Hospitals fail old people

[Rob W 0]

remeber this next time nurses and doctors are whining about their salaries

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12453248

 

The NHS is failing to treat elderly patients in England with care, dignity and respect, an official report says.

 

The Health Service Ombudsman came to the conclusion after carrying out an in-depth review. The ombudsman, which deals with serious complaints against the NHS, said the patients - aged over 65 - suffered unnecessary pain, neglect and distress.

 

Charities said the findings were "sickening", while the government admitted improvement was needed. Of nearly 9,000 complaints made to the ombudsman last year, 18% were about the care of older people. In total, it accepted 226 cases for investigation - twice as many as for all the other age groups combined.

 

The report concluded there was a gulf between the principles and values of the NHS and the reality being experienced by older patients. And the ombudsman, which is called in once a complaint cannot be resolved by individual NHS trusts, said the fact there was an ageing population made it even more essential that the concerns were dealt with.

Several themes became clear from the ombudsman's analysis. Half the people featured did not consume adequate food or water during their time in hospital.

 

After being admitted to hospital with severe abdominal and back pains, Mr D was diagnosed with advanced stomach cancer. He asked to be discharged so he could die at home. But when his daughter arrived to collect him, she found him sitting behind a closed curtain in distress. He had been left for several hours, was in pain, desperate to go to the toilet and unable to ask for help because he was so dehydrated that he could not speak or swallow. The emergency button had been placed out of his reach, his drip had been removed, fallen and had leaked all over the floor.

 

At home, his family discovered Mr D had not been given the right pain relief. His daughter said later: "It was as if he didn't exist." After investigating the case, the ombudsman found the trust had failed on a number of grounds.

 

Some were left in soiled or dirty clothes. One woman told the ombudsman how her aunt was taken on a long journey to a care home by ambulance. She arrived strapped to a stretcher and soaked with urine, dressed in unfamiliar clothing held up by paper clips, accompanied by bags of dirty laundry, much of which was not her own. Communication was also highlighted as a problem with one 82-year-old woman recalling how, on being discharged from hospital after minor surgery, she was frightened and unsure of how to get home. She asked the nurse to phone her daughter, but was told "this is not my job".

 

In another case, a cancer patient wanted to be discharged to die at home. When his daughter arrived to collect him, she found him sitting behind a closed curtain in distress. He had been left for several hours in pain and desperate to go to the toilet. He was unable to ask for help because he was so dehydrated that he could not speak or swallow.

 

Ann Abraham, the Health Service Ombudsman, said the accounts painted a picture of NHS provision that was "failing to meet even the most basic standards of care. These often harrowing accounts should cause every member of staff who reads this report to pause and ask themselves if any of their patients could suffer in the same way."

 

Michelle Mitchell, of Age UK, said: "The inhumane treatment of older people described in this report is sickening and should send shockwaves through the NHS and government."

 

And Katherine Murphy, chief executive of the Patients Association, added the report echoed the findings of research her group had done. How many reports do we have to have before anything will change and patients will stop suffering?"

 

Nigel Edwards, chief executive of the NHS Confederation, which represents NHS trusts, said the cases highlighted were "completely unacceptable". But he added: "It is of course important to put these examples in perspective. The NHS sees over a million people every 36 hours and the overwhelming majority say they receive good care."

Edited February 15, 2011 by Rob W

[Gemmill 42792]

A few bad eggs, Rob. As well you know. 9,000 complaints total to the ombudsman is not bad going given the nunnery of patients treated. That's a LOT of satisfied customers.

[Monkeys Fist 41379]

Fuck em.

Nearly dead anyway

[catmag 336]

I'm not going to bite other than to say that Gemmill is spot on - there will always be a small percentage of nurses/doctors/teachers/lawyers/binmen/add-any-other-occupation that are thoroughly incompetent. They need to be weeded out and struck off to make sure they're never allowed to 'look after' people again. The vast majority of us are competent and conscientious but it's not a good story to talk about those nurses that make a positive difference to patients lives. It is totally unacceptable for patients to be treated in the way described in the article, but there will always be people in all professions who act outside of their Code of Conduct.

[Gemmill 42792]

I meant number, not nunnery btw.

[Meenzer 15169]

I just assumed that was some kind of numerical approximation. "I was at Asda and there was a nunnery of people in front of me in the queue."

[NJS 4267]

Anecdotal of course but the last time I interacted with the NHS was when my Mam died (4 days waiting by her bed) and they were absolutely fantastic (though one of the nurses was a tad arrogant so I told her so).

[Guest alex]

My Dad's just been in and the level of care was excellent. Not that he'd like me calling him old.

[Toonraider 0]

I agree with Cath for the most part. But my own experience of when my Dad was in hospital for 3 weeks with Pneumonia are not good and even worse the week leading up to his death

I cant say he was ill treated or hurt in any way but the things I saw on this particular ward happened I think as a result of too few staff on duty, and several of the health care assistants showing they were either inexperienced, unprofessional or ignorant of the basic caring skills. Things such as curtains left open whilst dealing with patients, call bells not answered, elderly wandering alone who obviously shouldn't be, (on 4 occasions I went in to find my Dad bruised and cut from falls....yes it happens maybe once or twice but 4 times)? Please understand me I'm not criticising the staff, but the fact that there weren't enough of them around on a very busy large ward where the patients needed more attention and care than they could possibly give. Of course things go wrong. Vulnerable confused elderly need constant observing and there were not the staff available to do it. The most upsetting thing for me was mealtimes. I used to stay as much as I could to help my Dad with his food and drinks which the staff were glad of. But others weren't so lucky and often I saw the caterers bring food and later take it away almost untouched because no one had been around to assist with feeding. It really upset me and I did make a complaint. Again just not enough staff to have the time to sit with each patient for that amount of time and feed them.

When my Dad was admitted a couple months later, he was on a different ward. The Staff were very pleasant but mistakes did happen whereby there was a mix up between what the Doctor had asked to be done and what the nurse thought he wanted...in the end it didn't matter as my Dad died after a week. I was sensible enough to realise that the mix up with his treatment ultimately made no difference to the end result. I wont go into it all- its still too painful, but there was a post mortem and 4 months later an inquest into his death.

I dont mean to sound so negative, I know most of the time a brilliant job is done, but I do think some changes have to be made.

[luckyluke 2]

Sorry to hear about your dad Bev, you're right in that the major problem with looking after patients, particularly the elderly, is the lack of nursing staff.

 

That article quotes the same example twice btw.

 

And Rob's opening comment isn't worth dignifying with a response.

[Rob W 0]

I agree with Cath for the most part. But my own experience of when my Dad was in hospital for 3 weeks with Pneumonia are not good and even worse the week leading up to his death

I cant say he was ill treated or hurt in any way but the things I saw on this particular ward happened I think as a result of too few staff on duty, and several of the health care assistants showing they were either inexperienced, unprofessional or ignorant of the basic caring skills. Things such as curtains left open whilst dealing with patients, call bells not answered, elderly wandering alone who obviously shouldn't be, (on 4 occasions I went in to find my Dad bruised and cut from falls....yes it happens maybe once or twice but 4 times)? Please understand me I'm not criticising the staff, but the fact that there weren't enough of them around on a very busy large ward where the patients needed more attention and care than they could possibly give. Of course things go wrong. Vulnerable confused elderly need constant observing and there were not the staff available to do it. The most upsetting thing for me was mealtimes. I used to stay as much as I could to help my Dad with his food and drinks which the staff were glad of. But others weren't so lucky and often I saw the caterers bring food and later take it away almost untouched because no one had been around to assist with feeding. It really upset me and I did make a complaint. Again just not enough staff to have the time to sit with each patient for that amount of time and feed them.

When my Dad was admitted a couple months later, he was on a different ward. The Staff were very pleasant but mistakes did happen whereby there was a mix up between what the Doctor had asked to be done and what the nurse thought he wanted...in the end it didn't matter as my Dad died after a week. I was sensible enough to realise that the mix up with his treatment ultimately made no difference to the end result. I wont go into it all- its still too painful, but there was a post mortem and 4 months later an inquest into his death.

I dont mean to sound so negative, I know most of the time a brilliant job is done, but I do think some changes have to be made.

 

 

I think its the food and water thing that bothers me a lot - if you don't eat & drink exactly when they want the stuff is taken away

 

My mother -in-law had a pretty grim experience like that before she died - on the other hand her sister had pretty good treatment after a heart attack - but even then you got the impression that the staff were more concerned with the rules & regs rather than the patients

[Rob W 0]

Sorry to hear about your dad Bev, you're right in that the major problem with looking after patients, particularly the elderly, is the lack of nursing staff.

 

That article quotes the same example twice btw.

 

And Rob's opening comment isn't worth dignifying with a response.

 

 

just we get all the "angels working in hospital" line -they're not -it's the same mix of people you get everywhere else - some good, some bad

[Guest alex]

Not like Rob to refute a claim that hadn't even been introduced into the debate before he mentioned it.

[Toonraider 0]

Sorry to hear about your dad Bev, you're right in that the major problem with looking after patients, particularly the elderly, is the lack of nursing staff.

 

That article quotes the same example twice btw.

 

And Rob's opening comment isn't worth dignifying with a response.

 

Thanks Luke.

[GeeForce 0]

I'm not going to bite other than to say that Gemmill is spot on - there will always be a small percentage of nurses/doctors/teachers/lawyers/binmen/add-any-other-occupation that are thoroughly incompetent. They need to be weeded out and struck off to make sure they're never allowed to 'look after' people again. The vast majority of us are competent and conscientious but it's not a good story to talk about those nurses that make a positive difference to patients lives. It is totally unacceptable for patients to be treated in the way described in the article, but there will always be people in all professions who act outside of their Code of Conduct.

Furthermore, you will always have patients/customers etc, especially the older generation, who have far too much time on thier hands and subsequently complain about the tinniest little things. Does the article say how many of these compliants result in disciplinary action etc? Couldn't be bothered to read it as just read the whole Berlusconi thing on the other thread.

[LeazesMag 0]

remeber this next time nurses and doctors are whining about their salaries

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12453248

 

The NHS is failing to treat elderly patients in England with care, dignity and respect, an official report says.

 

The Health Service Ombudsman came to the conclusion after carrying out an in-depth review. The ombudsman, which deals with serious complaints against the NHS, said the patients - aged over 65 - suffered unnecessary pain, neglect and distress.

 

Charities said the findings were "sickening", while the government admitted improvement was needed. Of nearly 9,000 complaints made to the ombudsman last year, 18% were about the care of older people. In total, it accepted 226 cases for investigation - twice as many as for all the other age groups combined.

 

The report concluded there was a gulf between the principles and values of the NHS and the reality being experienced by older patients. And the ombudsman, which is called in once a complaint cannot be resolved by individual NHS trusts, said the fact there was an ageing population made it even more essential that the concerns were dealt with.

Several themes became clear from the ombudsman's analysis. Half the people featured did not consume adequate food or water during their time in hospital.

 

After being admitted to hospital with severe abdominal and back pains, Mr D was diagnosed with advanced stomach cancer. He asked to be discharged so he could die at home. But when his daughter arrived to collect him, she found him sitting behind a closed curtain in distress. He had been left for several hours, was in pain, desperate to go to the toilet and unable to ask for help because he was so dehydrated that he could not speak or swallow. The emergency button had been placed out of his reach, his drip had been removed, fallen and had leaked all over the floor.

 

At home, his family discovered Mr D had not been given the right pain relief. His daughter said later: "It was as if he didn't exist." After investigating the case, the ombudsman found the trust had failed on a number of grounds.

 

Some were left in soiled or dirty clothes. One woman told the ombudsman how her aunt was taken on a long journey to a care home by ambulance. She arrived strapped to a stretcher and soaked with urine, dressed in unfamiliar clothing held up by paper clips, accompanied by bags of dirty laundry, much of which was not her own. Communication was also highlighted as a problem with one 82-year-old woman recalling how, on being discharged from hospital after minor surgery, she was frightened and unsure of how to get home. She asked the nurse to phone her daughter, but was told "this is not my job".

 

In another case, a cancer patient wanted to be discharged to die at home. When his daughter arrived to collect him, she found him sitting behind a closed curtain in distress. He had been left for several hours in pain and desperate to go to the toilet. He was unable to ask for help because he was so dehydrated that he could not speak or swallow.

 

Ann Abraham, the Health Service Ombudsman, said the accounts painted a picture of NHS provision that was "failing to meet even the most basic standards of care. These often harrowing accounts should cause every member of staff who reads this report to pause and ask themselves if any of their patients could suffer in the same way."

 

Michelle Mitchell, of Age UK, said: "The inhumane treatment of older people described in this report is sickening and should send shockwaves through the NHS and government."

 

And Katherine Murphy, chief executive of the Patients Association, added the report echoed the findings of research her group had done. How many reports do we have to have before anything will change and patients will stop suffering?"

 

Nigel Edwards, chief executive of the NHS Confederation, which represents NHS trusts, said the cases highlighted were "completely unacceptable". But he added: "It is of course important to put these examples in perspective. The NHS sees over a million people every 36 hours and the overwhelming majority say they receive good care."

 

too many undertrained foreigners. And too much government money spent on fuckers who shouldn't be here either.

Edited February 15, 2011 by LeazesMag

[LeazesMag 0]

Sorry to hear about your dad Bev, you're right in that the major problem with looking after patients, particularly the elderly, is the lack of nursing staff.

 

That article quotes the same example twice btw.

 

And Rob's opening comment isn't worth dignifying with a response.

 

 

just we get all the "angels working in hospital" line -they're not -it's the same mix of people you get everywhere else - some good, some bad

 

sometimes you really make me wonder, you do.

 

Edit.

 

Sorry to hear about your dad TR.

Edited February 15, 2011 by LeazesMag

[The Fish 10460]

I just assumed that was some kind of numerical approximation. "I was at Asda and there was a nunnery of people in front of me in the queue."

You shouldn't assume, it's a bad habit to get into...

[Rob W 0]

Sorry to hear about your dad Bev, you're right in that the major problem with looking after patients, particularly the elderly, is the lack of nursing staff.

 

That article quotes the same example twice btw.

 

And Rob's opening comment isn't worth dignifying with a response.

 

 

just we get all the "angels working in hospital" line -they're not -it's the same mix of people you get everywhere else - some good, some bad

 

sometimes you really make me wonder, you do.

 

Edit.

 

Sorry to hear about your dad TR.

 

 

amazes me, it really does

 

everyone on here is happy to criticise just about anyone but mention hospital staff or teachers and its "whoooo - they are WONDERFUL"

[Rob W 0]

I'm not going to bite other than to say that Gemmill is spot on - there will always be a small percentage of nurses/doctors/teachers/lawyers/binmen/add-any-other-occupation that are thoroughly incompetent. They need to be weeded out and struck off to make sure they're never allowed to 'look after' people again. The vast majority of us are competent and conscientious but it's not a good story to talk about those nurses that make a positive difference to patients lives. It is totally unacceptable for patients to be treated in the way described in the article, but there will always be people in all professions who act outside of their Code of Conduct.

Furthermore, you will always have patients/customers etc, especially the older generation, who have far too much time on thier hands and subsequently complain about the tinniest little things. Does the article say how many of these compliants result in disciplinary action etc? Couldn't be bothered to read it as just read the whole Berlusconi thing on the other thread.

 

 

You know I think being fed occasionally and not suffering from dehydration is sommat hospitals should manage - its not the Foreign Legion -(or its not supposed to be anyway)

[Meenzer 15169]

everyone on here is happy to criticise just about anyone but mention hospital staff or teachers and its "whoooo - they are WONDERFUL"

 

They're clearly not doing much of a job treating your senility.

[sniffer 0]

A few bad eggs, Rob. As well you know. 9,000 complaints total to the ombudsman is not bad going given the nunnery of patients treated. That's a LOT of satisfied customers.

 

 

9,000 may be the number who actually registered a complaint. I wonder how many said, that experience was shite,but fuck it what's the point of complaining?

[LeazesMag 0]

Sorry to hear about your dad Bev, you're right in that the major problem with looking after patients, particularly the elderly, is the lack of nursing staff.

 

That article quotes the same example twice btw.

 

And Rob's opening comment isn't worth dignifying with a response.

 

 

just we get all the "angels working in hospital" line -they're not -it's the same mix of people you get everywhere else - some good, some bad

 

sometimes you really make me wonder, you do.

 

Edit.

 

Sorry to hear about your dad TR.

 

 

amazes me, it really does

 

everyone on here is happy to criticise just about anyone but mention hospital staff or teachers and its "whoooo - they are WONDERFUL"

 

you're quite wrong, I think hospital staff who do a good dedicated job deserve all they get for it and more.

 

I also think some teachers are obviously good teachers, but have no time for left wing overgrown students sitting in an ivory tower talking about idealistic politics that they themselves were brainwashed with by another ex hippy, neither of which has any understanding whatsoever of human nature and the real world out there.

 

Like you sometimes, when you harp on with your amnesty international rubbish and would let all the gangsters and convicts from half of the world let loose on our streets as "they have done nothing wrong yet", or "have served their time so leave them alone" bollocks.

Edited February 15, 2011 by LeazesMag

[Toonraider 0]

Sorry to hear about your dad Bev, you're right in that the major problem with looking after patients, particularly the elderly, is the lack of nursing staff.

 

That article quotes the same example twice btw.

 

And Rob's opening comment isn't worth dignifying with a response.

 

 

just we get all the "angels working in hospital" line -they're not -it's the same mix of people you get everywhere else - some good, some bad

 

sometimes you really make me wonder, you do.

 

Edit.

 

Sorry to hear about your dad TR.

 

Thanks LM. xx It was Aug 2008 when he died. (Not that I want to make this thread about my experiences)

 

Thing is, its the same in any role, you get the good and the bad. I have known some 'carers' in hospitals and nursing homes who are right cold, hard nasty people. Im afraid it happens. The ones I feel sorry for are the vulnerable who have no family or friends to keep an eye out for them.

[LeazesMag 0]

Sorry to hear about your dad Bev, you're right in that the major problem with looking after patients, particularly the elderly, is the lack of nursing staff.

 

That article quotes the same example twice btw.

 

And Rob's opening comment isn't worth dignifying with a response.

 

 

just we get all the "angels working in hospital" line -they're not -it's the same mix of people you get everywhere else - some good, some bad

 

sometimes you really make me wonder, you do.

 

Edit.

 

Sorry to hear about your dad TR.

 

Thanks LM. xx It was Aug 2008 when he died. ( Not that I want to make this thread about my experiences)

 

Thing is, its the same in any role, you get the good and the bad. I have known some 'carers' in hospitals and nursing homes who are right cold, hard nasty people. Im afraid it happens. The ones I feel sorry for are the vulnerable who have no family or friends to keep an eye out for them.

 

now that's a thought