Kid Dynamite 7008 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I think that, while it's unpleasant, it's small fry in the grand scheme of things. I'd be delighted to see Terry get hauled over the coals for it but not because I think it's all that bad. I abhor racism btw but calling someone a 'black cunt' or whatever is being made out to be terrible by the media. I wonder how many black reporters there are at the likes of the Daily Mail (who tend to lead the charge for the moral highground). classic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7008 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The thought process of Terry was probably an observational one. He's jumping about on the field marking someone shit who plays for QPR, and as he looks over, Anton ferdinand is making shagging gestures saying something like, "yeh bruv you cocked wayne bridges missus init but you only lasted like 2 seconds bruv cos you got a tiny todger ahaha what you like some kind of joke bruv," and terry is absolutely fuming, because this is his weak point, the thing that has lost him the England captaincy and millions in potential sponsorship/image rights etc, and he's looking at him thinking, "ere, what is the most offensif fing i cud say to im right now?" and he's searching for a term to go in front of 'cunt'. Shit-cunt, ugly-cunt, poor-cunt, black-cunt--that'll do, and out it comes. Ok. So which part of that means he shouldn't be prosecuted? Is ignorance or a low IQ an excuse for being racist? Where is the line drawn? If a fan throws a banana on the pitch do we just turn a blind eye because no-one died and in the grand scheme of things it doesn't mean much. If we head down that road we will be back to the lovely 70s/80s all over again when it was quite acceptable to call someone a nigger and have whole sections of crowds throwing bananas and making monkey noises? When the England captain calls a fellow Englishman a black cunt it is a big deal and it does deserve to go to court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) No one gives a fuck what you think, you thickpinball-playingteetotalnorwegianpornstar-shaggingleathercladpoliticallycorrectunbelievableilliteratepriggishbastard. Edited July 9, 2012 by Kevin S. Assilleekunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4709 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Only read the last few posts of this thread but I find myself in agreement with KSA. Lots of people stick the first thing that comes to mind in front of cunt in the heat of an argument. I appreciate it's not acceptable but I've always held the view that your average kid is no more upset, at being called a black cunt as fat person being called a fat cunt. I also feel quite bemused at the national media attention some 18 year old thicket gets for abusing England players on twitter. 30 years ago we had Alf Garnet and other prime time shows and comedians taking the piss out of blacks. Sure time moves on but there is plenty of racism from all skin types everyday. It gets too much attention IMO. Time will sort it. I wonder what the twenty somethings do or laugh at today that will be illegal in 30 years time? Edited July 10, 2012 by Christmas Tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7008 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 No one gives a fuck what you think, you thickpinball-playingteetotalnorwegianpornstar-shaggingleathercladpoliticallycorrectunbelievableilliteratepriggishbastard. Put me on ignore then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4375 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I also find it strange that Terry has been charged with a public order offence where the "victim" didn't hear the comment, no other person in the vicinity did and the crowd couldn't react. That would leave the watching TV audience as the only "public" who could react and if we start charging people for what they say on TV in case someone watching reacts where will that end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17124 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 It does seem strange thats true. Either the CPS have a hard on for the publicity this will generate or theyre pretty sure whatever evidence they have will stand up in court...I'm assuming thats where the lip reader comes in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7008 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I also find it strange that Terry has been charged with a public order offence where the "victim" didn't hear the comment, no other person in the vicinity did and the crowd couldn't react. That would leave the watching TV audience as the only "public" who could react and if we start charging people for what they say on TV in case someone watching reacts where will that end? A member of the public made a police complaint. There is evidence available so they have to investigate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flap 0 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 classic Not sure what you mean there. I can only assume you're trying to be clever but if you read the next sentence you can see exactly what I was getting at, i.e. making a point about the hypocrisy of the media. So you're either so stupid you couldn't even comprehend something that simple or you're so stupid you think you've made a valid argument by highlighting the word 'but'. 'Classic' response from you either way I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke 2 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I think BOTH KSA and J69 are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flap 0 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 30 years ago we had Alf Garnet taking the piss out of blacks. He was taking the piss out of the bigots man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney 0 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Court watching more footage of QPR v CFC game in Oct 2011. Martin Tyler & Ray Wilkins' commentary subtitled. 'Well played, young fellow' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4375 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) A member of the public made a police complaint. There is evidence available so they have to investigate it Well the first question should be were you there and did you hear it? As I said if that applies to all TV then it would be a farce. "Public order" as I understand it involves words or behaviour that causes a public reaction - you can't walk into a bar in Glasgow say and shout "you're all Jock twats" as that would cause a reaction - fair enough.. I then don't see how someone calling Anton Ferdinand anything should provoke a reaction in anyone else. Are we saying if I call you a twat that someone else can complain as they are offended? Even if it was a black person who complained, I'd argue the point that calling someone a black cunt is racist but only to that person - I don't think you can argue he was calling all black people cunts in that context. Edited July 10, 2012 by NJS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney 0 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Keeps on giving : Terry told FA: "he didn't smell or anything but i pretended" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney 0 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Terry: 'We know about all the camera angles [in modern football]. If I had something to hide I could whisper it into someone's ear' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10776 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Well the first question should be were you there and did you hear it? As I said if that applies to all TV then it would be a farce. "Public order" as I understand it involves words or behaviour that causes a public reaction - you can't walk into a bar in Glasgow say and shout "you're all Jock twats" as that would cause a reaction - fair enough.. I then don't see how someone calling Anton Ferdinand anything should provoke a reaction in anyone else. Are we saying if I call you a twat that someone else can complain as they are offended? Even if it was a black person who complained, I'd argue the point that calling someone a black cunt is racist but only to that person - I don't think you can argue he was calling all black people cunts in that context. Thing is it can be argued that if "Chelsea and England's" John Terry uses racist terms it suggests to his fans and followers that this behaviour is acceptable. Also, regards Ferdinand not being aware of it til later; just because you don't see the crime doesn't mean the crime shouldn't be punished. For what it's worth I'm of the opinion that racism is subjective; guy in bovva boots, dungarees with swastika tattoos shouts "Black cunt" I'm going to expect him to be racially abusing someone. John Terry does it, I expect that he's just a thick thug who hasn't the wit to come up with something else. I think if he did say it as an insult it's because the first identifier his neanderthal mind stumbled across was the colour of Ferdinand's skin. If he was having a pop at Crouch he would have said Tall Cunt. End of the day he should be banned for the same length of time as Suarez, fined by the CPS and do some community service, if for no other reason than being a pikey scumbag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7008 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Thing is it can be argued that if "Chelsea and England's" John Terry uses racist terms it was suggests to his fans and followers that this behaviour is acceptable. Also, regards Ferdinand not being aware of it til later; just because you don't see the crime doesn't mean the crime shouldn't be punished. For what it's worth I'm of the opinion that racism is subjective; guy in bovva boots, dungarees with swastika tattoos shouts "Black cunt" I'm going to expect him to be racially abusing someone. John Terry does it, I expect that he's just a thick thug who hasn't the wit to come up with something else. I think if he did say it as an insult it's because the first identifier his neanderthal mind stumbled across was the colour of Ferdinand's skin. If he was having a pop at Crouch he would have said Tall Cunt. End of the day he should be banned for the same length of time as Suarez, fined by the CPS and do some community service, if for no other reason than being a pikey scumbag. It all subjective though unfortunately. We will never know exactly what went through Terrys head when he said it so we have no choice to treat the 2 types of characters to the same punishment. Whether it's an EDL member who gets arrested for saying it or a business man who loses his rag in the street. The law doesn't distinguish between the 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17124 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 It all subjective though unfortunately. We will never know exactly what went through Terrys head when he said it so we have no choice to treat the 2 types of characters to the same punishment. Whether it's an EDL member who gets arrested for saying it or a business man who loses his rag in the street. The law doesn't distinguish between the 2 But thats where "the law is an ass" As has been said, can call someone a racially derogative name and not be a foaming-mouth, card carrying nazi. I bet theres enough black players he's played with and been mates with that would back him up in his claim that he's not a racist. The actual offence he's been charged with either is or isn't a criminal offence, depending on your point of view. Thing is it is now law. And its a very poor one iyam, New Labour PC brigade shite. It doesn't really help end anything. It just aids those with an agenda in continuing to poke the finger at people and putting them in a box marked "racist" when the truth is a lot more complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4709 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 But thats where "the law is an ass" As has been said, can call someone a racially derogative name and not be a foaming-mouth, card carrying nazi. I bet theres enough black players he's played with and been mates with that would back him up in his claim that he's not a racist. The actual offence he's been charged with either is or isn't a criminal offence, depending on your point of view. Thing is it is now law. And its a very poor one iyam, New Labour PC brigade shite. It doesn't really help end anything. It just aids those with an agenda in continuing to poke the finger at people and putting them in a box marked "racist" when the truth is a lot more complex. Spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 19976 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Just read on Twitter about Coleman wanting Shawcross to play for Wales, but will ask Ramsay first. Wait on Chris lad, whos the gaffer? Fuck that little jumped up prick, he aint the gaffer. you are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7008 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 But thats where "the law is an ass" As has been said, can call someone a racially derogative name and not be a foaming-mouth, card carrying nazi. I bet theres enough black players he's played with and been mates with that would back him up in his claim that he's not a racist. The actual offence he's been charged with either is or isn't a criminal offence, depending on your point of view. Thing is it is now law. And its a very poor one iyam, New Labour PC brigade shite. It doesn't really help end anything. It just aids those with an agenda in continuing to poke the finger at people and putting them in a box marked "racist" when the truth is a lot more complex. That's a bit like saying I'm not a shoplifter and never have been. But I just stole this kettle in a moment of weakness. But let me off cos I'm honestly not a shoplifter and won't do it again. The law can't be subjective, it's black and white for a reason. Solicitors try to exploit grey areas but what's wrong for one man is wrong for another, regardless of his history or background Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4709 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 That's a bit like saying I'm not a shoplifter and never have been. But I just stole this kettle in a moment of weakness. But let me off cos I'm honestly not a shoplifter and won't do it again. The law can't be subjective, it's black and white for a reason. Solicitors try to exploit grey areas but what's wrong for one man is wrong for another, regardless of his history or background No its not. Just look at the many varying murder trials and the totally different outcomes from life to walking free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17124 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 That's a bit like saying I'm not a shoplifter and never have been. But I just stole this kettle in a moment of weakness. But let me off cos I'm honestly not a shoplifter and won't do it again. The law can't be subjective, it's black and white for a reason. Solicitors try to exploit grey areas but what's wrong for one man is wrong for another, regardless of his history or background Ok, so what is proved if John Terry is convicted of the charge he's up for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7008 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Ok, so what is proved if John Terry is convicted of the charge he's up for? That he called Ferdinand a black cunt. That's it. It's not a case to establish if he's racist. Just that he used racist language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30368 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 He's admitted using the language, the crux of the argument is whether he used the racist language in an abusive manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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