Ashley's Transfer History thread

[Toonpack 9463]

It's for those who insist that football clubs that go into debt go bust, because they do not in by far the vast majority of cases.

 

There are millions of books on every subject written by people who claim to be experts which are still complete and utter drivel.

 

 

Haven't 54 teams went into administration?

 

 

Yep, and if the protectionist "football creditors rule" didn't exist a goodly number of them would undoubtedly have ceased to be, of course they may have come back/been reborn as AFC Whoever.

[Guest alex]

To justify Ashley's transfer policy is one thing. Hoping for Europe on the back of it is another thing altogether.

 

The Europa League that nobody wants to be in?

 

Our squad would implode under the stress of having to play Raylor for 30 or so games a season. There's a reason nobody wants to qualify for it.

 

 

(not implying that you think we should be aiming for it).

Funny how sides talk about wanting to qualify for Europe then treat the competition with such disdain once they're in it. And Blackpool and Birmingham might as well drop out now, given the teams they're likely to field in it due to having to play 46 games in the league alone.

[Barney 0]

Blackpool didn't get the last spot, Fulham did via fair play. Despite Fulham's best efforts at getting yellow & red cards for the last 3/4 matches.

 

Seeing Liverpool and Spurs fighting over who wouldn't get into the competition was embarassing. Clubs don't want the minimal tv/bonus money from it as it's likely to impact on league position. Getting to the final I think is worth in the region of £15m.

 

Fulham begin their first game in 8 days

[ChezGiven 0]

It's for those who insist that football clubs that go into debt go bust, because they do not in by far the vast majority of cases.

 

There are millions of books on every subject written by people who claim to be experts which are still complete and utter drivel.

 

 

Haven't 54 teams went into administration?

 

 

Yep, and if the protectionist "football creditors rule" didn't exist a goodly number of them would undoubtedly have ceased to be, of course they may have come back/been reborn as AFC Whoever.

If you earn £90m a year and spend £100m a year, after 10 years you are £100m in debt or have 100% leverage. Greece is about to implode because of this type of thinking. If a country can default because of debt, it can definitely threaten the existence of a football club.

 

As i said before, the difference is the club is an asset to be bought. You can invade Greece to take ownership but you cant buy it by paying the debt off. You can argue that the bond market now 'owns' Greece in much the same way that the hedge funds who lent the Glazers money would own Man U if disaster struck and they failed to qualify for Europe (or were relegated, however implausible). Man U wont go away but it has, in this scenario, just gone bust.

[Christmas Tree 4729]

To justify Ashley's transfer policy is one thing. Hoping for Europe on the back of it is another thing altogether.

 

The Europa League that nobody wants to be in?

 

Our squad would implode under the stress of having to play Raylor for 30 or so games a season. There's a reason nobody wants to qualify for it.

 

 

(not implying that you think we should be aiming for it).

 

While I agree its a drain and doesn't offer much financial reward, I and I guess a vast majority of fans would love to be in it.

 

I have probably argued for and against this in my time but I think it would be fun, exciting and help with recruitment overseas.

[Guest alex]

Blackpool didn't get the last spot, Fulham did via fair play. Despite Fulham's best efforts at getting yellow & red cards for the last 3/4 matches.

 

Seeing Liverpool and Spurs fighting over who wouldn't get into the competition was embarassing. Clubs don't want the minimal tv/bonus money from it as it's likely to impact on league position. Getting to the final I think is worth in the region of £15m.

 

Fulham begin their first game in 8 days

Ah right. Applies to Brum though. Can't see Fulham putting a great side out either like.

[carrolll40th 0]

To justify Ashley's transfer policy is one thing. Hoping for Europe on the back of it is another thing altogether.

 

The Europa League that nobody wants to be in?

 

Our squad would implode under the stress of having to play Raylor for 30 or so games a season. There's a reason nobody wants to qualify for it.

 

 

(not implying that you think we should be aiming for it).

 

While I agree its a drain and doesn't offer much financial reward, I and I guess a vast majority of fans would love to be in it.

 

I have probably argued for and against this in my time but I think it would be fun, exciting and help with recruitment overseas.

i think for the fans of the top 6 the competition is just another carling cup but for the fans of the smaller teams its a great opportunity to follow their club around europe and maybe like Portsmouth get a glamorous tie like milan.

[Guest alex]

I think winning it is a big deal for virtually every side. It's the seemingly endless early rounds against shit opposition that ruins it.

[carrolll40th 0]

the prise money isnt great but the extra gate money should make it worth the while plus if you get to the latta stages the club name will be enhanced

were not in it so dont really care for it

[Gemmill 44988]

To justify Ashley's transfer policy is one thing. Hoping for Europe on the back of it is another thing altogether.

 

The Europa League that nobody wants to be in?

 

Our squad would implode under the stress of having to play Raylor for 30 or so games a season. There's a reason nobody wants to qualify for it.

 

 

(not implying that you think we should be aiming for it).

 

While I agree its a drain and doesn't offer much financial reward, I and I guess a vast majority of fans would love to be in it.

 

I have probably argued for and against this in my time but I think it would be fun, exciting and help with recruitment overseas.

There speaks a man who's never sat through a shit UEFA cup tie against the best Estonia has to offer in a half empty SJP.

[Happy Face 29]

You love bare naked facts dont you but its such a daft way of looking at the world. 'We were 5th, then sold Carroll, then finished 12th'. Are you seriously trying to establish cause and effect there? Carroll hardly played after christmas and got 2 goals in a better team. Is it because its CT and you think there is no point in actually providing reasoned analysis, simplistic mindless statements will do?

 

Our objective last season was survival, we were 1 minute away from 9th. There was no push last season for anything. The club are now saying they want top 10, if they over-perform against objectives next season, we will be pushing for Europe. Not saying its going to happen but under-estimating the quality of the playing staff is a common trait on this forum. We wouldnt get promoted, we wouldnt survive in the premiership and after the sale of Carroll we would get relegated. The reason i started that 'who was right thread' was as a reminder that the same polemic dominating discussions hasnt gone away despite it being consistently wrong since we were relegated. You might dispute your role in that but i dont care, its a bare naked fact.

 

No, I'm not establishing cause and effect there. I like your slur on CT though.

 

There's certain things that clubs do that are statements of intent. There's hundreds of little things in and around the club that dictate the direction it takes, the vast majority of which we have no view of. But then there's tent pole moves that indicate the driving philosiphy at work. Spending £24m on Bent suggested to me that Villa are all about performing in the Premier league, and that along with the hundreds of other things saw them shoot out of the mire they'd found themselves in.

 

Selling Carroll has the opposite effect, amongst the hundreds of other things that go on at the club we know nowt about. Have our best players sounded happy this summer? It's the same as the outcry over the sale of Andy Cole all those years ago.....the fears that we were on a downward spiral were allayed when the money was reinvested and then some.

 

Remains to be seen if Ashley allays our fears in a similar fashion. As it stands though, I'll add a prediction to the tracker that we don't improve on last seasons final league position, whatever anyone thinks of how much better the squad is on paper come September 1st.

Edited June 22, 2011 by Happy Face

[LeazesMag 0]

You love bare naked facts dont you but its such a daft way of looking at the world. 'We were 5th, then sold Carroll, then finished 12th'. Are you seriously trying to establish cause and effect there? Carroll hardly played after christmas and got 2 goals in a better team. Is it because its CT and you think there is no point in actually providing reasoned analysis, simplistic mindless statements will do?

 

Our objective last season was survival, we were 1 minute away from 9th. There was no push last season for anything. The club are now saying they want top 10, if they over-perform against objectives next season, we will be pushing for Europe. Not saying its going to happen but under-estimating the quality of the playing staff is a common trait on this forum. We wouldnt get promoted, we wouldnt survive in the premiership and after the sale of Carroll we would get relegated. The reason i started that 'who was right thread' was as a reminder that the same polemic dominating discussions hasnt gone away despite it being consistently wrong since we were relegated. You might dispute your role in that but i dont care, its a bare naked fact.

 

No, I'm not establishing cause and effect there. I like your slur on CT though.

 

There's certain things that clubs do that are statements of intent. There's hundreds of little things in and around the club that dictate the direction it takes, the vast majority of which we have no view of. But then there's tent pole moves that indicate the driving philosiphy at work. Spending £24m on Bent suggested to me that Villa are all about performing in the Premier league, and that along with the hundreds of other things saw them shoot out of the mire they'd found themselves in.

 

Selling Carroll has the opposite effect, amongst the hundreds of other things that go on at the club we know nowt about. Have our best players sounded happy this summer? It's the same as the outcry over the sale of Andy Cole all those years ago.....the fears that we were on a downward spiral were allayed when the money was reinvested and then some.

 

Remains to be seen if Ashley allays our fears in a similar fashion. As it stands though, I'll add a prediction to the tracker that we don't improve on last seasons final league position , whatever anyone thinks of how much better the squad is on paper come September 1st.

 

you can add me to that

 

Edit

 

and you are absolutely correct in the comment about "indications"

Edited June 22, 2011 by LeazesMag

[ChezGiven 0]

Bit early for predictions on final positions next season. If nothing changes, that might be fair as we've not replaced Carroll really but that could get worse or better from here. Plenty of time left for things to change dramatically either way.

[Happy Face 29]

Bit early for predictions on final positions next season. If nothing changes, that might be fair as we've not replaced Carroll really but that could get worse or better from here. Plenty of time left for things to change dramatically either way.

 

I'm of the opinion that you add a few quality signings to an already motivated squad in order to improve.

 

We only won 3 of our last 17 games at the back end of last season. Birmingham twice, and Wolves. So I think our final position flattereed Pardew as it was.

 

Barton, Nolan, Enrique, Jonas, Carroll and Collo were the heart of that "success" and they're either gone or making noises about when they'll go.

 

You cannot replace the best half of your team in a single summer with players that have no Premier league experience and expect them to gel/perform immediately.

 

I'm willing to stick my neck out on this score before the window closes.

[ChezGiven 0]

Bit early for predictions on final positions next season. If nothing changes, that might be fair as we've not replaced Carroll really but that could get worse or better from here. Plenty of time left for things to change dramatically either way.

 

I'm of the opinion that you add a few quality signings to an already motivated squad in order to improve.

 

We only won 3 of our last 17 games at the back end of last season. Birmingham twice, and Wolves. So I think our final position flattereed Pardew as it was.

 

Barton, Nolan, Enrique, Jonas, Carroll and Collo were the heart of that "success" and they're either gone or making noises about when they'll go.

 

You cannot replace the best half of your team in a single summer with players that have no Premier league experience and expect them to gel/perform immediately.

 

I'm willing to stick my neck out on this score before the window closes.

Thats a number of predictions then. First that those 4 players will leave and that secondly, none of the arrivals are going to be that exciting/top quality and thirdly that they wont have enough time to gel (or maybe not enough quality) for us to better this year's position.

 

Neck firmly stuck out, fair play.

[Happy Face 29]

Bit early for predictions on final positions next season. If nothing changes, that might be fair as we've not replaced Carroll really but that could get worse or better from here. Plenty of time left for things to change dramatically either way.

 

I'm of the opinion that you add a few quality signings to an already motivated squad in order to improve.

 

We only won 3 of our last 17 games at the back end of last season. Birmingham twice, and Wolves. So I think our final position flattereed Pardew as it was.

 

Barton, Nolan, Enrique, Jonas, Carroll and Collo were the heart of that "success" and they're either gone or making noises about when they'll go.

 

You cannot replace the best half of your team in a single summer with players that have no Premier league experience and expect them to gel/perform immediately.

 

I'm willing to stick my neck out on this score before the window closes.

Thats a number of predictions then. First that those 4 players will leave and that secondly, none of the arrivals are going to be that exciting/top quality and thirdly that they wont have enough time to gel (or maybe not enough quality) for us to better this year's position.

 

Neck firmly stuck out, fair play.

 

They don't all have to go. Even if it's just Enrique in addition to Nolan and Carroll, that's 3 pretty important first team regulars to replace with inexperienced kids who need time to settle. Obviously the more that do go, the harder it'll be.

 

EDIT: In my opinion we needed a first team right back, a centre back and a Striker or two. Demba Ba fills one of those criteria so far.

Edited June 22, 2011 by Happy Face

[LeazesMag 0]

Bit early for predictions on final positions next season. If nothing changes, that might be fair as we've not replaced Carroll really but that could get worse or better from here. Plenty of time left for things to change dramatically either way.

 

I'm of the opinion that you add a few quality signings to an already motivated squad in order to improve.

 

We only won 3 of our last 17 games at the back end of last season. Birmingham twice, and Wolves. So I think our final position flattereed Pardew as it was.

 

Barton, Nolan, Enrique, Jonas, Carroll and Collo were the heart of that "success" and they're either gone or making noises about when they'll go.

 

You cannot replace the best half of your team in a single summer with players that have no Premier league experience and expect them to gel/perform immediately.

 

I'm willing to stick my neck out on this score before the window closes.

 

same here, I'm totally convinced of Mike Ashleys ambitions and intentions for the club. In fact I'll go further and say that last season - unless his transfer policy [aye the subject of this thread] dramatically and unexpectedly changes - may be the highest we ever finish while he owns it. If we ever do better, it will only be a blip and it won't be by much. We will NEVER qualify for europe through league position, nailed on.

 

How much of the Carroll cash has the manager been allowed to strengthen the team with so far ?

[Kitman 2207]

How much of the Carroll cash has the manager been allowed to strengthen the team with so far ?

 

I suppose we'll have to wait and see on that score, because there's still a long way to go till the transfer window shuts. I'm actually pretty impressed that we've secured 3 players this early on to tell the truth. I have a feeling that the club will spend about 10 mill net on transfers, probably the sort of investment they intended before the Carroll transfer came along. That's not based on anything other than my own pessimism, I'd be delighted if they spent more.

[Ollie Burtons Grandad 0]

Whilst one of our "buys" is a skilled French international who will help to improve our team the other two are players with bloody awful injury records. Not wanting to piss on the chips of all the thinking positive people we have here but how many games did we get from Gosling last season?

Most free transfers come with a history and buying crocks is not a cunning plan as they tend to miss alot of games and have a piss poor sell on fee. Putting Best and Ranger up for sale whilst only bringing in "Dodgy knees" Baa is somewhat fucktarded as we were not exactly scoring freely at the end of last season were we?

Before the Ashleyites say it I will wait until the transfer window shuts until I slag the tight fisted lying cunt off, but so far its not that encouraging.

[peasepud 59]

How much of the Carroll cash has the manager been allowed to strengthen the team with so far ?

My calculation (which is prone to huge error!) is £23m of the £35m spent so far.

[Kitman 2207]

How much of the Carroll cash has the manager been allowed to strengthen the team with so far ?

My calculation (which is prone to huge error!) is £23m of the £35m spent so far.

 

Presumably that's mostly future wages?

[Barney 0]

You got Tiote's wges in with that, Pud?

[Guest alex]

To justify Ashley's transfer policy is one thing. Hoping for Europe on the back of it is another thing altogether.

 

The Europa League that nobody wants to be in?

 

Our squad would implode under the stress of having to play Raylor for 30 or so games a season. There's a reason nobody wants to qualify for it.

 

 

(not implying that you think we should be aiming for it).

 

While I agree its a drain and doesn't offer much financial reward, I and I guess a vast majority of fans would love to be in it.

 

I have probably argued for and against this in my time but I think it would be fun, exciting and help with recruitment overseas.

There speaks a man who's never sat through a shit UEFA cup tie against the best Estonia has to offer in a half empty SJP.

Aye, the vast majority of fans loved being in the competition so much that they didn't bother going to the games.

[StevieRoss 0]

"In fact I'll go further and say that last season - unless his transfer policy [aye the subject of this thread] dramatically and unexpectedly changes - may be the highest we ever finish while he owns it. If we ever do better, it will only be a blip and it won't be by much. We will NEVER qualify for europe through league position, nailed on. " LM

 

Agreed. It's obvious that Ashley is never going to go on a Chelsea/Man City (or even Liverpool) type spending spree, so we won't be "buying" our way into Europe. But he has to invest enough into the squad to avoid relegation. So this Summer is all about shoring up a mid-table position while reducing the wages bill and hoping to turn up another Carroll-type windfall to sell on. So older, high earners go. And that's maybe not a bad thing altogether...

[manc-mag 1]

It'd be great if he were to get a hard-on about being a football club owner again like when he first took over, because now (in terms of the playing staff at least) it's a solid core of professionals who want to play for the club and thus very good conditions for building a genuinely competitive side. The distractions and deadwood that had no business being here are all but gone (save for Smith) and thus new signings would be getting a much better introduction and ethic from the established set up. Sadly though I think on balance a lot of that potential will be sacrificed if there's a mass dismantling of last season's key framework. That's when you need that twitch in your pants as an owner to just have a slightly more deferred view of the economics and get swept up with the football again and allow that to compensate for any potential £4-5 million 'hit' (ie transfer devaluation) you might personally take on retaining a couple of your top players. It's hard to take when you think that sort of cash is only half the amount that we used to routinely spunk on complete wasters. I'd love to be proved wrong and we start the season with Barton, Jonas, Jose and Collo but I'd be surprised. If nothing else, Pardew's appointment was to preside over a transfer policy that was devolved to Llambias.

 

I'm firmly of the view that if you don't acknowledge it's Fat Mike's money on the line you're completely delusional-and for that reason I don't get hysterical and say it's the Toon's God given right to buy/retain XYZ because we've got the third biggest ground in the league etc etc. You can't ignore the finances when credit lines have been exhausted, but as Alex has said, you'd like to think a happy medium was possible for someone of Ashley's resources. He might even enjoy going to the match and witnessing the effects of building a good team. There's a notion.