The F1 2011 thread

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Interesting. And I imagine Hamilton's driving style would appeal to the Ferrari hardcore.

He has moments similar to two massive Ferrari heroes Gilles Villeneuve and Jean Alesi, who both made their names driving balls-out in recalcitrant number 27's.

I was actually reminded of Gilles when Lewis was trying to get back to the pits with his back wheel hanging off the corner of the car. Very Zandvoort 1979.

 

 

To some, yes. But I think they got used to the F1 machine that was Schumacher. IMO I think Ferrari want Vettel but may settle for Webber or Hamilton.

I think Ferrari would love Vettel at some point but I bet Mercedes would like to build a team round him too once Schumi retires again.

[Craig 6700]

Kobayashi reminds me very much of Alesi (and Villeneuve for that matter).

 

You're right about Merc will want Vettel. I don't think he'd leave Red Bull (in their current form) for anyone other than Ferrari though.

 

News just in, the result has been upheld. Thank god common sense prevailed.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Kobayashi reminds me very much of Alesi (and Villeneuve for that matter).

 

You're right about Merc will want Vettel. I don't think he'd leave Red Bull (in their current form) for anyone other than Ferrari though.

 

News just in, the result has been upheld. Thank god common sense prevailed.

I quite like Kobayashi he's fond of an ambitious over-take, but he let himself down today. Second at the final re-start and ended up 7th or 8th.

 

Vettel has no reason to leave Red Bull as long as Adrian Newey is there.

[Craig 6700]

Vettel has no reason to leave Red Bull as long as Adrian Newey is there.

 

Same has been said of many drivers over the years who've driven Newey cars but who moved on. But I get your point.

 

That said I think Vettel's biggest tie to Red Bull is Helmut Marko rather than Newey.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Lewis has previously felt very confident and secure with McLaren. The way he handled all Alonso's mind games was admirable for someone so young at that time. But I think since Jenson joined the team there has been a slight shift, JB is a very special person and the team clearly think alot of him....I really think this has shaken Lewis a little. Plus he hasn't got his father there for support, it must have an effect on him.

Button comes across as genuinely likeable, whereas Hamilton says all the right things (up until Monaco) but in the style of a corporate PR programmed robot.

 

It's no surprise to me that the team are warming towards Jenson, which must hurt Lewis bearing in mind he's been in and around McLaren since he was a kid. And as well as his Dad not being there, Ron Dennis (his other rock) isn't there as much anymore either.

[Tom 14013]

Cracking race.

[Craig 6700]

Lewis has previously felt very confident and secure with McLaren. The way he handled all Alonso's mind games was admirable for someone so young at that time. But I think since Jenson joined the team there has been a slight shift, JB is a very special person and the team clearly think alot of him....I really think this has shaken Lewis a little. Plus he hasn't got his father there for support, it must have an effect on him.

Button comes across as genuinely likeable, whereas Hamilton says all the right things (up until Monaco) but in the style of a corporate PR programmed robot.

 

It's no surprise to me that the team are warming towards Jenson, which must hurt Lewis bearing in mind he's been in and around McLaren since he was a kid. And as well as his Dad not being there, Ron Dennis (his other rock) isn't there as much anymore either.

 

All the signs I've seen this season from Lewis is that he appears tired of the 'best buddies' act that is protrayed to the media and wants to assert himself as the better driver in the team. Trouble is he's trying too hard and ending up looking like a dickhead in the process.

 

The interview that sticks in my mind was just before the Australian GP when the pair of them were sat before the BBC cameras and whereas JB was given responses as he did last season (I want to win but if I can't I want Lewis to win), Lewis was giving altogether different messages (if I can't win I don't care who does).

 

It was as though during the winter he thought to himself that he'd done the PR thing but that now he was unleashing the true Lewis.

 

Ultimately I'm expecting Lewis to be the first to leave the team. Button I think will retire from the sport as a McLaren driver.

[Billy Castell 0]

I just want Lewis to regain that ability to attack again. He's been making daft errors for a while now, trying too hard and so on. He has lost his concentration and focus, and probably lost his joy for racing with the pressure. If it means taking a year out then so be it. I think he won't be at McLaren all his career, but he won't go for a couple of years. Then we'll see a driver merry-go-round.

 

The race was brilliant apart from the interval, and the rolling start. Shame Kobiyashi got caught out by Vettel every safety car.

 

And wasn't there a story saying VW might make an engine a while ago?

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

And wasn't there a story saying VW might make an engine a while ago?

They considered it, then decided to make the Bugatti Veyron instead to showcase their engineering talent.

 

I think with Audi at Le Mans and the DTM, Seat in touring cars and Skoda in rallying the Volkswagen group have got their fingers in enough motorsport pies. Think they enter the Touareg in the Paris-Dakar too.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Hamilton in fresh Red Bull link

By Jonathan Noble

 

McLaren looks set to have a fight on its hands to keep Lewis Hamilton on board for the long term after the British driver sounded out Red Bull Racing about future plans in Canada last weekend, AUTOSPORT has learned.

 

During an ultimately difficult event for Hamilton, who had gone into the Montreal grand prix as favourite for victory but suffered a troubled qualifying and an early exit from the race, fresh speculation emerged about what he intends to do after his current contract ends in 2012.

 

AUTOSPORT can reveal that Hamilton met for private talks with Red Bull Racing chief Christian Horner at the team's office buildings on Saturday evening - where the two spent at least 15 minutes together chatting in private.

 

Although it is not known exactly what they talked about, as one Red Bull source cheekily dismissed the get-together as nothing more than a 'social visit', it would be unlikely that the pair did not discuss future intentions.

 

There is no suggestion that it was anything more than a preliminary chat, or that the talks will definitely develop into something in the future, but Hamilton's actions are of intrigue amid signs of growing frustration at the competitiveness of McLaren at a time when Hamilton is in the prime of his career.

 

His crashes in Monaco and Canada, which have led to criticism of his mindset, are borne of the fact that he has to push so hard to try and beat Red Bull Racing.

 

Hamilton had started the season as Sebastian Vettel's main threat for title glory, and his challenge for the championship had looked strong when he grabbed victory in the Chinese Grand Prix.

 

However, since then McLaren has not made the progress that it had hoped with its car and Hamilton's difficulties in Monaco and Montreal – two races he had been expected to win – have left him 76 points adrift of Vettel in the standings.

 

The performance in Canada last weekend was much more of a disappointment because he had gone into the weekend as clear favourite for the victory – only for McLaren to have made an error with the drag levels it needed to take the fight to Red Bull Racing and Ferrari in qualifying.

 

Longer term, Hamilton and his new management team of Simon Fuller's XIX Entertainment are widely known to be weighing up future intentions for when his current contract ends after 2012, and there must be some thought being given to the fact that McLaren has not been a pacesetter in F1 since his title season in 2008.

 

Hamilton's only real options for the future, in terms of giving him the best chance of having a frontrunning car, are either to remain at McLaren, or make the switch to Ferrari or Red Bull Racing.

 

Ferrari appears to be a closed door, however, with Fernando Alonso having signed a long-term deal and the Spaniard likely to be resistant to renewing a team partnership that turned so sour when he and Hamilton were together at McLaren in 2007.

 

And although Red Bull Racing would appear to be an unlikely destination, with the team currently so focused on Vettel, the capture of a top-line driver like Hamilton for 2013 could be viewed as a huge coup for Red Bull chief Dietrich Mateschitz.

 

McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh has played down talk of Hamilton's frustrations, however, and thinks there are no worries about his driver's mindset at the moment.

 

"I think he has had an unfortunate run," said Whitmarsh when asked by AUTOSPORT about Hamilton's current difficulties. "But I think he has to be the racer he is, and I am sure he will be. I am sure he is disappointed, but he is enjoying the win for the team."

 

Hamilton's latest links with Red Bull Racing are nothing new and earlier this season, on the back of McLaren's troubled pre-season testing programme, there was already speculation suggesting that the driver and team could get together from 2013.

 

At the time, however, Hamilton insisted that his focus remained wholly on McLaren – although he did not rule out a potential switch in the future.

 

"Of course, I'm going to be in Formula 1 for some time, and you never know which way the wind will take you," he said in March. "As I said, for now, I'm committed to trying to make this team the most successful it can be, and I feel we can do that."

 

Red Bull Racing also moved at the time to play down the prospects of partnering Vettel and Hamilton – although the idea was not totally dismissed.

 

"It's difficult to see how you could have two drivers of Lewis and Sebastian's calibre under one roof," said Horner, during a media briefing at Silverstone.

 

"There tends to be fireworks, as we saw with Fernando Alonso and Lewis. So we're very happy with the line-up that we have and we'll see how things evolve."

 

Despite the difficulties Hamilton is facing in his current situation, those who know the former world champion well have moved quickly to suggest he will lift himself out of the troubles he is facing.

 

Mercedes-Benz motorsport boss Norbert Haug, who has helped guide Hamilton's career for many years, thinks that the Briton is simply going through the kind of difficult phases that all drivers experience in their careers.

 

"I understand Lewis perfectly and I will defend him," Haug told AUTOSPORT. "He is a good driver, he is a friend and I do not share the criticism that is on him.

 

"We will support him and he is a great driver. There are phases that you have to go through. There are difficult times but he will deliver okay and he is one of the great guys in the field. Of course he gets a lot of criticism, but this will make him only stronger."

 

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92327

[Billy Castell 0]

Could he cope with being in Vettel's team and risk being the 2nd driver? Any Newey-designed car will be up there, but he'd have to fight to get the 100% attention of the Krauts that own/race for that team.

 

And it's a shame about VW not following through with an F1 engine. I always liked it when there were a range of engines for some reason. Now there's only Cosworth, Renault, Ferrari and Mercedes. Long term, I also wonder who McLaren will use when their Merc contract is up.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Billy Castell

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Could he cope with being in Vettel's team and risk being the 2nd driver? Any Newey-designed car will be up there, but he'd have to fight to get the 100% attention of the Krauts that own/race for that team.

 

And it's a shame about VW not following through with an F1 engine. I always liked it when there were a range of engines for some reason. Now there's only Cosworth, Renault, Ferrari and Mercedes. Long term, I also wonder who McLaren will use when their Merc contract is up.

 

This illustrates that very well: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/03/08/mich...-f1-in-numbers/

[Billy Castell 0]

It just shows what a genius Newey is. Whatever regulations seem to come in, he seems to come up with some sort of double exhuast diffuser thing that takes off half a second a lap at least. It makes you wonder what cars would be like now, had all the gadgets Mansell's 1992 car had were not banned, and they kept those regulations.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

It just shows what a genius Newey is. Whatever regulations seem to come in, he seems to come up with some sort of double exhuast diffuser thing that takes off half a second a lap at least. It makes you wonder what cars would be like now, had all the gadgets Mansell's 1992 car had were not banned, and they kept those regulations.

Can you imagine if Schumacher at his peak had had a seat in a Newey car?

[Craig 6700]

Schumacher in a bullet-proof Ferrari was bad enough. Ferrari would never have replaced Byrne with Newey though, at least not in the Schumacher years...

 

Commenting on Michael, it's well known I'm not his biggest fan but think my true feelings were summed up perfectly by someone else at work today:

 

He has the statistics and you don't get them without being a fucking good driver but he's not streets ahead of other drivers in the history of the sport as the figures suggest. For the first 4-5 years of the new millenium we had the combination of the only 'world class' driver in the field, driving by far the best car which was also by far the most reliable (ridiculously reliable when you think about it) on the tyres which has been specifically designed for that car. To top it off he had a watertight contract which stated that he would provail over the only man who stood a chance of beating him... his team-mate.

 

If Michael hadn't won those championships in 2000-2004 then his own abilities would surely have to have been called into question. Brundle has gone on record to say that at least 3 of his championships were on a plate and I think I have to agree with him.

 

Today I believe we have at least 3 'world class' drivers in the field with another 4 or 5 who aren't far off it. Makes for far better racing and a much more enjoyable sport. There were times in 2002 when even I was switching off - it was so bloody boring.

[Craig 6700]

From what I've heard VW are investigating the possiblility of hooking up with McLaren when their Mercedes deal runs dry. Remains to be seen if there is any mileage in that one.

[Craig 6700]

Doesn't matter what the sport is, Fatty Samuel seems to excel at reeling off bullshit. What a load of bollocks!

 

Button and Hamilton are a team, but not mates

 

The sight of Lewis Hamilton's car disappearing on the back of a tow truck, red warning light flashing murkily through the mist and spray, may now be the defining image of a blighted season.

 

It will be scant consolation for him that Jenson Button, his colleague, executed one of the greatest drives in the history of Formula 1 to win the Canadian Grand Prix.

 

This is a team sport in name only.

 

For Hamilton, his McLaren co-worker was the source of his greatest frustration on Sunday.

 

He was the guy that took him out of the race, and almost certainly the championship, too.

 

There would seem to be no way back for Hamilton now, although Button's incredible victory - he overtook Sebastian Vettel on the last lap, having made six pit stops to the German's three - temporarily lifted the Addams family size cloud hovering over the McLaren motor home.

 

For Hamilton, though, with hopes so high, his race ended in the most infuriating fashion. Team collision.

 

Hamilton was derailed by his supposed ally, in a moment that had McLaren employees contemplating two pieces of wreckage: that of Hamilton's suspension and perhaps their dream partnership, too.

 

The Spanish villa in which Mr and Mrs Giggs are working out some local difficulties would not have contained as much bottled-up tension as the house of McLaren when Hamilton and Button came together at the start of lap eight yesterday.

 

In doing so, they committed one of the cardinal sins of motor sport, and were roundly condemned by most professional observers.

 

Yet is that fair?

 

Button recovered brilliantly to deliver arguably the drive of his life, while Hamilton is inescapably undermined by a car that is inferior to the Red Bull of Vettel.

 

Each grand prix therefore becomes a story of his struggle to beat these odds, by taking increasing chances, by racing with an aggression that some find unpalatable, by driving on the ragged edge.

 

He is sneered at as an unreconstructed karter at the wheel of a Formula 1 car.

 

Yet, until Sunday, take Hamilton away and this season is Vettel's alone: a predictable procession of astute driving, technical excellence and good fortune.

 

Until Button's intervention, Hamilton was the only driver to beat Vettel to the chequered flag - with a superb drive of his own in China - and is so often the man doing the pushing, even in defeat.

 

It is a thankless task when car and driver are in harmony as Vettel and his Red Bull have been and, as Hamilton grows ever more desperate so his risk-taking increases.

 

'If you see a gap and don't go for it, you are no longer a racing driver,' said Ayrton Senna, and if Hamilton is to be condemned for living this way, then what is the point in any of it?

 

The crowds that flocked to the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve had already been deprived of one of F1's greatest spectacles - the charge to the first corner - when the race was started behind the safety car.

 

Take Hamilton's bravura behind the wheel away and large slices of yesterday's race would have consisted of Vettel leading little more than a parade.

 

'What is he doing?' Button asked, immediately after the crash.

 

Having taken out the headliner, he at least provided his own big finish.

 

Where do they go from here, McLaren's odd couple?

 

It depends on the sincerity of yesterday's post-mortem.

 

Button said he did not see Hamilton; Hamilton accepted his explanation. The win changed the agenda to a positive one, and McLaren will be thankful for that.

 

No doubt, from here the standard courtesies will be extended in the build-up to Silverstone, tensions will be played down and smiles fixed patiently on for the cameras.

 

The reality of Formula 1 is unchanged, however. Colleagues are unavoidably also rivals. They may be a team, but they are not mates.

 

Not in the conventional sense. Not as participants in true team sports pull together.

 

'Colliding with your team-mate is the one thing you want to avoid at all costs,' announced BBC analyst David Coulthard, in a moment of stunning perception.

 

He might as well have added that it is best not to reverse over the team principal's foot, or spark up a Cuban while refuelling.

 

Indeed, either might have been preferable to what happened on Sunday.

 

Some will argue it was an accident waiting to happen after Britain's world champions went head-to-head beneath the same constructor's flag.

 

The truth is they have accepted this challenge with great maturity.

 

Even with the relationship tested to the limit, Hamilton refused to entertain the idea that Button would have acted knowingly in Montreal.

 

Publicly, at least.

 

As Hamilton saw it, Button made a mistake coming into the final corner of lap seven, so he moved to pass him.

 

Halfway up, Button came across.

 

'Whether he saw me or not, I don't know,' Hamilton mused.

 

Then he hit the wall.

 

The DNA of a driver is programmed to pursue a single-minded goal, so behind the genial facade of a man like Button beats the heart of the fiercest competitor who was never going to be happy with a role as Hamilton's support act.

So it proved in Montreal.

 

Hamilton's plight forgotten, Button was remorseless in pursuit of the prize.

 

The horrid driving conditions make for mitigating circumstances and Button is allowed to protect his position, but plainly an error was made.

 

Blame will be apportioned on both sides; to Button for simple carelessness, to Hamilton for another drive that his critics claim resembled The Cannonball Run.

 

He had already been involved in a tear-up with Mark Webber that had seen the Australian's Red Bull finish up facing the wrong way, and another with Michael Schumacher.

 

Yet Hamilton has spent a lot of time apologising of late - for his driving, for his opinions - but he should not have to apologise for this.

 

Button did; but then he was in a happy place by the end of the race and could afford to be generous.

 

Both men will continue to project an aura of mutual affection and supportiveness, all the while doing everything in their power to scramble first through the turn, to duck, dive and outmanoeuvre each other around every treacherous bend.

 

Because that is Formula 1; and that is why accidents happen.

 

Even between friends.

 

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaon...team-mates.html

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Schumacher in a bullet-proof Ferrari was bad enough. Ferrari would never have replaced Byrne with Newey though, at least not in the Schumacher years...

 

Commenting on Michael, it's well known I'm not his biggest fan but think my true feelings were summed up perfectly by someone else at work today:

 

He has the statistics and you don't get them without being a fucking good driver but he's not streets ahead of other drivers in the history of the sport as the figures suggest. For the first 4-5 years of the new millenium we had the combination of the only 'world class' driver in the field, driving by far the best car which was also by far the most reliable (ridiculously reliable when you think about it) on the tyres which has been specifically designed for that car. To top it off he had a watertight contract which stated that he would provail over the only man who stood a chance of beating him... his team-mate.

 

If Michael hadn't won those championships in 2000-2004 then his own abilities would surely have to have been called into question. Brundle has gone on record to say that at least 3 of his championships were on a plate and I think I have to agree with him.

 

Today I believe we have at least 3 'world class' drivers in the field with another 4 or 5 who aren't far off it. Makes for far better racing and a much more enjoyable sport. There were times in 2002 when even I was switching off - it was so bloody boring.

Didn't Ferrari got three whole seasons with no mechanical breakdowns? They certainly reaped the benefit of having unlimited testing, their own test track on the factory doorstep and an enormous budget in those days. You still need the right people to put it altogether of course, and Montezemolo / Todt / Brawn / Byrne / Schumacher were an invincible combination.

 

Re: the fat pig article; why do football journalists think they can get away with spouting off about a subject they clearly know nowt about in a national newspaper? Embarrassing tbh.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Schumacher in a bullet-proof Ferrari was bad enough. Ferrari would never have replaced Byrne with Newey though, at least not in the Schumacher years...

 

Commenting on Michael, it's well known I'm not his biggest fan but think my true feelings were summed up perfectly by someone else at work today:

 

He has the statistics and you don't get them without being a fucking good driver but he's not streets ahead of other drivers in the history of the sport as the figures suggest. For the first 4-5 years of the new millenium we had the combination of the only 'world class' driver in the field, driving by far the best car which was also by far the most reliable (ridiculously reliable when you think about it) on the tyres which has been specifically designed for that car. To top it off he had a watertight contract which stated that he would provail over the only man who stood a chance of beating him... his team-mate.

 

If Michael hadn't won those championships in 2000-2004 then his own abilities would surely have to have been called into question. Brundle has gone on record to say that at least 3 of his championships were on a plate and I think I have to agree with him.

 

Today I believe we have at least 3 'world class' drivers in the field with another 4 or 5 who aren't far off it. Makes for far better racing and a much more enjoyable sport. There were times in 2002 when even I was switching off - it was so bloody boring.

Didn't Ferrari got three whole seasons with no mechanical breakdowns? They certainly reaped the benefit of having unlimited testing, their own test track on the factory doorstep and an enormous budget in those days. You still need the right people to put it altogether of course, and Montezemolo / Todt / Brawn / Byrne / Schumacher were an invincible combination.

 

Re: the fat pig article; why do football journalists think they can get away with spouting off about a subject they clearly know nowt about in a national newspaper? Embarrassing tbh.

[Meenzer 15716]

Luca Badoer won them those titles.

[WordPlay 0]

Glad Button won!

 

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What a mug!

[Craig 6700]

#F1 Jenson Button has now been targeted by Ferrari as the 2009 world champion fails to sign a long term contract with McLaren

 

[Toonraider 0]

#F1 Jenson Button has now been targeted by Ferrari as the 2009 world champion fails to sign a long term contract with McLaren

 

 

 

Off to see the Senna film Tuesday night, only showing it the one night here so I'm glad I booked our tickets in advance!

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

#F1 Jenson Button has now been targeted by Ferrari as the 2009 world champion fails to sign a long term contract with McLaren

 

Nando & Jenson? Yes please!

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

#F1 Jenson Button has now been targeted by Ferrari as the 2009 world champion fails to sign a long term contract with McLaren

 

 

 

Off to see the Senna film Tuesday night, only showing it the one night here so I'm glad I booked our tickets in advance!

I'm sure you'll enjoy it TR.

 

Aside from the main story of the film, what stood out for me from the footage was: (i) how simple the steering wheels looked on the mid-eighties F1 cars, and drivers actually having to take their hand off the wheel to use a proper gear-change; and (ii) how far out of the cockpit their heads & shoulders were exposed. They were really vulnerable in comparison to modern F1 drivers.