NJS 4386 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 If the number of families is at an all time high and demand outstrips capacity and saturday was the best atmosphere since 'Tino', how does the correlation between familiies and shit atmosphere get passed off without any discussion? Not saying its wrong, just asking the question. See the difference between climate and weather..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marshall-Barnes Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 If the number of families is at an all time high and demand outstrips capacity and saturday was the best atmosphere since 'Tino', how does the correlation between familiies and shit atmosphere get passed off without any discussion? Not saying its wrong, just asking the question. To be fair as you as know I wasn't there to see the happy ending, but I think if there'd have been 20,000 in the ground it would've sounded like 100,000 given those set of circumstances. The family enclosure was half the size it is a few seasons ago, and the Milburn L7 used to contribute to the noise, but since they brought it all the way along it's just the corner who do all the work. I remember in the 80's/very early 90's and others will the Family Enclosure was half the East Stand benches nearest the Leazes. What the club are doing is no different from sticking families in the Old Gallowgate Corner, and Scoreboard and evicting every cunt else. Absolute scandal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4386 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 There are of course exceptions to the rule, but going to the match throughout your life is like going for a night out. Teens, lots of clubbing and going mental / Standing and singing in the singing section 20's, starting to feel a tad old but still give it a good go. Bit more tongue in cheek though. 30's, Clubbings over but still like to have a nice time at the local, but now starting to hope theres a nice seat waiting so you dont have to stand. 40's, Rather go for a nice civilised meal / Bar 1892 50's, Game of bingo at the social club / East stand. 46 - like your 30s but want to scream and swear as appropriate (ie every other word) and go fucking mental if we score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3997 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 If the number of families is at an all time high and demand outstrips capacity and saturday was the best atmosphere since 'Tino', how does the correlation between familiies and shit atmosphere get passed off without any discussion? Not saying its wrong, just asking the question. Chezney, if you are going to play the contrarian you can surely do better than this. Even Christmas Tree wouldn't have the temerity to pass this off Oh come on, was just asking a question. How can it be contrarian if i also state i am not saying the position is wrong? Well as you very well know correlation =/= causality, you might as well say he second half atmosphere was so good because Mr Marshall-Barnes left early Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 If the number of families is at an all time high and demand outstrips capacity and saturday was the best atmosphere since 'Tino', how does the correlation between familiies and shit atmosphere get passed off without any discussion? Not saying its wrong, just asking the question. See the difference between climate and weather..... Good answer and a great analogy. I think the change you fear has already passed and that the determination of a good atmosphere is much more complex and bizarre than just whether there are 600 or 6000 in a family enclosure. The role of expectations, social psychology, team performance, time of day, frustration, anger etc all still play a fundamental role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 If the number of families is at an all time high and demand outstrips capacity and saturday was the best atmosphere since 'Tino', how does the correlation between familiies and shit atmosphere get passed off without any discussion? Not saying its wrong, just asking the question. Chezney, if you are going to play the contrarian you can surely do better than this. Even Christmas Tree wouldn't have the temerity to pass this off Oh come on, was just asking a question. How can it be contrarian if i also state i am not saying the position is wrong? The atmosphere on Saturday would never have reached it's crescendo had it not been for the lads in the corner that kept singing through the whole game, even while we were four nowt down. The rest of the corner to my left towards the away fans are pro-active...the families to my righht are reactive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marshall-Barnes Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 It's ganna sound like one of them Under 15 games at Wembley in the 80's man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) If the number of families is at an all time high and demand outstrips capacity and saturday was the best atmosphere since 'Tino', how does the correlation between familiies and shit atmosphere get passed off without any discussion? Not saying its wrong, just asking the question. Chezney, if you are going to play the contrarian you can surely do better than this. Even Christmas Tree wouldn't have the temerity to pass this off Oh come on, was just asking a question. How can it be contrarian if i also state i am not saying the position is wrong? Well as you very well know correlation =/= causality, you might as well say he second half atmosphere was so good because Mr Marshall-Barnes left early Well i definitely wasnt trying to associate the better atmosphere with the increase in family numbers, just saying that it would be strange to blame the increase in family attendance on the worse atmosphere in the modern game compared to 20+ years ago. edit : wrong way round, ye knaa what i mean. Edited February 9, 2011 by ChezGiven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 If the number of families is at an all time high and demand outstrips capacity and saturday was the best atmosphere since 'Tino', how does the correlation between familiies and shit atmosphere get passed off without any discussion? Not saying its wrong, just asking the question. Chezney, if you are going to play the contrarian you can surely do better than this. Even Christmas Tree wouldn't have the temerity to pass this off Oh come on, was just asking a question. How can it be contrarian if i also state i am not saying the position is wrong? The atmosphere on Saturday would never have reached it's crescendo had it not been for the lads in the corner that kept singing through the whole game, even while we were four nowt down. The rest of the corner to my left towards the away fans are pro-active...the families to my righht are reactive. Well as i wasnt there i cant really argue but i have been there when the lads in the corner never shut up all game and the atmosphere was shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3997 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 If the number of families is at an all time high and demand outstrips capacity and saturday was the best atmosphere since 'Tino', how does the correlation between familiies and shit atmosphere get passed off without any discussion? Not saying its wrong, just asking the question. Chezney, if you are going to play the contrarian you can surely do better than this. Even Christmas Tree wouldn't have the temerity to pass this off Oh come on, was just asking a question. How can it be contrarian if i also state i am not saying the position is wrong? Well as you very well know correlation =/= causality, you might as well say he second half atmosphere was so good because Mr Marshall-Barnes left early Well i definitely wasnt trying to associate the better atmosphere with the increase in family numbers, just saying that it would be strange to blame the increase in family attendance on the worse atmosphere in the modern game compared to 20+ years ago. edit : wrong way round, ye knaa what i mean. Aye, the atmosphere was a lot better when the average age of attendees was lower -I'm all for increasing the number of kids going, it does seem that the club is doing it in the most aggravating way possible though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4386 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I think the change you fear has already passed and that the determination of a good atmosphere is much more complex and bizarre than just whether there are 600 or 6000 in a family enclosure. The role of expectations, social psychology, team performance, time of day, frustration, anger etc all still play a fundamental role. I fully accept that football has fundamentally changed and irreversibly so - I agree with SBTP that families per se is good for the game but over-focusing on them is a mistake in my view. This isn't all just about atmosphere - its about footballs place in the community as an outlet for tribalism and yes some aggression. I think claiming we're beyond the need for that outlet is naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I think the change you fear has already passed and that the determination of a good atmosphere is much more complex and bizarre than just whether there are 600 or 6000 in a family enclosure. The role of expectations, social psychology, team performance, time of day, frustration, anger etc all still play a fundamental role. I fully accept that football has fundamentally changed and irreversibly so - I agree with SBTP that families per se is good for the game but over-focusing on them is a mistake in my view. This isn't all just about atmosphere - its about footballs place in the community as an outlet for tribalism and yes some aggression. I think claiming we're beyond the need for that outlet is naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I think the change you fear has already passed and that the determination of a good atmosphere is much more complex and bizarre than just whether there are 600 or 6000 in a family enclosure. The role of expectations, social psychology, team performance, time of day, frustration, anger etc all still play a fundamental role. I fully accept that football has fundamentally changed and irreversibly so - I agree with SBTP that families per se is good for the game but over-focusing on them is a mistake in my view. This isn't all just about atmosphere - its about footballs place in the community as an outlet for tribalism and yes some aggression. I think claiming we're beyond the need for that outlet is naive. ? A fundamental change in the nature of football support has already occurred, not sure where a claim for being beyond a need for an outlet for tribalism or aggression was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I think the change you fear has already passed and that the determination of a good atmosphere is much more complex and bizarre than just whether there are 600 or 6000 in a family enclosure. The role of expectations, social psychology, team performance, time of day, frustration, anger etc all still play a fundamental role. I fully accept that football has fundamentally changed and irreversibly so - I agree with SBTP that families per se is good for the game but over-focusing on them is a mistake in my view. This isn't all just about atmosphere - its about footballs place in the community as an outlet for tribalism and yes some aggression. I think claiming we're beyond the need for that outlet is naive. ? A fundamental change in the nature of football support has already occurred, not sure where a claim for being beyond a need for an outlet for tribalism or aggression was made. Assumed it was a general point re: society's views on such matters rather than disagreeing with a point you were making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I think the change you fear has already passed and that the determination of a good atmosphere is much more complex and bizarre than just whether there are 600 or 6000 in a family enclosure. The role of expectations, social psychology, team performance, time of day, frustration, anger etc all still play a fundamental role. I fully accept that football has fundamentally changed and irreversibly so - I agree with SBTP that families per se is good for the game but over-focusing on them is a mistake in my view. This isn't all just about atmosphere - its about footballs place in the community as an outlet for tribalism and yes some aggression. I think claiming we're beyond the need for that outlet is naive. The whole section must only be about 10% of the overall capacity. Not sure though that it makes great sense to put the 18-21 year olds next to the away fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4386 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I think the change you fear has already passed and that the determination of a good atmosphere is much more complex and bizarre than just whether there are 600 or 6000 in a family enclosure. The role of expectations, social psychology, team performance, time of day, frustration, anger etc all still play a fundamental role. I fully accept that football has fundamentally changed and irreversibly so - I agree with SBTP that families per se is good for the game but over-focusing on them is a mistake in my view. This isn't all just about atmosphere - its about footballs place in the community as an outlet for tribalism and yes some aggression. I think claiming we're beyond the need for that outlet is naive. ? A fundamental change in the nature of football support has already occurred, not sure where a claim for being beyond a need for an outlet for tribalism or aggression was made. Assumed it was a general point re: society's views on such matters rather than disagreeing with a point you were making. Yes - the idea that the nastiness of the past is gone and that's a completely positive notion is what I'm arguing against. The marketing men try and sell football as a pleasant experience for families (which it is) but at the same time promote what they call good atmospheres without acknowledging that unless the circumstances are exceptional like last week, there is in my view a correlation between better atmospheres with tribalism and alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4386 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I think the change you fear has already passed and that the determination of a good atmosphere is much more complex and bizarre than just whether there are 600 or 6000 in a family enclosure. The role of expectations, social psychology, team performance, time of day, frustration, anger etc all still play a fundamental role. I fully accept that football has fundamentally changed and irreversibly so - I agree with SBTP that families per se is good for the game but over-focusing on them is a mistake in my view. This isn't all just about atmosphere - its about footballs place in the community as an outlet for tribalism and yes some aggression. I think claiming we're beyond the need for that outlet is naive. The whole section must only be about 10% of the overall capacity. Not sure though that it makes great sense to put the 18-21 year olds next to the away fans The whole of Milburn/Leazes L7 is 10%? Surely that's the expansion from 36 to 52 which is 16k - even allowing for 3k for away fans that 25% Another point is that as someone who much prefers to watch football side on and away from the pitch I'm now limited to a choice of one stand at "normal" prices and corporate shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 If the number of families is at an all time high and demand outstrips capacity and saturday was the best atmosphere since 'Tino', how does the correlation between familiies and shit atmosphere get passed off without any discussion? Not saying its wrong, just asking the question. Chezney, if you are going to play the contrarian you can surely do better than this. Even Christmas Tree wouldn't have the temerity to pass this off Oh come on, was just asking a question. How can it be contrarian if i also state i am not saying the position is wrong? The atmosphere on Saturday would never have reached it's crescendo had it not been for the lads in the corner that kept singing through the whole game, even while we were four nowt down. The rest of the corner to my left towards the away fans are pro-active...the families to my righht are reactive. Well as i wasnt there i cant really argue but i have been there when the lads in the corner never shut up all game and the atmosphere was shite. Exactly. You'll not even get one section singing at those shit games now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 I think the change you fear has already passed and that the determination of a good atmosphere is much more complex and bizarre than just whether there are 600 or 6000 in a family enclosure. The role of expectations, social psychology, team performance, time of day, frustration, anger etc all still play a fundamental role. I fully accept that football has fundamentally changed and irreversibly so - I agree with SBTP that families per se is good for the game but over-focusing on them is a mistake in my view. This isn't all just about atmosphere - its about footballs place in the community as an outlet for tribalism and yes some aggression. I think claiming we're beyond the need for that outlet is naive. I think thats a very valid point but one which no politician or public figure related to football would want to come out and say, people always link tribalism with the hooligan aspect rather than it simply being pride in your club, allegiance to the badge etc. Getting rid of the singing section in itself is a disgrace but replacing it with Students and the like when its right next door to the most vocal and hostile element of the ground is a mistake of the highest order. Everyone in any football ground bases the atmosphere on what they themselves hear. From my seat in NE Corner (sarnies, flask and blanket optional) I believe that the Singing corner is doing a very good job, I may disagree with half the stuff thats sung but thats a different matter. I couldnt understand how Philip Craig (toontastic on twitter) who sits in the Leazes could have a different view. Someone in Gallowgate will probably not have such a view because from there they themselves cant be heard over the sound of the Gallowgate and corners. What is probably missed though is the fact that at least some of the time, the chants and songs from everywhere else in the ground are as a result of the same thing starting in L7. They are the catalyst, theyre the ones that generally get it going and they're the ones that keep it going regardless of the score. The same thing but tenfold is appropriate to the away fans, they hear those near them. If theres nothing going on but a few kids singing Toon Toon and some students winging about the fact choice of real ales in the concourse then we'll be a laughing stock. I said this on twitter and I think it needs to be organised and done, L7 should spend the next home game sat in their seats watching the game, no songs, no chants, no banter with the away fans. Give the rest of the ground a taste of just what it will be like when this happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44900 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Don't put the family section next to alex. That's all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marshall-Barnes Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Bad idea having that family section next to the away fans for when Boro next come up too, bet they never thought of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 13873 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Bad idea having that family section next to the away fans for when Boro next come up too, bet they never thought of that. Bastard, I was going to make a joke about the Riverside having 30,000 family enclosure seats at the request of the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Don't put the family section next to alex. That's all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc 0 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 We need to pull together and not let that bastard take away what we have. Every home game 3,000 fans standing & singing together most of the game regardless of the score. We can still have that if we stick together in another location. We can still have the standing if we stick together and have 3,000 fans standing. And being lower down might well allow the noise to spread more through-out the stadium. And imagine that bastards face next season when he thinks he's dispersed us, looks across to leazes level 4 for example, and see's 3,000 fans standing together even closer to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44900 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 They aren't gonna let you relocate en masse to another area. I would imagine the box office are under orders on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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