Barcelona

[Guest Marshall-Baines]

Are you and CT on a shift system at the moment by the way?

 

Staggered you think a large number of kids wouldn't want it tbh. I'd have crawled a million miles over broken glass for the opportunity. Even if it was for Chelsea by the way, and Southampton done Shearer nee harm.

[Guest alex]

Not sure what's more tedious tbh. The imagined scenarios to back up his point or the 'expert' testimony.

 

Expert or not, it's true I'm nee Keegan but playing in university leagues/alliance leagues, coaching under 18 teams in England/High school teams in America etc. gives me more experience than most on here who think a wednesday night at the Pitz makes them an expert.

Nyff's been there and done it and seems to disagree with you.

 

Aye and what did he say? His dad pushed him, he gave up cos he was scared his knee would get hurt. In hindsight he wished he had stuck in.

He also said it was living the dream and he'd have run away from home if his parent's had tried to stop him from going when he was younger so I think it's fairly clear which side of the fence he sits on. I'm sure he'll clarify that if you ask him though.

Not sure what you're saying here though tbh. If you're railing against pushy parents that's one thing, if you're saying you'd stop your kid from going to Barcelona's academy even if they wanted to go that's quite another.

Edited February 11, 2011 by alex

[Kid Dynamite 7170]

Well it seems neither of us are going to change our minds so it would appear we are going round in circles

[Kid Dynamite 7170]

Not sure what's more tedious tbh. The imagined scenarios to back up his point or the 'expert' testimony.

 

Expert or not, it's true I'm nee Keegan but playing in university leagues/alliance leagues, coaching under 18 teams in England/High school teams in America etc. gives me more experience than most on here who think a wednesday night at the Pitz makes them an expert.

Nyff's been there and done it and seems to disagree with you.

 

Aye and what did he say? His dad pushed him, he gave up cos he was scared his knee would get hurt. In hindsight he wished he had stuck in.

He also said it was living the dream and he'd have run away from home if his parent's had tried to stop him from going when he was younger so I think it's fairly clear which side of the fence he sits on. I'm sure he'll clarify that if you ask him though.

Not sure what you're saying here though tbh. If you're railing against pushy parents that's one thing, if you're saying you'd stop your kid from going to Barcelona's academy even if they wanted to go that's quite another.

 

I don't believe I said that anywhere

[Guest alex]

Not sure what's more tedious tbh. The imagined scenarios to back up his point or the 'expert' testimony.

 

Expert or not, it's true I'm nee Keegan but playing in university leagues/alliance leagues, coaching under 18 teams in England/High school teams in America etc. gives me more experience than most on here who think a wednesday night at the Pitz makes them an expert.

Nyff's been there and done it and seems to disagree with you.

 

Aye and what did he say? His dad pushed him, he gave up cos he was scared his knee would get hurt. In hindsight he wished he had stuck in.

He also said it was living the dream and he'd have run away from home if his parent's had tried to stop him from going when he was younger so I think it's fairly clear which side of the fence he sits on. I'm sure he'll clarify that if you ask him though.

Not sure what you're saying here though tbh. If you're railing against pushy parents that's one thing, if you're saying you'd stop your kid from going to Barcelona's academy even if they wanted to go that's quite another.

 

I don't believe I said that anywhere

It was hardly the main point of my post like but I was asking you to clarify your view anyway, not putting words in your mouth.

[Kid Dynamite 7170]

I suppose the general gist is that it is wrong for any football club, not just Barcelona, to take 12 year old children away from their families in the name of football. I disagreed with the sentiment on the first page that Barcelona is doing the world some type of good deed in doing so, regardless of the set up.

[jaythesouthernmag 0]

Think we may going to the other end of the scale, sign 35 year old players, pay fuck all and maybe rent a bed sit where Pards can get busy with their Mrs

[Jimbo 175]

Another good read in the papers today regarding Barca is this interview with Xavi in the Mail:

 

Xavi Hernandez had given a man-of-the-match performance against Germany, and Spain were two minutes from reaching the World Cup final when the referee in last year’s semi-final asked him if he could have his shirt after the game. ‘If you blow the whistle a minute early, it’s yours,’ he replied.

On the verge of reaching the pinnacle of his career, the final where he would complete his full house of major honours, the sorcerer supreme of Barcelona and Spain’s magical midfields, the most unassuming of world beaters, still wasn’t taking things too seriously.

Listening to him talk about his English football heroes ahead of next week’s visit to London, it’s obvious the sport he loves and demystifies so eloquently is still, first and foremost, just a game to him — one which he and his pals just happen to play better than anybody else in the world.

 

 

His face lights up first when he is told the story of Wayne Rooney getting up from his couch to give Barca a one-man standing ovation in his living room as he watched them beat Real Madrid 5-0 last November, and then when he reels off the names of his current Premier League favourites.

‘Rooney, Scholes, Cesc (Fabregas), Nasri and Giggs,’ he says, adding: ‘I was also a big fan of John Barnes, Chris Waddle and Matt Le Tissier. And although it is a different style, I liked the Paul Ince and Roy Keane partnership Manchester United had. They would have been my team had I moved to England.’

Paul Scholes receives special praise: ‘In the last 15 to 20 years the best central midfielder that I have seen — the most complete — is Scholes. I have spoken with Xabi Alonso about this many times. Scholes is a spectacular player who has everything.

 

Full name: Xavier Hernandez i Creus.

Age: 31.

Position: Midfielder.

Club: Barcelona (Debut: 1998;

557 appearances; 56 goals).

Club Honours: 5 x La Liga (1999, 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010); Copa Del Rey (2009);

2 x Champions League (2006, 2009); European Super Cup (’09); FIFA Club World Cup (’09).

Country: Spain (Debut 2000: 98 caps; 12 goals).

National Honours: Euro 2008; World Cup 2010.

Personal Honours: 2 x Ballon d’Or 3rd place (09, 10); Euro 2008 Player of the Tournament.

 

 

‘He can play the final pass, he can score, he is strong, he never gets knocked off the ball and he doesn’t give possession away. If he had been Spanish then maybe he would have been valued more.’

Xavi won the World Cup aged 30, one year older than Scholes when he retired from international football feeling undervalued by the then England coach Sven Goran Eriksson.

So why is the pass master, so revered in Spain, often discarded in England? For Xavi it starts in the stands with the difference between English and Spanish football culture.

‘You are a nation of warriors,’ he says. ‘If I go to Liverpool’s ground and someone puts the ball into the area and Carragher hammers it out of play then the fans applaud. In the Nou Camp you would never be applauded for that.

‘It’s a different culture that values different things. Here if they see you are afraid when you are in possession then you get whistled. It’s the world in reverse.

‘I do see it changing slightly. Before, the typical No 9 in England was a Crouch or a Heskey and it was a long ball from the back from a Terry or a Carragher and nothing in between.’

 

So a shift in emphasis is needed but it shouldn’t come completely at the expense of the traditional uncompromising English centre half, says Xavi.

‘I don’t want to be misunderstood. I have huge admiration for both Terry and Carragher. We have (Carles) Puyol here. Technically he is not the best player in the squad but he is a great defender. Players like Terry and Carragher are very necessary but they have to adapt to the team as opposed to the team adapting to them. In some ways what these players do has even more merit because to me it comes naturally.

 

‘For Iniesta, Messi and Rooney it comes naturally, but for them it is much more difficult to lift the head and play a pass. But they should have to adapt to the more technically gifted players, not the other way around.’

A ‘skill -over- strength’ revolution is mooted every time England fail at a World Cup, but Xavi says a radical overhaul of values would mean nothing unless it started at kids’ level.

 

‘You have to find the players who have the technical ability right from the off as Barcelona do,’ he says.

‘Other teams look for young players who are tall, big and strong. There are teams here in Catalunya who at the under 10s level will beat Barca’s under 10s.

‘But from that Barca under 10s team you will end up getting three footballers and from the under 10s of the other team not even one will make it. They are already thinking about winning instead of unearthing the technically gifted players which is Barcelona’s priority.

‘You spot a youngster who can lift his head and play a first-time pass and you think, “He’s worth something, let’s have him come and train with us”.’

 

The fact that the Barca philosophy is drilled into players before they are even teenagers is what then gives Barcelona the edge over other sides who attempt to play the same way.

 

‘Watching Arsenal is almost like watching Barca. Everything goes through Cesc and Nasri,’ says Xavi.

‘But the difference is that at Arsenal each player is a product of whatever youth system he came through. Here we have players who have been at the club for 10 or 12 years and that is the difference — everything comes automatically.

 

ON THE ENGLISH WAY

'You are a nation of warriors. Carragher and Terry are your equal to Carles Puyol'

 

ON THE BARCELONA WAY

'From the age of 10, they make you think of the shame of losing the ball'

 

ON BEATING REAL 5-0

'They hardly touched the ball, and we stood in the dressing room clapping ourselves for a minute'

‘Here they make you think from day one. The first thing you do when you join this club is rondo (the passing drill with one player trying to win the ball back and three or four players passing one-touch between themselves). It’s think, think, think, and it teaches you the responsibility of keeping the ball and the shame of losing it.

‘You lift your head before you receive the ball, you look to see if you are in space, and who else is in space, and you play the ball first time. Modern football is so quick that two touches means too slow.’

 

Arsenal remain the closest thing to Barcelona in English football, but their Barca-Lite tag is a generous one after six years without a trophy. Would such a drought be tolerated at the Nou Camp?

 

‘If you go two years without winning things here then you have to change everything,’ says Xavi. ‘But you change the people, not the ideology. The philosophy you can’t ever lose. The fans here are not going to understand a team that sits back and plays on the counter-attack.’

Back in 2008 Barcelona had gone two years without winning anything and rumours circulated that Xavi might be part of a clear-out.

‘When Ronaldinho and Deco left there was talk of “Sell Xavi to help us bring Cesc”, but along came Pep (Guardiola) and he said that he did not see a Barcelona without me. That was the end of it.’

 

Next week’s opponents, Arsenal, may well have been his most suitable destination although he believes he would have adapted to any team and thrived with the passion of Premier League crowds.

‘I have never seen anything like the supporters there. We won 3-1 at Liverpool once and we were applauded off the pitch, and Liverpool were as well. All the players who go to England to play come back saying wonderful things about it, the fans, the people. I think I would have liked it.’

 

 

‘Who knows what would have happened if we had drawn that third game. They might have said, “This guy can’t carry on”. But I knew straightaway that Pep would be successful. He would be a success anywhere in the world,’ says Xavi. ‘Intelligence is being able to adapt to anything and Pep is very intelligent.

‘Normally a coach needs two or three years — he is a one-off. When we signed him I just thought, “Madre mia, we are going to go off like a shot”. He is so persistent.

‘If he was a musician he would be a very good musician, if he was a psychologist, he would be a very good psychologist. He expects the maximum from himself and that rubs off on others.’

 

And it’s the football demanded by Guardiola and not just the results garnered by it that Xavi is so enamoured with.

‘We go out from the first moment looking for the ball and looking to put pressure on the opposition. If you are not going to pass the ball then why play the game. That is not football in my opinion.

‘For another coach — someone like (Javier) Clemente or (Fabio) Capello — they may have another idea of football but it is good that the Barcelona idea works. What were Holland looking for in the World Cup final? A Robben counter-attack? Penalties? We won a lot of games 1-0 but it was the opposition that were boring, not us.’

 

The smothering tactics used by the Dutch are copied, with less and less success, every week in La Liga but Xavi has learned to live with the close attention.

‘I spend the entire 90 minutes looking for space on the pitch. I’m always between the opposition’s two holding midfielders and thinking, “The defence is here so I get the ball and I go there to where the space is”.’

His team-mates make it easy for him, he says. ‘My job is to pass the ball, and I have Messi, Iniesta, Pedro, Villa and Alves all showing for passes. It gets to the point where I think they are going to get annoyed with me because I have played three passes without giving the ball to Messi or that Alves has gone forward three times and I have not given it to him once. When Messi is not in the game he switches off!’

The gap that Barcelona have now created between themselves and the rest was never so obvious as in November last year with that 5-0 win over Real Madrid so appreciated by Rooney.

 

‘It is a source of great pride that an extraordinary player like Rooney, someone who could play perfectly well in Barcelona’s system, feels that way,’ says Xavi.

‘The 5-0 was the best game I have ever played in. There are more important games like the World Cup final but the feeling of superiority was incredible — it is one thing to have it against another team but against Real Madrid? They hardly touched the ball. We gave ourselves a minute’s round of applause in the dressing room afterwards.’

 

 

Last year the Champions League held special importance for Barcelona precisely because the final was to be played at the home of their great rivals. This year Wembley provides the added spice.

‘It is all about nostalgia. Getting to the final is great wherever it is played but Wembley is special,’ says Xavi. ‘It’s special for everybody in football but for Barcelona more so because of our first European Cup.’

And to close, he recalls that night 19 years ago when Barcelona first held the trophy aloft. ‘I was only 12 years old and I was not allowed to go to London. My two brothers went and I cried to my parents but they said I was too young. I remember watching the (Ronald) Koeman goal at home on television. If we can get there again this time I will be able to make up for that.’

 

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...l#ixzz1DfEaVC7G

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

Playing devils advocate

 

[Nyff 0]

Not sure what's more tedious tbh. The imagined scenarios to back up his point or the 'expert' testimony.

 

Expert or not, it's true I'm nee Keegan but playing in university leagues/alliance leagues, coaching under 18 teams in England/High school teams in America etc. gives me more experience than most on here who think a wednesday night at the Pitz makes them an expert.

Nyff's been there and done it and seems to disagree with you.

 

Aye and what did he say? His dad pushed him, he gave up cos he was scared his knee would get hurt. In hindsight he wished he had stuck in.

He also said it was living the dream and he'd have run away from home if his parent's had tried to stop him from going when he was younger so I think it's fairly clear which side of the fence he sits on. I'm sure he'll clarify that if you ask him though.

Not sure what you're saying here though tbh. If you're railing against pushy parents that's one thing, if you're saying you'd stop your kid from going to Barcelona's academy even if they wanted to go that's quite another.

 

So, sorry, what is J69s viewpoint? I'm a bit lost in the argument with all these quote chains...

[Phil 6]

A very good read.

 

No idea how this turned into a debate about 12 year olds being snatched grinch style. Barca players are almost all local. I don't know if it's still in place but under 16's have to live in a clubs catchment area. If families are willing to move i dont see the issue.

 

I think every effort has already been made to improve the under 16's. We'd be better off running "coach the coach" days to improve the level of training in the whole area. Maybe even setting up a Newcastle United youth league. Where pitches and coaches are sponsored to ensure a higher standard.

 

 

Investment in the academy squad 16-18 has already shown it can produce players, so I'm sure its already on the radar.

[smoggeordie 0]

It's not rocket science. Good luck to Barcelona, they do almost everything right. In fact I can't think of anything they don't do right.

 

30m + Etoo for Ibrahimavich

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

at J69 saying I'd bollock my kids to the point of tears for missing a shot.

 

It's very simple. I grew up in the north-west of england, it's a very dull part of the world. If a kid got the chance to go from there to Barcelona to the best football academy in the world, with a chance of earning unimaginable amounts from football in the future, you think the best course of action would be to stop him so he can get kisses and cuddles? What a crock of shit. I am not someone who 'breathed and shit football', but I know what the best option is for a person in those circumstances.

As a parent, one of your main priorities should be raising your child so they become able to function independently as adults and make a good life for themselves. Smothering kids, as you suggest, will result in them becoming absolute shits, 'ooohhh my little princess'. They'll end up like a low-rent Paris Hilton, if such a thing were possible. They'll also probably have self-esteem problems and be incapable of functioning in an autonomous manner, because you've been too busy with the cuddle-wuddles and they have not had any life experience to build their character.

[Tom 14013]

As if Messi has 24 goals this season.

[ewerk 31203]

You would be surprised how many parents are living out their professional footballer fantasy vicariously through their kids. Some of the bollockings I've seen kids get cos they missed a shot etc. and seen them dragged back to their cars in tears would make you cringe. Half the posters on here come across like they would do the same tbh.

 

 

Once again, have you actually read the article?

[tinofbeans 91]

a reminder of what the barca youth system generated.

 

Xavi. the worlds best playmaker.

Iniesta, the worlds best all purpose attacking midfielder.

messi.....

Puyol one of the top5 centrebacks in world football today.

Pique, rapidly emeging from Puyols shadow...

Valdes (ok not so good but still a multiple league title winer).

Sergio busquets, effectively the new makalele.

 

 

 

nice.

[citizenerased 0]

You would be surprised how many parents are living out their professional footballer fantasy vicariously through their kids. Some of the bollockings I've seen kids get cos they missed a shot etc. and seen them dragged back to their cars in tears would make you cringe. Half the posters on here come across like they would do the same tbh.

 

 

Once again, have you actually read the article?

 

Judging by his post's in this thread he seems to have got it into his head that Barcelona scouts tiptoe through the night, breaking into childrens bedrooms, stuffing them into sacks and taking them away to football concentration camps... so, I'm going to guess no.

[Kid Dynamite 7170]

As if Messi has 24 goals this season.

 

I have an uncle with aspergers!!!!

[Tooj 17]

You would be surprised how many parents are living out their professional footballer fantasy vicariously through their kids. Some of the bollockings I've seen kids get cos they missed a shot etc. and seen them dragged back to their cars in tears would make you cringe. Half the posters on here come across like they would do the same tbh.

 

 

Once again, have you actually read the article?

 

Judging by his post's in this thread he seems to have got it into his head that Barcelona scouts tiptoe through the night, breaking into childrens bedrooms, stuffing them into sacks and taking them away to football concentration camps... so, I'm going to guess no.

[Sonatine 11542]

You would be surprised how many parents are living out their professional footballer fantasy vicariously through their kids. Some of the bollockings I've seen kids get cos they missed a shot etc. and seen them dragged back to their cars in tears would make you cringe. Half the posters on here come across like they would do the same tbh.

 

 

Once again, have you actually read the article?

 

Judging by his post's in this thread he seems to have got it into his head that Barcelona scouts tiptoe through the night, breaking into childrens bedrooms, stuffing them into sacks and taking them away to football concentration camps... so, I'm going to guess no.

 

 

[Kid Dynamite 7170]

A very good read.

 

No idea how this turned into a debate about 12 year olds being snatched grinch style. Barca players are almost all local. I don't know if it's still in place but under 16's have to live in a clubs catchment area. If families are willing to move i dont see the issue.

 

I think every effort has already been made to improve the under 16's. We'd be better off running "coach the coach" days to improve the level of training in the whole area. Maybe even setting up a Newcastle United youth league. Where pitches and coaches are sponsored to ensure a higher standard.

 

 

Investment in the academy squad 16-18 has already shown it can produce players, so I'm sure its already on the radar.

 

Agreed. All football clubs in this country run academy's for kids who go 3 nights a week and play on a weekend. Why can't Barcelona set up coaching schools around Spain? I'm not going to be convinced that residential coaching for 12 year old's is a good plan. The players arent all local either

 

Central to that is La Masia, the 'chalet' adjacent to the Nou Camp stadium where 60 top talents - those whose families live in remote parts of Spain or abroad - reside in the hope of making the first team. Just 12 of the kids sleep in the building. The rest have dormitories in the first floor of the stadium, a mere 30 yards away

 

The article pretty much backs up my point that so many of you are happy to dismiss as me being some sort of football neanderthal who is crazy for doubting the morality of moving kids away from their families to benefit the football club. If you believe for one minute Barcelona are doing this out of some type of loyalty to the children of Spain then you want your head checking. They want success, they want to be better than Real Madrid and they want to fill the Nou Camp every game. Doesn't sound like the players were all brimming with joy at living in a dorm inside a football ground either does it?

 

"Do we have problems of adaptation with some kids? Obviously. They come here aged 12 and are away from their families. It's difficult but it's part of the process.

 

"For Iniesta, the first months were a real struggle. He missed his family, 700km away in Albacete, terribly.

 

"Leo Messi also. His mother and brother were in Argentina. He was only 12, had growth problems and couldn't play official matches for a year because of a documentation problem. It was soul-destroying for him.

 

"Victor Valdes had to go home after a season. He missed his family so much

 

And as for my point about pushy parents and 0.1% off the kids making the grade . . . I did read it thanks. I just paid a little more attention to the negative aspects that were glossed over because . . . well look how good Messi is!!!

 

Outside the windows, the only thing the talented interns can see during their long hours of study and additional home teaching, all paid for by the club, is the Nou Camp. A dream within touching distance and yet so far. Only a fraction make it to the very top.

 

Competition is fierce and, once deemed good enough to enter the youth set-up, some pushy parents become desperate for their offspring to continue right to the top. That is why the club has banned mums and dads from training.

 

This place has been going for 32 years by the way. Lets hope we dont have to wait another 32 years for a few decent players to come through together.

[Tooj 17]

I honestly love everything about Barcelona as a club, I always have done ever since I was a bairn.

 

From growing up seeing Romario, Stoitchkov and Laudrup tear it up on Eurgoals every Monday night.

 

To seeing a young Ronaldo decimate teams by himself in what I can only describe as showing the greatest ability from a player in my lifetime.

 

To the current crop who play the greatest brand of possession football I've ever seen. The thing that makes them truly great though, is not just their ability on the ball, it's their ability off the ball as well. Every player works hard for the team, you see the so-called superstars such as Messi, Villa, Xavi and Iniesta all pressing the opposition into mistake, which can't be said of their counterparts in Madrid. You certainly don't see Ronaldo putting in anywhere near as much effort as Messi.

 

All of this was born out of the philosophies of one man - Johan Cruyff. I don't think there's a person involved in football who I respect more, simply for how he believes the game should be played, and no matter what, he always lives by these principles. For example, his scathing attack on the Dutch team that got to the World Cup final. The game would certainly be a much better place if there were more people like Cruyff involved.

[Tooj 17]

"A few decent players".

[StevenL 0]

"A few decent players".

 

It's as if he thinks that players have only "made it" if they're playing week in-week out in Barcas first team.

 

Dunno if it's being mentioned in this topic yet, but the Daily Mail ran an atricle a few years ago about the World Player of the Year and had a sly dig at Xavi's inclusion, which was fucking stupid at the time, but makes them look even more stupid considering how much he's achived since then. They've finally admitted they were wrong the other day when they had a 2 page interview with him

[Tooj 17]

Imagine how hard it would be to pick the forwards in a Barca team of the last 20 years?

 

They've had some corkers - Ronaldo, Romario, Stoitchkov, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Messi, Kluivert, Eto'o..