ClubSpinDoctor 0 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Winner of North East Top Dogs should get a place too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 The F.A should do the same with the F.A Cup. Do the FA have a set number of CL spots to dole out as they please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubSpinDoctor 0 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I was under the impression that they were assigned to the Premier League rather than the F.A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Do the FA have a set number of CL spots to dole out as they please? Yep - the winners of the F.A Cup get Europa League as it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Yep - the winners of the F.A Cup get Europa League as it stands. Who'd get that Europa League spot? League position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubSpinDoctor 0 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Yep - the winners of the F.A Cup get Europa League as it stands. But wasn't that part of the merger with the Cup Winner's Cup? I'm not sure UEFA would let cup winners into the CL, having Portsmouth or Wigan in it ahead of bigger more established clubs would be seen as devaluing the competition. They only want the Elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 The F.A govern football in England - via UEFA & FIFA. They can do what they want with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubSpinDoctor 0 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 The F.A govern football in England - via UEFA & FIFA. They can do what they want with it. The CL is UEFA's competition, they can set parameters as to how qualification has to be achieved surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubSpinDoctor 0 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 The number of teams that each association enters into the UEFA Champions League is based upon the UEFA coefficients of the member associations. These coefficients are generated by the results of clubs representing each association during the previous five Champions League and UEFA Europa League/UEFA Cup seasons. The higher an association's coefficient, the more teams represent the association in the Champions League, and the fewer qualification rounds the association's teams must compete in. Five of the remaining ten qualifying places are granted to the winners of a four round qualifying tournament between the remaining 39 or 38 national champions, within which those champions from associations with higher coefficients receive byes to later rounds. The other five are granted to the winners of a two round qualifying tournament between the 15 clubs from the associations ranked 1 through 15, which have qualified based upon finishing second, third, or fourth in their respective national league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 But wasn't that part of the merger with the Cup Winner's Cup? I'm not sure UEFA would let cup winners into the CL, having Portsmouth or Wigan in it ahead of bigger more established clubs would be seen as devaluing the competition. They only want the Elite. But Portsmouth or Wigan would be less likely to get the spot as the majority of the Premier League clubs would suddenly take the competition very, very seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 CSD - Well that's obvious - but it's also in UEFAs interest to boost domestic cup competitions. Which is why Platini proposed that Cup winners were given Champions League places in 2007. If the F.A were to request that F.A Cup winners got CL places - UEFA wouldn't disagree & the F.A regulate the Premier League... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30611 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) I don't think it's that simple though. The FA only regulate the PL because the PL allows them to do so. The six or seven clubs in with a chance of qualifying for the CL through the four places simply wouldn't let the FA take away that last spot. Edit: Though if the majority of PL clubs backed it then it may have a chance. Edited August 29, 2014 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubSpinDoctor 0 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Well if it was proposed by him in 2007 then there's reasons nobody warmed to it, probably down to stuff that I said, worse teams entering etc. Fish says Portsmouth and Wigan would be less likely because the bigger teams would be taking it seriously. But the 3 biggest teams would already be qualified and most teams below that do take it seriously. The nature of a knockout competition means that there'll always be surprise teams going all the way. And what happens when a top 3 team wins the F.A cup? Runners up get the CL place? Imagine the dross that that would have qualified over the years! Edited August 29, 2014 by ClubSpinDoctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 If it came to that there's 20 members in the premier league - so if you had 7 clubs fighting against it you'd have 13 arguing for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubSpinDoctor 0 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 If it came to that there's 20 members in the premier league - so if you had 7 clubs fighting against it you'd have 13 arguing for it. The top clubs are the big money generators for the Premier League, they hold the power. I doubt it would be as democratic as a majority vote gets their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Well you're wrong. It's how the league works - 20 'shareholders'. Burnley have as much influence as Man City - it's a vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubSpinDoctor 0 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Well you're wrong. It's how the league works - 20 'shareholders'. Burnley have as much influence as Man City - it's a vote. They should all vote for 'no clubs to be relegated then'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubSpinDoctor 0 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) "All TV money to be distributed evenly" would benefit the majority in a vote too. Why isn't this happening? Why aren't the majority voting for things to bridge the gap between the top clubs. Edited August 29, 2014 by ClubSpinDoctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 It was mooted - by Ellis Short but it would need the support of a two thirds majority & as the Football League is self regulating they could probably get away with it. Although I don't think it's in everybody's interest it would cause all kinds of bother. The Premier League is the organising body of the Barclays Premier League with responsibility for the competition, its Rule Book and the centralised broadcast and other commercial rights. However, we do not operate in isolation, instead we work proactively and constructively with our Member Clubs and the other football authorities to improve the quality of football both in England and across the world. Here is who we work with: The Member Clubs of the Premier League The Premier League is a private company wholly owned by its 20 Member Clubs who make up the League at any one time. Each individual club is independent: working within the rules of football, as defined by the Premier League, The FA, Uefa and Fifa as well being subject to English and European law. Each of the 20 clubs is a Shareholder in the Premier League. Consultation is at the heart of the Premier League and Shareholder meetings are the ultimate decision-making forum for Premier League policy and are held at regular intervals during the course of the season. The AGM takes place at the close of each season, at which time the relegated clubs transfer their shares to the clubs promoted into the Premier League from the Football League Championship. Clubs have the opportunity to propose new rules or amendments at the Shareholder meeting. Each Member Club is entitled to one vote and all rule changes and major commercial contracts require the support of a two thirds vote, or 14 clubs, to be agreed. The Premier League Rule Book serves as a contract between the League, the Member Clubs and one another, defining the structure and running of the competition. Any serious breach of the Rule Book results in an independent three-person tribunal sitting to hear the case, ascertain guilt and set the punishment, which can range from fines to points deductions and, in extreme cases, expulsion from the competition (this has never happened in the history of the Premier League). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 "All TV money to be distributed evenly" would benefit the majority in a vote too. Why isn't this happening? Why aren't the majority voting for things to bridge the gap between the top clubs. I'll let you read the above and work that out for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Well if it was proposed by him in 2007 then there's reasons nobody warmed to it, probably down to stuff that I said, worse teams entering etc. Fish says Portsmouth and Wigan would be less likely because the bigger teams would be taking it seriously. But the 3 biggest teams would already be qualified and most teams below that do take it seriously. The nature of a knockout competition means that there'll always be surprise teams going all the way. And what happens when a top 3 team wins the F.A cup? Runners up get the CL place? Imagine the dross that that would have qualified over the years! Sorry, but most teams below the top 3 don't take it seriously, that's the point. To be honest, most teams including the top 3 don't take it seriously. Only when it's their only chance of silverware will they take it seriously. A CL spot would have all the teams in the Premier League taking it seriously which would obviously dramatically reduce the likelihood of a surprise package. Also, even if a Wigan or whomever got into the CL it'd be at the qualification stages, so they'd be no more of a drop in quality than Celtic and their ilk are at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubSpinDoctor 0 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Sorry, but most teams below the top 3 don't take it seriously, that's the point. To be honest, most teams including the top 3 don't take it seriously. Only when it's their only chance of silverware will they take it seriously. A CL spot would have all the teams in the Premier League taking it seriously which would obviously dramatically reduce the likelihood of a surprise package. Also, even if a Wigan or whomever got into the CL it'd be at the qualification stages, so they'd be no more of a drop in quality than Celtic and their ilk are at the moment. They wouldn't be there instead of a Celtic-quality club though would they. They'd be a drop in quality from an Arsenal or a Chelsea, and for the competition to continue to be the huge money spinner that it is UEFA want more 'elite' clubs in and less dross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 They wouldn't be there instead of a Celtic-quality club though would they. They'd be a drop in quality from an Arsenal or a Chelsea, and for the competition to continue to be the huge money spinner that it is UEFA want more 'elite' clubs in and less dross. You're still assuming that it'd be a Portsmouth, a Fulham or an Aston Villa winning the pot, but in all likelihood it'd still be an Arsenal or a Chelsea. At least the mid-table clubs would take the thing seriously. As it is the £4m doesn't really offset the cost it would incur to take the Europa League spot seriously. So frankly, why bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubSpinDoctor 0 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 You're still assuming that it'd be a Portsmouth, a Fulham or an Aston Villa winning the pot, but in all likelihood it'd still be an Arsenal or a Chelsea. At least the mid-table clubs would take the thing seriously. As it is the £4m doesn't really offset the cost it would incur to take the Europa League spot seriously. So frankly, why bother? A 38 game season is still much more effectively going to separate the top teams from the dross over a knockout cup competition. I agree with you, I'd like to see it too. I'm looking at it from UEFA's perspective and suggesting why they wouldn't let it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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