Newcastle Finances in the Championship

[Guest]

You've definitely backtracked from your "anybody but Freddy" stance that you didn't claim but Leazes claims you claimed like

 

Edit: Not just you, all the others too, not mentioning their names, and all those kids on NO too, who all said the same thing - A WINE-DRINKING HOBO WOULD BE BETTER THAN SHEPHERD

Edited March 31, 2011 by AshleysSkidMark

[LeazesMag 0]

Personally, I think that Mike Ashley wanted to look for an outlet, for want of a better word, to sit alongside his Sports Direct. A big football club, with huge support [we won't go into that I've said my bit] fitted the bill perfectly.

 

He was naive, or stupid, or both, for not doing his diligence etc. There isn't much doubt that he was shocked at the costs involved in football - naive and stupid - which wasn't what he expected at all. He has set about running it as a business as he thinks it should be run. He is well known for being a maverick sort of figure, so may even be aware now that his approach is not what went before, but isn't really bothered so long as he makes some money out of it, although there is a case for him not making money and sacrificing that if he made it up as a vehicle sitting alongside Sports Direct.

 

I'm guessing, none of us know, but I'm absolutely certain that he - now - has no intention at all of doing what is required to make it a success on the pitch and try to get the money from the Champions League because although it is a gamble, its the sort of gamble that just does not appeal to him.

 

His naivety about football, which was obvious from the very start, is unfortunate and it is us who are the ones who have to put up with the frustration of it as supporters of the club.

 

Maybe I haven't worded this perfectly, I'm sure others will have their say and expand in different ways.

 

 

The moon's blue, a Leazes post I agree with, almost.

 

The Champions league (at this time) would need a financial gamble that even he isn't rich enough to go at. To be honest, our best bet of C/L ever again is Platini's new rules, if fully enforced (which I doubt) because then, our "size" would have a material effect again.

 

 

 

some mad foreigner will bail him out for what he has put in

 

And Mike Ashley has the same plan

 

[Guest]

I'll tell you who else would be better than Shepherd - an actual shepherd, that looks after sheep.

[LeazesMag 0]

You've definitely backtracked from your "anybody but Freddy" stance that you didn't claim but Leazes claims you claimed like

 

Edit: Not just you, all the others too, not mentioning their names, and all those kids on NO too, who all said the same thing - A WINE-DRINKING HOBO WOULD BE BETTER THAN SHEPHERD

 

how do you know, you were still in your short pants - and probably still are

[Toonpack 9950]

you're backtracking, as I knew you - and others - would. And I've been saying that for over 3 years. It is no excuse for selling our best players to clubs we should be aspiring to get back above, and other clubs who are smaller than us and others who are nothing clubs, which is what has happened since this tosspot bought the club, and people like you have defended him because you have your head up your arse about his predecessors.

 

Please point out examples of said backtracking.

 

I still believe we would have been royally screwed under the continuance of the previous regime. Because the business model was absolutely, 100%, indisputably, unsustainable. (and no I don't "hate" them, I do think they were chancers supreme, who got lucky though and they screwed up as bad as FCB has, if not worse).

 

I still firmly believe that, "what has happened to this club since the tosspot bought us" is significantly less bad, than what would have happened come 2008 and the banking debacle under the previous ownership, I also believe SJH's indecent haste to "get rid" indicates he saw the signs as well. (they'd - the club - already spent/lost £3mill on failed attempts to sell/refinance).

 

I still believe we are "lucky" that Ashley was stupid enough to buy us without due dilligence. I am glad (gratefull even) he had deep pockets in proportion to his stupidity and the black hole he bought.

 

I do believe he has shown great incompetence for a supposed business genius.

 

I do not want the previous regime back in charge, ever.

 

Accepting stupid money for Carroll, was absolutely the right thing to do IF it is spent in the summer (and no I won't say give him to January if it's not spent). This is the defining moment for FCB, the club HAS the money and should use it "on the field".

 

Liverpool are (still) a bigger draw than us to players and are considered, within the game (which is where it matters) bigger than us, irrespective of any measurables to the contrary.

 

Without an Arab/Oligarch challenging for the C/L places again has been an unrealisable fantasy for years, irrespective of regime.

 

I think all of the above has been my position throughout. I agreed with the plausability of your theory around Ashley's purchase, I vehemently disagree with you on just about everything else. Mainly becuase you have no answers.

 

As I said at the top, please feel free to give examples of my "changing" position.

[Guest]

I was one of the kids off NO, obviously

[Guest]

Look we've learned nowt new here from Leazes.

 

 

He said he judges the club by what happens on the pitch, but then when it suits points to the balance sheet to indicate decline.

 

 

He says you've got to speculate to accumulate, shoot to score a goal etc etc, but hasn't said where the money will come from and how it will be repaid when that speculating inevitably fails to land us CL money. He also hasn't answered how much investment he thinks would secure a Champions League place.

 

 

His irrational "any stick to beat him with" attitude towards Ashley even has him condemning selling a player that just months before he claimed was worse than Jermaine Beckford, for £35m.

 

 

 

All I suggest Toonpack, is ignoring him - or poking fun - typing sensible posts to the man is a complete waste of time.

Edited March 31, 2011 by AshleysSkidMark

[LeazesMag 0]

you're backtracking, as I knew you - and others - would. And I've been saying that for over 3 years. It is no excuse for selling our best players to clubs we should be aspiring to get back above, and other clubs who are smaller than us and others who are nothing clubs, which is what has happened since this tosspot bought the club, and people like you have defended him because you have your head up your arse about his predecessors.

 

Please point out examples of said backtracking.

 

I still believe we would have been royally screwed under the continuance of the previous regime. Because the business model was absolutely, 100%, indisputably, unsustainable. (and no I don't "hate" them, I do think they were chancers supreme, who got lucky though and they screwed up as bad as FCB has, if not worse).

 

I still firmly believe that, "what has happened to this club since the tosspot bought us" is significantly less bad, than what would have happened come 2008 and the banking debacle under the previous ownership, I also believe SJH's indecent haste to "get rid" indicates he saw the signs as well. (they'd - the club - already spent/lost £3mill on failed attempts to sell/refinance).

 

I still believe we are "lucky" that Ashley was stupid enough to buy us without due dilligence. I am glad (gratefull even) he had deep pockets in proportion to his stupidity and the black hole he bought.

 

I do believe he has shown great incompetence for a supposed business genius.

 

I do not want the previous regime back in charge, ever.

 

Accepting stupid money for Carroll, was absolutely the right thing to do IF it is spent in the summer (and no I won't say give him to January if it's not spent). This is the defining moment for FCB, the club HAS the money and should use it "on the field".

 

Liverpool are (still) a bigger draw than us to players and are considered, within the game (which is where it matters) bigger than us, irrespective of any measurables to the contrary.

 

Without an Arab/Oligarch challenging for the C/L places again has been an unrealisable fantasy for years, irrespective of regime.

 

I think all of the above has been my position throughout. I agreed with the plausability of your theory around Ashley's purchase, I vehemently disagree with you on just about everything else. Mainly becuase you have no answers.

 

As I said at the top, please feel free to give examples of my "changing" position.

 

mostly, just your "opinions". However, the FACTS are:

 

We qualified for europe more than any club bar 4 in a 15-year period.

 

Despite your claims the club was "fucked", the club was NOT relegated to the championship/2nd division during their time in charge. They in fact, SAVED the club from relegation to the THIRD division, were PROMOTED immediately to the Premier League and stayed there for the rest of their time in charge.

 

They understood what it took to compete at the upper levels, alongside the clubs we ought to be sitting alongside, and did it.

 

They attracted 30,000 supporters back to the club who had deserted it on the back of long term apathy, and it was the 2nd highest supported club in the country until Arsenal opened their new stadium, where they left it as the 3rd most supported club in the country.

 

We BOUGHT top quality footballers to enable us to do all of the above, not SOLD them to our rivals behind our managers back.

 

We BACKED all our managers with enough funds to compete at the top levels and attracted other top players to the club who correctly, accordingly saw the club as a top proposition and a club showing ambition and was a progressive club who aimed to continue to attempt to compete at these high levels.

 

They DID NOT put the club into administration, they SAVED it from administration, and left it 14th in the football rich list, with one of the best stadiums in the country and an established club who were expected to qualify for europe every year [instead of aiming for 10th as their successors have admitted], from a starting base of one foot in the 3rd division and unable to float a share issue among businesses in the city and supporters for the paltry sum of 1.25m, leaving a transformed club valued at anywhere between 100m and 200m quid.

 

The days of someone owning this club and matching what they did, as it has only happened once in half a century, may never be repeated in your lifetime, therefore this makes them GOOD owners of the club, if not VERY GOOD, and without any doubt whatsoever one of the best owners of any club during their time in charge, and the best owners of this club in your lifetime by a million miles.

 

All of the above, means it will be VERY DIFFICULT to replace them with better [but of course, tosspots like you and your lad think they were "shit"]

 

Comment on the above. Of course, according to you, as they were so "shit", now we have an astute owner and chairman, it should be piss easy to take the club "to the next level and do better", thus aiming for the dizzy heights of 10th in the premiership where we will all be ecstatic and be forever thankful for Mike Ashley for not relegating the club and putting in place a scouting system where we can find an odd decent player to sell and attempt to deceive the more gullible among our support that its all in the clubs best interests because we are out of our depth attempting to challenge clubs like Spurs and Liverpool ever again.

Edited March 31, 2011 by LeazesMag

[Guest]

When the feelings gone and you can't go on it's LeazesMag

[Deano 0]

Broken fuckin record.

[McFaul 35]

When its time to chuck it, cos the threads are tedious shit, thats the Stevie

[Toonpack 9950]

My opinions are stated and I stand by them. End of. If you wish to find variance from said opinions of mine go ahead, please don't just make them up out of thin air.

 

thus aiming for the dizzy heights of 10th in the premiership where we will all be ecstatic and be forever thankful

 

 

Regarding the snippet above, post Keegan, our average league position over the years was 9th (9.4th) to be precise. 10th or above year on year would actually equal that and you seem ecstatic and forever thankfull for that.

 

Of course winning one solitary thing, would surpass it all.

[LeazesMag 0]

My opinions are stated and I stand by them. End of. If you wish to find variance from said opinions of mine go ahead, please don't just make them up out of thin air.

 

thus aiming for the dizzy heights of 10th in the premiership where we will all be ecstatic and be forever thankful

 

 

Regarding the snippet above, post Keegan, our average league position over the years was 9th (9.4th) to be precise. 10th or above year on year would actually equal that and you seem ecstatic and forever thankfull for that.

 

Of course winning one solitary thing, would surpass it all.

 

we had the 5th highest average league position during their 15 years in charge of the club.

 

They weren't aiming for 10th, they were aiming for the top. Big difference.

 

You will never get it, because it means you admitting they were a good board. Your head is up your arse man.

 

As you said, you post "opinion", opinions slanted towards personalities. I have posted FACTS, which I see you don't dispute, because you quite simply can't dispute them. What a shame they don't suit your "opinions".

 

Like a lot of people too, you are shy of telling us whether or not the people you despise were those who attracted you back to supporting the club when they saved it from obscurity and long term apathy. What hypocrites.

[Guest]

Averages hide inconsistency do they not?

[LeazesMag 0]

Averages hide inconsistency do they not?

 

that average has slipped now since your man came in and we were relegated.

[Guest]

But are you using mean median or mode?

[Toonpack 9950]

They weren't aiming for 10th, they were aiming for the top. Big difference.

 

They achieved 9.4th post Keegan (7.642857th inclusive of KK)

 

 

You will never get it, because it means you admitting they were a good board. Your head is up your arse man.

 

They were for a time, then the world changed and they didn't/couldn't or maybe didn't want to because the gravy train kept a rollin.

 

As you said, you post "opinion", opinions slanted towards personalities. I have posted FACTS, which I see you don't dispute, because you quite simply can't dispute them. What a shame they don't suit your "opinions".

 

You post selected outdated "facts" of no relevance to the period in question. If you want to play that game the best regime we ever had was in the 50's FACT.

 

Like a lot of people too, you are shy of telling us whether or not the people you despise were those who attracted you back to supporting the club when they saved it from obscurity and long term apathy. What hypocrites.

 

They weren't. You spout this same bollocks all the time, 23 years ago this past Wednesday 7,000 turned up to support the team against Wrexham, it was abondoned at half time, without me it'd have been 6,999. What you think of me is irrelevant to me, you are deluded beyond all comprehension.

 

I don't despise them, I realised in the cold light of day that after they drove KK off and the brief hiatus under SBR that they were utterly clueless.

 

I don't get all emotional about stuff, never have, just like to be realistic.

 

Now fuck off to your Mohammed shed and wave bacon at the neighbours.

[Deano 0]

They weren't aiming for 10th, they were aiming for the top. Big difference.

 

They achieved 9.4th post Keegan (7.642857th inclusive of KK)

 

 

You will never get it, because it means you admitting they were a good board. Your head is up your arse man.

 

They were for a time, then the world changed and they didn't/couldn't or maybe didn't want to because the gravy train kept a rollin.

 

As you said, you post "opinion", opinions slanted towards personalities. I have posted FACTS, which I see you don't dispute, because you quite simply can't dispute them. What a shame they don't suit your "opinions".

 

You post selected outdated "facts" of no relevance to the period in question. If you want to play that game the best regime we ever had was in the 50's FACT.

 

Like a lot of people too, you are shy of telling us whether or not the people you despise were those who attracted you back to supporting the club when they saved it from obscurity and long term apathy. What hypocrites.

 

They weren't. You spout this same bollocks all the time, 23 years ago this past Wednesday 7,000 turned up to support the team against Wrexham, it was abondoned at half time, without me it'd have been 6,999. What you think of me is irrelevant to me, you are deluded beyond all comprehension.

 

I don't despise them, I realised in the cold light of day that after they drove KK off and the brief hiatus under SBR that they were utterly clueless.

 

I don't get all emotional about stuff, never have, just like to be realistic.

 

Now fuck off to your Mohammed shed and wave bacon at the neighbours.

 

 

Golden

[LeazesMag 0]

They weren't aiming for 10th, they were aiming for the top. Big difference.

 

They achieved 9.4th post Keegan (7.642857th inclusive of KK)

 

 

You will never get it, because it means you admitting they were a good board. Your head is up your arse man.

 

They were for a time, then the world changed and they didn't/couldn't or maybe didn't want to because the gravy train kept a rollin.

 

As you said, you post "opinion", opinions slanted towards personalities. I have posted FACTS, which I see you don't dispute, because you quite simply can't dispute them. What a shame they don't suit your "opinions".

 

You post selected outdated "facts" of no relevance to the period in question. If you want to play that game the best regime we ever had was in the 50's FACT.

 

Like a lot of people too, you are shy of telling us whether or not the people you despise were those who attracted you back to supporting the club when they saved it from obscurity and long term apathy. What hypocrites.

 

They weren't. You spout this same bollocks all the time, 23 years ago this past Wednesday 7,000 turned up to support the team against Wrexham, it was abondoned at half time, without me it'd have been 6,999. What you think of me is irrelevant to me, you are deluded beyond all comprehension.

 

I don't despise them, I realised in the cold light of day that after they drove KK off and the brief hiatus under SBR that they were utterly clueless.

 

I don't get all emotional about stuff, never have, just like to be realistic.

 

Now fuck off to your Mohammed shed and wave bacon at the neighbours.

 

 

didn't you have a go at Keegan a few weeks ago ? More hypocrisy ?

 

 

The average position was the 5th highest, going by your warped logic - so you don't feel you have to give any credit for anything now there's a surprise - nobody has a position of 1st because nobody has been first every single season

 

The "realism" you talk about also attracted Keegan in the first place, this is also bollocks, its like saying Chelsea drove Mourhinho away, but not before he gave them success...what sort of fucking idiot comes out with "logic" like this

 

Only those who can't bring it in themselves to give credit to anyone because they have an irrational hatred, would be the answer I would say.

 

How sad is that. I hope in your lifetime someone DOES come along and do better than the Halls and Shepherd mate, because it will also be the best in mine too. I suppose at least I can say I appreciated it while it was there and wasn't a huge hypocrite later.

 

Ref the 1950's, I said it was the best for half a century, you should learn to read too.

 

Ref the Mohammed comment, how close to SJP did you say you live, a stones throw ? Is that Brighton Grove

Edited March 31, 2011 by LeazesMag

[Toonpack 9950]

didn't you have a go at Keegan a few weeks ago ? More hypocrisy ?

 

Nope, his was the best period I have known, I had a pop at him for opening his gob now, when it's of no import.

 

BTW he said he'd have sold Carroll too.

 

P.S. Stolen from elsewhere for your crtitique,

 

"The Board, from 1999, effectively went on to ignore the llisting obligations and only satisfy the corporate governance code of best practice by invoking the clause to "comply or explain". While good corporate governance does not guarantee success, wanton abandonment of good practice always ends in disaster, which was indeed the fate that befell Newcastle United.

 

However, their salaries increased - unlike those of their unpaid predecessors - to a level that, when they quit, both Douglas Hall and Freddy Shepherd were being paid £500,000 per year, to refelct 'increased responsibilities', while the Hall and Shepherd families were collecting dividends of in aggregate of £2.7 million per annum, authorised by themselves. The company was sold in 2007 when there was no cash left to pay a dividend in 2006. In that period, from flotation in 1997 to the sale in 2007, they had sold shares (including the final transaction with Mike Ashley) to realise almost £100 million, to which payments of dicidends , salaries and other benefits contributed another £52 million. Did their performance over that period justify such rewards?

 

In United's 11 seasons in the Premiership under their stewardship, they employed 10 managers, of whom only two were successful, Kevin Keegan and Bobby Robson. They disillusioned Kevin Keegan and brutally sacked Robson. They never understood the Premiership, nor their managers, but they did increase their own personal wealth significantly.

 

Any success was short lived, democratisation an illusion, and revitalisation of the board was discarded. By the time the business was sold , it was in financial chaos. Financially, it was in a worse state in 2007 than it had been in 1990 when SJH acquirted it."

 

The words of former board member Dennis Cassidy.

[Guest]

 

didn't you have a go at Keegan a few weeks ago ? More hypocrisy ?

 

 

The average position was the 5th highest, going by your warped logic - so you don't feel you have to give any credit for anything now there's a surprise - nobody has a position of 1st because nobody has been first every single season

 

The "realism" you talk about also attracted Keegan in the first place, this is also bollocks, its like saying Chelsea drove Mourhinho away, but not before he gave them success...what sort of fucking idiot comes out with "logic" like this

 

Only those who can't bring it in themselves to give credit to anyone because they have an irrational hatred, would be the answer I would say.

 

How sad is that. I hope in your lifetime someone DOES come along and do better than the Halls and Shepherd mate, because it will also be the best in mine too. I suppose at least I can say I appreciated it while it was there and wasn't a huge hypocrite later.

 

Ref the 1950's, I said it was the best for half a century, you should learn to read too.

 

Ref the Mohammed comment, how close to SJP did you say you live, a stones throw ? Is that Brighton Grove

 

 

Actually, Man Utd have a median average position of 1st

[McFaul 35]

Ref the Mohammed comment, how close to SJP did you say you live, a stones throw ? Is that Brighton Grove

[LeazesMag 0]

didn't you have a go at Keegan a few weeks ago ? More hypocrisy ?

 

Nope, his was the best period I have known, I had a pop at him for opening his gob now, when it's of no import.

 

BTW he said he'd have sold Carroll too.

 

P.S. Stolen from elsewhere for your crtitique,

 

"The Board, from 1999, effectively went on to ignore the llisting obligations and only satisfy the corporate governance code of best practice by invoking the clause to "comply or explain". While good corporate governance does not guarantee success, wanton abandonment of good practice always ends in disaster, which was indeed the fate that befell Newcastle United.

 

However, their salaries increased - unlike those of their unpaid predecessors - to a level that, when they quit, both Douglas Hall and Freddy Shepherd were being paid £500,000 per year, to refelct 'increased responsibilities', while the Hall and Shepherd families were collecting dividends of in aggregate of £2.7 million per annum, authorised by themselves. The company was sold in 2007 when there was no cash left to pay a dividend in 2006. In that period, from flotation in 1997 to the sale in 2007, they had sold shares (including the final transaction with Mike Ashley) to realise almost £100 million, to which payments of dicidends , salaries and other benefits contributed another £52 million. Did their performance over that period justify such rewards?

 

In United's 11 seasons in the Premiership under their stewardship, they employed 10 managers, of whom only two were successful, Kevin Keegan and Bobby Robson. They disillusioned Kevin Keegan and brutally sacked Robson. They never understood the Premiership, nor their managers, but they did increase their own personal wealth significantly.

 

Any success was short lived, democratisation an illusion, and revitalisation of the board was discarded. By the time the business was sold , it was in financial chaos. Financially, it was in a worse state in 2007 than it had been in 1990 when SJH acquirted it."

 

The words of former board member Dennis Cassidy.

 

you can answer the whole post if you like.

 

"2 were successful", and covered 10 of their 15 years in charge, what is wrong with that ? What sort of dreamland do you live in, give credit where it is due man, you are pathetic, they attracted 30000 people back to the club. Are they all hypocrites like you ? How many successful managers has Mike Ashley appointed ? How many will he appoint ? How many successful managers did the Mckeags and Seymours appoint ?

 

You're fucking potty, your hatred, if it wasn't so sad, would be the funniest thing ever, but at least you aren't on your own in your one sided pettiness and lack of grace towards the only people who gave you a good football team in half a century and qualified for europe more than everybody else in the history of the club.

 

I don't care about the opinions of someone you cherry pick because he suits your agenda and shares you own irrational hatred, I prefer to go by facts, and I've posted them for you.

[LeazesMag 0]

 

didn't you have a go at Keegan a few weeks ago ? More hypocrisy ?

 

 

The average position was the 5th highest, going by your warped logic - so you don't feel you have to give any credit for anything now there's a surprise - nobody has a position of 1st because nobody has been first every single season

 

The "realism" you talk about also attracted Keegan in the first place, this is also bollocks, its like saying Chelsea drove Mourhinho away, but not before he gave them success...what sort of fucking idiot comes out with "logic" like this

 

Only those who can't bring it in themselves to give credit to anyone because they have an irrational hatred, would be the answer I would say.

 

How sad is that. I hope in your lifetime someone DOES come along and do better than the Halls and Shepherd mate, because it will also be the best in mine too. I suppose at least I can say I appreciated it while it was there and wasn't a huge hypocrite later.

 

Ref the 1950's, I said it was the best for half a century, you should learn to read too.

 

Ref the Mohammed comment, how close to SJP did you say you live, a stones throw ? Is that Brighton Grove

 

 

Actually, Man Utd have a median average position of 1st

 

since ? Since Alex Ferguson became manager ? Since 1992, the beginnings of the premiership ? Show us the figures. Actually this is terrible, its so easy to be first, everybody does it, why don't we copy the ManU model instead of the Stoke City model ? Those damn trophy players, what a waste of money

[Guest]

Our median average premiership position under the halls and the shepathon was between 6th and 7th, not 5th