Hospitals fail old people

[Toonraider 0]

Sorry to hear about your dad Bev, you're right in that the major problem with looking after patients, particularly the elderly, is the lack of nursing staff.

 

That article quotes the same example twice btw.

 

And Rob's opening comment isn't worth dignifying with a response.

 

 

just we get all the "angels working in hospital" line -they're not -it's the same mix of people you get everywhere else - some good, some bad

 

sometimes you really make me wonder, you do.

 

Edit.

 

Sorry to hear about your dad TR.

 

Thanks LM. xx It was Aug 2008 when he died. ( Not that I want to make this thread about my experiences)

 

Thing is, its the same in any role, you get the good and the bad. I have known some 'carers' in hospitals and nursing homes who are right cold, hard nasty people. Im afraid it happens. The ones I feel sorry for are the vulnerable who have no family or friends to keep an eye out for them.

 

now that's a thought

 

...and thats an entirely different thread subject

[Jusoda Kid 1]

The QE fails everybody, they don't discriminate

[JawD 99]

My wife was an OT before giving it up (for our kids). I've heard many a tale of hospitals wanting to get the old people out of hospital and back home as quick as possible, long before they should have been out of care.

[Toonraider 0]

My wife was an OT before giving it up (for our kids). I've heard many a tale of hospitals wanting to get the old people out of hospital and back home as quick as possible, long before they should have been out of care.

 

Yes I know for a fact that happens but often that's because the bed is desperately needed for someone in even more need.

[Rob W 0]

lots more stories in today's press about people's oldest & dearest being given bad treatment

[JawD 99]

My wife was an OT before giving it up (for our kids). I've heard many a tale of hospitals wanting to get the old people out of hospital and back home as quick as possible, long before they should have been out of care.

 

Yes I know for a fact that happens but often that's because the bed is desperately needed for someone in even more need.

 

I understand that aye, but so often the old person got sent home too early, has a slip at home and just ends up back in hospital.

[Toonraider 0]

My wife was an OT before giving it up (for our kids). I've heard many a tale of hospitals wanting to get the old people out of hospital and back home as quick as possible, long before they should have been out of care.

 

Yes I know for a fact that happens but often that's because the bed is desperately needed for someone in even more need.

 

I understand that aye, but so often the old person got sent home too early, has a slip at home and just ends up back in hospital.

 

yeah I know, the common practice now is to offer 'care in the community' package instead of paying for an elderly person to enter a residential care home. But I'm afraid it often ends in disaster.

[Guest Your Name Here]

Sorry to hear about your dad Bev, you're right in that the major problem with looking after patients, particularly the elderly, is the lack of nursing staff.

 

That article quotes the same example twice btw.

 

And Rob's opening comment isn't worth dignifying with a response.

 

 

just we get all the "angels working in hospital" line -they're not -it's the same mix of people you get everywhere else - some good, some bad

 

sometimes you really make me wonder, you do.

Edit.

 

Sorry to hear about your dad TR.

It’s true though. The NHS doesn’t exist outside the real world and the media’s reluctance to accept this is part of the problem. As Rob W says, everybody is an angel, until they do something wrong and are branded as evil. Pretending there aren’t numerous shades of grey inbetween is absurd and the people who get caught being less than perfect are usually scapegoats for systematic failings that can be traced right back to central government.

 

This thread should be called the media fail old people. They’re the ones who go fucking mental if any political party suggests raising taxes to pay for better services. They’re the ones who encourage politicians to use the NHS as a yah-boo point scoring political football. They’re the ones who create the pressure that results in knee jerk initiatives and on the hop policy. Imagine how the media would react if Cameron said all Nurses weren’t angels and we need to look at how their performance is monitored... he’d get fucking slaughtered. We’re just not allowed to have a grown up debate about anything in this country and when the subject is something as emotive as health care there’s not a cat in hells chance of sensible decisions being made.

 

The biggest problem in this country is the sensationalist and immature agenda setting of a thoroughly hypocritical and self serving media. There’s no doubt some Hospitals are failing some old people some of the time. Society at large is failing old people, we’re all to blame.

[LeazesMag 0]

Sorry to hear about your dad Bev, you're right in that the major problem with looking after patients, particularly the elderly, is the lack of nursing staff.

 

That article quotes the same example twice btw.

 

And Rob's opening comment isn't worth dignifying with a response.

 

 

just we get all the "angels working in hospital" line -they're not -it's the same mix of people you get everywhere else - some good, some bad

 

sometimes you really make me wonder, you do.

Edit.

 

Sorry to hear about your dad TR.

It’s true though. The NHS doesn’t exist outside the real world and the media’s reluctance to accept this is part of the problem. As Rob W says, everybody is an angel, until they do something wrong and are branded as evil. Pretending there aren’t numerous shades of grey inbetween is absurd and the people who get caught being less than perfect are usually scapegoats for systematic failings that can be traced right back to central government.

 

This thread should be called the media fail old people. They’re the ones who go fucking mental if any political party suggests raising taxes to pay for better services. They’re the ones who encourage politicians to use the NHS as a yah-boo point scoring political football. They’re the ones who create the pressure that results in knee jerk initiatives and on the hop policy. Imagine how the media would react if Cameron said all Nurses weren’t angels and we need to look at how their performance is monitored... he’d get fucking slaughtered. We’re just not allowed to have a grown up debate about anything in this country and when the subject is something as emotive as health care there’s not a cat in hells chance of sensible decisions being made.

 

The biggest problem in this country is the sensationalist and immature agenda setting of a thoroughly hypocritical and self serving media. There’s no doubt some Hospitals are failing some old people some of the time. Society at large is failing old people, we’re all to blame.

 

Fair points.

 

I don't work in hospitals and don't know anybody that does, but whenever I go, what seems to be never ending cuts always appear to be making a damaging impact.

 

Maybe its a bigger problem, and it probably is. If the hospitals aren't getting the money they need anymore, where is it going instead ? It's a sad situation when you have to pay to park your car in a hospital because they are short of money.

 

My comment to Rob is that he just appears to delight and criticise any public service whenever the opportunity arises.

 

What do people think of Northumbria Police axing all these jobs ?

[catmag 336]

I used to work at a hospital which was publicly dragged through the media as failing its patients. I know the wards to which they were referring and the staff who work on them. I know we bleat on about being short-staffed but it's a serious, serious problem, and no matter how many times the staff fill in critical incident forms or beg for more staff, nothing gets any better. No patient in hospital should be neglected, under-nourished, dehydrated or unclean and yet it's still happening. All I can say is that there are a lot of nurses that are doing their damndest and sometimes it's not enough. I couldn't go back to working on the wards now because for all it's rewards it can be absolutely frustrating and soul-destroying for the staff whose best is nowhere near good enough given the workload.

[Rob W 0]

"My comment to Rob is that he just appears to delight and criticise any public service whenever the opportunity arises."

 

no - I criticise bad performance anywhere -

 

It may be that so many services are provided by public or semi-public bodies these days and I think it would be fair to say that throwing zillions at them in the last 14 years hasn't improved them by as much as they should have.

 

I always said it was crazy to compare the National Health Service with Yuropean care when (as we used to) only spend 50% of what they spent on them.

[Renton 20485]

"My comment to Rob is that he just appears to delight and criticise any public service whenever the opportunity arises."

 

no - I criticise bad performance anywhere -

 

It may be that so many services are provided by public or semi-public bodies these days and I think it would be fair to say that throwing zillions at them in the last 14 years hasn't improved them by as much as they should have.

 

I always said it was crazy to compare the National Health Service with Yuropean care when (as we used to) only spend 50% of what they spent on them.

 

It's the law of diminishing returns though, you don't double quality by doubling expenditure. As for us spending 50% of what the average European country does, that is just complete bullshit you've made up (I can very easily disprove that if you like). After Labours substantial decade-long investment we now are about average in the EU, although you would expect the benefits to take many years to work themselves through, and are probably offset by external social problems anyway.

 

Personally I must have been really lucky I guess as I have always received a first-class service from the NHS (needed it a fair bit) as have my parents, relatives, and friends. Not saying shoddy treatment doesn't happen like, but there is obvious reporting bias in favour of substandard treatment.

 

I think YNH was spot on regarding the toxic media of this country, lapped up by buffoons like Rob here.

[LeazesMag 0]

"My comment to Rob is that he just appears to delight and criticise any public service whenever the opportunity arises."

 

no - I criticise bad performance anywhere -

 

It may be that so many services are provided by public or semi-public bodies these days and I think it would be fair to say that throwing zillions at them in the last 14 years hasn't improved them by as much as they should have.

 

I always said it was crazy to compare the National Health Service with Yuropean care when (as we used to) only spend 50% of what they spent on them.

 

Renton has started the ball rolling here...........its far more intricate than just "throwing zillions at them".

 

To be honest, I also think you are jealous of public services and their pensions etc too.

[Rob W 0]

"As for us spending 50% of what the average European country does, that is just complete bullshit you've made up"

 

if you bothered to read my post you'd have seen I was talking about WHEN we only spent 50% of European levels - which was in the mid 90's

 

The Labour Govt threw in buckets of cash to get us up to average levels - as you state

 

The problem was that throwing cash in did improve matters - but not as much as everyone hoped

[Renton 20485]

"As for us spending 50% of what the average European country does, that is just complete bullshit you've made up"

 

if you bothered to read my post you'd have seen I was talking about WHEN we only spent 50% of European levels - which was in the mid 90's

 

The Labour Govt threw in buckets of cash to get us up to average levels - as you state

 

The problem was that throwing cash in did improve matters - but not as much as everyone hoped

 

Aye, like it was clear in your post you were referring to the mid 1990s. Even then though I doubt it was anything like half the EU average.

 

What type of improvement outcomes had you in mind btw? One which I find quite interesting is satisfaction with the Health Service - which iirc recently the UK NHS came out as one of the most appreciated in the world by its users. This may be a reason why doctors and nurses are held in such high regard Rob, otherwise why do you think they are?

 

I think there are specific problems with elderly care, which overlap with problems with social services, and which are by no means unique to the UK. Bottom line is we don't put enough money into pensions and retirement. The function of the NHS shouldn't be the long-term care of elderly with chronic complaints, but often it's unclear whose responsibility this is.

[Guest alex]

Rob getting more nebulous with the details as his 'argument' floats into the ether. Look familiar to anyone?

[LeazesMag 0]

"As for us spending 50% of what the average European country does, that is just complete bullshit you've made up"

 

if you bothered to read my post you'd have seen I was talking about WHEN we only spent 50% of European levels - which was in the mid 90's

 

The Labour Govt threw in buckets of cash to get us up to average levels - as you state

 

The problem was that throwing cash in did improve matters - but not as much as everyone hoped

 

Aye, like it was clear in your post you were referring to the mid 1990s. Even then though I doubt it was anything like half the EU average.

 

What type of improvement outcomes had you in mind btw? One which I find quite interesting is satisfaction with the Health Service - which iirc recently the UK NHS came out as one of the most appreciated in the world by its users. This may be a reason why doctors and nurses are held in such high regard Rob, otherwise why do you think they are?

 

I think there are specific problems with elderly care, which overlap with problems with social services, and which are by no means unique to the UK. Bottom line is we don't put enough money into pensions and retirement. The function of the NHS shouldn't be the long-term care of elderly with chronic complaints, but often it's unclear whose responsibility this is.

 

Wouldn't argue with that, particularly as you work in the Health Service

 

This thread has political possibilities.......

[Rob W 0]

papers this week have been full of letters from people bemoaning the care of the elderly and what happened to their folks Alex

 

if you read owt but the Star you'd have noticed I guess

[Meenzer 15169]