there's a bit more to it than that 67411[/snapback] Don't shoot the messenger ! Mr Schwarzenegger turned down a clemency appeal on the grounds that Williams had shown no remorse for his killings. The former action star said: "Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings there can be no redemption." 67424[/snapback] Consider yourself pardoned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 172 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The thing I can't take is that the State of California stated that a pardon cannot be given unless the crime was admitted to and remorse shown, yet the bloke still maintained his innocence and then execute him ! 67409[/snapback] Eh? Do you think all he had to do was say 'I did it and I'm sorry' and they would have let him off? I think there's a bit more to it than that 67411[/snapback] Don't shoot the messenger ! Mr Schwarzenegger turned down a clemency appeal on the grounds that Williams had shown no remorse for his killings. The former action star said: "Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings there can be no redemption." 67424[/snapback] Consider yourself pardoned 67426[/snapback] Thank you, you are a wonderful human being Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9652 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The murderous bastard never admitted his guilt or show any remorse for those he killed, Arnie got it spot on here, no doubt a few boyz from the hood will use this as an excuse to go-a-raping-and-a-looting. 67340[/snapback] Hmm, what's if he was not guilty? 67395[/snapback] I don't think there was any real doubt over his guilt, the whole appeal process was built around the good work he has done since his conviction rather than being any attempt to prove his innocence. 67396[/snapback] The case wasn't cast iron, there were always minor doubts about the evidence. Williams admitted nearly everything except the murder for the whole 25 years. It wasn't about setting him free, just about downgrading the death penalty to a life sentence. I think with the remorse the man showed and his indisputable positive influence on American gang culture this might have been a good case to make use of the power of pardon. 67402[/snapback] By positive influence on gang culture do you mean he helped to start it? since his incarceration he has done many things that have been positive, but these are far outweighed by the negative influence he has had directly (by killing people) and indirectly. How many mothers who have had their sons killed as a result of the gangland culture in LA would say "Well he's written some nice kids books since the government said they were gonna kill him. We should change the rules for him." It's not even really an argument for or against the death penalty, California has chosen to continue killing people for violent murders. The inhumane part is that it has taken 25yrs, the benefits of a democratic appeals process. 67425[/snapback] 25 years, in which the criminal admitted all crimes except the murder he got the death sentence for. The paradox is as Jimbo has pointed out that if he had admitted a crime he maybe didn't commit then he would have had a better chances getting a pardon. 25 years in which it has been tried to set up a re-trial on the base of new evidence. I'm strongly opposed to the death penalty, because the idea of revenge is archaic. And it doesn't really give consolation to the victim's relatives. There is no doubt that Williams was a criminal, who deserved his stay in prison. The only question is, was he a murder and should be killed for it. Ff the death penalt is enforced then IMHO only in those cases where there is absolutely no doubt. To take the life of somebody to please the relatives of victims you have to be dead sure you get the right one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muthaf***in toon lover 0 Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 The murderous bastard never admitted his guilt or show any remorse for those he killed, Arnie got it spot on here, no doubt a few boyz from the hood will use this as an excuse to go-a-raping-and-a-looting. 67340[/snapback] Hmm, what's if he was not guilty? 67395[/snapback] I don't think there was any real doubt over his guilt, the whole appeal process was built around the good work he has done since his conviction rather than being any attempt to prove his innocence. 67396[/snapback] The case wasn't cast iron, there were always minor doubts about the evidence. Williams admitted nearly everything except the murder for the whole 25 years. It wasn't about setting him free, just about downgrading the death penalty to a life sentence. I think with the remorse the man showed and his indisputable positive influence on American gang culture this might have been a good case to make use of the power of pardon. 67402[/snapback] By positive influence on gang culture do you mean he helped to start it? since his incarceration he has done many things that have been positive, but these are far outweighed by the negative influence he has had directly (by killing people) and indirectly. How many mothers who have had their sons killed as a result of the gangland culture in LA would say "Well he's written some nice kids books since the government said they were gonna kill him. We should change the rules for him." It's not even really an argument for or against the death penalty, California has chosen to continue killing people for violent murders. The inhumane part is that it has taken 25yrs, the benefits of a democratic appeals process. 67425[/snapback] 25 years, in which the criminal admitted all crimes except the murder he got the death sentence for. The paradox is as Jimbo has pointed out that if he had admitted a crime he maybe didn't commit then he would have had a better chances getting a pardon. 25 years in which it has been tried to set up a re-trial on the base of new evidence. I'm strongly opposed to the death penalty, because the idea of revenge is archaic. And it doesn't really give consolation to the victim's relatives. There is no doubt that Williams was a criminal, who deserved his stay in prison. The only question is, was he a murder and should be killed for it. Ff the death penalt is enforced then IMHO only in those cases where there is absolutely no doubt. To take the life of somebody to please the relatives of victims you have to be dead sure you get the right one. 67431[/snapback] Whilst he admitted crimes, he also refused to turn in other gang members and known criminals and he maintained communication with his old networks once released from solitary. As a founder of an organisation that has led to the deaths of thousands of people in the last 30yrs he has to bear the burden of responsibility. I personally do not believe in the reintroduction of the death penalty, however I do believe that if you commit crimes that carry that sentence where it exists you have only yourself to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footsoldier 0 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 There is no doubt in anybody's mind that he commited the murders. He bragged and laughed about them. And as usual the bleeding hearts are out on the streets along with that idiot jesse jackson...any bit of limelight and there he is. As for saying it doesn't give consolation to the victim's relatives I would say you are absolutely wrong. I'm sure they have to feel a little more satisfied that the thug that murdered four people just for a laugh is dead. The only sad thing is that it took 20 odd years. loads of the tax payers money and some fat ba$tard lawyers making a fortune out of it. He should have fried a long time ago. Just writing a couple of children's books might fool these moronic hollywood celebs and give them something to talk about at their 1000 dollar a plate fundraisers but thank God it didn't affect the outcome of another scumbag getting what he deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Footsoldier for President tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9652 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 There is no doubt in anybody's mind that he commited the murders. He bragged and laughed about them. And as usual the bleeding hearts are out on the streets along with that idiot jesse jackson...any bit of limelight and there he is. Well there are always doubts, especially of those people who in fact work in the legal profession and know how difficult it is to handle evidence. And there has been some doubt in this case. Not much, but at least enough for people like me to think that the death penalty is not reasonable. As for saying it doesn't give consolation to the victim's relatives I would say you are absolutely wrong. I'm sure they have to feel a little more satisfied that the thug that murdered four people just for a laugh is dead. The only sad thing is that it took 20 odd years. loads of the tax payers money and some fat ba$tard lawyers making a fortune out of it. He should have fried a long time ago. The vast majority of relatives in those cases concede that the feeling of consolation is rather short - if it exists at all. It certainly doesn't bring back the loved ones. That killing a murderer brings consolation is a myth created by the dead hard guys. It's them who are pleased to see a criminal die, not the relatives. And they always moan about the amount of tax payer's money the modern constitutional state costs. Ironically they are the same people who sit on the high horse when it comes to archaic legal systems like those in Arabia. Just writing a couple of children's books might fool these moronic hollywood celebs and give them something to talk about at their 1000 dollar a plate fundraisers but thank God it didn't affect the outcome of another scumbag getting what he deserved. 67436[/snapback] While killing criminals gives the crude man from the street some little pleasure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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