Ashley's Transfer History thread

[LeazesMag 0]

What the fuck is that article about? Great depression, second world war etc etc. Football had a wage cap til Jimmy Hill ffs. And it had illegal contract clauses (transfer fees) til Bosman. You're not kidding it was different to mainstream business and no wonder it was fucking stable as a result. The point is that since those things (wage cap/abolition of illegal transfer fees), together with TV money, player wages and power have now become so demented that it is now an unstable business. Unless you've got someone bankrolling you. But then if you have got someone bankrolling you, you have to do what they fucking say unfortunately and you're at the mercy of who that individual is.

 

Btw seriously: "For comparison, the economic historian Les Hannah made a list of the top 100 companies in 1912, and researched what had become of them by 1995. Nearly half the companies - 49 - had ceased to exist. Five of these had gone bankrupt, 6 were nationalised, and 37 were taken over by other firms. Even among the businesses that survived, many had gone into new sectors or moved to new locations" So five had gone bankrupt in 80 years? 37 were taken over. Cadbury were 'taken over' this year ffs, but it wasnt because they'd gone bust. Quite the opposite in fact, it's because they were massively massively profitable and hence attractive to a competitor.

 

That article is one of the worst pieces of anything I've ever read. Do you actually evaluate the quality of what's being said in an article Leazes or do you just quote anything that holds itself out as supportive of your viewpoint?

 

Seriously it's utter cobblers. Even all these years later it astonishes me how you present an argument.

 

Has he pulled out the old, football clubs don't go bust like commercial businesses comparison and preposterous bollocks again

 

and your Denis Cassidy is a well balanced piece of journalism by a bloke without an axe to grind, who would have sold players in the Mike Ashley way rather than buy Laurent Robert and Craig Bellamy to get back into the Champions League

 

September 1st is getting closer......

[NJS 4365]

It's for those who insist that football clubs that go into debt go bust, because they do not in by far the vast majority of cases.

 

There are millions of books on every subject written by people who claim to be experts which are still complete and utter drivel.

 

 

Haven't 54 teams went into administration?

[Christmas Tree 4679]

a hundred mill to break the top 6 and get into the Europa cup which returns nothing to a club.

 

The gambles got to be worth it and at the moment, 100 million ish to get the top 6 is not a good gamble. (from an owners point of view).

 

I see nothing wrong with the approach being taken.

 

Imo the club is correct in thinking that improvements to the squad should allow us to "challenging" for Europe.

 

The only uncertainty is whether this total re-model going on will leave us with an improved squad. The club seem to think it will and only the end of the window will tell.

 

But if it does then I see no reason why we wont be able to challenge for Europe.

 

Again, I'm confused.

 

Toontoon insists we can't afford to push for europe year after year....and he says Ashley knows this and won't spend the money to push for it. You agree it's too much of a gamble. But you and Ashley still both think we'll make that push for europe without spending any the hundrerd million odd you all know and state is needed.

 

I'll un-confuse you

 

Your posts indicate a view that it is either spunk a load of cash to chase the dream or survive.

 

My point is that year on year improvement might also achieve a European place. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

 

Last season should of been 9th. Put out a better team next year and we should be looking to aim higher, ie challenging for Europe.

 

 

You think we'll be able to challenge the 5 available european positions along with the rest of the 'big 6' (Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool and Spurs) without buying a top striker or keeping hold of any quality striker we're able to produce internally?

 

 

Am I not right in thinking that quite often the team in 6th or 7th can qualify? Has that scenario changed ?

 

And yes I dont see any reason why we cant "challenge" Spurs or Liverpool. (Thats not saying I think we'll finish 5th or 6th btw)

[Guest alex]

7th is basically the best we can realistically hope for at present. That's not me saying I think we will either.

[NJS 4365]

7th is basically the best we can realistically hope for at present. That's not me saying I think we will either.

 

That's what I think as well - though a "good" season combined with trouble elsewhere could see us higher. Be interesing to see what Spurs do if Modric stays transfer wise or indeed if he goes.

 

There are a few teams who think they can aim for 7th as well.

[Christmas Tree 4679]

Some people seem to forget that there are people out there who know what they're doing who are also aiming for the year-on-year improvement. It's a canny bit easier said than done.

 

I agree its not easy but that doesnt mean we cant do it.

 

And tbf (not that I take a great deal of interest in other clubs), but I haven't seen much evidence of any strong pushes to really improve next year from any other teams outside the top 6.

 

Out of the pack that you think would be pushing Liverpool and Spurs, such as .....

 

Everton, Fulham, Villa, Sunderland

 

I think we have as good a, if not better, chance than any of them.

[Guest alex]

Some people seem to forget that there are people out there who know what they're doing who are also aiming for the year-on-year improvement. It's a canny bit easier said than done.

 

I agree its not easy but that doesnt mean we cant do it.

 

And tbf (not that I take a great deal of interest in other clubs), but I haven't seen much evidence of any strong pushes to really improve next year from any other teams outside the top 6.

 

Out of the pack that you think would be pushing Liverpool and Spurs, such as .....

 

Everton, Fulham, Villa, Sunderland

 

I think we have as good a, if not better, chance than any of them.

Based on little more than blind optimism at a guess though.

[manc-mag 1]

What the fuck is that article about? Great depression, second world war etc etc. Football had a wage cap til Jimmy Hill ffs. And it had illegal contract clauses (transfer fees) til Bosman. You're not kidding it was different to mainstream business and no wonder it was fucking stable as a result. The point is that since those things (wage cap/abolition of illegal transfer fees), together with TV money, player wages and power have now become so demented that it is now an unstable business. Unless you've got someone bankrolling you. But then if you have got someone bankrolling you, you have to do what they fucking say unfortunately and you're at the mercy of who that individual is.

 

Btw seriously: "For comparison, the economic historian Les Hannah made a list of the top 100 companies in 1912, and researched what had become of them by 1995. Nearly half the companies - 49 - had ceased to exist. Five of these had gone bankrupt, 6 were nationalised, and 37 were taken over by other firms. Even among the businesses that survived, many had gone into new sectors or moved to new locations" So five had gone bankrupt in 80 years? 37 were taken over. Cadbury were 'taken over' this year ffs, but it wasnt because they'd gone bust. Quite the opposite in fact, it's because they were massively massively profitable and hence attractive to a competitor.

 

That article is one of the worst pieces of anything I've ever read. Do you actually evaluate the quality of what's being said in an article Leazes or do you just quote anything that holds itself out as supportive of your viewpoint?

 

Seriously it's utter cobblers. Even all these years later it astonishes me how you present an argument.

 

it's an extract from a book written by 2 people who have studied football and business, and the effect on business in football. You should read a bit more and educate yourself

 

It's for those who insist that football clubs that go into debt go bust, because they do not in by far the vast majority of cases.

 

I'm not "presenting an argument" by the way, I'm been saying "for all these years" that football is all about winning on the pitch [without dispute] and in the case of a club like NUFC a team that is winning on the pitch the sky is the limit.If others disagree, some of whom have only been going to games or watching NUFC for a few minutes, that is their problem.

 

I know what it says like, but it's a terrible arguing point all the same, backed up by some equally terrible illustrations.

 

Football has gone from being an unnaturally stable business (due to illegal, protectionist employment practices) to an unstable one (due to the advent of normal employment practices converging with insane amounts of money) in it's very recent history. Quite what the fuck the great depression and the second world war have to teach us about today's football finances is beyond my powers of deduction. You can 'educate' me if you want to explain though. For me it actually defeats the point that it's trying to make.

 

As to the point about winning on the pitch, well obviously I agree with that, but some of us are trying to take a more forensic approach to how that's managed. Why can't you participate in that discussion? It's more valid than dealing in cliches and rehearsing old debates. Seriously.

[Christmas Tree 4679]

Some people seem to forget that there are people out there who know what they're doing who are also aiming for the year-on-year improvement. It's a canny bit easier said than done.

 

I agree its not easy but that doesnt mean we cant do it.

 

And tbf (not that I take a great deal of interest in other clubs), but I haven't seen much evidence of any strong pushes to really improve next year from any other teams outside the top 6.

 

Out of the pack that you think would be pushing Liverpool and Spurs, such as .....

 

Everton, Fulham, Villa, Sunderland

 

I think we have as good a, if not better, chance than any of them.

Based on little more than blind optimism at a guess though.

 

Optimism plays a part but there are other factors for me such as the areas that I thought we were weak last year are being addressed. Combine that with the style of football that Pardew seems to want to play and I think / hope we do well.

[LeazesMag 0]

What the fuck is that article about? Great depression, second world war etc etc. Football had a wage cap til Jimmy Hill ffs. And it had illegal contract clauses (transfer fees) til Bosman. You're not kidding it was different to mainstream business and no wonder it was fucking stable as a result. The point is that since those things (wage cap/abolition of illegal transfer fees), together with TV money, player wages and power have now become so demented that it is now an unstable business. Unless you've got someone bankrolling you. But then if you have got someone bankrolling you, you have to do what they fucking say unfortunately and you're at the mercy of who that individual is.

 

Btw seriously: "For comparison, the economic historian Les Hannah made a list of the top 100 companies in 1912, and researched what had become of them by 1995. Nearly half the companies - 49 - had ceased to exist. Five of these had gone bankrupt, 6 were nationalised, and 37 were taken over by other firms. Even among the businesses that survived, many had gone into new sectors or moved to new locations" So five had gone bankrupt in 80 years? 37 were taken over. Cadbury were 'taken over' this year ffs, but it wasnt because they'd gone bust. Quite the opposite in fact, it's because they were massively massively profitable and hence attractive to a competitor.

 

That article is one of the worst pieces of anything I've ever read. Do you actually evaluate the quality of what's being said in an article Leazes or do you just quote anything that holds itself out as supportive of your viewpoint?

 

Seriously it's utter cobblers. Even all these years later it astonishes me how you present an argument.

 

it's an extract from a book written by 2 people who have studied football and business, and the effect on business in football. You should read a bit more and educate yourself

 

It's for those who insist that football clubs that go into debt go bust, because they do not in by far the vast majority of cases.

 

I'm not "presenting an argument" by the way, I'm been saying "for all these years" that football is all about winning on the pitch [without dispute] and in the case of a club like NUFC a team that is winning on the pitch the sky is the limit.If others disagree, some of whom have only been going to games or watching NUFC for a few minutes, that is their problem.

 

I know what it says like, but it's a terrible arguing point all the same, backed up by some equally terrible illustrations.

 

Football has gone from being an unnaturally stable business (due to illegal, protectionist employment practices) to an unstable one (due to the advent of normal employment practices converging with insane amounts of money) in it's very recent history. Quite what the fuck the great depression and the second world war have to teach us about today's football finances is beyond my powers of deduction. You can 'educate' me if you want to explain though. For me it actually defeats the point that it's trying to make.

 

As to the point about winning on the pitch, well obviously I agree with that, but some of us are trying to take a more forensic approach to how that's managed. Why can't you participate in that discussion? It's more valid than dealing in cliches and rehearsing old debates. Seriously.

 

"wait until September 1st"

"would have gone into administration"

"profit"

"good business"

"cheaper and younger"

"Tiote was only 3.5m quid and he could be as good as him"

"saved the club"

"no more debts"

 

cliches ?

 

Old debates ?

[Christmas Tree 4679]

What the fuck is that article about? Great depression, second world war etc etc. Football had a wage cap til Jimmy Hill ffs. And it had illegal contract clauses (transfer fees) til Bosman. You're not kidding it was different to mainstream business and no wonder it was fucking stable as a result. The point is that since those things (wage cap/abolition of illegal transfer fees), together with TV money, player wages and power have now become so demented that it is now an unstable business. Unless you've got someone bankrolling you. But then if you have got someone bankrolling you, you have to do what they fucking say unfortunately and you're at the mercy of who that individual is.

 

Btw seriously: "For comparison, the economic historian Les Hannah made a list of the top 100 companies in 1912, and researched what had become of them by 1995. Nearly half the companies - 49 - had ceased to exist. Five of these had gone bankrupt, 6 were nationalised, and 37 were taken over by other firms. Even among the businesses that survived, many had gone into new sectors or moved to new locations" So five had gone bankrupt in 80 years? 37 were taken over. Cadbury were 'taken over' this year ffs, but it wasnt because they'd gone bust. Quite the opposite in fact, it's because they were massively massively profitable and hence attractive to a competitor.

 

That article is one of the worst pieces of anything I've ever read. Do you actually evaluate the quality of what's being said in an article Leazes or do you just quote anything that holds itself out as supportive of your viewpoint?

 

Seriously it's utter cobblers. Even all these years later it astonishes me how you present an argument.

 

it's an extract from a book written by 2 people who have studied football and business, and the effect on business in football. You should read a bit more and educate yourself

 

It's for those who insist that football clubs that go into debt go bust, because they do not in by far the vast majority of cases.

 

I'm not "presenting an argument" by the way, I'm been saying "for all these years" that football is all about winning on the pitch [without dispute] and in the case of a club like NUFC a team that is winning on the pitch the sky is the limit.If others disagree, some of whom have only been going to games or watching NUFC for a few minutes, that is their problem.

 

I know what it says like, but it's a terrible arguing point all the same, backed up by some equally terrible illustrations.

 

Football has gone from being an unnaturally stable business (due to illegal, protectionist employment practices) to an unstable one (due to the advent of normal employment practices converging with insane amounts of money) in it's very recent history. Quite what the fuck the great depression and the second world war have to teach us about today's football finances is beyond my powers of deduction. You can 'educate' me if you want to explain though. For me it actually defeats the point that it's trying to make.

 

As to the point about winning on the pitch, well obviously I agree with that, but some of us are trying to take a more forensic approach to how that's managed. Why can't you participate in that discussion? It's more valid than dealing in cliches and rehearsing old debates. Seriously.

 

Well said sir. Will fall on deaf ears but well said anyway.

[Guest alex]

Some people seem to forget that there are people out there who know what they're doing who are also aiming for the year-on-year improvement. It's a canny bit easier said than done.

 

I agree its not easy but that doesnt mean we cant do it.

 

And tbf (not that I take a great deal of interest in other clubs), but I haven't seen much evidence of any strong pushes to really improve next year from any other teams outside the top 6.

 

Out of the pack that you think would be pushing Liverpool and Spurs, such as .....

 

Everton, Fulham, Villa, Sunderland

 

I think we have as good a, if not better, chance than any of them.

Based on little more than blind optimism at a guess though.

 

Optimism plays a part but there are other factors for me such as the areas that I thought we were weak last year are being addressed. Combine that with the style of football that Pardew seems to want to play and I think / hope we do well.

What I said before then.

[Happy Face 29]

Some people seem to forget that there are people out there who know what they're doing who are also aiming for the year-on-year improvement. It's a canny bit easier said than done.

 

I agree its not easy but that doesnt mean we cant do it.

 

And tbf (not that I take a great deal of interest in other clubs), but I haven't seen much evidence of any strong pushes to really improve next year from any other teams outside the top 6.

 

Out of the pack that you think would be pushing Liverpool and Spurs, such as .....

 

Everton, Fulham, Villa, Sunderland

 

I think we have as good a, if not better, chance than any of them.

 

Look at Villa's form after they signed Bent. They were in the relegation places in January and finished above us. Spending £24m on one player is a push.

 

We were 7th in January, having been 5th 12 games in. Selling your only quality striker isn't a push though. We went the opposite way.

[LeazesMag 0]

Some people seem to forget that there are people out there who know what they're doing who are also aiming for the year-on-year improvement. It's a canny bit easier said than done.

 

I agree its not easy but that doesnt mean we cant do it.

 

And tbf (not that I take a great deal of interest in other clubs), but I haven't seen much evidence of any strong pushes to really improve next year from any other teams outside the top 6.

 

Out of the pack that you think would be pushing Liverpool and Spurs, such as .....

 

Everton, Fulham, Villa, Sunderland

 

I think we have as good a, if not better, chance than any of them.

 

Look at Villa's form after they signed Bent. They were in the relegation places in January and finished above us. Spending £24m on one player is a push.

 

We were 7th in January, having been 5th 12 games in. Selling your only quality striker isn't a push though. We went the opposite way.

 

the vast majority of these "slow train to the top" clubs don't last more than a year or two and turn out to be blips. The REAL top clubs get there as fast as they can.

 

It's just another cliche, to be honest.

 

When the top player becomes available, you get him, then turn your attention somewhere else, Villa will be happy with Bent now for a number of years. If you can take that approach, that is the way to do it.

Edited June 22, 2011 by LeazesMag

[Christmas Tree 4679]

Some people seem to forget that there are people out there who know what they're doing who are also aiming for the year-on-year improvement. It's a canny bit easier said than done.

 

I agree its not easy but that doesnt mean we cant do it.

 

And tbf (not that I take a great deal of interest in other clubs), but I haven't seen much evidence of any strong pushes to really improve next year from any other teams outside the top 6.

 

Out of the pack that you think would be pushing Liverpool and Spurs, such as .....

 

Everton, Fulham, Villa, Sunderland

 

I think we have as good a, if not better, chance than any of them.

 

Look at Villa's form after they signed Bent. They were in the relegation places in January and finished above us. Spending £24m on one player is a push.

 

We were 7th in January, having been 5th 12 games in. Selling your only quality striker isn't a push though. We went the opposite way.

 

True, but they've just got McCleish in, they have a few walking away on frees and their best players are set to leave.

 

We are very much addressing our weaknesses.

[Christmas Tree 4679]

Twitter

 

#LFC's head of sports med. Peter Brukner > "Sylvain Marveaux didn't fail medical, #LFC refused to match #NUFC offer"

[LeazesMag 0]

Some people seem to forget that there are people out there who know what they're doing who are also aiming for the year-on-year improvement. It's a canny bit easier said than done.

 

I agree its not easy but that doesnt mean we cant do it.

 

And tbf (not that I take a great deal of interest in other clubs), but I haven't seen much evidence of any strong pushes to really improve next year from any other teams outside the top 6.

 

Out of the pack that you think would be pushing Liverpool and Spurs, such as .....

 

Everton, Fulham, Villa, Sunderland

 

I think we have as good a, if not better, chance than any of them.

 

Look at Villa's form after they signed Bent. They were in the relegation places in January and finished above us. Spending £24m on one player is a push.

 

We were 7th in January, having been 5th 12 games in. Selling your only quality striker isn't a push though. We went the opposite way.

 

True, but they've just got McCleish in, they have a few walking away on frees and their best players are set to leave.

 

We are very much addressing our weaknesses.

 

we have created our major weaknesses by selling our best players dullard

[Guest alex]

To justify Ashley's transfer policy is one thing. Hoping for Europe on the back of it is another thing altogether.

[carrolll40th 0]

Some people seem to forget that there are people out there who know what they're doing who are also aiming for the year-on-year improvement. It's a canny bit easier said than done.

 

I agree its not easy but that doesnt mean we cant do it.

 

And tbf (not that I take a great deal of interest in other clubs), but I haven't seen much evidence of any strong pushes to really improve next year from any other teams outside the top 6.

 

Out of the pack that you think would be pushing Liverpool and Spurs, such as .....

 

Everton, Fulham, Villa, Sunderland

 

I think we have as good a, if not better, chance than any of them.

 

Look at Villa's form after they signed Bent. They were in the relegation places in January and finished above us. Spending £24m on one player is a push.

 

We were 7th in January, having been 5th 12 games in. Selling your only quality striker isn't a push though. We went the opposite way.

 

True, but they've just got McCleish in, they have a few walking away on frees and their best players are set to leave.

 

We are very much addressing our weaknesses.

 

we have created our major weaknesses by selling our best players dullard

hi

[Happy Face 29]

Twitter

 

#LFC's head of sports med. Peter Brukner > "Sylvain Marveaux didn't fail medical, #LFC refused to match #NUFC offer"

 

He's ambitious then

[Guest alex]

If you class our team spirit last season as a major strength you'd have to say we're weaker on that score.

[LeazesMag 0]

Some people seem to forget that there are people out there who know what they're doing who are also aiming for the year-on-year improvement. It's a canny bit easier said than done.

 

I agree its not easy but that doesnt mean we cant do it.

 

And tbf (not that I take a great deal of interest in other clubs), but I haven't seen much evidence of any strong pushes to really improve next year from any other teams outside the top 6.

 

Out of the pack that you think would be pushing Liverpool and Spurs, such as .....

 

Everton, Fulham, Villa, Sunderland

 

I think we have as good a, if not better, chance than any of them.

 

Look at Villa's form after they signed Bent. They were in the relegation places in January and finished above us. Spending £24m on one player is a push.

 

We were 7th in January, having been 5th 12 games in. Selling your only quality striker isn't a push though. We went the opposite way.

 

True, but they've just got McCleish in, they have a few walking away on frees and their best players are set to leave.

 

We are very much addressing our weaknesses.

 

we have created our major weaknesses by selling our best players dullard

hi

 

[Christmas Tree 4679]

Twitter

 

#LFC's head of sports med. Peter Brukner > "Sylvain Marveaux didn't fail medical, #LFC refused to match #NUFC offer"

 

He's ambitious then

 

 

Knew I'd win you round

[ChezGiven 0]

Some people seem to forget that there are people out there who know what they're doing who are also aiming for the year-on-year improvement. It's a canny bit easier said than done.

 

I agree its not easy but that doesnt mean we cant do it.

 

And tbf (not that I take a great deal of interest in other clubs), but I haven't seen much evidence of any strong pushes to really improve next year from any other teams outside the top 6.

 

Out of the pack that you think would be pushing Liverpool and Spurs, such as .....

 

Everton, Fulham, Villa, Sunderland

 

I think we have as good a, if not better, chance than any of them.

 

Look at Villa's form after they signed Bent. They were in the relegation places in January and finished above us. Spending £24m on one player is a push.

 

We were 7th in January, having been 5th 12 games in. Selling your only quality striker isn't a push though. We went the opposite way.

You love bare naked facts dont you but its such a daft way of looking at the world. 'We were 5th, then sold Carroll, then finished 12th'. Are you seriously trying to establish cause and effect there? Carroll hardly played after christmas and got 2 goals in a better team. Is it because its CT and you think there is no point in actually providing reasoned analysis, simplistic mindless statements will do?

 

Our objective last season was survival, we were 1 minute away from 9th. There was no push last season for anything. The club are now saying they want top 10, if they over-perform against objectives next season, we will be pushing for Europe. Not saying its going to happen but under-estimating the quality of the playing staff is a common trait on this forum. We wouldnt get promoted, we wouldnt survive in the premiership and after the sale of Carroll we would get relegated. The reason i started that 'who was right thread' was as a reminder that the same polemic dominating discussions hasnt gone away despite it being consistently wrong since we were relegated. You might dispute your role in that but i dont care, its a bare naked fact.

[Barney 0]

To justify Ashley's transfer policy is one thing. Hoping for Europe on the back of it is another thing altogether.

 

The Europa League that nobody wants to be in?

 

Our squad would implode under the stress of having to play Raylor for 30 or so games a season. There's a reason nobody wants to qualify for it.

 

 

(not implying that you think we should be aiming for it).