Andy Carroll - "I was told to leave"

[LeazesMag 0]

sorry but i disagree with people saying carroll wanted to leave its fucking fat twat and lambarse to blame i cant believe people are defending thease two twat faced cunts

 

you mean Skidmark ?

[Kitman 2204]

In relation to the OP, I think both the club and AC are lying. We wanted to sell and he wanted to go. The rest is PR imo.

[Guest]

Can anyone recall a club that hasn't had champions league football for nearly a decade rejecting an offer anywhere near this size?

Apart from Celtic who play in an impoverished and uncompetitive league, can anyone think of a club in Europe that pulls in crowds of 50,000 that doesn’t regularly play in the Champions League?

 

 

What's that got to do with the subject like?

Benchmark to what the club’s aspirations should be.

 

 

Shepherd fucked the CL era up for us by signing a fuck load of average players on CL wages tbf, we hadn't been in it for about 4 years before he left. That's 8 years without CL revenue, with wages on the wage bill of up to 110k at one point too. Upon reflection do we have delusions of grandeur thinking that we could turn down £35m for a player?

 

 

Mike Ashley will never, never, get us into the Champions League, like the Halls and Shepherd did. I told you that earlier this week, for about the hundredth time. Do you still disagree ?

 

 

Right, show me where I've ever disagreed with that statement or permanently shut the fuck up. You continuously put words into people's mouths/make up complete bollocks. So either show me where I've ever disagreed with that statement, in any of the other apparent 99 times you've told me, or accept that you have no credibility and fuck off

[Tooj 17]

Say what you will about Shepherd - I have no doubt that if we ever sold a player for £35 million under him, I have no doubt that the money would be re-invested into the team, even it was just to appease the fans.

[DEADMAN 0]

despite what people think about shepard he was a much better owner than ashley ever was because he spent the money on proper players that could do the job he didnt waste it not like what ashleys doing now selling big money players then bringing in shit

[JamesD 0]

In relation to the OP, I think both the club and AC are lying. We wanted to sell and he wanted to go. The rest is PR imo.

 

I see it that way too.

[OTF 7280]

In relation to the OP, I think both the club and AC are lying. We wanted to sell and he wanted to go. The rest is PR imo.

 

If we offered him the same, or similar wages he would have stayed I reckon. Though his agent would have been pushing for a move.

[Kitman 2204]

In relation to the OP, I think both the club and AC are lying. We wanted to sell and he wanted to go. The rest is PR imo.

 

If we offered him the same, or similar wages he would have stayed I reckon. Though his agent would have been pushing for a move.

 

Why would we match what Liverpool were offering in wages though?

[OTF 7280]

Why would we match what Liverpool were offering in wages though?

 

...because that's what you do if you want to hold onto a valued employee.

[Jackies the Lad 0]

Why would we match what Liverpool were offering in wages though?

 

...because that's what you do if you want to hold onto a valued employee.

where does it all end, -loyal employee, never. Valued employee, maybe he WAS.

 

AC saw big bucks and so did the agent, who can blame them, what a windfall for them. Tell me honestly that you would not go for that.

 

IMO this will rumble on and the Fatman will be laughing all the way to the bank, will he re-invest some or all of he £35 million, never, I guess it's only 35 casino visits.

[OTF 7280]

Why would we match what Liverpool were offering in wages though?

 

...because that's what you do if you want to hold onto a valued employee.

 

I'd like to take this back. I had a minor lapse in brain function. Whilst this might be true in regular workplace negotiations it does not apply here.

 

Andy Carroll should not know what Liverpool are offering wage wise until the club gives Liverpool permission to talk terms with him.

 

Ergo, they should have told Andy Carroll that he wasn't getting an improved contract just yet, and that it would be reviewed at the end of the season* if he continued to perform on and off the field. No doubt because of the shady involvement of agents and the like, Carroll would have been well aware of what Liverpool were offering before the club gave permission to them to talk to him. Regardless of this, he was contracted to the club and so they would have had the final say.

 

* - Just like Hughton's

Edited February 2, 2011 by OzToonFan

[peasepud 59]

Apologies if Im repeating what others have said, Ive not had time to catch up on this thread.

 

Not sure if its a misquote but I remember Pardew stating yesterday that after the Liverpool offer AC said he wanted to renegotiate his contract to make him the highest paid player at the club.

 

Now ignoring the values involved and the fact that the statement doesnt give us any then that in itself is not an unreasonable request. AN Other club values him as the 7th most expensive player ever and they dont value any of our other players in that way then he can legitimately expect to be rewarded accordingly.

 

If another company made an offer to take me on and said they felt I was hugely important to the future of their company then Id expect to be well paid for it. If I liked where I worked however and then looked around and saw other employees (say for instance A.Smith in accounts) who were being paid 30,40,50% more than me but who were never at work or didnt bother when they were here then I'd feel aggrieved and would expect for my loyalty that Id be better paid than them.

 

IF AC has gone in and said "I dont want to leave but if they value me at this then surely I should be paid more than Mr Smith in accounts, give me a more than him and I'll stay" then I dont think thats unreasonable at all.

 

If however he said "they want me at Liverpool, treble my wages or Im off" then I can understand our reluctance to pay it if his demand meant doubling the wage ceiling we've set as that has a knock on effect.

 

It still boils down though to the fact you cannot build a successful team with such a tight wage structure as we have.

[Kitman 2204]

My own take on it is that he was more than entitled to ask for a decent pay rise commensurate with being the club's no. 9 and an England international. I don't think we needed to match what Liverpool were offering though, which was probably silly money and based on CL participation till recently.

 

Plainly we didn't offer him anything at all - which was a mistake imo - but I doubt he would have been interested in anything other than a massive payrise anyway. I think he wanted to go and more importantly Ashley wanted to sell.

[spongebob toonpants 3956]

Apologies if Im repeating what others have said, Ive not had time to catch up on this thread.

 

Not sure if its a misquote but I remember Pardew stating yesterday that after the Liverpool offer AC said he wanted to renegotiate his contract to make him the highest paid player at the club.

 

Now ignoring the values involved and the fact that the statement doesnt give us any then that in itself is not an unreasonable request. AN Other club values him as the 7th most expensive player ever and they dont value any of our other players in that way then he can legitimately expect to be rewarded accordingly.

 

If another company made an offer to take me on and said they felt I was hugely important to the future of their company then Id expect to be well paid for it. If I liked where I worked however and then looked around and saw other employees (say for instance A.Smith in accounts) who were being paid 30,40,50% more than me but who were never at work or didnt bother when they were here then I'd feel aggrieved and would expect for my loyalty that Id be better paid than them.

 

IF AC has gone in and said "I dont want to leave but if they value me at this then surely I should be paid more than Mr Smith in accounts, give me a more than him and I'll stay" then I dont think thats unreasonable at all.

 

If however he said "they want me at Liverpool, treble my wages or Im off" then I can understand our reluctance to pay it if his demand meant doubling the wage ceiling we've set as that has a knock on effect.

 

It still boils down though to the fact you cannot build a successful team with such a tight wage structure as we have.

 

I think they were already having the conversation, and AC thought they were going to renegotiate.

 

I think they could have kept him happy quite easily

[ewerk 30370]

Apologies if Im repeating what others have said, Ive not had time to catch up on this thread.

 

Not sure if its a misquote but I remember Pardew stating yesterday that after the Liverpool offer AC said he wanted to renegotiate his contract to make him the highest paid player at the club.

 

Now ignoring the values involved and the fact that the statement doesnt give us any then that in itself is not an unreasonable request. AN Other club values him as the 7th most expensive player ever and they dont value any of our other players in that way then he can legitimately expect to be rewarded accordingly.

 

If another company made an offer to take me on and said they felt I was hugely important to the future of their company then Id expect to be well paid for it. If I liked where I worked however and then looked around and saw other employees (say for instance A.Smith in accounts) who were being paid 30,40,50% more than me but who were never at work or didnt bother when they were here then I'd feel aggrieved and would expect for my loyalty that Id be better paid than them.

 

IF AC has gone in and said "I dont want to leave but if they value me at this then surely I should be paid more than Mr Smith in accounts, give me a more than him and I'll stay" then I dont think thats unreasonable at all.

 

If however he said "they want me at Liverpool, treble my wages or Im off" then I can understand our reluctance to pay it if his demand meant doubling the wage ceiling we've set as that has a knock on effect.

 

It still boils down though to the fact you cannot build a successful team with such a tight wage structure as we have.

 

I would agree with you but for the fact that he signed a new deal just three months ago.

[spongebob toonpants 3956]

Apologies if Im repeating what others have said, Ive not had time to catch up on this thread.

 

Not sure if its a misquote but I remember Pardew stating yesterday that after the Liverpool offer AC said he wanted to renegotiate his contract to make him the highest paid player at the club.

 

Now ignoring the values involved and the fact that the statement doesnt give us any then that in itself is not an unreasonable request. AN Other club values him as the 7th most expensive player ever and they dont value any of our other players in that way then he can legitimately expect to be rewarded accordingly.

 

If another company made an offer to take me on and said they felt I was hugely important to the future of their company then Id expect to be well paid for it. If I liked where I worked however and then looked around and saw other employees (say for instance A.Smith in accounts) who were being paid 30,40,50% more than me but who were never at work or didnt bother when they were here then I'd feel aggrieved and would expect for my loyalty that Id be better paid than them.

 

IF AC has gone in and said "I dont want to leave but if they value me at this then surely I should be paid more than Mr Smith in accounts, give me a more than him and I'll stay" then I dont think thats unreasonable at all.

 

If however he said "they want me at Liverpool, treble my wages or Im off" then I can understand our reluctance to pay it if his demand meant doubling the wage ceiling we've set as that has a knock on effect.

 

It still boils down though to the fact you cannot build a successful team with such a tight wage structure as we have.

 

I would agree with you but for the fact that he signed a new deal just three months ago.

 

As I have said before the length of time ago the contract was signed is irrelevant. His worth was redefined by Liverpool's wage offer and valuation

[ewerk 30370]

As I have said before the length of time ago the contract was signed is irrelevant. His worth was redefined by Liverpool's wage offer and valuation

 

It was and it wasn't. While Liverpool were obviously offering him a payrise, he hadn't suddenly improved massively as a footballer in the last three months whereby he deserved another new contract.

[spongebob toonpants 3956]

As I have said before the length of time ago the contract was signed is irrelevant. His worth was redefined by Liverpool's wage offer and valuation

 

It was and it wasn't. While Liverpool were obviously offering him a payrise, he hadn't suddenly improved massively as a footballer in the last three months whereby he deserved another new contract.

 

He had proved he could cut it in the premiership over that period, scoring freely and being described as unplayable by pundits left right and centre. Thats a pretty recent developement.

[manc-mag 1]

Apologies if Im repeating what others have said, Ive not had time to catch up on this thread.

 

Not sure if its a misquote but I remember Pardew stating yesterday that after the Liverpool offer AC said he wanted to renegotiate his contract to make him the highest paid player at the club.

 

Now ignoring the values involved and the fact that the statement doesnt give us any then that in itself is not an unreasonable request. AN Other club values him as the 7th most expensive player ever and they dont value any of our other players in that way then he can legitimately expect to be rewarded accordingly.

 

If another company made an offer to take me on and said they felt I was hugely important to the future of their company then Id expect to be well paid for it. If I liked where I worked however and then looked around and saw other employees (say for instance A.Smith in accounts) who were being paid 30,40,50% more than me but who were never at work or didnt bother when they were here then I'd feel aggrieved and would expect for my loyalty that Id be better paid than them.

 

IF AC has gone in and said "I dont want to leave but if they value me at this then surely I should be paid more than Mr Smith in accounts, give me a more than him and I'll stay" then I dont think thats unreasonable at all.

 

If however he said "they want me at Liverpool, treble my wages or Im off" then I can understand our reluctance to pay it if his demand meant doubling the wage ceiling we've set as that has a knock on effect.

 

It still boils down though to the fact you cannot build a successful team with such a tight wage structure as we have.

 

I would agree with you but for the fact that he signed a new deal just three months ago.

 

As I have said before the length of time ago the contract was signed is irrelevant. His worth was redefined by Liverpool's wage offer and valuation

 

 

The three months has some relevance imo-that contract had only just been agreed. Equally if he or any other player goes through a shit patch and their value drops, should we approach them to negotiate their salaries downwards? Obviously not.

 

I've got a real world view on this so I do take the general point-I realise that there are instances where you've got to re-visit contracts etc while they are still current in order to reflect significant increases to the valuation placed on assets and to fend of competitors, but I don't think that was what was in issue with this deal. It's been said before but the deal suited Liverpool, Carroll and Ashley. We clearly wanted the fee, Carroll will have known this and why be at a club that wants to cash in on you? So the salary issue alone is a bit of a red herring. If he'd been on a massive salary and Liverpool had agreed to match it, he'd have been away as long as Liverpool were waving £35 million under Ashley's snout.

 

The broader point though-ie how this all boils down to money-is clearly valid.

[Guest alex]

As I have said before the length of time ago the contract was signed is irrelevant. His worth was redefined by Liverpool's wage offer and valuation

 

It was and it wasn't. While Liverpool were obviously offering him a payrise, he hadn't suddenly improved massively as a footballer in the last three months whereby he deserved another new contract.

From an unknown entity at this level to a player worth £35m (on the basis any player is worth what people are willing to pay for them).

[Christmas Tree 4711]

As a young lad who has come through the club, being looked after by the club through his mis adventures, and only completed half a season in the premiership on a much improved contract length and salary, he should have had the good decency to continue his recovery and then enter into re-negogiations in the summer as preferred by the club.

 

He shouldnt have been giving it all Billy Big Balls, especially bearing in mind his undying love for the club and talk of being the next Shearer.

 

He has blown a golden opportunity imo.

[Guest alex]

As a young lad who has come through the club, being looked after by the club through his mis adventures, and only completed half a season in the premiership on a much improved contract length and salary, he should have had the good decency to continue his recovery and then enter into re-negogiations in the summer as preferred by the club.

 

He shouldnt have been giving it all Billy Big Balls, especially bearing in mind his undying love for the club and talk of being the next Shearer.

 

He has blown a golden opportunity imo.

I think you have to look at both sides of the story and, even giving the club the benefit of the doubt (not sure why you could reasonably expect honesty from them though given their track record), you'd have to say the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the two tales. With that in mind the club were more than happy to take the money on offer and they'd have known that they'd have to increase Carroll's current salary if they expected him to stay. I suspect they weren't prepared to take the chance on his worth never being as high again and let the player know they wanted to sell him.

[manc-mag 1]

As a young lad who has come through the club, being looked after by the club through his mis adventures, and only completed half a season in the premiership on a much improved contract length and salary, he should have had the good decency to continue his recovery and then enter into re-negogiations in the summer as preferred by the club.

 

He shouldnt have been giving it all Billy Big Balls, especially bearing in mind his undying love for the club and talk of being the next Shearer.

 

He has blown a golden opportunity imo.

I think you have to look at both sides of the story and, even giving the club the benefit of the doubt (not sure why you could reasonably expect honesty from them though given their track record), you'd have to say the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the two tales. With that in mind the club were more than happy to take the money on offer and they'd have known that they'd have to increase Carroll's current salary if they expected him to stay. I suspect they weren't prepared to take the chance on his worth never being as high again and let the player know they wanted to sell him.

 

Summed up.

 

And like many others I wouldn't have had horrendous problems with them taking that position if the money was getting ploughed back in. It's the re-investment that simply won't materialise that matters. Particularly as you really could make real and meaningful improvements to the team with that sort of cash in the right market.

[ChezGiven 0]

Its doubtful whether we would have got £35m for Carroll if we actually planned to sell him. As soon as you search the markets, the agent inform each other and then offers for Carroll would be lower knowing you are prepared to sell. It only the lack of 'preparedness' from a willingness and planning perspective that drives the price so high. Bit of catch 22 in a way as there is no way of planning for his departure without signalling a weakness in negotiation to the market.

[spongebob toonpants 3956]

Its doubtful whether we would have got £35m for Carroll if we actually planned to sell him. As soon as you search the markets, the agent inform each other and then offers for Carroll would be lower knowing you are prepared to sell. It only the lack of 'preparedness' from a willingness and planning perspective that drives the price so high. Bit of catch 22 in a way as there is no way of planning for his departure without signalling a weakness in negotiation to the market.

 

I thought it was accepted that he had been touted round as available. I know SpivHarry said it and I'm sure I've seen it elsewhere