Andy Carroll - "I was told to leave"

[Guest alex]

Its doubtful whether we would have got £35m for Carroll if we actually planned to sell him. As soon as you search the markets, the agent inform each other and then offers for Carroll would be lower knowing you are prepared to sell. It only the lack of 'preparedness' from a willingness and planning perspective that drives the price so high. Bit of catch 22 in a way as there is no way of planning for his departure without signalling a weakness in negotiation to the market.

 

I thought it was accepted that he had been touted round as available. I know SpivHarry said it and I'm sure I've seen it elsewhere

Aye, I think the Torres deal and the Liverpool offer made it that high but I think he was available anyway. As likely a scenario imo, would've seen Torres not moving / handing in his request and Spurs offering £20m and his going for £25m / £20m + player(s). All supposition of course but I don't buy into the notion that he was only available once the £35m bid was made. They held out for that because they knew Liverpool wanted him and they knew Liverpool had just received £50m.

[ChezGiven 0]

Its doubtful whether we would have got £35m for Carroll if we actually planned to sell him. As soon as you search the markets, the agent inform each other and then offers for Carroll would be lower knowing you are prepared to sell. It only the lack of 'preparedness' from a willingness and planning perspective that drives the price so high. Bit of catch 22 in a way as there is no way of planning for his departure without signalling a weakness in negotiation to the market.

 

I thought it was accepted that he had been touted round as available. I know SpivHarry said it and I'm sure I've seen it elsewhere

 

You dont get £35m for a player being touted round for sale. As i have said before, i only say things as i see them but the likelihood of that being true is 0% in my opinion.

[spongebob toonpants 4132]

Its doubtful whether we would have got £35m for Carroll if we actually planned to sell him. As soon as you search the markets, the agent inform each other and then offers for Carroll would be lower knowing you are prepared to sell. It only the lack of 'preparedness' from a willingness and planning perspective that drives the price so high. Bit of catch 22 in a way as there is no way of planning for his departure without signalling a weakness in negotiation to the market.

 

I thought it was accepted that he had been touted round as available. I know SpivHarry said it and I'm sure I've seen it elsewhere

 

You dont get £35m for a player being touted round for sale. As i have said before, i only say things as i see them but the likelihood of that being true is 0% in my opinion.

 

You think there is a 0% chance it was known that Carroll was available at the right price? I think there is a 100% chance that you have underestimated the possibilty

[Christmas Tree 4825]

As a young lad who has come through the club, being looked after by the club through his mis adventures, and only completed half a season in the premiership on a much improved contract length and salary, he should have had the good decency to continue his recovery and then enter into re-negogiations in the summer as preferred by the club.

 

He shouldnt have been giving it all Billy Big Balls, especially bearing in mind his undying love for the club and talk of being the next Shearer.

 

He has blown a golden opportunity imo.

I think you have to look at both sides of the story and, even giving the club the benefit of the doubt (not sure why you could reasonably expect honesty from them though given their track record), you'd have to say the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the two tales. With that in mind the club were more than happy to take the money on offer and they'd have known that they'd have to increase Carroll's current salary if they expected him to stay. I suspect they weren't prepared to take the chance on his worth never being as high again and let the player know they wanted to sell him.

 

tbh honest I wasnt saying that from a factual belief, more from a position that I think he should have adopted.

 

The people running the club have no loyalty of affection to the club. He did.

 

And I do genuinely think when the emotions have faded away he will see that he has blown a great opportunity to be a Newcastle great.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Christmas Tree

[Guest alex]

As a young lad who has come through the club, being looked after by the club through his mis adventures, and only completed half a season in the premiership on a much improved contract length and salary, he should have had the good decency to continue his recovery and then enter into re-negogiations in the summer as preferred by the club.

 

He shouldnt have been giving it all Billy Big Balls, especially bearing in mind his undying love for the club and talk of being the next Shearer.

 

He has blown a golden opportunity imo.

I think you have to look at both sides of the story and, even giving the club the benefit of the doubt (not sure why you could reasonably expect honesty from them though given their track record), you'd have to say the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the two tales. With that in mind the club were more than happy to take the money on offer and they'd have known that they'd have to increase Carroll's current salary if they expected him to stay. I suspect they weren't prepared to take the chance on his worth never being as high again and let the player know they wanted to sell him.

 

tbh honest I wasnt saying that from a factual belief, more from a position that I think he should have adopted.

 

The people running the club have no loyalty of affection to the club. He did.

Fair enough.

[ewerk 31199]

Am I A £35m Striker?

 

I scored 24 goals helping my side win promotion back to the Premier League aged just 22.

 

Then in my first season in the top flight I had bagged an impressive 15 goals by the end of January. Including a goal against the reigning champions, away at Arsenal and in a home win over Liverpool. My form earned me an England call-up and my debut in an international friendly.

 

Am a I £35m striker?

 

Guess who.

[Guest alex]

Andy Johnson? Pure guess like.

[GafferTape 0]

Ricketts?

[Sonatine 11542]

Ricketts?

 

Sounds likely.

 

Whatever happened to him anyway?

[ewerk 31199]

Ricketts?

 

Yup.

[peasepud 59]

Its doubtful whether we would have got £35m for Carroll if we actually planned to sell him. As soon as you search the markets, the agent inform each other and then offers for Carroll would be lower knowing you are prepared to sell. It only the lack of 'preparedness' from a willingness and planning perspective that drives the price so high. Bit of catch 22 in a way as there is no way of planning for his departure without signalling a weakness in negotiation to the market.

 

I thought it was accepted that he had been touted round as available. I know SpivHarry said it and I'm sure I've seen it elsewhere

 

You dont get £35m for a player being touted round for sale. As i have said before, i only say things as i see them but the likelihood of that being true is 0% in my opinion.

My understanding of this back in December was that the club had made it clear to other clubs they would only listen to offers over £20m, any less and they werent interested so dont bother knocking. This was the basis of my posts previous and why I said it was a done deal re the discussions at the Spuds game.

 

Thats not touting for sale its merely making your position clear, people are wasting their time trying to bid less but talk our kind of numbers and you may get a deal.

[ChezGiven 0]

Its doubtful whether we would have got £35m for Carroll if we actually planned to sell him. As soon as you search the markets, the agent inform each other and then offers for Carroll would be lower knowing you are prepared to sell. It only the lack of 'preparedness' from a willingness and planning perspective that drives the price so high. Bit of catch 22 in a way as there is no way of planning for his departure without signalling a weakness in negotiation to the market.

 

I thought it was accepted that he had been touted round as available. I know SpivHarry said it and I'm sure I've seen it elsewhere

 

You dont get £35m for a player being touted round for sale. As i have said before, i only say things as i see them but the likelihood of that being true is 0% in my opinion.

 

You think there is a 0% chance it was known that Carroll was available at the right price? I think there is a 100% chance that you have underestimated the possibilty

 

Sorry i was called away for something whilst posting. There is a 0% chance that Ashley let it be known that Carroll was for sale, the buying clubs arent 'signalled' into the market by information from the seller. This is always a hostile business exchange and the seller gains nothing from it being anything else. If you let it known you want to sell something, the price falls, if you let it known you dont want to sell something, the price rises. Even if the club wanted to sell Carroll this would be the last piece of information it would either share or 'signal' to the market.

 

All players have a price but the idea that a player has a price and the idea of a player being touted round for sale are very very different things. Each bid for Carroll over the window from Spurs or Liverpool were uninvited bids, hostile bids if you like. During that process, the buying club will gain an insight on willingness to sell and at which price. Above a certain price, everything is for sale.

[ChezGiven 0]

Its doubtful whether we would have got £35m for Carroll if we actually planned to sell him. As soon as you search the markets, the agent inform each other and then offers for Carroll would be lower knowing you are prepared to sell. It only the lack of 'preparedness' from a willingness and planning perspective that drives the price so high. Bit of catch 22 in a way as there is no way of planning for his departure without signalling a weakness in negotiation to the market.

 

I thought it was accepted that he had been touted round as available. I know SpivHarry said it and I'm sure I've seen it elsewhere

 

You dont get £35m for a player being touted round for sale. As i have said before, i only say things as i see them but the likelihood of that being true is 0% in my opinion.

My understanding of this back in December was that the club had made it clear to other clubs they would only listen to offers over £20m, any less and they werent interested so dont bother knocking. This was the basis of my posts previous and why I said it was a done deal re the discussions at the Spuds game.

 

Thats not touting for sale its merely making your position clear, people are wasting their time trying to bid less but talk our kind of numbers and you may get a deal.

 

And that 'position' being clarified would have been a 'response' to hostile bids for the player. Not the other way round, otherwise no offer would ever get to £20m, they'd all be under that.

[peasepud 59]

Its doubtful whether we would have got £35m for Carroll if we actually planned to sell him. As soon as you search the markets, the agent inform each other and then offers for Carroll would be lower knowing you are prepared to sell. It only the lack of 'preparedness' from a willingness and planning perspective that drives the price so high. Bit of catch 22 in a way as there is no way of planning for his departure without signalling a weakness in negotiation to the market.

 

I thought it was accepted that he had been touted round as available. I know SpivHarry said it and I'm sure I've seen it elsewhere

 

You dont get £35m for a player being touted round for sale. As i have said before, i only say things as i see them but the likelihood of that being true is 0% in my opinion.

My understanding of this back in December was that the club had made it clear to other clubs they would only listen to offers over £20m, any less and they werent interested so dont bother knocking. This was the basis of my posts previous and why I said it was a done deal re the discussions at the Spuds game.

 

Thats not touting for sale its merely making your position clear, people are wasting their time trying to bid less but talk our kind of numbers and you may get a deal.

 

And that 'position' being clarified would have been a 'response' to hostile bids for the player. Not the other way round, otherwise no offer would ever get to £20m, they'd all be under that.

I disagree, the world doesnt operate on this strict cycle that you're making out. Chairmen talk, owners know each other etc etc there will be conversations over a brandy, chats on the phone about unrelated issues. If I remember correctly thats how Cole ended up at Man U, Ferguson was talking to KK about another player and cheekily said something along the lines of "how much for Andy" where he was told a price that KK felt was too good to turn down. Next thing you know hes gone.

 

Even if it is as a result of a "hostile bid" that doesnt mean the price drops, club A bids £10m and is told you wont listen to offers of under £20m (which I believe happened earlier last month with Spurs didnt it?) that in itself alerts other clubs but you're not touting him.

 

I love my Vectra its only worth a grand but its the car Ive had for years and Im attached to it. You offer me £500 and I'll tell you to shove it, if you bug me to buy and ask what would it take to sell then I'll say £1300. If you then offer me £1500 I'll snap your hand off. Thats not the same as placing an ad in the Autotrader for £1k ono.

[Asprilla 96]

Its doubtful whether we would have got £35m for Carroll if we actually planned to sell him. As soon as you search the markets, the agent inform each other and then offers for Carroll would be lower knowing you are prepared to sell. It only the lack of 'preparedness' from a willingness and planning perspective that drives the price so high. Bit of catch 22 in a way as there is no way of planning for his departure without signalling a weakness in negotiation to the market.

 

I thought it was accepted that he had been touted round as available. I know SpivHarry said it and I'm sure I've seen it elsewhere

 

You dont get £35m for a player being touted round for sale. As i have said before, i only say things as i see them but the likelihood of that being true is 0% in my opinion.

My understanding of this back in December was that the club had made it clear to other clubs they would only listen to offers over £20m, any less and they werent interested so dont bother knocking. This was the basis of my posts previous and why I said it was a done deal re the discussions at the Spuds game.

 

Thats not touting for sale its merely making your position clear, people are wasting their time trying to bid less but talk our kind of numbers and you may get a deal.

 

And that 'position' being clarified would have been a 'response' to hostile bids for the player. Not the other way round, otherwise no offer would ever get to £20m, they'd all be under that.

I disagree, the world doesnt operate on this strict cycle that you're making out. Chairmen talk, owners know each other etc etc there will be conversations over a brandy, chats on the phone about unrelated issues. If I remember correctly thats how Cole ended up at Man U, Ferguson was talking to KK about another player and cheekily said something along the lines of "how much for Andy" where he was told a price that KK felt was too good to turn down. Next thing you know hes gone.

 

Even if it is as a result of a "hostile bid" that doesnt mean the price drops, club A bids £10m and is told you wont listen to offers of under £20m (which I believe happened earlier last month with Spurs didnt it?) that in itself alerts other clubs but you're not touting him.

 

I love my Vectra its only worth a grand but its the car Ive had for years and Im attached to it. You offer me £500 and I'll tell you to shove it, if you bug me to buy and ask what would it take to sell then I'll say £1300. If you then offer me £1500 I'll snap your hand off. Thats not the same as placing an ad in the Autotrader for £1k ono.

 

Will you take £800?

[ChezGiven 0]

Its doubtful whether we would have got £35m for Carroll if we actually planned to sell him. As soon as you search the markets, the agent inform each other and then offers for Carroll would be lower knowing you are prepared to sell. It only the lack of 'preparedness' from a willingness and planning perspective that drives the price so high. Bit of catch 22 in a way as there is no way of planning for his departure without signalling a weakness in negotiation to the market.

 

I thought it was accepted that he had been touted round as available. I know SpivHarry said it and I'm sure I've seen it elsewhere

 

You dont get £35m for a player being touted round for sale. As i have said before, i only say things as i see them but the likelihood of that being true is 0% in my opinion.

My understanding of this back in December was that the club had made it clear to other clubs they would only listen to offers over £20m, any less and they werent interested so dont bother knocking. This was the basis of my posts previous and why I said it was a done deal re the discussions at the Spuds game.

 

Thats not touting for sale its merely making your position clear, people are wasting their time trying to bid less but talk our kind of numbers and you may get a deal.

 

And that 'position' being clarified would have been a 'response' to hostile bids for the player. Not the other way round, otherwise no offer would ever get to £20m, they'd all be under that.

I disagree, the world doesnt operate on this strict cycle that you're making out. Chairmen talk, owners know each other etc etc there will be conversations over a brandy, chats on the phone about unrelated issues. If I remember correctly thats how Cole ended up at Man U, Ferguson was talking to KK about another player and cheekily said something along the lines of "how much for Andy" where he was told a price that KK felt was too good to turn down. Next thing you know hes gone.

 

Even if it is as a result of a "hostile bid" that doesnt mean the price drops, club A bids £10m and is told you wont listen to offers of under £20m (which I believe happened earlier last month with Spurs didnt it?) that in itself alerts other clubs but you're not touting him.

 

I love my Vectra its only worth a grand but its the car Ive had for years and Im attached to it. You offer me £500 and I'll tell you to shove it, if you bug me to buy and ask what would it take to sell then I'll say £1300. If you then offer me £1500 I'll snap your hand off. Thats not the same as placing an ad in the Autotrader for £1k ono.

Well i agree with all that so i think i must have been coming across badly. When the £25m bid came in, i can imagine when refusing the deal that an indication that the price which is too good to turn down would be indicated. My point was that contact is initiated by the buying club and that any form of 'touting' would decimate the player's value.

Edited February 2, 2011 by ChezGiven

[peasepud 59]

Well i agree with all that so i think i must have been coming across badly. When the £25m bid came in, i can imagine when refusing the deal that an indication that the price which is too good to turn down would be indicated. My point was that contact is initiated by the buying club and that any form of 'touting' would decimate the player's value.

I would agree that if a club physically goes out and says "we want to sell this player" then its a buyers market and if you value him at 5m you'll probably get offers for less than that.

[LeazesMag 0]

Its doubtful whether we would have got £35m for Carroll if we actually planned to sell him. As soon as you search the markets, the agent inform each other and then offers for Carroll would be lower knowing you are prepared to sell. It only the lack of 'preparedness' from a willingness and planning perspective that drives the price so high. Bit of catch 22 in a way as there is no way of planning for his departure without signalling a weakness in negotiation to the market.

 

I thought it was accepted that he had been touted round as available. I know SpivHarry said it and I'm sure I've seen it elsewhere

 

You dont get £35m for a player being touted round for sale. As i have said before, i only say things as i see them but the likelihood of that being true is 0% in my opinion.

My understanding of this back in December was that the club had made it clear to other clubs they would only listen to offers over £20m, any less and they werent interested so dont bother knocking. This was the basis of my posts previous and why I said it was a done deal re the discussions at the Spuds game.

 

Thats not touting for sale its merely making your position clear, people are wasting their time trying to bid less but talk our kind of numbers and you may get a deal.

 

And that 'position' being clarified would have been a 'response' to hostile bids for the player. Not the other way round, otherwise no offer would ever get to £20m, they'd all be under that.

I disagree, the world doesnt operate on this strict cycle that you're making out. Chairmen talk, owners know each other etc etc there will be conversations over a brandy, chats on the phone about unrelated issues. If I remember correctly thats how Cole ended up at Man U, Ferguson was talking to KK about another player and cheekily said something along the lines of "how much for Andy" where he was told a price that KK felt was too good to turn down. Next thing you know hes gone.

 

Even if it is as a result of a "hostile bid" that doesnt mean the price drops, club A bids £10m and is told you wont listen to offers of under £20m (which I believe happened earlier last month with Spurs didnt it?) that in itself alerts other clubs but you're not touting him.

 

I love my Vectra its only worth a grand but its the car Ive had for years and Im attached to it. You offer me £500 and I'll tell you to shove it, if you bug me to buy and ask what would it take to sell then I'll say £1300. If you then offer me £1500 I'll snap your hand off. Thats not the same as placing an ad in the Autotrader for £1k ono.

 

Will you take James Perch ?

[peasepud 59]

Its doubtful whether we would have got £35m for Carroll if we actually planned to sell him. As soon as you search the markets, the agent inform each other and then offers for Carroll would be lower knowing you are prepared to sell. It only the lack of 'preparedness' from a willingness and planning perspective that drives the price so high. Bit of catch 22 in a way as there is no way of planning for his departure without signalling a weakness in negotiation to the market.

 

I thought it was accepted that he had been touted round as available. I know SpivHarry said it and I'm sure I've seen it elsewhere

 

You dont get £35m for a player being touted round for sale. As i have said before, i only say things as i see them but the likelihood of that being true is 0% in my opinion.

My understanding of this back in December was that the club had made it clear to other clubs they would only listen to offers over £20m, any less and they werent interested so dont bother knocking. This was the basis of my posts previous and why I said it was a done deal re the discussions at the Spuds game.

 

Thats not touting for sale its merely making your position clear, people are wasting their time trying to bid less but talk our kind of numbers and you may get a deal.

 

And that 'position' being clarified would have been a 'response' to hostile bids for the player. Not the other way round, otherwise no offer would ever get to £20m, they'd all be under that.

I disagree, the world doesnt operate on this strict cycle that you're making out. Chairmen talk, owners know each other etc etc there will be conversations over a brandy, chats on the phone about unrelated issues. If I remember correctly thats how Cole ended up at Man U, Ferguson was talking to KK about another player and cheekily said something along the lines of "how much for Andy" where he was told a price that KK felt was too good to turn down. Next thing you know hes gone.

 

Even if it is as a result of a "hostile bid" that doesnt mean the price drops, club A bids £10m and is told you wont listen to offers of under £20m (which I believe happened earlier last month with Spurs didnt it?) that in itself alerts other clubs but you're not touting him.

 

I love my Vectra its only worth a grand but its the car Ive had for years and Im attached to it. You offer me £500 and I'll tell you to shove it, if you bug me to buy and ask what would it take to sell then I'll say £1300. If you then offer me £1500 I'll snap your hand off. Thats not the same as placing an ad in the Autotrader for £1k ono.

 

Will you take James Perch ?

I said it was worth a grand

 

 

fuckin tyrekickers

[Tom_NUFC 0]

I wonder if something along the lines of the following happened.

 

AGENT: Andy, Liverpool want you, and they'll pay you loads more than you're getting here.

 

AC: I don't really want to leave, Newcastle's my team.

 

AGENT: Well OK, but how about this. Go to the club, and tell them that you want a new contract.

 

AC: I'll wait until the summer, and then I can go to them and say I've had a good season, I think I should get a new deal.

 

AGENT: No do it now. Liverpool want you now. You don't what the situation will be like in the summer. Go and ask them for a new deal, and if they say no, tell them you want to speak to Liverpool. If they really won't sell you, they'll agree to a new deal.

 

AC: OK

 

Carroll goes to see Pardew/Llambias/Ashley

 

AC: I want a new deal. I've got all this interest, offering better money, so I want you to give me a better deal.

 

NUFC: No. We just gave you a new deal.

 

AC: Right, well if you won't give me a new deal, I want to speak to Liverpool.

 

NUFC: OK.

[LeazesMag 0]

I wonder if something along the lines of the following happened.

 

AGENT: Andy, Liverpool want you, and they'll pay you loads more than you're getting here.

 

AC: I don't really want to leave, Newcastle's my team.

 

AGENT: Well OK, but how about this. Go to the club, and tell them that you want a new contract.

 

AC: I'll wait until the summer, and then I can go to them and say I've had a good season, I think I should get a new deal.

 

AGENT: No do it now. Liverpool want you now. You don't what the situation will be like in the summer. Go and ask them for a new deal, and if they say no, tell them you want to speak to Liverpool. If they really won't sell you, they'll agree to a new deal.

 

AC: OK

 

Carroll goes to see Pardew/Llambias/Ashley

 

AC: I want a new deal. I've got all this interest, offering better money, so I want you to give me a better deal.

 

NUFC: No. We just gave you a new deal.

 

AC: Right, well if you won't give me a new deal, I want to speak to Liverpool.

 

NUFC: OK.

 

add this :

 

Kenny Dalglish: Andy, we can offer you the prospect of playing in europe, we want to win trophies here, unlike Newcastle ?

 

AC: Give me a pen

[Guest]

I wonder if something along the lines of the following happened.

 

AGENT: Andy, Liverpool want you, and they'll pay you loads more than you're getting here.

 

AC: I don't really want to leave, Newcastle's my team.

 

AGENT: Well OK, but how about this. Go to the club, and tell them that you want a new contract.

 

AC: I'll wait until the summer, and then I can go to them and say I've had a good season, I think I should get a new deal.

 

AGENT: No do it now. Liverpool want you now. You don't what the situation will be like in the summer. Go and ask them for a new deal, and if they say no, tell them you want to speak to Liverpool. If they really won't sell you, they'll agree to a new deal.

 

AC: OK

 

Carroll goes to see Pardew/Llambias/Ashley

 

AC: I want a new deal. I've got all this interest, offering better money, so I want you to give me a better deal.

 

NUFC: No. We just gave you a new deal.

 

AC: Right, well if you won't give me a new deal, I want to speak to Liverpool.

 

NUFC: OK.

 

add this :

 

Kenny Dalglish: Andy, we can offer you the prospect of playing in europe, we want to win trophies here, unlike Newcastle ?

 

AC: Give me a pen

 

 

KD: Come here Andy, we've got some obsessive fans with comprehension issues. One of them, KopRed, doesn't half go on but he's learning when to shut the fuck up, unlike his Mag equivilent, LeazesMag.

 

AC: Pass tha fuckin' ink.

[Li3nZ 1]

Andy Carroll is young, naive, and (defending his personal position regarding contract request) is like any one of us who would look to improve their salary if there are options on the table elsewhere. Andy did not want to leave this club I am 100% sure of that and this club should have met his contract request in line with the demand for him elsewhere. You do not sell of your best assets you honour them and do everything you can to keep them. I am very close to a member of Andy's immediate family, and I do not have an ounce of doubt inside me that he was treated in a disgusting and ungrateful manner. The stories in the Chronicle are a conservative translation of what I believe has actually happened to avoid causing complete and utter chaos with the fans and club. I do not want to expand on what I have heard but I know a lot of people know the real story about how he has been treated and Mike Ashley should not survive this one, it is one step too far.

 

regarding the transfer fee, stupid money using common sense but the value in real terms is penny shit. Ashley is operating a false economy, the price of relegation far outweighs this individual transfer fee and Andy is the sort of play that can make that difference. I am gutted we have lost this lad and still coming to terms with this shocking decision.

 

It's OK, sooty and sweep our manager and md have promised to reinvest the money in the club, just like they promised to keep their best and most promising player. I expect to see plans for a new 30 mill sportsdirect store in the near future.

[Tom 14013]

Li3nZ.

 

Fucking hell. Next Jackie Milburn will be posting!

[Gemmill 46027]

Whoa! Li3nz. There's a blast from the past. Last time I heard from you you were buying a suitcase full of bricks off some charvers or something.