Big Clubs etc

[Craig 6700]

Obviously support comes into it, but having thousands of people watching teams win nothing isn't going to make the club bigger is it?

 

I can see this becoming difficult.

 

How do you define it ?

 

There is an obvious link between acting big and becoming successful, attracting supporters back, and being seen to be big by others as a result.

 

The problem is, if a club acts like a small club [like we are doing], does it mean they aren't a big club anymore ? Or is it just that you are a big club being run badly ?

 

That's the thing though, people not going to matches isn't just about success on the field

 

Lots of our fans have stopped going because they aren't happy with how the club is being run, sick of having to get by and then there was the 2 failed stadium moves (1 of which none of us wanted) I think we'll get less season ticket sales next season because people seeing that we are being left behind if we don't get investment so are boycotting

 

Newcastle are obviously a big club and have a fantastic support, you could see that with the protests etc but I don't think support equals everything

 

I have to disagree with your first comment. Success on the pitch is everything. Win and your crowds go up, at any level of the game, at NUFC a winning team is a full house.

 

2nd sentence - most people have forgotten about those stadium moves now. Personally, I think we should have moved to Leazes Park and forced the issue more. We will get less season ticket renewals next season because the team is struggling on the pitch and there is little optimism for improvement.

 

3rd sentence - I don't think any club would fill a 52000 stadium anywhere in the world having put up with what we have for so long to be honest, although it is going down now, it will still hover between 30-40,000 even when the damage inflicted by Mike Ashley increases, and no club in the world would get that either, especially when even a few wins in a lower league will send it back near 50,000 again.

 

Just my opinions of course.

Disagree with that like. There are more than enough dafties like me to keep going. We averaged 44,000 in the Championship playing the likes of Doncaster and Scunthorpe every week. The next few years we will come out of the recession and people will have more money. We were in the bottom half of the table largely from 2004 to 2009 and 90% of home games sold out. I think economic conditions are having an impact, but we're still averaging nearly 48,000 fans, and how many times have we been on live telly?? A fuckin lot. We will never go under 40,000 in the Premiership, and even if Ashley is here the next five years, sadly it will have no impact on attendances. This season the games have been fucking great you don't know what will happen, the gates have been going up all season, and we'll have even more season ticket holders next season, particularly if there's a few decent signings in the summer. Don't underestimate how daft NUFC fans are. There isn't a parallel to Newcastle United's support in world sport, anyone that says Man City is a mug, they all fucked off under Pearce, we stayed and faced the Championship music.

 

As for big club. Course we're a big club. I find it insulting to be compared to Aston Villa. The muddy area of what a big club comes when you're comparing sizes. To me it's fanbase. You can't pin it all down to history. Man Utd are 10 times bigger than Liverpool in my eyes, but have slightly fewer trophies, and I can think of parallel examples with certain clubs and us. If you don't have more fans able and willing to go to support the team than Newcastle, you're not a bigger club than us, and only Man Utd and Arsenal have, Liverpool have many more when they're doing well. All of the rest well it's just muddy water. A debate no one can ever win, but I think we're an important club which the Premiership can't do without. There are only a few clubs you can say that about. Not one person would miss Villa, even if they were gone 10 years you'd just think so fuck. Everyone missed us, even if they don't admit it, they did, BBC certainly did.

 

Stevie.......before Keegan came back to Newcastle, our crowds were around 20,000 and for periods prior to that, sub 20,000.

 

I know things were different then, but a prolonged period of apathy [which will happen if Ashley stays long term IMO] and the crowds and interest that have been generated will ebb away to low levels again, maybe not as low as this, but around 30,000 or less on occasions, however the team only needs to win a few games in any division and it would hit close to the 40,000 mark even for a temp period.

 

We will see. I do agree with you about us being unique in sport, because we are. But no club would even get those gates above, time has shown it, everybody in football who knows anything about the game knows NUFC are the sleeping giant of world football. The Keegan years showed it, if we had had a 70,000 stadium like the Millenium we would fill it with local support alone.

 

Anyway, as you say its a debate nobody can win and hopefully he will sell to somebody who understands football business before things get much worse.

I went to games from 1985 onwards. Between 1976 and 1993 we finished in the top half of the table once, and spent 10 of those seasons in the second tier.

 

I remember the game before Keegan came actually was a FA Cup Replay at home to Bournemouth and there were 27,000 people there, and yes we fuckin lost, on pens, O'Brien nearly smashing the Scoreboard with his. Before Keegan came league wise there was an official boycot by the USFC, I remember one game against Oxford there were as many outside as inside. Our average in 1990 was 22,000 in D2, 17,000 in 1991 at the height of the boycot, and 21,000 in 92 when we finished TWENTY FIRST IN DIVISION TWO. All this at a time when football wasn't fashionable at all, our gates near the bottom of D2 were still among the best in the country. Since 93 and especially Euro 96 football became cool, a lot more OC's go to games, far, far, far more women, you even get ethnic minorities going so the fanbase has changed in terms of profile slightly and not only that probably doubled.

 

I will pay £100 to a charity of your choice should we ever get a gate under 40,000 in the Premiership, it's just not going to happen. I don't know one person who is jacking it next season, but I know plenty who are coming back.

NB. that Bournemouth game got an inflated gate because the first game was abandoned by fog and because they wouldn’t refund our money they made the re-arranged game half price — iirc, which bumped the attendance.

wasn’t that the game where Alan Thompson got sent off for that disgraceful 2 footed stamp? — which is one of the worst things I’ve seen a footballer do to another player.

You are right but there was 26,000 at the abandoned game.

 

Aye re Thompson. Keegan got rid right after that game, he never played again. Right in front of me that was in the East Stand benches that night.

didn’t know it was 26,000, I thought it was a lot less.

 

Ardiles was the manager at the time and said he would never play Thompson again after that.

Aye but Keegan was at the game, he was working in a PR capacity if you remember.

 

It wasn't that game. Was earlier in the season IIRC. Pretty sure it was Blackburn at home (Again, fuck knows why I remember that).

 

EDIT: Actually I think KK wrote about it in his autobiography. Must check up on that.

[Craig 6700]

I remember the game before Keegan came actually was a FA Cup Replay at home to Bournemouth and there were 27,000 people there, and yes we fuckin lost, on pens, O'Brien nearly smashing the Scoreboard with his.

 

I was there Only time I ever stood in the Leazes end. What a fucking depressing evening that was. Didn't Kevin Bond score for them that night too?

Can't remember but he played for them. I remember Efan Ekoku being fast as fuck and giving our defence a torrid time.

 

Rusty Lee would have given our defence a fucking torrid time man, we were garbage!

[McFaul 35]

Obviously support comes into it, but having thousands of people watching teams win nothing isn't going to make the club bigger is it?

 

I can see this becoming difficult.

 

How do you define it ?

 

There is an obvious link between acting big and becoming successful, attracting supporters back, and being seen to be big by others as a result.

 

The problem is, if a club acts like a small club [like we are doing], does it mean they aren't a big club anymore ? Or is it just that you are a big club being run badly ?

 

That's the thing though, people not going to matches isn't just about success on the field

 

Lots of our fans have stopped going because they aren't happy with how the club is being run, sick of having to get by and then there was the 2 failed stadium moves (1 of which none of us wanted) I think we'll get less season ticket sales next season because people seeing that we are being left behind if we don't get investment so are boycotting

 

Newcastle are obviously a big club and have a fantastic support, you could see that with the protests etc but I don't think support equals everything

 

I have to disagree with your first comment. Success on the pitch is everything. Win and your crowds go up, at any level of the game, at NUFC a winning team is a full house.

 

2nd sentence - most people have forgotten about those stadium moves now. Personally, I think we should have moved to Leazes Park and forced the issue more. We will get less season ticket renewals next season because the team is struggling on the pitch and there is little optimism for improvement.

 

3rd sentence - I don't think any club would fill a 52000 stadium anywhere in the world having put up with what we have for so long to be honest, although it is going down now, it will still hover between 30-40,000 even when the damage inflicted by Mike Ashley increases, and no club in the world would get that either, especially when even a few wins in a lower league will send it back near 50,000 again.

 

Just my opinions of course.

Disagree with that like. There are more than enough dafties like me to keep going. We averaged 44,000 in the Championship playing the likes of Doncaster and Scunthorpe every week. The next few years we will come out of the recession and people will have more money. We were in the bottom half of the table largely from 2004 to 2009 and 90% of home games sold out. I think economic conditions are having an impact, but we're still averaging nearly 48,000 fans, and how many times have we been on live telly?? A fuckin lot. We will never go under 40,000 in the Premiership, and even if Ashley is here the next five years, sadly it will have no impact on attendances. This season the games have been fucking great you don't know what will happen, the gates have been going up all season, and we'll have even more season ticket holders next season, particularly if there's a few decent signings in the summer. Don't underestimate how daft NUFC fans are. There isn't a parallel to Newcastle United's support in world sport, anyone that says Man City is a mug, they all fucked off under Pearce, we stayed and faced the Championship music.

 

As for big club. Course we're a big club. I find it insulting to be compared to Aston Villa. The muddy area of what a big club comes when you're comparing sizes. To me it's fanbase. You can't pin it all down to history. Man Utd are 10 times bigger than Liverpool in my eyes, but have slightly fewer trophies, and I can think of parallel examples with certain clubs and us. If you don't have more fans able and willing to go to support the team than Newcastle, you're not a bigger club than us, and only Man Utd and Arsenal have, Liverpool have many more when they're doing well. All of the rest well it's just muddy water. A debate no one can ever win, but I think we're an important club which the Premiership can't do without. There are only a few clubs you can say that about. Not one person would miss Villa, even if they were gone 10 years you'd just think so fuck. Everyone missed us, even if they don't admit it, they did, BBC certainly did.

 

Stevie.......before Keegan came back to Newcastle, our crowds were around 20,000 and for periods prior to that, sub 20,000.

 

I know things were different then, but a prolonged period of apathy [which will happen if Ashley stays long term IMO] and the crowds and interest that have been generated will ebb away to low levels again, maybe not as low as this, but around 30,000 or less on occasions, however the team only needs to win a few games in any division and it would hit close to the 40,000 mark even for a temp period.

 

We will see. I do agree with you about us being unique in sport, because we are. But no club would even get those gates above, time has shown it, everybody in football who knows anything about the game knows NUFC are the sleeping giant of world football. The Keegan years showed it, if we had had a 70,000 stadium like the Millenium we would fill it with local support alone.

 

Anyway, as you say its a debate nobody can win and hopefully he will sell to somebody who understands football business before things get much worse.

I went to games from 1985 onwards. Between 1976 and 1993 we finished in the top half of the table once, and spent 10 of those seasons in the second tier.

 

I remember the game before Keegan came actually was a FA Cup Replay at home to Bournemouth and there were 27,000 people there, and yes we fuckin lost, on pens, O'Brien nearly smashing the Scoreboard with his. Before Keegan came league wise there was an official boycot by the USFC, I remember one game against Oxford there were as many outside as inside. Our average in 1990 was 22,000 in D2, 17,000 in 1991 at the height of the boycot, and 21,000 in 92 when we finished TWENTY FIRST IN DIVISION TWO. All this at a time when football wasn't fashionable at all, our gates near the bottom of D2 were still among the best in the country. Since 93 and especially Euro 96 football became cool, a lot more OC's go to games, far, far, far more women, you even get ethnic minorities going so the fanbase has changed in terms of profile slightly and not only that probably doubled.

 

I will pay £100 to a charity of your choice should we ever get a gate under 40,000 in the Premiership, it's just not going to happen. I don't know one person who is jacking it next season, but I know plenty who are coming back.

NB. that Bournemouth game got an inflated gate because the first game was abandoned by fog and because they wouldn’t refund our money they made the re-arranged game half price — iirc, which bumped the attendance.

wasn’t that the game where Alan Thompson got sent off for that disgraceful 2 footed stamp? — which is one of the worst things I’ve seen a footballer do to another player.

You are right but there was 26,000 at the abandoned game.

 

Aye re Thompson. Keegan got rid right after that game, he never played again. Right in front of me that was in the East Stand benches that night.

didn’t know it was 26,000, I thought it was a lot less.

 

Ardiles was the manager at the time and said he would never play Thompson again after that.

Aye but Keegan was at the game, he was working in a PR capacity if you remember.

 

It wasn't that game. Was earlier in the season IIRC. Pretty sure it was Blackburn at home (Again, fuck knows why I remember that).

 

EDIT: Actually I think KK wrote about it in his autobiography. Must check up on that.

Was 100% the Bournemouth game he did that two footed tackle remember it vividly.

[Craig 6700]

Aye the two footed tackle was then - remember it myself. I'm talking about KK's PR job which was months before he took over. It was around October '91 ish. Almost certain it was at the Blackburn home match.

[McFaul 35]

Aye the two footed tackle was then - remember it myself. I'm talking about KK's PR job which was months before he took over. It was around October '91 ish. Almost certain it was at the Blackburn home match.

You might be right actually, seem to remember Dalglish had just taken over at Blackburn he'd only been there a matter of weeks.

[Craig 6700]

Aye the two footed tackle was then - remember it myself. I'm talking about KK's PR job which was months before he took over. It was around October '91 ish. Almost certain it was at the Blackburn home match.

You might be right actually, seem to remember Dalglish had just taken over at Blackburn he'd only been there a matter of weeks.

 

Pretty sure it's talked about in his book - I'll dig it out and check.

[Sima 0]

Was that Bournemouth game where it was ridiculously foggy? Or was that the first game that got abandoned?

Edited March 22, 2011 by Sima

[Craig 6700]

Was that Bournemouth game where it was ridiculously foggy? Or was that the first game that got abandoned?

 

Aye I think so although I remember a few games around that time which were called off due to fog. Wasn't one against Oxford?

 

Remember one of the games I was sat in the East benches and at half time the linesman ran over, stood on the line waving his flag to see if he could be seen from the other side. All of us behind him waving like fucking crazy too as if it was going to make a difference

 

Remember another one (might have been the same game) where they put the announcement to the stewards to take their position on the gates through the PA system by mistake instead of their radios. Everyone knew the game was about to be abandoned and the atmosphere was fucking horrendous.

[McFaul 35]

Was that Bournemouth game where it was ridiculously foggy? Or was that the first game that got abandoned?

Fog caused one to be abandoned, and when it was replayed it was foggy again but no where near as bad. Pretty sure the game was on Sky as well, or BSB one of the two.

[Rhys1879SAFC 0]

Obviously support comes into it, but having thousands of people watching teams win nothing isn't going to make the club bigger is it?

 

I can see this becoming difficult.

 

How do you define it ?

 

There is an obvious link between acting big and becoming successful, attracting supporters back, and being seen to be big by others as a result.

 

The problem is, if a club acts like a small club [like we are doing], does it mean they aren't a big club anymore ? Or is it just that you are a big club being run badly ?

 

That's the thing though, people not going to matches isn't just about success on the field

 

Lots of our fans have stopped going because they aren't happy with how the club is being run, sick of having to get by and then there was the 2 failed stadium moves (1 of which none of us wanted) I think we'll get less season ticket sales next season because people seeing that we are being left behind if we don't get investment so are boycotting

 

Newcastle are obviously a big club and have a fantastic support, you could see that with the protests etc but I don't think support equals everything

 

I have to disagree with your first comment. Success on the pitch is everything. Win and your crowds go up, at any level of the game, at NUFC a winning team is a full house.

 

2nd sentence - most people have forgotten about those stadium moves now. Personally, I think we should have moved to Leazes Park and forced the issue more. We will get less season ticket renewals next season because the team is struggling on the pitch and there is little optimism for improvement.

 

3rd sentence - I don't think any club would fill a 52000 stadium anywhere in the world having put up with what we have for so long to be honest, although it is going down now, it will still hover between 30-40,000 even when the damage inflicted by Mike Ashley increases, and no club in the world would get that either, especially when even a few wins in a lower league will send it back near 50,000 again.

 

Just my opinions of course.

 

Oh, and what have you been through? One relegation in 20 years? A few Champions League campaigns here, a few UEFA Cup runs there, a couple of FA Cup finals thrown in for good measure.

 

I worship at the feet of 1 relegation in 20 years you lucky lucky lucky bastards.

 

I don't get all this shite about Newcastle fans being long suffering, we're the ones who have been long suffering, staying up this season will see us reach our 5th successive top flight appearance for only the 2nd time in half a century. We finished with the record low for points in 2003 and then broke it in 2006. We've been through more shit than enough and to still get 40,000 coming through the turnstiles most weeks is fantastic, its what makes Sunderland a big club.

[Guest]

Sunderland a big club

[Craig 6700]

Howay man Rhys, hoy the coi carp back you miserly bastards should be happy enough with sprats seeing as you're so badly done to....

 

Dear me

[LeazesMag 0]

Obviously support comes into it, but having thousands of people watching teams win nothing isn't going to make the club bigger is it?

 

I can see this becoming difficult.

 

How do you define it ?

 

There is an obvious link between acting big and becoming successful, attracting supporters back, and being seen to be big by others as a result.

 

The problem is, if a club acts like a small club [like we are doing], does it mean they aren't a big club anymore ? Or is it just that you are a big club being run badly ?

 

That's the thing though, people not going to matches isn't just about success on the field

 

Lots of our fans have stopped going because they aren't happy with how the club is being run, sick of having to get by and then there was the 2 failed stadium moves (1 of which none of us wanted) I think we'll get less season ticket sales next season because people seeing that we are being left behind if we don't get investment so are boycotting

 

Newcastle are obviously a big club and have a fantastic support, you could see that with the protests etc but I don't think support equals everything

 

I have to disagree with your first comment. Success on the pitch is everything. Win and your crowds go up, at any level of the game, at NUFC a winning team is a full house.

 

2nd sentence - most people have forgotten about those stadium moves now. Personally, I think we should have moved to Leazes Park and forced the issue more. We will get less season ticket renewals next season because the team is struggling on the pitch and there is little optimism for improvement.

 

3rd sentence - I don't think any club would fill a 52000 stadium anywhere in the world having put up with what we have for so long to be honest, although it is going down now, it will still hover between 30-40,000 even when the damage inflicted by Mike Ashley increases, and no club in the world would get that either, especially when even a few wins in a lower league will send it back near 50,000 again.

 

Just my opinions of course.

 

Oh, and what have you been through? One relegation in 20 years? A few Champions League campaigns here, a few UEFA Cup runs there, a couple of FA Cup finals thrown in for good measure.

 

I worship at the feet of 1 relegation in 20 years you lucky lucky lucky bastards.

 

I don't get all this shite about Newcastle fans being long suffering, we're the ones who have been long suffering, staying up this season will see us reach our 5th successive top flight appearance for only the 2nd time in half a century. We finished with the record low for points in 2003 and then broke it in 2006. We've been through more shit than enough and to still get 40,000 coming through the turnstiles most weeks is fantastic, its what makes Sunderland a big club.

 

As it happens, I agree with you, if you are talking from recent memory, which you are. It is others who you need to convince the last 2 decades [most of it] have been so bad. I am quite aware we had one of the best clubs in the country which is when this level of support was built up.

 

Unfortunately, when I try to tell this to a few of who are supposedly NUFC fans, like me, they don't believe a word I say and insist we were run by people who were shit, robbed the club blind, were only in it for what they could get, and only did what is our divine right by qualifying for europe and buying top players. What the fuck they think Mike Ashley is up to, when they defend him until they are blue in the face, only they will know.

 

The culprits are obvious, in fact one of them has also replied to you, and another is allegedly his dad.

[Guest]

Obviously support comes into it, but having thousands of people watching teams win nothing isn't going to make the club bigger is it?

 

I can see this becoming difficult.

 

How do you define it ?

 

There is an obvious link between acting big and becoming successful, attracting supporters back, and being seen to be big by others as a result.

 

The problem is, if a club acts like a small club [like we are doing], does it mean they aren't a big club anymore ? Or is it just that you are a big club being run badly ?

 

That's the thing though, people not going to matches isn't just about success on the field

 

Lots of our fans have stopped going because they aren't happy with how the club is being run, sick of having to get by and then there was the 2 failed stadium moves (1 of which none of us wanted) I think we'll get less season ticket sales next season because people seeing that we are being left behind if we don't get investment so are boycotting

 

Newcastle are obviously a big club and have a fantastic support, you could see that with the protests etc but I don't think support equals everything

 

I have to disagree with your first comment. Success on the pitch is everything. Win and your crowds go up, at any level of the game, at NUFC a winning team is a full house.

 

2nd sentence - most people have forgotten about those stadium moves now. Personally, I think we should have moved to Leazes Park and forced the issue more. We will get less season ticket renewals next season because the team is struggling on the pitch and there is little optimism for improvement.

 

3rd sentence - I don't think any club would fill a 52000 stadium anywhere in the world having put up with what we have for so long to be honest, although it is going down now, it will still hover between 30-40,000 even when the damage inflicted by Mike Ashley increases, and no club in the world would get that either, especially when even a few wins in a lower league will send it back near 50,000 again.

 

Just my opinions of course.

 

Oh, and what have you been through? One relegation in 20 years? A few Champions League campaigns here, a few UEFA Cup runs there, a couple of FA Cup finals thrown in for good measure.

 

I worship at the feet of 1 relegation in 20 years you lucky lucky lucky bastards.

 

I don't get all this shite about Newcastle fans being long suffering, we're the ones who have been long suffering, staying up this season will see us reach our 5th successive top flight appearance for only the 2nd time in half a century. We finished with the record low for points in 2003 and then broke it in 2006. We've been through more shit than enough and to still get 40,000 coming through the turnstiles most weeks is fantastic, its what makes Sunderland a big club.

 

As it happens, I agree with you, if you are talking from recent memory, which you are. It is others who you need to convince the last 2 decades [most of it] have been so bad. I am quite aware we had one of the best clubs in the country which is when this level of support was built up.

 

Unfortunately, when I try to tell this to a few of who are supposedly NUFC fans, like me, they don't believe a word I say and insist we were run by people who were shit, robbed the club blind, were only in it for what they could get, and only did what is our divine right by qualifying for europe and buying top players. What the fuck they think Mike Ashley is up to, when they defend him until they are blue in the face, only they will know.

 

The culprits are obvious, in fact one of them has also replied to you, and another is allegedly his dad.

 

 

 

OMG THATS SOOOOOOOOOOO HILARIOUS LOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[McFaul 35]

Obviously support comes into it, but having thousands of people watching teams win nothing isn't going to make the club bigger is it?

 

I can see this becoming difficult.

 

How do you define it ?

 

There is an obvious link between acting big and becoming successful, attracting supporters back, and being seen to be big by others as a result.

 

The problem is, if a club acts like a small club [like we are doing], does it mean they aren't a big club anymore ? Or is it just that you are a big club being run badly ?

 

That's the thing though, people not going to matches isn't just about success on the field

 

Lots of our fans have stopped going because they aren't happy with how the club is being run, sick of having to get by and then there was the 2 failed stadium moves (1 of which none of us wanted) I think we'll get less season ticket sales next season because people seeing that we are being left behind if we don't get investment so are boycotting

 

Newcastle are obviously a big club and have a fantastic support, you could see that with the protests etc but I don't think support equals everything

 

I have to disagree with your first comment. Success on the pitch is everything. Win and your crowds go up, at any level of the game, at NUFC a winning team is a full house.

 

2nd sentence - most people have forgotten about those stadium moves now. Personally, I think we should have moved to Leazes Park and forced the issue more. We will get less season ticket renewals next season because the team is struggling on the pitch and there is little optimism for improvement.

 

3rd sentence - I don't think any club would fill a 52000 stadium anywhere in the world having put up with what we have for so long to be honest, although it is going down now, it will still hover between 30-40,000 even when the damage inflicted by Mike Ashley increases, and no club in the world would get that either, especially when even a few wins in a lower league will send it back near 50,000 again.

 

Just my opinions of course.

 

Oh, and what have you been through? One relegation in 20 years? A few Champions League campaigns here, a few UEFA Cup runs there, a couple of FA Cup finals thrown in for good measure.

 

I worship at the feet of 1 relegation in 20 years you lucky lucky lucky bastards.

 

I don't get all this shite about Newcastle fans being long suffering, we're the ones who have been long suffering, staying up this season will see us reach our 5th successive top flight appearance for only the 2nd time in half a century. We finished with the record low for points in 2003 and then broke it in 2006. We've been through more shit than enough and to still get 40,000 coming through the turnstiles most weeks is fantastic, its what makes Sunderland a big club.

 

As it happens, I agree with you, if you are talking from recent memory, which you are. It is others who you need to convince the last 2 decades [most of it] have been so bad. I am quite aware we had one of the best clubs in the country which is when this level of support was built up.

 

Unfortunately, when I try to tell this to a few of who are supposedly NUFC fans, like me, they don't believe a word I say and insist we were run by people who were shit, robbed the club blind, were only in it for what they could get, and only did what is our divine right by qualifying for europe and buying top players. What the fuck they think Mike Ashley is up to, when they defend him until they are blue in the face, only they will know.

 

The culprits are obvious, in fact one of them has also replied to you, and another is allegedly his dad.

That's just wrong that like. Our support would be the same as it is now, with or without Keegan or anyone else give or take 5,000. Every club in the country had their gates double regardless of success over a 10 year period. Even Man Utd. Keegan, The Halls and The Shepherd's largely were tremendous for the toon, but what they created wasn't the main factor in 36,000 gates then 52,000 gates, it was football culture. No one would've dreamed a club like Boro, Leicester or Derby would average 30,000 but they all did, because of the new wave of fan, women, ethnic minorities other bandwagon jumpers came from no where on the back of Sky, The Premiership and Euro 96.

 

Newcastle HAVE ALWAYS had the 3rd or 4th biggest true fanbase in England, always have had, always will have, and odd seasons of boycot people quote won't change any of it. We were the third best supported club in the country in Division Two in 1984, as we were last season in the Championship, it has nothing to do with success, lack of it or anything else.

 

Sunderland are a prime example of the new age fan in your cosy all seater stadium. Their last season at Roker Park they had a capacity of 22,500, watching Premiership football, do you know how many sell outs they had? THREE. Three years later in the Premiership they were averaging 42,000, highlighting my point the surge in attendances had everything to do with shocking (in my view) change of football culture, the mass marketing that surrounded football, and improved facilities.

 

Sunderland average 40,000 now because it's so cheap if you were on the dole you could probably afford it. At their prices we could get 80,000 regularly. Most expensive match day ticket TWENTY EIGHT QUID.

[Guest]

Obviously support comes into it, but having thousands of people watching teams win nothing isn't going to make the club bigger is it?

 

I can see this becoming difficult.

 

How do you define it ?

 

There is an obvious link between acting big and becoming successful, attracting supporters back, and being seen to be big by others as a result.

 

The problem is, if a club acts like a small club [like we are doing], does it mean they aren't a big club anymore ? Or is it just that you are a big club being run badly ?

 

That's the thing though, people not going to matches isn't just about success on the field

 

Lots of our fans have stopped going because they aren't happy with how the club is being run, sick of having to get by and then there was the 2 failed stadium moves (1 of which none of us wanted) I think we'll get less season ticket sales next season because people seeing that we are being left behind if we don't get investment so are boycotting

 

Newcastle are obviously a big club and have a fantastic support, you could see that with the protests etc but I don't think support equals everything

 

I have to disagree with your first comment. Success on the pitch is everything. Win and your crowds go up, at any level of the game, at NUFC a winning team is a full house.

 

2nd sentence - most people have forgotten about those stadium moves now. Personally, I think we should have moved to Leazes Park and forced the issue more. We will get less season ticket renewals next season because the team is struggling on the pitch and there is little optimism for improvement.

 

3rd sentence - I don't think any club would fill a 52000 stadium anywhere in the world having put up with what we have for so long to be honest, although it is going down now, it will still hover between 30-40,000 even when the damage inflicted by Mike Ashley increases, and no club in the world would get that either, especially when even a few wins in a lower league will send it back near 50,000 again.

 

Just my opinions of course.

 

Oh, and what have you been through? One relegation in 20 years? A few Champions League campaigns here, a few UEFA Cup runs there, a couple of FA Cup finals thrown in for good measure.

 

I worship at the feet of 1 relegation in 20 years you lucky lucky lucky bastards.

 

I don't get all this shite about Newcastle fans being long suffering, we're the ones who have been long suffering, staying up this season will see us reach our 5th successive top flight appearance for only the 2nd time in half a century. We finished with the record low for points in 2003 and then broke it in 2006. We've been through more shit than enough and to still get 40,000 coming through the turnstiles most weeks is fantastic, its what makes Sunderland a big club.

 

As it happens, I agree with you, if you are talking from recent memory, which you are. It is others who you need to convince the last 2 decades [most of it] have been so bad. I am quite aware we had one of the best clubs in the country which is when this level of support was built up.

 

Unfortunately, when I try to tell this to a few of who are supposedly NUFC fans, like me, they don't believe a word I say and insist we were run by people who were shit, robbed the club blind, were only in it for what they could get, and only did what is our divine right by qualifying for europe and buying top players. What the fuck they think Mike Ashley is up to, when they defend him until they are blue in the face, only they will know.

 

The culprits are obvious, in fact one of them has also replied to you, and another is allegedly his dad.

That's just wrong that like. Our support would be the same as it is now, with or without Keegan or anyone else give or take 5,000. Every club in the country had their gates double regardless of success over a 10 year period. Even Man Utd. Keegan, The Halls and The Shepherd's largely were tremendous for the toon, but what they created wasn't the main factor in 36,000 gates then 52,000 gates, it was football culture. No one would've dreamed a club like Boro, Leicester or Derby would average 30,000 but they all did, because of the new wave of fan, women, ethnic minorities other bandwagon jumpers came from no where on the back of Sky, The Premiership and Euro 96.

 

Newcastle HAVE ALWAYS had the 3rd or 4th biggest true fanbase in England, always have had, always will have, and odd seasons of boycot people quote won't change any of it. We were the third best supported club in the country in Division Two in 1984, as we were last season in the Championship, it has nothing to do with success, lack of it or anything else.

 

Sunderland are a prime example of the new age fan in your cosy all seater stadium. Their last season at Roker Park they had a capacity of 22,500, watching Premiership football, do you know how many sell outs they had? THREE. Three years later in the Premiership they were averaging 42,000, highlighting my point the surge in attendances had everything to do with shocking (in my view) change of football culture, the mass marketing that surrounded football, and improved facilities.

 

Sunderland average 40,000 now because it's so cheap if you were on the dole you could probably afford it. At their prices we could get 80,000 regularly. Most expensive match day ticket TWENTY EIGHT QUID.

 

 

He doesn't acknowledge the 90s football boom mate as it takes away from his illusion that Freddy and The Halls did it alone in capes and an S on the chest

[DEADMAN 0]

na sunderland arnt big they just think there big with the way they go on were always the biggest in the north east fact lol

[LeazesMag 0]

Obviously support comes into it, but having thousands of people watching teams win nothing isn't going to make the club bigger is it?

 

I can see this becoming difficult.

 

How do you define it ?

 

There is an obvious link between acting big and becoming successful, attracting supporters back, and being seen to be big by others as a result.

 

The problem is, if a club acts like a small club [like we are doing], does it mean they aren't a big club anymore ? Or is it just that you are a big club being run badly ?

 

That's the thing though, people not going to matches isn't just about success on the field

 

Lots of our fans have stopped going because they aren't happy with how the club is being run, sick of having to get by and then there was the 2 failed stadium moves (1 of which none of us wanted) I think we'll get less season ticket sales next season because people seeing that we are being left behind if we don't get investment so are boycotting

 

Newcastle are obviously a big club and have a fantastic support, you could see that with the protests etc but I don't think support equals everything

 

I have to disagree with your first comment. Success on the pitch is everything. Win and your crowds go up, at any level of the game, at NUFC a winning team is a full house.

 

2nd sentence - most people have forgotten about those stadium moves now. Personally, I think we should have moved to Leazes Park and forced the issue more. We will get less season ticket renewals next season because the team is struggling on the pitch and there is little optimism for improvement.

 

3rd sentence - I don't think any club would fill a 52000 stadium anywhere in the world having put up with what we have for so long to be honest, although it is going down now, it will still hover between 30-40,000 even when the damage inflicted by Mike Ashley increases, and no club in the world would get that either, especially when even a few wins in a lower league will send it back near 50,000 again.

 

Just my opinions of course.

 

Oh, and what have you been through? One relegation in 20 years? A few Champions League campaigns here, a few UEFA Cup runs there, a couple of FA Cup finals thrown in for good measure.

 

I worship at the feet of 1 relegation in 20 years you lucky lucky lucky bastards.

 

I don't get all this shite about Newcastle fans being long suffering, we're the ones who have been long suffering, staying up this season will see us reach our 5th successive top flight appearance for only the 2nd time in half a century. We finished with the record low for points in 2003 and then broke it in 2006. We've been through more shit than enough and to still get 40,000 coming through the turnstiles most weeks is fantastic, its what makes Sunderland a big club.

 

As it happens, I agree with you, if you are talking from recent memory, which you are. It is others who you need to convince the last 2 decades [most of it] have been so bad. I am quite aware we had one of the best clubs in the country which is when this level of support was built up.

 

Unfortunately, when I try to tell this to a few of who are supposedly NUFC fans, like me, they don't believe a word I say and insist we were run by people who were shit, robbed the club blind, were only in it for what they could get, and only did what is our divine right by qualifying for europe and buying top players. What the fuck they think Mike Ashley is up to, when they defend him until they are blue in the face, only they will know.

 

The culprits are obvious, in fact one of them has also replied to you, and another is allegedly his dad.

That's just wrong that like. Our support would be the same as it is now, with or without Keegan or anyone else give or take 5,000. Every club in the country had their gates double regardless of success over a 10 year period. Even Man Utd. Keegan, The Halls and The Shepherd's largely were tremendous for the toon, but what they created wasn't the main factor in 36,000 gates then 52,000 gates, it was football culture. No one would've dreamed a club like Boro, Leicester or Derby would average 30,000 but they all did, because of the new wave of fan, women, ethnic minorities other bandwagon jumpers came from no where on the back of Sky, The Premiership and Euro 96.

 

Newcastle HAVE ALWAYS had the 3rd or 4th biggest true fanbase in England, always have had, always will have, and odd seasons of boycot people quote won't change any of it. We were the third best supported club in the country in Division Two in 1984, as we were last season in the Championship, it has nothing to do with success, lack of it or anything else.

 

Sunderland are a prime example of the new age fan in your cosy all seater stadium. Their last season at Roker Park they had a capacity of 22,500, watching Premiership football, do you know how many sell outs they had? THREE. Three years later in the Premiership they were averaging 42,000, highlighting my point the surge in attendances had everything to do with shocking (in my view) change of football culture, the mass marketing that surrounded football, and improved facilities.

 

Sunderland average 40,000 now because it's so cheap if you were on the dole you could probably afford it. At their prices we could get 80,000 regularly. Most expensive match day ticket TWENTY EIGHT QUID.

 

 

He doesn't acknowledge the 90s football boom mate as it takes away from his illusion that Freddy and The Halls did it alone in capes and an S on the chest

 

qualifying for the Champions League and europe more than everybody but 4 other clubs, the 5th highest league position......says you are wrong. If football was a "boom", they capitalised more than every other team bar 4.....its the same for everybody. Your man won't take advantage of the potential fanbase, any more than those who ran the club in the 60's, 70's and 80's did.

[LeazesMag 0]

Obviously support comes into it, but having thousands of people watching teams win nothing isn't going to make the club bigger is it?

 

I can see this becoming difficult.

 

How do you define it ?

 

There is an obvious link between acting big and becoming successful, attracting supporters back, and being seen to be big by others as a result.

 

The problem is, if a club acts like a small club [like we are doing], does it mean they aren't a big club anymore ? Or is it just that you are a big club being run badly ?

 

That's the thing though, people not going to matches isn't just about success on the field

 

Lots of our fans have stopped going because they aren't happy with how the club is being run, sick of having to get by and then there was the 2 failed stadium moves (1 of which none of us wanted) I think we'll get less season ticket sales next season because people seeing that we are being left behind if we don't get investment so are boycotting

 

Newcastle are obviously a big club and have a fantastic support, you could see that with the protests etc but I don't think support equals everything

 

I have to disagree with your first comment. Success on the pitch is everything. Win and your crowds go up, at any level of the game, at NUFC a winning team is a full house.

 

2nd sentence - most people have forgotten about those stadium moves now. Personally, I think we should have moved to Leazes Park and forced the issue more. We will get less season ticket renewals next season because the team is struggling on the pitch and there is little optimism for improvement.

 

3rd sentence - I don't think any club would fill a 52000 stadium anywhere in the world having put up with what we have for so long to be honest, although it is going down now, it will still hover between 30-40,000 even when the damage inflicted by Mike Ashley increases, and no club in the world would get that either, especially when even a few wins in a lower league will send it back near 50,000 again.

 

Just my opinions of course.

 

Oh, and what have you been through? One relegation in 20 years? A few Champions League campaigns here, a few UEFA Cup runs there, a couple of FA Cup finals thrown in for good measure.

 

I worship at the feet of 1 relegation in 20 years you lucky lucky lucky bastards.

 

I don't get all this shite about Newcastle fans being long suffering, we're the ones who have been long suffering, staying up this season will see us reach our 5th successive top flight appearance for only the 2nd time in half a century. We finished with the record low for points in 2003 and then broke it in 2006. We've been through more shit than enough and to still get 40,000 coming through the turnstiles most weeks is fantastic, its what makes Sunderland a big club.

 

As it happens, I agree with you, if you are talking from recent memory, which you are. It is others who you need to convince the last 2 decades [most of it] have been so bad. I am quite aware we had one of the best clubs in the country which is when this level of support was built up.

 

Unfortunately, when I try to tell this to a few of who are supposedly NUFC fans, like me, they don't believe a word I say and insist we were run by people who were shit, robbed the club blind, were only in it for what they could get, and only did what is our divine right by qualifying for europe and buying top players. What the fuck they think Mike Ashley is up to, when they defend him until they are blue in the face, only they will know.

 

The culprits are obvious, in fact one of them has also replied to you, and another is allegedly his dad.

That's just wrong that like. Our support would be the same as it is now, with or without Keegan or anyone else give or take 5,000. Every club in the country had their gates double regardless of success over a 10 year period. Even Man Utd. Keegan, The Halls and The Shepherd's largely were tremendous for the toon, but what they created wasn't the main factor in 36,000 gates then 52,000 gates, it was football culture. No one would've dreamed a club like Boro, Leicester or Derby would average 30,000 but they all did, because of the new wave of fan, women, ethnic minorities other bandwagon jumpers came from no where on the back of Sky, The Premiership and Euro 96.

 

Newcastle HAVE ALWAYS had the 3rd or 4th biggest true fanbase in England, always have had, always will have, and odd seasons of boycot people quote won't change any of it. We were the third best supported club in the country in Division Two in 1984, as we were last season in the Championship, it has nothing to do with success, lack of it or anything else.

 

Sunderland are a prime example of the new age fan in your cosy all seater stadium. Their last season at Roker Park they had a capacity of 22,500, watching Premiership football, do you know how many sell outs they had? THREE. Three years later in the Premiership they were averaging 42,000, highlighting my point the surge in attendances had everything to do with shocking (in my view) change of football culture, the mass marketing that surrounded football, and improved facilities.

 

Sunderland average 40,000 now because it's so cheap if you were on the dole you could probably afford it. At their prices we could get 80,000 regularly. Most expensive match day ticket TWENTY EIGHT QUID.

 

I don't really think we will get those crowds Stevie until we get the league positions that go with it, and we wouldn't have done in the first instance. No way of proving that I know that, but I think this coming season, you may be surprised at the drop unless something big changes within the club. We will still get big crowds relatively speaking, but not the outstanding crowds. Time will tell.

 

You must see the club is in decline though ?

[Guest]

Mental patient

[McFaul 35]

I don't really think we will get those crowds Stevie until we get the league positions that go with it, and we wouldn't have done in the first instance. No way of proving that I know that, but I think this coming season, you may be surprised at the drop unless something big changes within the club. We will still get big crowds relatively speaking, but not the outstanding crowds. Time will tell.

 

You must see the club is in decline though ?

People have been saying this for years on these boards NO here other boards, and I've been contradicting them. People said when we went 28000 would be the norm, I knew for a FACT, we wouldnt get less than 42000 on a regular basis. Our average turn oot of 44,000 is unparalleled in the modern era by any club on earth largely speaking, and to be honestly. I would say without question that is OUTSTANDING. A club nobheads class almost as big as us Leeds United get 20,000 less than that, and most of their support can remember them being English champions in 1992. Newcastle are phenomenon by any standards in any sport, in any country, in any walk of life.

 

This season and I'm repeating myself we will average 48,000 people, that is OUTSTANDING, with a bastard owner who will sell when the price is right, who makes decisions so bad it appears his sole aim is to wind the supporters up, and still we fuckin turn out. You are saying for some unknown reason our attendances will go down? I can't understand the logic, we have 40,000 daft cunts like me who have said fuck you Ashley the toon are part of our lives we're not gonna stop going. That number won't go down.

 

The club has been in decline for 7 years since we sacked Robson and replaced him with the biggest arsehole in world football. Shepherd made his mistakes, potentially could've rectified them, but the rug was taken from underneath him by that over celebrated arsehole Hall (and his son) while he was lying cabbaged in hospital with pneumonia. I don't agree that the club is in decline I think we hit rock bottom losing at Scunthorpe last season, and since then people like Kevin Nolan have helped drive the club slowly forward. We're stagnating in some regards but if you'd told me we'd have Ben Arfa here, and £35m in the bank from the sale of Carroll, 12 month ago, I'd have been questioning your sanity.

 

Our attendances will go up next season and I'm prepared to bet £200 now on that.

[CleeToonFan 1]

I don't really think we will get those crowds Stevie until we get the league positions that go with it, and we wouldn't have done in the first instance. No way of proving that I know that, but I think this coming season, you may be surprised at the drop unless something big changes within the club. We will still get big crowds relatively speaking, but not the outstanding crowds. Time will tell.

 

You must see the club is in decline though ?

People have been saying this for years on these boards NO here other boards, and I've been contradicting them. People said when we went 28000 would be the norm, I knew for a FACT, we wouldnt get less than 42000 on a regular basis. Our average turn oot of 44,000 is unparalleled in the modern era by any club on earth largely speaking, and to be honestly. I would say without question that is OUTSTANDING. A club nobheads class almost as big as us Leeds United get 20,000 less than that, and most of their support can remember them being English champions in 1992. Newcastle are phenomenon by any standards in any sport, in any country, in any walk of life.

 

This season and I'm repeating myself we will average 48,000 people, that is OUTSTANDING, with a bastard owner who will sell when the price is right, who makes decisions so bad it appears his sole aim is to wind the supporters up, and still we fuckin turn out. You are saying for some unknown reason our attendances will go down? I can't understand the logic, we have 40,000 daft cunts like me who have said fuck you Ashley the toon are part of our lives we're not gonna stop going. That number won't go down.

 

The club has been in decline for 7 years since we sacked Robson and replaced him with the biggest arsehole in world football. Shepherd made his mistakes, potentially could've rectified them, but the rug was taken from underneath him by that over celebrated arsehole Hall (and his son) while he was lying cabbaged in hospital with pneumonia. I don't agree that the club is in decline I think we hit rock bottom losing at Scunthorpe last season, and since then people like Kevin Nolan have helped drive the club slowly forward. We're stagnating in some regards but if you'd told me we'd have Ben Arfa here, and £35m in the bank from the sale of Carroll, 12 month ago, I'd have been questioning your sanity.

 

Our attendances will go up next season and I'm prepared to bet £200 now on that.

 

Couldn't agree any more with you mate, that entire post is spot on there. I'm the biggest optimist that follows Newcastle United, so i'm probably being stupidly over the top, but I can see the top 10 beckoning next season... provided we don't fuck up this year like

[carrolll40th 0]

hi lads. very interesting topic. am newish to this so plz be nice

 

in my opinion the most important factors in being a large club is fan base and history/ honours . if we were to compare Newcastle to liverpool, i would say liverpool is a much bigger club. i know alot of you aint going to be happy with me saying this but we have to face facts. Newcastle has a bigger stadium but dont have the same fan base. for me Newcastle is a national team but liverpool are a worldwide team with supporters from all round the world and most have no connection with liverpool city. they support them for footballing reasons only. apart from geordies ( and people related to the city) the fans base in england low. i live in south east england and i can count the amount of Newcastle fans i have have met in the last 5years on one hand. nearly all the people i know support liverpool, arsenal, chelsea or utd. if anyone tries to argue Newcastle have more supporters ( over all ) then liverpool then they are just blinded by love of NUFC or are just deluded. am not even going to start to compare history/ honours becasue well whats the point.

one thing i can say is Newcastle have more fanatic supporters then liverpool or any other club in england

Edited March 25, 2011 by carrolll40th

[McFaul 35]

hi lads. very interesting topic. am newish to this so plz be nice

 

in my opinion the most important factors in being a large club is fan base and history/ honours . if we were to compare Newcastle to liverpool, i would say liverpool is a much bigger club. i know alot of you aint going to be happy with me saying this but we have to face facts. Newcastle has a bigger stadium but dont have the same fan base. for me Newcastle is a national team but liverpool are a worldwide team with supporters from all round the world and most have no connection with liverpool city. they support them for footballing reasons only. apart from geordies ( and people related to the city) the fans base in england low. i live in south east england and i can count the amount of Newcastle fans i have have met in the last 5years on one hand. nearly all the people i know support liverpool, arsenal, chelsea or utd. if anyone tries to argue Newcastle have more supporters ( over all ) then liverpool then they are just blinded by love of NUFC or are just deluded. am not even going to start to compare history/ honours becasue well whats the point.

one thing i can say is Newcastle have more fanatic supporters then liverpool or any other club in england

I work in London quite a bit, see loads of toon fans, have had chance encounters with plenty too. There are more Newcastle fans in London than any other provincial club, outwith Man Utd and Liverpool. At the end of the day worldwide fanbase doesn't count when this worldwide fanbase doesn't put any money in to the club. A clubs local support is its' support as far as I'm concerned. People from around the country can class themselves as fans, and the ones who go to games ARE fans. Where Newcastle and Liverpool differ is local fanbase, when things go wrong here, we stand united. At Liverpool they just don't go, 34,000 at a few league games under Hodgson just this season. It's insulting that a Newcastle fan, albeit one who won't really understand the club, can even compare that plastic blood stained organisation to Newcastle and our fans. Worldwide support is a nonsense by the way. If Tottenham won the Champions League this year they would gain 20m new fans around the world. None of them count, and few could name more than five players. You're a fan if you go to games, or have a history of going to games even if you've made the effort to just go to 3 or 4. If not, like 99% of Liverpool fans you're not part of the true fanbase, and our true fanbase is bigger than theirs.

[Guest]

Hi toughguy