Toon scout Graham Carr scours globe for talent

[Happy Face 29]

13 of those players that you considering somewhat successful have just got us relegated. Forgive me if I'm not particularly imrpessed with our recruitment.

 

By that blanket rationale no good player ever got relegated.

 

They've all undeniably put in performances that justified their fee. Performances that would catch the eye of any scout observing.

[David Kelly 1245]

By that blanket rationale no good player ever got relegated.

 

They've all undeniably put in performances that justified their fee. Performances that would catch the eye of any scout observing.

That's not the rationale at all. The rationale I'm using is a team that gets you relegated is not a success and the people who brought you that team aren't either.

 

I agree all of them have put in some good performances but most of them have overall failed to deliver what they were brought in for.

[The Fish 10858]

That's not the rationale at all. The rationale I'm using is a team that gets you relegated is not a success and the people who brought you that team aren't either.

 

I agree all of them have put in some good performances but most of them have overall failed to deliver what they were brought in for.

You're discounting the impact a bad coach can have on good players, the impact an unbalanced side can have on good players and so on.

 

Rafa's 10 game form with the bad players would have got us just shy of 50pts.

[David Kelly 1245]

You're discounting the impact a bad coach can have on good players, the impact an unbalanced side can have on good players and so on.

 

Rafa's 10 game form with the bad players would have got us just shy of 50pts.

I'm not discounting anything. I said the people who brought us the team were to blame. That includes the coaches, scouts, MD's and Owner. They're all responsible.

 

And I don't like using a small sample to extrapolate the form of a season. I believe Rafa would kept us up mind, I just don't think such a small amount of mathematical data should be used as some sort of evidence. BTW, by all accounts Carr was the man who pushed for McClaren and wanted to give him more time. So when you're talking about how the coaches are to blame you have to factor in who put them in the position too.

[The Fish 10858]

I'm not discounting anything. I said the people who brought us the team were to blame. That includes the coaches, scouts, MD's and Owner. They're all responsible.

 

And I don't like using a small sample to extrapolate the form of a season. I believe Rafa would kept us up mind, I just don't think such a small amount of mathematical data should be used as some sort of evidence. BTW, by all accounts Carr was the man who pushed for McClaren and wanted to give him more time. So when you're talking about how the coaches are to blame you have to factor in who put them in the position too.

 

But surely it's possible for a team with good players in it to be relegated because the wrong manager was in charge for too long and the weaknesses in the squad weren't addressed?

 

Carr should be criticised for some of his failures, but I think a lot of the players he's bought have shown, at least in flashes, their genuine ability. e.g. Wijnaldum is clearly a talented capable footballer and one that I believe should have done well at Newcastle, unfortunately he was coached by a Carry-On character and was played in an unbalanced football side.

[essembeeofsunderland 811]

Carr has found players,and then we have signed them,with shit attitudes,never mind little or no ability.Cabella,Riviere,Gouffran,Obertan and the biggest waster of them all,fuckin Thauvin.They will have improved their english and that's about it.We'll never know who actually had the final say on the shit we have signed from abroad but Carr has to be held responsable for suggesting we should sign the shit we have.

[David Kelly 1245]

But surely it's possible for a team with good players in it to be relegated because the wrong manager was in charge for too long and the weaknesses in the squad weren't addressed?

 

Carr should be criticised for some of his failures, but I think a lot of the players he's bought have shown, at least in flashes, their genuine ability. e.g. Wijnaldum is clearly a talented capable footballer and one that I believe should have done well at Newcastle, unfortunately he was coached by a Carry-On character and was played in an unbalanced football side.

Again, the people who brought us the team are responsible. Be that for recommending poor players (Carr), not being able to coach/motivate them (McClaren), allowing McClaren to stay in charge too long or be in charge in the first place (Carr & Charnley), for not allowing us to address the weaknesses in the squad (Ashley, Charnley, Carr possibly) and for making the club one that the players don't give a fuck about (Ashley).

 

I'm not aportioning all the blame on Carr or saying that he had no successes. We all know it ultimately falls on Ashleys door but those under him (Charnley, Carr, McClaren, Pardew) have all failed us too. As I said earlier, in Carr's case, I believe his biggest failings probably come from him being given too much power in certain areas.

Edited May 19, 2016 by David Kelly

[Gemmill 44901]

Here we go again. Game of Drones. [emoji38]

[scoobos 298]

So harsh to put Shelvy in the same bucket as Obertan there HF!

I also thought him and Townsend were McLaren's signings btw.

Edited May 19, 2016 by scoobos

[essembeeofsunderland 811]

I would think if you or i spoke with a couple of football journalists they would give you the run down on who was decent,who was shite and who have attitude problems.Through work i got to know a Le Havre season ticket supporter.When we signed HBA i asked him what he thought.` He's not a team player.He'll dribble and dribble and will usually lose the ball'.He wasn't too far off the mark.Carr cannot be asking the right people for their views,if he's asking anyone.Now i would never suggest inproper conduct has taken place.I would never do that as i don't know Carr.He's a gerodie through and through so he would never do that.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Tiote, Cabaye and Ben Arfa were all quality picks by Carr. Yes, since then he may have identified targets the club deemed too expensive but there's a lot of crap in both of those lists HF compiled - most of whom I assume were recommended by Carr.

[essembeeofsunderland 811]

I wouldn't say HBA was a quality pick nor would i say the signing of Tiote was.Cabaye yes.HBA disappointed in general and Tiote can be decent on his day,if a liability at times.HBA a 5/10 signing.Tiote 6.5/10.Cabaye 7/10.Gouffran 4/10 and 3/10 for Obertan.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3897]

I wouldn't say HBA was a quality pick nor would i say the signing of Tiote was.Cabaye yes.HBA disappointed in general and Tiote can be decent on his day,if a liability at times.HBA a 5/10 signing.Tiote 6.5/10.Cabaye 7/10.Gouffran 4/10 and 3/10 for Obertan.

Obertan was a Pardew pick

[Rayvin 5223]

Aye that's true.

 

I reckon it's time to move on from Carr, if nothing else due to the fact that he seems to specialise in France and we're having no luck whatsoever in that market presently.

 

We could arguably do with a wider scouting network full stop. Wouldn't mind if he continued in different role - even specialising in France tbh, as long as we had more coming in from elsewhere.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

I wouldn't say HBA was a quality pick nor would i say the signing of Tiote was.Cabaye yes.HBA disappointed in general and Tiote can be decent on his day,if a liability at times.HBA a 5/10 signing.Tiote 6.5/10.Cabaye 7/10.Gouffran 4/10 and 3/10 for Obertan.

Tiote was different class first few seasons.

[gpirlo68 0]

I wouldn't say HBA was a quality pick nor would i say the signing of Tiote was.Cabaye yes.HBA disappointed in general and Tiote can be decent on his day,if a liability at times.HBA a 5/10 signing.Tiote 6.5/10.Cabaye 7/10.Gouffran 4/10 and 3/10 for Obertan.

Tiote only cost like 3 or 4 million and he's still the best defensive midfielder at the club. He's been well worth the money

[Happy Face 29]

Talk of HBA going to Barca but he's only 1/10th better than Gouffran?

[Howmanheyman 33246]

Gouffran is their next pick if HBA fails medical.

[LooneyToony 41]

I wouldn't say HBA was a quality pick nor would i say the signing of Tiote was.Cabaye yes.HBA disappointed in general and Tiote can be decent on his day,if a liability at times.HBA a 5/10 signing.Tiote 6.5/10.Cabaye 7/10.Gouffran 4/10 and 3/10 for Obertan.

 

What?! HBA a disappointment? It astounds me that "fans" still think that a club like ours (out of relegation then, poorly run and desperate for quality) think HBA was a "disappointment. Hello? We're crap and relegated again!

[Rayvin 5223]

Not sure it's a statement on his ability so much as how little difference that ability made to us in the end. Apart from a few wonder goals his impact on the team, from memory, was negligible.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

We wouldn't have finished 5th without those wondegoals

[LooneyToony 41]

We wouldn't have finished 5th without those wondegoals

Thank you. His impact on this club was not negligible. It was important that he came to us when he did. We sucked then and were extremely desperate. Since his departure no other player gets me excited when they get 20 yards outside the box. Not even Ayoze Perez anymore.

Edited May 20, 2016 by LooneyToony

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

I was defending Ben Arfa not you

[ewerk 30620]

We wouldn't have finished 5th without those wondegoals

Actually if you took his goals out of that season then we wouldn't have lost a point.

Edited May 20, 2016 by ewerk

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

Pointless stat really. We wouldn't have broken Bolton down if it wasn't for his goal. That we went on to score another takes nothing from the importance of his contribution