Toon scout Graham Carr scours globe for talent

[Jusoda Kid 1]

The last sentence fucks it for me.

 

Aye, I'm not sure whats quite so amazing about the owner of a football club being interested in said football club.

 

Read it again you fucking cock sucker

 

I was agreeing with you you sad little man

 

I know, I just wanted you to read it again and I bet you did, that makes you my bitch in my books.

bite

Play monkey.....PLAY

[Kid Dynamite 7025]

Good backtrack! Bet nee one can see through that one

[Kid Dynamite 7025]

I didnt say a scout didnt have tactical awareness though. Its a fundamental part of being a scout. You said that scouts have a say in team tactics and who the manager buys. Thats bullshit.

did you just say a scout having a say in who the manager buys is bullshit

 

Cheers that has really made this a good monday!

 

On a more serious note, if a scout doesn't understand our team tactics, and the manger does not discuss tactics with the scout, how can he go out and find the right players to meet the criteria. On the other side of things, scouts do not have the sole job of player recruitment, they are sent to view up and coming opposition, to advise on oppostion tactics and therefore who they think may counteract the threats of the opposition. It is ultimately the managers decision but its not like a manager goes to one game in advance and then knows exactly what he is going to do. Opposition are scouted for weeks in advance to give the manager the best opportunity of picking a team that will come out of it with a decent result. Managers rely heavily on scouts, much more heavily than on coaches at the club, they are responsible for providing the manager with enough, solid information with which he can do a good job.

 

So a scout comes back to Fergie/Wenger/Ancelotti and says this kid looks good. The manager then goes along to a couple of games himself to see what he thinks. If he's not impressed he doesn't buy him. Did you go to the Dennis Wise school of scouting!?

 

'Here Kev, look at this youtube vid, he's yours whether you want him or not!'

 

Scouts suggest players to the manager, it's up to him if he wants to buy them. I think you are seriously overestimating the input scouts have into a club. Most of them have very informal arrangements with a club anyway!

[Guest alex]

Bet nee one can see through that one either.

[manc-mag 1]

I didnt say a scout didnt have tactical awareness though. Its a fundamental part of being a scout. You said that scouts have a say in team tactics and who the manager buys. Thats bullshit.

did you just say a scout having a say in who the manager buys is bullshit

 

Cheers that has really made this a good monday!

 

On a more serious note, if a scout doesn't understand our team tactics, and the manger does not discuss tactics with the scout, how can he go out and find the right players to meet the criteria. On the other side of things, scouts do not have the sole job of player recruitment, they are sent to view up and coming opposition, to advise on oppostion tactics and therefore who they think may counteract the threats of the opposition. It is ultimately the managers decision but its not like a manager goes to one game in advance and then knows exactly what he is going to do. Opposition are scouted for weeks in advance to give the manager the best opportunity of picking a team that will come out of it with a decent result. Managers rely heavily on scouts, much more heavily than on coaches at the club, they are responsible for providing the manager with enough, solid information with which he can do a good job.

 

So a scout comes back to Fergie/Wenger/Ancelotti and says this kid looks good. The manager then goes along to a couple of games himself to see what he thinks. If he's not impressed he doesn't buy him. Did you go to the Dennis Wise school of scouting!?

 

'Here Kev, look at this youtube vid, he's yours whether you want him or not!'

 

Scouts suggest players to the manager, it's up to him if he wants to buy them. I think you are seriously overestimating the input scouts have into a club. Most of them have very informal arrangements with a club anyway!

 

I think the dynamics begin to change slightly when your main recruitment policy is acquisitions via your scouting network rather than going after established/big money transfers mind. For instance in Pardew's situation he might be told it's one of Graham's shortlist or nowt. And I can actually see that being the case.

[Kid Dynamite 7025]

Bet nee one can see through that one either.

 

Which one? Your starting to creep me out a little with your stalking of my every post Alex. You used to be one of the more interesting and insightful posters on here, it seems half your time now is spent sniping at or other people's posts without actually making a point.

[Guest alex]

Bet nee one can see through that one either.

 

Which one? Your starting to creep me out a little with your stalking of my every post Alex. You used to be one of the more interesting and insightful posters on here, it seems half your time now is spent sniping at or other people's posts without actually making a point.

You ignored the main point of his post (presumably on purpose), i.e. where he explained the input a scout has on tactics, because a scout will on many occasions go and look at a game because they're going to be the opposition soon rather than to check out a specific player with a view to buying them. And I saw through that

[GeeForce 0]

I didnt say a scout didnt have tactical awareness though. Its a fundamental part of being a scout. You said that scouts have a say in team tactics and who the manager buys. Thats bullshit.

did you just say a scout having a say in who the manager buys is bullshit

 

Cheers that has really made this a good monday!

 

On a more serious note, if a scout doesn't understand our team tactics, and the manger does not discuss tactics with the scout, how can he go out and find the right players to meet the criteria. On the other side of things, scouts do not have the sole job of player recruitment, they are sent to view up and coming opposition, to advise on oppostion tactics and therefore who they think may counteract the threats of the opposition. It is ultimately the managers decision but its not like a manager goes to one game in advance and then knows exactly what he is going to do. Opposition are scouted for weeks in advance to give the manager the best opportunity of picking a team that will come out of it with a decent result. Managers rely heavily on scouts, much more heavily than on coaches at the club, they are responsible for providing the manager with enough, solid information with which he can do a good job.

 

So a scout comes back to Fergie/Wenger/Ancelotti and says this kid looks good. The manager then goes along to a couple of games himself to see what he thinks. If he's not impressed he doesn't buy him. Did you go to the Dennis Wise school of scouting!?

 

'Here Kev, look at this youtube vid, he's yours whether you want him or not!'

 

Scouts suggest players to the manager, it's up to him if he wants to buy them. I think you are seriously overestimating the input scouts have into a club. Most of them have very informal arrangements with a club anyway!

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...-Bebe-play.html

 

Key quote here from Fergie

 

'You've got to trust your staff at times and our scout in Portugal was adamant we must do something quickly."

 

Think that proves my point!

[nortoon 0]

Seen similar behaviour from Manchester before. They had apparently been watching Mame Biram Diouf for some time. Then he scores a hat-trick in Norway and they sign him a week later before he is hyped up. Would be nice to have that sort of attitude toward players wouldnt it. They dont really need him, yet they just buy him before he gets expensive and can loan him out to blackburn etc until he comes good.

[Guest]

Maybe they're never at loggerheads and work as a team when it comes to player recruitment, where both have input and the manager having the final say. Scouts do have a say obviously, but not the final say (and geeforce didn't say they did have the final say, he just said they had a say). Selfshot69 being a twat for a change.

[Jusoda Kid 1]

Good backtrack! Bet nee one can see through that one

 

It wasn't good, it was shite because it wasn't a backtrack but I knew it would nark you.

[Phil 6]

I think the dynamics begin to change slightly when your main recruitment policy is acquisitions via your scouting network rather than going after established/big money transfers mind. For instance in Pardew's situation he might be told it's one of Graham's shortlist or nowt. And I can actually see that being the case.

 

I can't see Pardew being dictated to like that. He proper threw his toys out the pram at West Ham.

 

The rumour I heard during the Keegan scandal was the board set out player criteria - age, wage, sell-on ability etc... and Keegan ignored it putting forward players like Hypia and Gareth Barry.

 

I really don't see Pardew as a fool, he knows what he's up against. A Machiavellian summer is certainly on the card and he know it.

[Guest alex]

I'm never 100% sure as to whether or not Phil's on the wind-up.

[Happy Face 29]

http://www.nufcblog.org/2012/04/fatty-man-the-full-graham-carr-talksport-interview-transcribed/#.T3tUXzfCv0s

[Happy Face 29]

Y knaa

[rogerbarton 24]

Reading back over this, what the hell happened to that Bebe lad?!

[Besty 4]

Well, y'knaa, he was just shit, y'knaa.

[Andrew 4748]

Hes on loan at Besiktas from Man U

[rogerbarton 24]

Ha ha, I never actually saw him play. Looked it up and he's on loan there (just come back after a six month lay off) with an option to buy for €2m. They clearly decided he was nowhere near good enough...

[Andrew 4748]

he was never going to be

 

he was a bit of PR to sell on for a profit

[rogerbarton 24]

They paid £7m and are selling him for 2m though!

[Andrew 4748]

oh they did, hm, Im wrong

[aimaad22 4156]

Not sure which thread to post this in, so I just dug this one up.

Normally dont read articles of this type but this one pissed me off for some reason. Whats this guys definition of 'unknown'. By his stupid reasoning no player in Europe's major leagues is really unknown then. Also why the hell is a QPR fan so interested in our scout?

 

PREFACE: This article was written by an avid QPR fan, by the name of Nick Friend. He recently wrote a piece on Loic Remy being the most naturally gifted striker in the league, and he has since sent this piece to me for publishing. Upon reading it, I was undoubtedly shocked. While I hesitated allowing such a piece on the site, in the end, I felt it would be an exercise of considerable interest – how would you respond to this concise yet controversial critique of Graham Carr?

Good luck…

This won’t be a popular piece and I will be torn to shreds for it. I know I will. I’ll be told that my views are biased and are the result of me looking for some sort of argument. What I’ll say in return is that I’ve done my research and what I’ll say is basically nailed-on fact.

Graham Carr: this legend of the footballing world, this scouting Jesus. Is he really? Or is this just some pathetic Mike Ashley and media-led campaign in praise of a regular and ordinary scout whose job has been no better or worse than any other Premier League scouting setup.

Alan Carr’s dad joined the club following his second stint with Tottenham in 2010. In theory, he is the man responsible for every signing the club has made since the summer window of that year. Where Newcastle have finished over the past few years in totally irrelevant to what I’m arguing but I’m perfectly willing to admit that 5^th in 2011/12 was a fantastic achievement as was staying in the Champions League qualification race for as long as they did. In equal measure, 16^th last season was hardly what Alan Pardew was expected to achieve as part of his eight year deal.

Thanks to the quite astronomically mind-blowing fee that Kenny Dalglish was prepared to pay for Andy Carroll, since Carr came on board the club has recouped more than it has spent in transfers – £54m as opposed to £51m (depending on whose figures you accept). Once again though, these stats don’t interest me.

What interests and confuses me is how Graham Carr has garnered this reputation for himself as some obscure talent spotter. It couldn’t be further from the truth. Of course, he’s brought in some excellent players and he’s done a great job of persuading them to join the roller-coaster ride that is Newcastle United. Yet, that is as much down to Messrs Ashley, Pardew and, until June, Llambias.

Below is exactly what I’m talking about – every player brought into Newcastle United Football Club since Graham Carr joined.

2010/11

James Perch – hardly a masterstroke and hardly an unknown prospect. He’d just been competing in the Championship play-offs for Nottingham Forest.

Dan Gosling – big things were expected of him at Everton and he only left after failing to agree a new deal. Once again, hardly a scouting revelation.

Sol Campbell - …

Cheik Tiote – You may argue that Tiote was indeed an unknown diamond uncovered by Carr’s magical eye for talent. I would argue that, having been a key cog in a Twente side that walked the Eridivisie, having represented his country and been recommended by Steve McClaren (Twente boss at the time), this makes my point one again.

Hatem Ben Arfa – a coup, most certainly. A scouting revelation, no way. It was only Ben Arfa’s attitude and desire to remain in France that had stopped him from moving sooner. He started at Lyon before joining Marseilles so you can’t try and tell me that Graham Carr found him.

2011/12

Mehdi Abeid – the 21 year-old may yet prove me wrong and further add to Carr’s reputation. Currently on loan at Panathanaikos, Abeid joined from Lens and is yet to appear for the first team.

Sylvain Marveaux – great things were expected from Marveaux when he arrived from Rennes, having, according to Dalglish, fought off interest from Liverpool. That should have been a warning sign in itself to Newcastle fans given King Kenny’s record in the transfer market in his second spell at Liverpool. Another who has failed to deliver but also one who was never really that unknown in the first place. He appeared for France at every age group level.

Yohan Cabaye – Cabaye is an interesting one. Mention of his name amongst pundits and ‘experts’ immediately leads onto the ‘fantastic work of Graham Carr to unearth such a gem.’ Really? Before joining Newcastle, Cabaye had played 191 times for Lille and in doing so, won Ligue 1 and La Coupe de France. He had played in both the Champions League and Europa League. Most damning in evidence is that he won his first French cap whilst still a Lille player. He was in no way, shape or form an unknown gem.

Demba Ba – People conveniently forget when talking about Demba Ba that he not played for West Ham before joining Newcastle but, prior to this, had even had a medical at Stoke. He was the only bright spark in a very poor season for the Hammers. Once again, not exactly Carr uncovering a good’un.

Davide Santon – Short and to the point: he’d already represented the Azzurri and Inter Milan. Good bargain hunting but not an unknown talent.

Papiss Cisse – Cisse, contrary to popular belief, is not some late bloomer whose talent has only prevailed at Newcastle. Beforehand, he had scored 31 goals in 51 games for Freiburg in the Bundesliga – anything but an unknown quantity. Indeed, he’s fallen away recently too which might explain the lack of overtures from Germany’s bigger clubs.

Romain Amalfitano – his brother’s doing well at West Brom, but the younger Amalfitano has done nothing to justify Carr’s investment yet.

Gael Bigirimana – Bigrimana was plying his trade at Coventry, being labelled as amongst the most promising teenagers in the country before he was snapped up.

Vurnon Anita – Anita has been known to me for a long time now. A regular in Holland squads – originally as a left-back – he has been a part of Eridivisie winning squads at Ajax for years.

Curtis Good – may well prove me wrong but yet to appear for the first team.

Mathieu Debuchy – much like Cabaye, he is talked about as some sort of godsend, brought along to prove what an amazing talent spotter Graham Carr is. Well, actually, he was a key member of Lille’s Ligue 1 winning side and was named in the Ligue 1 Team of the Year for 2011-12. He even started every game at Euro 2012 where he faced England. Once again, not one of Carr’s ‘genial French signings’ that get bandied about so much.

Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa – Bizarrely, Yanga-Mbiwa was named in France’s preliminary squad for Euro 2012. My argument on the defender is slightly different though. He is more obscure than man of the other bigger money buys. Yet, from what I’ve seen, he can’t defend.

Massadio Haidara – another obscure one to Carr’s credit but like Mbiwa, doesn’t seem at Premier League level. Better known for a tackle on him than any meaningful contribution.

Moussa Sissoko – Like all the French internationals listed above, he’s hardly a revelation and had been linked to Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal and even QPR for donkeys years before joining in January.

Kevin Mbabu – yet to play for the first team so for all I know, could be better than Messi. I doubt it though.

Yoan Gouffran – an odd one: ‘a jack of all trades but a master of none’ would be my analysis. He’s very versatile without being particularly good. He’s played Champions League football for Bordeaux and has been around for ages.

2012/13

Loic Remy – he’s class as I stated in my last article. He’s also hardly a scouting masterstroke on Graham Carr’s part. Having nearly kept QPR up on his own and represented France at full international level as well as played Champions League football for Marseilles, a £2m loan was less of a gamble and more of a no-brainer.

I should make myself clear here and say that I have nothing against Graham Carr nor do I think he’s doing a bad job. The point I’m making is that he is doing no better than any other scout out there. His glowing reputation has been built on ignorant journalists with no footballing knowledge outside of these shores.

While I don’t think he’s done a bad job at all, I would ask the question as to why Joe Kinnear has been brought in to oversee all footballing operations. We all know that Kinnear’s not the brightest and that Ashley is prone to the odd rash decision, but if Graham Carr’s Einstein-like scouting brain was really functioning as well as the media made us believe, would he now be working under Joe Kinnear? I think not.

Just because the press haven’t heard of French internationals, it doesn’t make them little rough diamonds signed for pittance.

 

http://thespectatorsview.com/2013/11/27/the-famed-scouting-system-of-newcastle-united-beware/

[JonTheMag 4]

Silly article - he uses the evidence to suit his preconceived argument. It's not a question of players being known or not - you have plenty of players who have been well known but not signed by English clubs. It's about spotting talent and seeing that they have the qualities to succeed in the Premier League. In this day and age you're not going to just find some unheard of player that will perform incredibly out of nowhere - there's just too much exposure. So buying a player like Cisse, who had not attracted major interest from a bigger club, and having him do as well as he did in his first half season definitely qualifies as a scouting success.

 

Pure sensationalism!

[Ayatollah Hermione 13861]

The article conveniently forgets the context to each window too. What was he expecting from our first season back up, for instance? I mean, the kid's just trying to make himself look mint, possibly so he can get a job for Football Manager's "research" team but any half-decent writer, not looking for attention, wouldn't bother himself. Comes from that school of thought that thinks "This player is highly rated with a potential of 198. I bet he'd fit in ANY team!"

 

You can criticise Ashley's Newcastle United for a lot but the players we've signed since coming up is not one of them.

 

The "Richard Smith" comment gets it bang on actually.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Ayatollah Hermione