NEWCASTLE HIT BACK IN NEW KEVIN KEEGAN ROW

[LeazesMag 0]

I agree with a lot of the points TP makes. The problem with Ashley though is that he doesn't really care about the club beyond recouping what he's put in. That's why I don't think we'll see the 'happy medium' most of us would be happy with, i.e. between his running of the club and the unsustainability of the last lot, any time soon.

 

IMO he is basically another of these arseholes who alternate between "Keegan won nowt" and "all the Halls and Shepherd did was make a load of money when they sold it". Both these views show cluelessness as to what they did when they were at the club, which is what counts.

 

If we win the European Cup under Mike Ashley, he can print his own fucking money for me, but survival in the premiership and a couple of million quid profit [gained by selling our best players if that is the only way to do it] is his only aim.

 

After all, how much money can you make qualifying for the Champions League ? More than you can by simply selling players like Andy Carroll, Tiote or Enrique ? So why should he bother trying to qualify for the Champions League.

[Dolly Potter MD 0]

The lifetime earnings claim is not speculative, its about basic mathematics. For lifetime earnings, its simply yearly income x years left before retirement. Its about as speculative as me calling you a tit.

 

This was a constructive dismissal case so the parameters of the claimants compensation are 100% determined by his annual income and any future lost income due to the process. Therefore, no negotiation can take place on this within the judgement unless it is settled out of court.

 

I earn e.g. £150k a year. I believe i am constructively dismissed. On the basis of your logic, i should sue for £150m so that i can 'negotiate' a better deal. Utter tripe.

 

A basic mathematics formula [to calculate lifetime earnings before retirement] isn't purely black & white, in a profession as volatile & unpredictable as the football management caper, and this probably relates to other high-risk & unpredictable professions as well. Of course speculation factors in, as per the eventual figure claimed. Offshoot business ventures arise [ie. the public speaking circuit, and Soccer Circus type of ventures] within the game, but does this equate to the sort of figure claimed by KK and his advisors in the life-time earnings claim. It was horribly optimistic on the part of KK's advisors, he was badly advised as touched on earlier, and as you're probably aware there's alot of brinksmanship & bluffing that goes on in damages claims - hoping that the defendant's resolve will falter, while ultimately settling out of court for a smaller figure.

 

For Keegan's lifetime claim [for that amount] to be successful the tribunal would have needed to buy into the belief that KK was still a highly motivated & 'current' career manager, it must enter into the equation. Was he going to jump into another lucrative mangement post, was the NUFC post the only one he'd make another return to the caper for etc. Given the the length of KK's previous hiatus from the trade, and the man's character itself [who has fallen out of love with the profession before, due to boardroom politics etc] there must be doubts. I think Ashley's advisors bought into the latter and refused to settle accordingly. On this basis KK's claim [as per lifetime earnings] was compromised . It was a foolhardy bluff and based on Keegan's probable career outlook at the time, Ashley's advisors called it correctly and opted to take their chances.

 

Rewind the clock fifteen years, with a younger career manager [in Keegan] as a claimant, and a claim for that sort of amount gains alot of credibilty.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Year Zero

[Guest]

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[Toonpack 10035]

IMO he is basically another of these arseholes who alternate between "Keegan won nowt" and "all the Halls and Shepherd did was make a load of money when they sold it". Both these views show cluelessness as to what they did when they were at the club, which is what counts.

 

 

Your opinion is wrong then.

 

That said both of the above are facts and I don't alternate between the two, fairly consistent on both matters. Would add to your second Halls/Shep bit "whilst owning the club and when they sold it".

 

I don't criticise KK for not winning anything, what he did was amazing and hugely raised the profile of the club the sad thing is we didn't capitalise on the foundation he left. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good, we were awfully good.

 

They key breaking point IMO was SBR not taking the job, when KK left, because of his principles when at Barca, (remember he left because of financial issues with the flotation, sort of driven out by the owners wish to make a killing, if you will) and the latter drop from the CL.

 

My issue with Halls/Shepherd are around the way they continued to "chase the dream" when it hadn't worked at the most opportune time, like gamblers chasing the last big loss. The borrowing was maxed out, the opportunity for more money to throw at it was gone and when they left we desperately needed more money just to stand still. There's also the issue that despite losses mounting up at the club, dividends were still huge.

 

Despite the "great" years we had peaked and were heading downwards under the previos stewardship, that is indisputable. The chance to repeat "the magic" just did not exist, we already had one loan at over 11%.

 

That said Ashley is a grade A prick, but he's made gazillions and he had the deep pockets to keep the club afloat, I know you deny we were in trouble, but I totally disagree with that premise, because try as I might, I can't see where circa £100mill was going to come from in the financial climate as it was/is. I'm sorry but I really really can't.

 

Moving forward, without a Shiek or an Oligarch we cannot compete with the Champs League teams at this time, that is a sad fact.

 

Regarding Ashley, I would be surprised if all he's after is a £2mill/year profit as that'll take 100+ years to pay back what he's already put in. Lets face it, he's fucking good (albeit in a maverick way) at what he does in the business world and all we can hope is that savvy or luck rubs off in his ownership of NUFC. I accept he's made some HUGE fuck ups, but financially we are approaching being sound (which is progress like it or not) the summer will be a defining moment in what his intentions are in terms of "ambition".

 

Ashleys history with NUFC isn't written yet, Halls/Shep's is and whilst it had it's high points it also latterly had significant lows. Hitler looked like king of the world in 1940, he wasn't looking so good in 1945.

[LeazesMag 0]

IMO he is basically another of these arseholes who alternate between "Keegan won nowt" and "all the Halls and Shepherd did was make a load of money when they sold it". Both these views show cluelessness as to what they did when they were at the club, which is what counts.

 

 

Your opinion is wrong then.

 

That said both of the above are facts and I don't alternate between the two, fairly consistent on both matters. Would add to your second Halls/Shep bit "whilst owning the club and when they sold it".

 

I don't criticise KK for not winning anything, what he did was amazing and hugely raised the profile of the club the sad thing is we didn't capitalise on the foundation he left. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good, we were awfully good.

 

They key breaking point IMO was SBR not taking the job, when KK left, because of his principles when at Barca, (remember he left because of financial issues with the flotation, sort of driven out by the owners wish to make a killing, if you will) and the latter drop from the CL.

 

My issue with Halls/Shepherd are around the way they continued to "chase the dream" when it hadn't worked at the most opportune time, like gamblers chasing the last big loss. The borrowing was maxed out, the opportunity for more money to throw at it was gone and when they left we desperately needed more money just to stand still. There's also the issue that despite losses mounting up at the club, dividends were still huge.

 

Despite the "great" years we had peaked and were heading downwards under the previos stewardship, that is indisputable. The chance to repeat "the magic" just did not exist, we already had one loan at over 11%.

 

That said Ashley is a grade A prick, but he's made gazillions and he had the deep pockets to keep the club afloat, I know you deny we were in trouble, but I totally disagree with that premise, because try as I might, I can't see where circa £100mill was going to come from in the financial climate as it was/is. I'm sorry but I really really can't.

 

Moving forward, without a Shiek or an Oligarch we cannot compete with the Champs League teams at this time, that is a sad fact.

 

Regarding Ashley, I would be surprised if all he's after is a £2mill/year profit as that'll take 100+ years to pay back what he's already put in. Lets face it, he's fucking good (albeit in a maverick way) at what he does in the business world and all we can hope is that savvy or luck rubs off in his ownership of NUFC. I accept he's made some HUGE fuck ups, but financially we are approaching being sound (which is progress like it or not) the summer will be a defining moment in what his intentions are in terms of "ambition".

 

Ashleys history with NUFC isn't written yet, Halls/Shep's is and whilst it had it's high points it also latterly had significant lows. Hitler looked like king of the world in 1940, he wasn't looking so good in 1945.

 

you're cherry picking. At the end of the day, they are the only owners who have attempted to put this club where it ought to be in half a century. They knew what it takes to do it, and gave it their best shot. Nobody else has, Mike Ashley won't. Your hatred blinds you to this, but its a FACT.

 

Other than that, you are just spouting the same old bollocks, and that is what it is, bollocks. If you seriously think we have no chance of matching the likes of Spurs and Liverpool, you are proving your knowledge of this football club is abysmal but I've already shown your memory to be exactly that.

 

We can say what Mike Ashley's ambition is for the football club, I've been saying it for about 3 and a half years now, all you have to do is open your eyes, but that isn't a strong point of yours and other people too.

 

It's a shame you look back on the Halls and Shepherd the way you do, because even the 7th top spot gained only a year before they sold the club may not be repeated in your lifetime. But, as you think we aren't capable of challenging the likes of Spurs and Liverpool - by fuck Ashley has succeeded in lowering your expectations hasn't he- then you are obviously going to be happy with a mediocre football team at best or being a yoyo club like we were under the Seymour and McKeag eras, and ironically the mackems under Bob Murray when all the posters on skunkers enjoyed every minute of us being miles superior to them.

[Guest]

Toonpack is winning this argument imo

[Toonpack 10035]

At the end of the day, they are the only owners who have attempted to put this club where it ought to be in half a century. They knew what it takes to do it, and gave it their best shot and failed.

 

 

Tidied

 

Unfortunately the vehicle that they "knew what it took to do it" with, i.e. credit, was over used and has since dried up.

 

You're confusing Champions League NUFC with non CL NUFC, and we haven't been in that "club" (or close to it) for a long time, you also fail to appreciate that the games dynamics have changed, there is no multi-million loans to be had and we don't have a Sheik and we're not in the self fullfilling prophecy that is the CL and it's riches.

 

It's not a question of acceptance, it's a question of realism. We have to find another way, the old road to the top was closed whilst we were still trying to drive along it.

 

Wake up and smell the coffee man !!!!

[Guest]

At the end of the day, they are the only owners who have attempted to put this club where it ought to be in half a century. They knew what it takes to do it, and gave it their best shot and failed.

 

 

Tidied

 

Unfortunately the vehicle that they "knew what it took to do it" with, i.e. credit, was over used and has since dried up.

 

You're confusing Champions League NUFC with non CL NUFC, and we haven't been in that "club" (or close to it) for a long time, you also fail to appreciate that the games dynamics have changed, there is no multi-million loans to be had and we don't have a Sheik and we're not in the self fullfilling prophecy that is the CL and it's riches.

 

It's not a question of acceptance, it's a question of realism. We have to find another way, the old road to the top was closed whilst we were still trying to drive along it.

 

Wake up and smell the coffee man !!!!

 

 

He wants us to appoint a quality manager and throw cash at him, despite laughing at Villa in another thread for doing the same and not getting into the CL.

[Toonpack 10035]

At the end of the day, they are the only owners who have attempted to put this club where it ought to be in half a century. They knew what it takes to do it, and gave it their best shot and failed.

 

 

Tidied

 

Unfortunately the vehicle that they "knew what it took to do it" with, i.e. credit, was over used and has since dried up.

 

You're confusing Champions League NUFC with non CL NUFC, and we haven't been in that "club" (or close to it) for a long time, you also fail to appreciate that the games dynamics have changed, there is no multi-million loans to be had and we don't have a Sheik and we're not in the self fullfilling prophecy that is the CL and it's riches.

 

It's not a question of acceptance, it's a question of realism. We have to find another way, the old road to the top was closed whilst we were still trying to drive along it.

 

Wake up and smell the coffee man !!!!

 

 

He wants us to appoint a quality manager and throw cash at him, despite laughing at Villa in another thread for doing the same and not getting into the CL.

 

Yeah I know.

 

In fairness though I'd love us to appoint a quality manager and throw serious dosh at him, but the possibility of doing that is nil, without a Sheik.

[LeazesMag 0]

At the end of the day, they are the only owners who have attempted to put this club where it ought to be in half a century. They knew what it takes to do it, and gave it their best shot and failed.

 

 

Tidied

 

Unfortunately the vehicle that they "knew what it took to do it" with, i.e. credit, was over used and has since dried up.

 

You're confusing Champions League NUFC with non CL NUFC, and we haven't been in that "club" (or close to it) for a long time, you also fail to appreciate that the games dynamics have changed, there is no multi-million loans to be had and we don't have a Sheik and we're not in the self fullfilling prophecy that is the CL and it's riches.

 

It's not a question of acceptance, it's a question of realism. We have to find another way, the old road to the top was closed whilst we were still trying to drive along it.

 

Wake up and smell the coffee man !!!!

 

you can answer the rest of the post if you like.

 

In the meantime, look up the meaning of "cherry picking". On the other hand, you'll probably forget.

 

Mike Ashley has turned one of the biggest clubs in the country into also rans content with premiership survival. The club is in decline, the expectations have fallen among suckers like you.

 

If you actually went to games, or better still had gone to games prior to 1992, you might have more idea.

[LeazesMag 0]

At the end of the day, they are the only owners who have attempted to put this club where it ought to be in half a century. They knew what it takes to do it, and gave it their best shot and failed.

 

 

Tidied

 

Unfortunately the vehicle that they "knew what it took to do it" with, i.e. credit, was over used and has since dried up.

 

You're confusing Champions League NUFC with non CL NUFC, and we haven't been in that "club" (or close to it) for a long time, you also fail to appreciate that the games dynamics have changed, there is no multi-million loans to be had and we don't have a Sheik and we're not in the self fullfilling prophecy that is the CL and it's riches.

 

It's not a question of acceptance, it's a question of realism. We have to find another way, the old road to the top was closed whilst we were still trying to drive along it.

 

Wake up and smell the coffee man !!!!

 

 

He wants us to appoint a quality manager and throw cash at him, despite laughing at Villa in another thread for doing the same and not getting into the CL.

 

you don't surprise me anymore. I laughed at Villa because they didn't match the Halls and Shepherd, despite "appointing a quality manager and having a plan" that the Halls and Shepherd "didn't have".

 

Priceless. You cluelessness is reaching new heights.

 

Remind us again, how often you watched the team under the Halls and Shepherd, just so we can see where you gain your insight and knowledge

[LeazesMag 0]

At the end of the day, they are the only owners who have attempted to put this club where it ought to be in half a century. They knew what it takes to do it, and gave it their best shot and failed.

 

 

Tidied

 

Unfortunately the vehicle that they "knew what it took to do it" with, i.e. credit, was over used and has since dried up.

 

You're confusing Champions League NUFC with non CL NUFC, and we haven't been in that "club" (or close to it) for a long time, you also fail to appreciate that the games dynamics have changed, there is no multi-million loans to be had and we don't have a Sheik and we're not in the self fullfilling prophecy that is the CL and it's riches.

 

It's not a question of acceptance, it's a question of realism. We have to find another way, the old road to the top was closed whilst we were still trying to drive along it.

 

Wake up and smell the coffee man !!!!

 

 

He wants us to appoint a quality manager and throw cash at him, despite laughing at Villa in another thread for doing the same and not getting into the CL.

 

Yeah I know.

 

In fairness though I'd love us to appoint a quality manager and throw serious dosh at him, but the possibility of doing that is nil, without a Sheik.

 

like Kenny Dalglish

[Guest]

Wish I could read all of that certain repetition

[Guest]

At the end of the day, they are the only owners who have attempted to put this club where it ought to be in half a century. They knew what it takes to do it, and gave it their best shot and failed.

 

 

Tidied

 

Unfortunately the vehicle that they "knew what it took to do it" with, i.e. credit, was over used and has since dried up.

 

You're confusing Champions League NUFC with non CL NUFC, and we haven't been in that "club" (or close to it) for a long time, you also fail to appreciate that the games dynamics have changed, there is no multi-million loans to be had and we don't have a Sheik and we're not in the self fullfilling prophecy that is the CL and it's riches.

 

It's not a question of acceptance, it's a question of realism. We have to find another way, the old road to the top was closed whilst we were still trying to drive along it.

 

Wake up and smell the coffee man !!!!

 

 

He wants us to appoint a quality manager and throw cash at him, despite laughing at Villa in another thread for doing the same and not getting into the CL.

 

Yeah I know.

 

In fairness though I'd love us to appoint a quality manager and throw serious dosh at him, but the possibility of doing that is nil, without a Sheik.

 

 

Tbf to Lerner, the one season his club competed against Shepherd's his 'plan' was better than Shepherd's because he finished above Shepherd's club.

[Toonpack 10035]

you can answer the rest of the post if you like.

 

 

OK I will

 

 

you're cherry picking.

 

Fraid, not, you cherry pick by sticking with the biggest and best cherry we ever had and talk about it like it was still ripe yesterday, sadly it’s started to go rotten long ago.

 

 

 

Other than that, you are just spouting the same old bollocks, and that is what it is, bollocks. If you seriously think we have no chance of matching the likes of Spurs and Liverpool, you are proving your knowledge of this football club is abysmal but I've already shown your memory to be exactly that.

 

You’re changing tack from “do I think they are bigger” to ”do you think we can match them”. Do I think we can match Liverpool and/or Spurs, yes I do, history has shown that we can. Sadly we got up there and then dropped behind and AT THIS MOMENT (and for some time for that matter) we cannot compete with them. That’s not saying we can’t again in the future BUT I accept there is no quick fix without a richer and more philanthropic owner, not likely to happen sadly.

 

 

We can say what Mike Ashley's ambition is for the football club, I've been saying it for about 3 and a half years now, all you have to do is open your eyes, but that isn't a strong point of yours and other people too

 

No we can’t, yet, we can all say what we “think” it might be, but we don’t definitively know yet. This summer will be a big tester for that though because the Club has money, where it goes will be interesting.

 

 

It's a shame you look back on the Halls and Shepherd the way you do, because even the 7th top spot gained only a year before they sold the club may not be repeated in your lifetime. But, as you think we aren't capable of challenging the likes of Spurs and Liverpool - by fuck Ashley has succeeded in lowering your expectations hasn't he- then you are obviously going to be happy with a mediocre football team at best or being a yoyo club like we were under the Seymour and McKeag eras, and ironically the mackems under Bob Murray when all the posters on skunkers enjoyed every minute of us being miles superior to them.

 

I look upon the Hall/Shep reign as “nice try, but no banana”, my expectation is not lowered, but I am realistic enough to realize that a different approach to the one that we tried (and failed at) is needed, as said previously, the old way is dead.

[Guest]

Owned

[LeazesMag 0]

you can answer the rest of the post if you like.

 

 

OK I will

 

 

you're cherry picking.

 

Fraid, not, you cherry pick by sticking with the biggest and best cherry we ever had and talk about it like it was still ripe yesterday, sadly it’s started to go rotten long ago.

 

 

 

Other than that, you are just spouting the same old bollocks, and that is what it is, bollocks. If you seriously think we have no chance of matching the likes of Spurs and Liverpool, you are proving your knowledge of this football club is abysmal but I've already shown your memory to be exactly that.

 

You’re changing tack from “do I think they are bigger” to ”do you think we can match them”. Do I think we can match Liverpool and/or Spurs, yes I do, history has shown that we can. Sadly we got up there and then dropped behind and AT THIS MOMENT (and for some time for that matter) we cannot compete with them. That’s not saying we can’t again in the future BUT I accept there is no quick fix without a richer and more philanthropic owner, not likely to happen sadly.

 

 

We can say what Mike Ashley's ambition is for the football club, I've been saying it for about 3 and a half years now, all you have to do is open your eyes, but that isn't a strong point of yours and other people too

 

No we can’t, yet, we can all say what we “think” it might be, but we don’t definitively know yet. This summer will be a big tester for that though because the Club has money, where it goes will be interesting.

 

 

It's a shame you look back on the Halls and Shepherd the way you do, because even the 7th top spot gained only a year before they sold the club may not be repeated in your lifetime. But, as you think we aren't capable of challenging the likes of Spurs and Liverpool - by fuck Ashley has succeeded in lowering your expectations hasn't he- then you are obviously going to be happy with a mediocre football team at best or being a yoyo club like we were under the Seymour and McKeag eras, and ironically the mackems under Bob Murray when all the posters on skunkers enjoyed every minute of us being miles superior to them.

 

I look upon the Hall/Shep reign as “nice try, but no banana”, my expectation is not lowered, but I am realistic enough to realize that a different approach to the one that we tried (and failed at) is needed, as said previously, the old way is dead.

 

Sadly, you have to face the facts that Mike Ashley has transformed what was a top club into also rans. The club is on the decline because it is falling down the football rich list ie revenues, this has been at his own choice ie to run the club with smaller expenditures and smaller income to try and produce a small profit for himself, which is all it would be, unless he increases any profit by selling players at a profit. Carroll is just the first. You are in no position whatsoever to even dispute this when he has just sold our best striker by far for a record fee to a club that should be our rivals and is a club we finished above for the first time in half a century simply by finally running the club and aiming for the same goals as they have done ie to be as high as possible in the league table and qualify for the champions league and europe as often as possible, by putting the football first.

 

Your expectation is lowered, despite what you say, because you have swallowed completely the notion that we have no chance of challenging these clubs nor of keeping our best players.

 

It is beyond belief that after 4 years of Mike Ashley, you still dispute his motives or his "plan", it is obvious to a blind man.

 

I hope you are bookmarking these posts, I don't know how long you want to see what is staring you in the face.

 

If you went to games, you might have more idea, having said that others go to games and are equally as clueless and gullible so that's a bit harsh, but it might improve your memory.

 

I don't believe a word you say about your support for this club, I think you watched the Seymour and McKeag years from the outside and most of the Halls and Shepherd which is why you have no idea of what they or Keegan did. At the very best, you are one of those who have developed your hatred because they attracted you back to the club on the back of hoping we would win the premiership and you now hate them for building your hopes up I really don't see how the likes of you and Skidders prefer a football club not to have a go at being successful.

 

Mike Ashley will NEVER match the Halls and Shepherd, and its more than possible that the 7th position achieved only a year before they sold, will never be matched in your lifetime either.

 

What did you say about "enjoy it while it is there and don't worry about something which might or might not happen tomorrow".

 

You really couldn't make it up.

 

So far as I am concerned, after 4 years I am right in my assessment of Mike Ashley already, and time will only make it more obvious although I doubt very much that you will admit it. You'll still be disputing in 5 years time to "see what the next transfer window brings".

[LeazesMag 0]

Owned

 

is that supposed to mean something in your little head

[Guest]

[NJS 4411]

Mike Ashley will NEVER match the Halls and Shepherd

 

There's that relish again.

 

And matching fuck all is easy.

[LeazesMag 0]

Mike Ashley will NEVER match the Halls and Shepherd

 

There's that relish again.

 

And matching fuck all is easy.

 

qualifying for europe more than everybody but 4 other clubs in 15 years is easy is it ?

 

Without even mentioning saving the club from administration and leaving it 14th in footballs rich list ?

 

How come Ashley hasn't done it yet then ?

 

What a fuckin bellend.

Edited March 10, 2011 by LeazesMag

[jaythesouthernmag 0]

Owned

 

is that supposed to mean something in your little head

Blah,blah,blah(sticks fingers in ears)

Blah,blah,blah(stamps feet)

 

Pointless arguing with this fucking spacker as his head is so far up the Halls and Freds arse holes. He has no concept of how football finances have changed and the amount of money needed to compete. I've no doubt if Fred was still in charge we would have had bid for Torres without having a clue how to pay for him. Maybe the 2020 sponsor money??

 

Wake the fuck up and get into the real world

[LeazesMag 0]

 

it means nothing in your little head ?

[LeazesMag 0]

Owned

 

is that supposed to mean something in your little head

Blah,blah,blah(sticks fingers in ears)

Blah,blah,blah(stamps feet)

 

Pointless arguing with this fucking spacker as his head is so far up the Halls and Freds arse holes. He has no concept of how football finances have changed and the amount of money needed to compete. I've no doubt if Fred was still in charge we would have had bid for Torres without having a clue how to pay for him. Maybe the 2020 sponsor money??

 

Wake the fuck up and get into the real world

 

you haven't a clue what you are talking about son.

 

Another with expectations lowered, unless you are a 14 year old which explains everything.

 

Edit. Are you saying you know better than Keegan does ? Another fuckin bellend.

Edited March 10, 2011 by LeazesMag

[Asprilla 96]

Leazes is more right than not.

 

Forget the obvious criticisms you can place with Shepherd/Hall for one minute and ask yourself how you think any team can break into the top 4 without spending big.

 

 

If you borrow too much in any walk of life you'll hit the skids eventually. Perhaps we were at that point when Ashley came in, perhaps not....it's a cyclical argument based on opinion because we'll never know what would have happened either way.

 

 

The fact is though, although I think Ashley is getting some things right (we aren't wasting money on shit/past it players on huge contracts) he's also never going to do anything more than fluke a top 6 finish once in a blue moon if he's not prepared to invest in the best players. It's that simple.

 

 

Selling Andy Carroll made us weaker and Liverpool stronger.

 

 

He didn't need to sell him financially. He wanted to.