Newcastle Finances in the Championship

[LeazesMag 0]

Mike Ashley clearly doesn’t have a clue how to run a competitive football club — I know this is our promotion season and our main concern is avoiding relegation — but if we do qualify for Europe in the future, he’d shit himself.

 

If we do stay up and “compete for European places” then that is the maximum he’d stretch to. Having to put a squad together that could cope with the demands of a European competition and the top 10, then he’d be well out of his depth.

 

The last transfer window was another litmus test for him, but he chose to cut costs rather than pushing on from the healthy position we were in — and that’s the gambler without wisdom in him. You only have to look at our centre forwards (since the window shut) that he’s happy to gamble on staying up with, to know he likes to take high risks.

 

Running a football club at the upper levels is a financially scary proposition for someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing, and it seems at the moment he’s more driven by the buzz of doing it his way with reduced outlay, than with any aspirations that come with the capabilities of a club the size of NUFC.

 

You only need to look at him employing a casino manager mate of his and Joe Kinnear to understand his mindset. He tried to do it differently with KK and Wise but got his fingers burnt as he was well out of his depth, he hasn’t got the balls to do what is needed anymore, so now he aspires to the ‘success’ of Wigan et al — and that’s about it.

 

The danger is now that he thinks relegation isn’t really a problem as he’s got through it before....

 

unfortunately, there are STILL people who

 

1. Won't admit they have been spouting bollocks, or are

2. So dumb they REALLY believe the crap the club is telling them.

 

And not just on here.

[LeazesMag 0]

The expectations have to be lowered because of the burden of debt left by the previous owners - you might not agree LM but they're just as much to blame for our current predicament as Ashley.

 

Unless you have a realistic suggestion as to how anyone can change that situation of course.

That simply isn’t true. £135m was a stupid price to pay for a club that was apparently about to cease to exist, and we all know why he paid way over the odds. It’s ironic a man renowned for bargain buys should get so well and truly ripped off. Ashley gambled and lost.

 

The bottom line is in close to four years the club’s revenues have dropped, attendances have dropped and its status has dropped. The only key business indicator that has gone up is the amount of money it owes, which has near enough doubled and now stands in excess of £150m. It’s a shocking state of affairs and there is only one person to blame.

 

The local media need to grow some balls and scrutinise the data, not just regurgitate the club’s absurd spin.

 

the biggest and most telling "facts" of all, and indisputable.

[Mr Gittes 0]

Dunno whether it's been mentionned before, but Lee Ryder's arselicking story in today's Chronicle is so fucking pathetic. Praising them for not using an escalator (!) which safed them £10'000 last year. He talks in the way Pardew does FFS.

[Giraffidae 0]

The expectations have to be lowered because of the burden of debt left by the previous owners - you might not agree LM but they're just as much to blame for our current predicament as Ashley.

 

Unless you have a realistic suggestion as to how anyone can change that situation of course.

That simply isn’t true. £135m was a stupid price to pay for a club that was apparently about to cease to exist, and we all know why he paid way over the odds. It’s ironic a man renowned for bargain buys should get so well and truly ripped off. Ashley gambled and lost.

 

The bottom line is in close to four years the club’s revenues have dropped, attendances have dropped and its status has dropped. The only key business indicator that has gone up is the amount of money it owes, which has near enough doubled and now stands in excess of £150m. It’s a shocking state of affairs and there is only one person to blame.

 

The local media need to grow some balls and scrutinise the data, not just regurgitate the club’s absurd spin.

 

the biggest and most telling "facts" of all, and indisputable.

NUFC’s revenues have been declining dramatically since Ashley took over and even with slashing the wage bill is still declining. Ashley’s keeps having to plug the gaps that his incompetence has created.

 

But oh well, lets believe the clubs statements — ‘hail Ashley the saviour’ — hahahaha, yeh right.

[snakehips 0]

The expectations have to be lowered because of the burden of debt left by the previous owners - you might not agree LM but they're just as much to blame for our current predicament as Ashley.

 

Unless you have a realistic suggestion as to how anyone can change that situation of course.

That simply isn’t true. £135m was a stupid price to pay for a club that was apparently about to cease to exist, and we all know why he paid way over the odds. It’s ironic a man renowned for bargain buys should get so well and truly ripped off. Ashley gambled and lost.

 

The bottom line is in close to four years the club’s revenues have dropped, attendances have dropped and its status has dropped. The only key business indicator that has gone up is the amount of money it owes, which has near enough doubled and now stands in excess of £150m. It’s a shocking state of affairs and there is only one person to blame.

 

The local media need to grow some balls and scrutinise the data, not just regurgitate the club’s absurd spin.

 

So, in essence, you're saying we should thank LardAsh for saving the club. Nice one, Mike.

[LeazesMag 0]

The expectations have to be lowered because of the burden of debt left by the previous owners - you might not agree LM but they're just as much to blame for our current predicament as Ashley.

 

Unless you have a realistic suggestion as to how anyone can change that situation of course.

That simply isn’t true. £135m was a stupid price to pay for a club that was apparently about to cease to exist, and we all know why he paid way over the odds. It’s ironic a man renowned for bargain buys should get so well and truly ripped off. Ashley gambled and lost.

 

The bottom line is in close to four years the club’s revenues have dropped, attendances have dropped and its status has dropped. The only key business indicator that has gone up is the amount of money it owes, which has near enough doubled and now stands in excess of £150m. It’s a shocking state of affairs and there is only one person to blame.

 

The local media need to grow some balls and scrutinise the data, not just regurgitate the club’s absurd spin.

 

So, in essence, you're saying we should thank LardAsh for saving the club. Nice one, Mike.

 

the key word being "apparently!"

[Happy Face 29]

The expectations have to be lowered because of the burden of debt left by the previous owners - you might not agree LM but they're just as much to blame for our current predicament as Ashley.

 

Unless you have a realistic suggestion as to how anyone can change that situation of course.

That simply isn’t true. £135m was a stupid price to pay for a club that was apparently about to cease to exist, and we all know why he paid way over the odds. It’s ironic a man renowned for bargain buys should get so well and truly ripped off. Ashley gambled and lost.

 

The bottom line is in close to four years the club’s revenues have dropped, attendances have dropped and its status has dropped. The only key business indicator that has gone up is the amount of money it owes, which has near enough doubled and now stands in excess of £150m. It’s a shocking state of affairs and there is only one person to blame.

 

The local media need to grow some balls and scrutinise the data, not just regurgitate the club’s absurd spin.

 

the biggest and most telling "facts" of all, and indisputable.

 

In Freddy's final year losses were £33m and debt was £70m

 

Last year we lost £33m so there's no decrease in the bottom line, even in the championship. Losing £33m a year over 4 years would have added £132m more debt....but we've only actually added £80m of debt in that time, so that's a slowing of the decline.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Happy Face

[NJS 4411]

The expectations have to be lowered because of the burden of debt left by the previous owners - you might not agree LM but they're just as much to blame for our current predicament as Ashley.

 

Unless you have a realistic suggestion as to how anyone can change that situation of course.

That simply isn’t true. £135m was a stupid price to pay for a club that was apparently about to cease to exist, and we all know why he paid way over the odds. It’s ironic a man renowned for bargain buys should get so well and truly ripped off. Ashley gambled and lost.

 

The bottom line is in close to four years the club’s revenues have dropped, attendances have dropped and its status has dropped. The only key business indicator that has gone up is the amount of money it owes, which has near enough doubled and now stands in excess of £150m. It’s a shocking state of affairs and there is only one person to blame.

 

The local media need to grow some balls and scrutinise the data, not just regurgitate the club’s absurd spin.

 

I don't get this - are you saying Ashley thought he was getting a bargain and thought he was shafting the "daft Geordies" only to find the joke was on him when the debts were revealed?

 

Nobody comes out of the mess well apart from maybe Shepherd himself who at least tried to stop the sale. The cunts who sold their shares among shite about "handing over the reigns to the right man" while sniggering behind his back about the mortgage terms and future liabilities (while their mate was seriously ill BTW) on one hand and the stupid cunt who didn't do due diligence on the other.

 

That key indicator you mention has gone from 110m to 150m and relegation is a factor in that as is falling performances all round but the idea that the extra 40m wouldn't have had to be found anyway to finance Shepherd's debt driven cash flow model is naive - especially as I doubt he would have attacked the wage bill.

[LeazesMag 0]

The expectations have to be lowered because of the burden of debt left by the previous owners - you might not agree LM but they're just as much to blame for our current predicament as Ashley.

 

Unless you have a realistic suggestion as to how anyone can change that situation of course.

That simply isn’t true. £135m was a stupid price to pay for a club that was apparently about to cease to exist, and we all know why he paid way over the odds. It’s ironic a man renowned for bargain buys should get so well and truly ripped off. Ashley gambled and lost.

 

The bottom line is in close to four years the club’s revenues have dropped, attendances have dropped and its status has dropped. The only key business indicator that has gone up is the amount of money it owes, which has near enough doubled and now stands in excess of £150m. It’s a shocking state of affairs and there is only one person to blame.

 

The local media need to grow some balls and scrutinise the data, not just regurgitate the club’s absurd spin.

 

I don't get this - are you saying Ashley thought he was getting a bargain and thought he was shafting the "daft Geordies" only to find the joke was on him when the debts were revealed?

 

Nobody comes out of the mess well apart from maybe Shepherd himself who at least tried to stop the sale. The cunts who sold their shares among shite about "handing over the reigns to the right man" while sniggering behind his back about the mortgage terms and future liabilities (while their mate was seriously ill BTW) on one hand and the stupid cunt who didn't do due diligence on the other.

 

That key indicator you mention has gone from 110m to 150m and relegation is a factor in that as is falling performances all round but the idea that the extra 40m wouldn't have had to be found anyway to finance Shepherd's debt driven cash flow model is naive - especially as I doubt he would have attacked the wage bill.

 

Personally, I think that Mike Ashley wanted to look for an outlet, for want of a better word, to sit alongside his Sports Direct. A big football club, with huge support [we won't go into that I've said my bit] fitted the bill perfectly.

 

He was naive, or stupid, or both, for not doing his diligence etc. There isn't much doubt that he was shocked at the costs involved in football - naive and stupid - which wasn't what he expected at all. He has set about running it as a business as he thinks it should be run. He is well known for being a maverick sort of figure, so may even be aware now that his approach is not what went before, but isn't really bothered so long as he makes some money out of it, although there is a case for him not making money and sacrificing that if he made it up as a vehicle sitting alongside Sports Direct.

 

I'm guessing, none of us know, but I'm absolutely certain that he - now - has no intention at all of doing what is required to make it a success on the pitch and try to get the money from the Champions League because although it is a gamble, its the sort of gamble that just does not appeal to him.

 

His naivety about football, which was obvious from the very start, is unfortunate and it is us who are the ones who have to put up with the frustration of it as supporters of the club.

 

Maybe I haven't worded this perfectly, I'm sure others will have their say and expand in different ways.

[NJS 4411]

The expectations have to be lowered because of the burden of debt left by the previous owners - you might not agree LM but they're just as much to blame for our current predicament as Ashley.

 

Unless you have a realistic suggestion as to how anyone can change that situation of course.

That simply isn’t true. £135m was a stupid price to pay for a club that was apparently about to cease to exist, and we all know why he paid way over the odds. It’s ironic a man renowned for bargain buys should get so well and truly ripped off. Ashley gambled and lost.

 

The bottom line is in close to four years the club’s revenues have dropped, attendances have dropped and its status has dropped. The only key business indicator that has gone up is the amount of money it owes, which has near enough doubled and now stands in excess of £150m. It’s a shocking state of affairs and there is only one person to blame.

 

The local media need to grow some balls and scrutinise the data, not just regurgitate the club’s absurd spin.

 

I don't get this - are you saying Ashley thought he was getting a bargain and thought he was shafting the "daft Geordies" only to find the joke was on him when the debts were revealed?

 

Nobody comes out of the mess well apart from maybe Shepherd himself who at least tried to stop the sale. The cunts who sold their shares among shite about "handing over the reigns to the right man" while sniggering behind his back about the mortgage terms and future liabilities (while their mate was seriously ill BTW) on one hand and the stupid cunt who didn't do due diligence on the other.

 

That key indicator you mention has gone from 110m to 150m and relegation is a factor in that as is falling performances all round but the idea that the extra 40m wouldn't have had to be found anyway to finance Shepherd's debt driven cash flow model is naive - especially as I doubt he would have attacked the wage bill.

 

Personally, I think that Mike Ashley wanted to look for an outlet, for want of a better word, to sit alongside his Sports Direct. A big football club, with huge support [we won't go into that I've said my bit] fitted the bill perfectly.

 

He was naive, or stupid, or both, for not doing his diligence etc. There isn't much doubt that he was shocked at the costs involved in football - naive and stupid - which wasn't what he expected at all. He has set about running it as a business as he thinks it should be run. He is well known for being a maverick sort of figure, so may even be aware now that his approach is not what went before, but isn't really bothered so long as he makes some money out of it, although there is a case for him not making money and sacrificing that if he made it up as a vehicle sitting alongside Sports Direct.

 

I'm guessing, none of us know, but I'm absolutely certain that he - now - has no intention at all of doing what is required to make it a success on the pitch and try to get the money from the Champions League because although it is a gamble, its the sort of gamble that just does not appeal to him.

 

His naivety about football, which was obvious from the very start, is unfortunate and it is us who are the ones who have to put up with the frustration of it as supporters of the club.

 

Maybe I haven't worded this perfectly, I'm sure others will have their say and expand in different ways.

 

Now that I agree with - the saddest element for me is the schizo way that one minute he talks about it being "properly run" and 5 year plans and the next (though not so much recently) talking about enjoying the thrills of the actual game as if he'd bought it as a "plaything".

 

Even though it was just another piece of bullshit I think his "20m in per year above and beyond running costs" would be a way forward if he stuck to it (plus allowing sales profits as well) but I don't suppose that's a starter either.

Edited March 30, 2011 by NJS

[Deano 0]

I think some people are forgetting that he came in and paid over 100mil of debt off? That debt was being called in and the club would of went tits up.

 

Who ran that debt up and put us in that situation?

 

If the club had been ran better under FFS and SJR there would not of been that debt to clear nor a real reason to sell the club.

 

Yes he was naive and stupid not doing due diligence but he has done whats needed doing to stabilise us again financially.

 

I cant see how thats a bad thing at all.

 

He now just needs to invest sensibly and we can progress on the pitch too.

[Matt 0]

I think some people are forgetting that he came in and paid over 100mil of debt off? That debt was being called in and the club would of went tits up.

 

Who ran that debt up and put us in that situation?

 

Lets get a few things straight. We had £60-70m of long-term debt that wasn't on demand- it was in place (IIRC) until 2014. It only had to be repaid because the club was sold.

 

Who put that debt there? The previous board, as they installed 15,000 extra seats and more corporate boxes, which generated more revenue than the cost of repaying the debt- ie enhancing overall profit for the club.

 

So you should really be lavising praise. It was a very good deal.

 

The overdraft, not quite so much.

[OTF 7492]

I think some people are forgetting that he came in and paid over 100mil of debt off? That debt was being called in and the club would of went tits up.

 

Who ran that debt up and put us in that situation?

 

Lets get a few things straight. We had £60-70m of long-term debt that wasn't on demand- it was in place (IIRC) until 2014. It only had to be repaid because the club was sold.

 

So in other words, it had to be repaid.

 

Who put that debt there? The previous board, as they installed 15,000 extra seats and more corporate boxes, which generated more revenue than the cost of repaying the debt- ie enhancing overall profit for the club.

 

So you should really be lavising praise. It was a very good deal.

 

The overdraft, not quite so much.

 

The ground additions were to be paid off £4.5m a year until 2016. By 2007, prior to Ashely buying the club they were already paying £7.3m in interest alone, almost 40% of which had nothing to do with the stadium enhancements, and in fact the debt grew wildly despite your claim of additional revenue from the addition of seats and corporate boxes. The net debt in 2007 was £70m, the interest payable on top of that figure. The figure had increased from 38 million just two years before, well after all of the stadium enhancements were completed and the associated repayment was finalised (payable until 2016).

 

The prevailing truth of the finances of the club seem to be that we were poorly run prior to Mike Ashley buying the club, and we're poorly run now. The club deserves to be in a much worse position than we are now as a result of the recent mismanagement by Mike Ashley and Derek Llambias, but despite this we've somehow found ourselves in a relatively strong financial position in comparison to other mid table clubs. This is largely by virtue of our much larger stadium, attendance and profile which facilitates a higher turnover. There has been some good things done by the current owner, namely the reigning in of the excessive wage bill (largely forced upon him by relegation) and the reduction in general running costs. Undoubtedly a lot of damage has been done to the Newcastle United brand since a few years prior to Mike Ashley, but Ashley not only took the ball and ran with it, he blasted it to a new level.

Edited March 30, 2011 by OzToonFan

[Guest Your Name Here]

I think some people are forgetting that he came in and paid over 100mil of debt off? That debt was being called in and the club would of went tits up.

 

Who ran that debt up and put us in that situation?

 

If the club had been ran better under FFS and SJR there would not of been that debt to clear nor a real reason to sell the club.

 

Yes he was naive and stupid not doing due diligence but he has done whats needed doing to stabilise us again financially.

 

I cant see how thats a bad thing at all.

 

He now just needs to invest sensibly and we can progress on the pitch too.

He didn’t pay off the debt. He just changed who it was owed to. The club owes more money now than it has at any time in its history.

 

How much do you think a debt free NUFC firmly established in the PL is worth?

[Deano 0]

I think some people are forgetting that he came in and paid over 100mil of debt off? That debt was being called in and the club would of went tits up.

 

Who ran that debt up and put us in that situation?

 

If the club had been ran better under FFS and SJR there would not of been that debt to clear nor a real reason to sell the club.

 

Yes he was naive and stupid not doing due diligence but he has done whats needed doing to stabilise us again financially.

 

I cant see how thats a bad thing at all.

 

He now just needs to invest sensibly and we can progress on the pitch too.

He didn’t pay off the debt. He just changed who it was owed to. The club owes more money now than it has at any time in its history.

 

How much do you think a debt free NUFC firmly established in the PL is worth?

 

100mil

[Guest Your Name Here]

I think some people are forgetting that he came in and paid over 100mil of debt off? That debt was being called in and the club would of went tits up.

 

Who ran that debt up and put us in that situation?

 

Lets get a few things straight. We had £60-70m of long-term debt that wasn't on demand- it was in place (IIRC) until 2014. It only had to be repaid because the club was sold.

 

So in other words, it had to be repaid.

 

Who put that debt there? The previous board, as they installed 15,000 extra seats and more corporate boxes, which generated more revenue than the cost of repaying the debt- ie enhancing overall profit for the club.

 

So you should really be lavising praise. It was a very good deal.

 

The overdraft, not quite so much.

 

The ground additions were to be paid off £4.5m a year until 2016. By 2007, prior to Ashely buying the club they were already paying £7.3m in interest alone, almost 40% of which had nothing to do with the stadium enhancements, and in fact the debt grew wildly despite your claim of additional revenue from the addition of seats and corporate boxes. The net debt in 2007 was £70m, the interest payable on top of that figure. The figure had increased from 38 million just two years before, well after all of the stadium enhancements were completed and the associated repayment was finalised (payable until 2016).

 

The prevailing truth of the finances of the club seem to be that we were poorly run prior to Mike Ashley buying the club, and we're poorly run now. The club deserves to be in a much worse position than we are now as a result of the recent mismanagement by Mike Ashley and Derek Llambias, but despite this we've somehow found ourselves in a relatively strong financial position in comparison to other mid table clubs. This is largely by virtue of our much larger stadium, attendance and profile which facilitates a higher turnover. There has been some good things done by the current owner, namely the reigning in of the excessive wage bill (largely forced upon him by relegation) and the reduction in general running costs. Undoubtedly a lot of damage has been done to the Newcastle United brand since a few years prior to Mike Ashley, but Ashley not only took the ball and ran with it, he blasted it to a new level.

Ashley has hidden the true cost of his many mistakes by lending the club £140m. A completely avoidable relegation cost the club something like £50m. This lost revenue alone could have paid off most of the structured debt he inherited. All the media bullshit today about our healthy financial position is based on a superficial and short term analysis. It’s going to be three or four years before we know if things have improved or if the shit hitting the fan has only been postponed.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Your Name Here

[Guest Your Name Here]

I think some people are forgetting that he came in and paid over 100mil of debt off? That debt was being called in and the club would of went tits up.

 

Who ran that debt up and put us in that situation?

 

If the club had been ran better under FFS and SJR there would not of been that debt to clear nor a real reason to sell the club.

 

Yes he was naive and stupid not doing due diligence but he has done whats needed doing to stabilise us again financially.

 

I cant see how thats a bad thing at all.

 

He now just needs to invest sensibly and we can progress on the pitch too.

He didn’t pay off the debt. He just changed who it was owed to. The club owes more money now than it has at any time in its history.

 

How much do you think a debt free NUFC firmly established in the PL is worth?

 

100mil

So paying £135m for us when we were £70m in debt was really stupid?

[OTF 7492]

Ashley has hidden the true cost of his many mistakes by lending the club £140m. A completely avoidable relegation cost the club something like £50m. This lost revenue alone could have paid off most of the structured debt he inherited. All the media bullshit today about our healthy financial position is based on a superficial and short term analysis. It’s going to be three or four years before we know if things have improved or if the shit hitting the fan has only been postponed.

 

He has had to absorb some of it through necessary loans that would otherwise have been drawing substantial amounts of interest. The total debt of the club has no doubt increased substantially, though it's obviously much better if that debt is interest free which it is currently. Ashley is in a catch-22 situation where his money is tied up in the club. If he wants to get it back he''ll have to sell the club. This won't be possible without turning the books around to be returning a profit instead of compounding losses on losses. That's what they're seemingly attempting to do, the difficult balance is trying to do that whilst maintaining and enhancing the profile and league position of the club.

 

No doubt there's elements of fudge-work in the figures, but they're yearly figures and the loss total should be accurate not allowing for any additional debt accrued to write off losses.

[dbsweeney 0]

The expectations have to be lowered because of the burden of debt left by the previous owners - you might not agree LM but they're just as much to blame for our current predicament as Ashley.

 

Unless you have a realistic suggestion as to how anyone can change that situation of course.

That simply isn’t true. £135m was a stupid price to pay for a club that was apparently about to cease to exist, and we all know why he paid way over the odds. It’s ironic a man renowned for bargain buys should get so well and truly ripped off. Ashley gambled and lost.

 

The bottom line is in close to four years the club’s revenues have dropped, attendances have dropped and its status has dropped. The only key business indicator that has gone up is the amount of money it owes, which has near enough doubled and now stands in excess of £150m. It’s a shocking state of affairs and there is only one person to blame.

 

The local media need to grow some balls and scrutinise the data, not just regurgitate the club’s absurd spin.

 

I don't get this - are you saying Ashley thought he was getting a bargain and thought he was shafting the "daft Geordies" only to find the joke was on him when the debts were revealed?

 

Nobody comes out of the mess well apart from maybe Shepherd himself who at least tried to stop the sale. The cunts who sold their shares among shite about "handing over the reigns to the right man" while sniggering behind his back about the mortgage terms and future liabilities (while their mate was seriously ill BTW) on one hand and the stupid cunt who didn't do due diligence on the other.

 

That key indicator you mention has gone from 110m to 150m and relegation is a factor in that as is falling performances all round but the idea that the extra 40m wouldn't have had to be found anyway to finance Shepherd's debt driven cash flow model is naive - especially as I doubt he would have attacked the wage bill.

 

Personally, I think that Mike Ashley wanted to look for an outlet, for want of a better word, to sit alongside his Sports Direct. A big football club, with huge support [we won't go into that I've said my bit] fitted the bill perfectly.

 

He was naive, or stupid, or both, for not doing his diligence etc. There isn't much doubt that he was shocked at the costs involved in football - naive and stupid - which wasn't what he expected at all. He has set about running it as a business as he thinks it should be run. He is well known for being a maverick sort of figure, so may even be aware now that his approach is not what went before, but isn't really bothered so long as he makes some money out of it, although there is a case for him not making money and sacrificing that if he made it up as a vehicle sitting alongside Sports Direct.

 

I'm guessing, none of us know, but I'm absolutely certain that he - now - has no intention at all of doing what is required to make it a success on the pitch and try to get the money from the Champions League because although it is a gamble, its the sort of gamble that just does not appeal to him.

 

His naivety about football, which was obvious from the very start, is unfortunate and it is us who are the ones who have to put up with the frustration of it as supporters of the club.

 

Maybe I haven't worded this perfectly, I'm sure others will have their say and expand in different ways.

 

Top post, Leazes.

[Guest Your Name Here]

Ashley has hidden the true cost of his many mistakes by lending the club £140m. A completely avoidable relegation cost the club something like £50m. This lost revenue alone could have paid off most of the structured debt he inherited. All the media bullshit today about our healthy financial position is based on a superficial and short term analysis. It’s going to be three or four years before we know if things have improved or if the shit hitting the fan has only been postponed.

 

He has had to absorb some of it through necessary loans that would otherwise have been drawing substantial amounts of interest. The total debt of the club has no doubt increased substantially, though it's obviously much better if that debt is interest free which it is currently. Ashley is in a catch-22 situation where his money is tied up in the club. If he wants to get it back he''ll have to sell the club. This won't be possible without turning the books around to be returning a profit instead of compounding losses on losses. That's what they're seemingly attempting to do, the difficult balance is trying to do that whilst maintaining and enhancing the profile and league position of the club.

 

No doubt there's elements of fudge-work in the figures, but they're yearly figures and the loss total should be accurate not allowing for any additional debt accrued to write off losses.

Unless he makes a substantial loss, which for me is the crux of the matter. He has made at least two very expensive mistakes, namely not undertaking due diligence and causing the instability that cost us our PL status. These were his mistakes and he should pay the price. However it looks like he wants the supporters to pay the price via a cost cutting program that will see minimal investment in the squad and the heritage of the club devalued. He fucks up so we have to put up with years of scraping by watching a mediocre team, play mediocre football in the happyshopper arena. Its stinks and Lambias going on about how grateful we should be rubs salt in the wounds.

 

He’s lent the club a lot of money to stop his mistakes wiping out his initial investment, not for the good of the club and not for the supporters.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Your Name Here

[OTF 7492]

He’s lent the club a lot of money to stop his mistakes wiping out his initial investment, not for the good of the club and not for the supporters.

 

Undoubtedly.

[Toonpack 9964]

Personally, I think that Mike Ashley wanted to look for an outlet, for want of a better word, to sit alongside his Sports Direct. A big football club, with huge support [we won't go into that I've said my bit] fitted the bill perfectly.

 

He was naive, or stupid, or both, for not doing his diligence etc. There isn't much doubt that he was shocked at the costs involved in football - naive and stupid - which wasn't what he expected at all. He has set about running it as a business as he thinks it should be run. He is well known for being a maverick sort of figure, so may even be aware now that his approach is not what went before, but isn't really bothered so long as he makes some money out of it, although there is a case for him not making money and sacrificing that if he made it up as a vehicle sitting alongside Sports Direct.

 

I'm guessing, none of us know, but I'm absolutely certain that he - now - has no intention at all of doing what is required to make it a success on the pitch and try to get the money from the Champions League because although it is a gamble, its the sort of gamble that just does not appeal to him.

 

His naivety about football, which was obvious from the very start, is unfortunate and it is us who are the ones who have to put up with the frustration of it as supporters of the club.

 

Maybe I haven't worded this perfectly, I'm sure others will have their say and expand in different ways.

 

 

The moon's blue, a Leazes post I agree with, almost.

 

The Champions league (at this time) would need a financial gamble that even he isn't rich enough to go at. To be honest, our best bet of C/L ever again is Platini's new rules, if fully enforced (which I doubt) because then, our "size" would have a material effect again.

[Matt 0]

I think some people are forgetting that he came in and paid over 100mil of debt off? That debt was being called in and the club would of went tits up.

 

Who ran that debt up and put us in that situation?

 

Lets get a few things straight. We had £60-70m of long-term debt that wasn't on demand- it was in place (IIRC) until 2014. It only had to be repaid because the club was sold.

 

So in other words, it had to be repaid.

 

Who put that debt there? The previous board, as they installed 15,000 extra seats and more corporate boxes, which generated more revenue than the cost of repaying the debt- ie enhancing overall profit for the club.

 

So you should really be lavising praise. It was a very good deal.

 

The overdraft, not quite so much.

 

The ground additions were to be paid off £4.5m a year until 2016. By 2007, prior to Ashely buying the club they were already paying £7.3m in interest alone, almost 40% of which had nothing to do with the stadium enhancements, and in fact the debt grew wildly despite your claim of additional revenue from the addition of seats and corporate boxes. The net debt in 2007 was £70m, the interest payable on top of that figure. The figure had increased from 38 million just two years before, well after all of the stadium enhancements were completed and the associated repayment was finalised (payable until 2016).

 

I don't disagree- but I think it's a common misconception that we were in a financial position because of our debt level and therefore being debt-free is automatically better than having any sort of debt. It's important to split up the stable, sensible funding for the ground expansion (a tangible, long-term investment) and the overdraft and trade creditors run up through the transfers and wage bill.

 

It's not the debt, it's the type of debt and what it had been used for that did for us.

 

I'm not denying the club was badly run- we went from something like +20 to -20 net cash in that period (which would broadly tie in with the net debt movement). I remember posting on here with alarm over what had happened to our cash level and that it pointed in only one direction.

[Rob W 0]

Personally, I think that Mike Ashley wanted to look for an outlet, for want of a better word, to sit alongside his Sports Direct. A big football club, with huge support [we won't go into that I've said my bit] fitted the bill perfectly.

 

He was naive, or stupid, or both, for not doing his diligence etc. There isn't much doubt that he was shocked at the costs involved in football - naive and stupid - which wasn't what he expected at all. He has set about running it as a business as he thinks it should be run. He is well known for being a maverick sort of figure, so may even be aware now that his approach is not what went before, but isn't really bothered so long as he makes some money out of it, although there is a case for him not making money and sacrificing that if he made it up as a vehicle sitting alongside Sports Direct.

 

I'm guessing, none of us know, but I'm absolutely certain that he - now - has no intention at all of doing what is required to make it a success on the pitch and try to get the money from the Champions League because although it is a gamble, its the sort of gamble that just does not appeal to him.

 

His naivety about football, which was obvious from the very start, is unfortunate and it is us who are the ones who have to put up with the frustration of it as supporters of the club.

 

Maybe I haven't worded this perfectly, I'm sure others will have their say and expand in different ways.

 

 

The moon's blue, a Leazes post I agree with, almost.

 

The Champions league (at this time) would need a financial gamble that even he isn't rich enough to go at. To be honest, our best bet of C/L ever again is Platini's new rules, if fully enforced (which I doubt) because then, our "size" would have a material effect again.

 

 

 

have to agree - he's hanging on in the hope that things will turn round in the Global Economy and some mad foreigner will bail him out for what he has put in

 

And Mike Ashley has the same plan

[LeazesMag 0]

Personally, I think that Mike Ashley wanted to look for an outlet, for want of a better word, to sit alongside his Sports Direct. A big football club, with huge support [we won't go into that I've said my bit] fitted the bill perfectly.

 

He was naive, or stupid, or both, for not doing his diligence etc. There isn't much doubt that he was shocked at the costs involved in football - naive and stupid - which wasn't what he expected at all. He has set about running it as a business as he thinks it should be run. He is well known for being a maverick sort of figure, so may even be aware now that his approach is not what went before, but isn't really bothered so long as he makes some money out of it, although there is a case for him not making money and sacrificing that if he made it up as a vehicle sitting alongside Sports Direct.

 

I'm guessing, none of us know, but I'm absolutely certain that he - now - has no intention at all of doing what is required to make it a success on the pitch and try to get the money from the Champions League because although it is a gamble, its the sort of gamble that just does not appeal to him.

 

His naivety about football, which was obvious from the very start, is unfortunate and it is us who are the ones who have to put up with the frustration of it as supporters of the club.

 

Maybe I haven't worded this perfectly, I'm sure others will have their say and expand in different ways.

 

 

The moon's blue, a Leazes post I agree with, almost.

 

The Champions league (at this time) would need a financial gamble that even he isn't rich enough to go at. To be honest, our best bet of C/L ever again is Platini's new rules, if fully enforced (which I doubt) because then, our "size" would have a material effect again.

 

you're backtracking, as I knew you - and others - would. And I've been saying that for over 3 years. It is no excuse for selling our best players to clubs we should be aspiring to get back above, and other clubs who are smaller than us and others who are nothing clubs, which is what has happened since this tosspot bought the club, and people like you have defended him because you have your head up your arse about his predecessors.