Happy Face 29 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 To be fair, as I pointed out somewhere or other, he HAS sold 4 out of 7 of our best players (as sanctioned by a Toontastic poll) from last season. And as I also said when you first pointed it out, how many of those did we 'cash in' on? You weren't making that argument when I responded though. You and Gemmil have been saying we don't sell our best players and LM is daft for saying we do. We clearly have done though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Nothing wrong with selling your best players if their replacements are better. There are only 11 positions in a team, so if all your best players play in the most important positions, the only way to improve the side is to spend money on the least important positions. Makes progress more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 There are 25 places in a squad though. We've arguably improved on half of those 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9463 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 If Enrique, Carroll, Barton or Nolan hadn't wanted to go they wouldn't have gone. None of them was forced out of the door kicking and screaming for the sake of profit. But I don't see a player wanting to leave as any sort of justification though, there's a reason they want to leave, the same reason as Given wanted out. It's usually money To portray selling your best players as the sole preserve of NUFC is ludicrous. It is an inevitability of the modern game. The best you can do is protect your investment by making sure you control the exit and maximise the income. Every team does it and it is totally inevitable if there’s a market for a player, no-one is immune (See Nasri, Fabregas, Ronaldo, Alonso, Berbatov, Carrick etc etc) it’s how you replace them that’s key. You cannot stop it happening. It’s not a club policy, it’s a fact of life. And before someone mentions Modric. He still hasn’t signed his new deal, there’s a heck of a lot more examples of players leaving clubs than staying when there’s been a market for them. It’s how they, and their agents, make their real money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Ba > Carroll Cabaye > Barton Ben Arfa > Nolan Santon < Enrique Cisse we'll have to wait and see but if he is a good as we hope then you can swap him in for Ba which means Ba > Nolan Which when you look at it, explains why last year we were bottom half and this year we are top 6, which renders any reply to this utterly pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44989 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 To be fair, as I pointed out somewhere or other, he HAS sold 4 out of 7 of our best players (as sanctioned by a Toontastic poll) from last season. And as I also said when you first pointed it out, how many of those did we 'cash in' on? You weren't making that argument when I responded though. You and Gemmil have been saying we don't sell our best players and LM is daft for saying we do. We clearly have done though. Because he presents it as selling the best players and leaves it at that. It's completely disingenuous, but he needs it to make him "right". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Ba > Carroll Cabaye > Barton Ben Arfa > Nolan Santon < Enrique Cisse we'll have to wait and see but if he is a good as we hope then you can swap him in for Ba which means Ba > Nolan Which when you look at it, explains why last year we were bottom half and this year we are top 6, which renders any reply to this utterly pointless. That's not the positions we've replaced though is it? Ben Arfa* was here before we sold Carroll, the first of those 4 to go. RW - Barton > Obertan LB - Enrique > Santon CF - Ba > Carroll CF/MF - Cisse/Cabaye > Nolan *not that Ben arfa has been half as effective as Nolan either btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Which when you look at it, explains why last year we were bottom half and this year we are top 6, which renders any reply to this utterly pointless. Bolton were top 7 in March last year. I suppose that renders their relegation this season uttterly pointless. Edited March 6, 2012 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9463 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Given the performance of the back four, which above all other parts of the team is a unit, at the start of the season (prior to STaylors injury) it could be argued RTaylor > Enrique. It could be argued, I won't argue it, but it could. No comparison player to player, but as a unit ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9463 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Which when you look at it, explains why last year we were bottom half and this year we are top 6, which renders any reply to this utterly pointless. Bolton were top 7 in March last year. I suppose that renders their relegation this season uttterly pointless. So what you are saying is we're worse than Bolton, or you expect us to be ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 It's usually money To portray selling your best players as the sole preserve of NUFC is ludicrous. It is an inevitability of the modern game. The best you can do is protect your investment by making sure you control the exit and maximise the income. Every team does it and it is totally inevitable if there’s a market for a player, no-one is immune (See Nasri, Fabregas, Ronaldo, Alonso, Berbatov, Carrick etc etc) it’s how you replace them that’s key. You cannot stop it happening. It’s not a club policy, it’s a fact of life. Yep And before someone mentions Modric. He still hasn’t signed his new deal, there’s a heck of a lot more examples of players leaving clubs than staying when there’s been a market for them. It’s how they, and their agents, make their real money. That's not how LM has portrayed it at all. He's got no issues with selling anyone if it's right for the club and the manager is backed to replace them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9463 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 It's usually money To portray selling your best players as the sole preserve of NUFC is ludicrous. It is an inevitability of the modern game. The best you can do is protect your investment by making sure you control the exit and maximise the income. Every team does it and it is totally inevitable if there’s a market for a player, no-one is immune (See Nasri, Fabregas, Ronaldo, Alonso, Berbatov, Carrick etc etc) it’s how you replace them that’s key. You cannot stop it happening. It’s not a club policy, it’s a fact of life. Yep And before someone mentions Modric. He still hasn’t signed his new deal, there’s a heck of a lot more examples of players leaving clubs than staying when there’s been a market for them. It’s how they, and their agents, make their real money. That's not how LM has portrayed it at all. He's got no issues with selling anyone if it's right for the club and the manager is backed to replace them. Of course it's not how he's portrayed it, because what I've set out is the real world and he portrays anything but. He believes we'll sell anyone and everyone for the glimpse of a profit, as a nailed on club policy so the cash can be "pocketed", not that he understands what pocketing is. Your prolonged defence of him is highly amusing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Which when you look at it, explains why last year we were bottom half and this year we are top 6, which renders any reply to this utterly pointless. Bolton were top 7 in March last year. I suppose that renders their relegation this season uttterly pointless. So what you are saying is we're worse than Bolton, or you expect us to be ??? Not at all. I'm saying the league can flatter teams. There's been glimpses of what could be a good team to build on this year, but performances have been generally scrappy all season long and points VERY hard won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 To portray selling your best players as the sole preserve of NUFC is ludicrous. That's not how LM has portrayed it at all. He's got no issues with selling anyone if it's right for the club and the manager is backed to replace them. Of course it's not how he's portrayed it, Who are you talking about then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7083 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 If we booed our own players for coming 5th then perhaps we needed to have our expectations lowered. Eh Leazes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) And as I also said when you first pointed it out, how many of those did we 'cash in' on? You weren't making that argument when I responded though. You and Gemmil have been saying we don't sell our best players and LM is daft for saying we do. We clearly have done though. Because he presents it as selling the best players and leaves it at that. It's completely disingenuous, but he needs it to make him "right". many many clubs have a season where they finish 6th, 7th etc then dive like a stone after a year or two, when the manager goes, or whatever, and they do it because they are operating the same policies which we are now operating. The teams that keep their best players and back their managers and show the intent to move further, are the ones that do it, or are giving themselves a chance of doing it. It isn't a matter of being "right", this is a fact of footballing life. This and the last post is what I have been effectively saying for years, while you and a few other dumb cunts say its rubbish, which is just about all you say. Tell me what in the post I made earlier ie number 1373, explaining what I have been saying for years, is rubbish and then tell us where it is incorrect, rather than avoid a reply. This is the last time I'm explaining to YOU. In future when you say what I say is rubbish, I will point you to that post and ask you to show us what is wrong about what I say. If you are unable to look at the bigger picture and the setup of the club, and are fooled by a good run, then it is your problem, but you will not prove me wrong because I see the bigger picture, while you and others can not. You utter imbecile. Edited March 6, 2012 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 It's usually money To portray selling your best players as the sole preserve of NUFC is ludicrous. It is an inevitability of the modern game. The best you can do is protect your investment by making sure you control the exit and maximise the income. Every team does it and it is totally inevitable if there’s a market for a player, no-one is immune (See Nasri, Fabregas, Ronaldo, Alonso, Berbatov, Carrick etc etc) it’s how you replace them that’s key. You cannot stop it happening. It’s not a club policy, it’s a fact of life. Yep And before someone mentions Modric. He still hasn’t signed his new deal, there’s a heck of a lot more examples of players leaving clubs than staying when there’s been a market for them. It’s how they, and their agents, make their real money. That's not how LM has portrayed it at all. He's got no issues with selling anyone if it's right for the club and the manager is backed to replace them. Of course it's not how he's portrayed it, because what I've set out is the real world and he portrays anything but. He believes we'll sell anyone and everyone for the glimpse of a profit, as a nailed on club policy so the cash can be "pocketed", not that he understands what pocketing is. Your prolonged defence of him is highly amusing though. I understand what "pocketing" is, but you have no clue at all about football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44989 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Good. That's me, jaysouthernmag and ewerk who have completed their education at your feet this week. Here's hoping that more of us can graduate and maybe we'll reach a point where we never again have to attend another of your mind numbing lectures. Edited March 6, 2012 by Gemmill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Which when you look at it, explains why last year we were bottom half and this year we are top 6, which renders any reply to this utterly pointless. Bolton were top 7 in March last year. I suppose that renders their relegation this season uttterly pointless. So what you are saying is we're worse than Bolton, or you expect us to be ??? The fact of a team coming back down the table who've been near the top places should be taken as a given in any sport. It's not evidence of anything for me apart from that you have to constantly strive for better. Again that's an absolute given amongst the top clubs. Man U want to win as much now as they did when they won their first Prem title. That's a big part of what we need in the culture of the club. Bolton is absolutely heartening simply for the fact that a team can get up to near the top without spending twatish sums-that's what we have to take heart from, not that you can come back down again afterwards, that should be taken as a given; if we need an example to tell us that we might as well pack up and go home now, it should be there anyway in the form of a constant and intrinsic 'fear' that pushes you on to better. We've definitely not had that during vast tracts of our recent history. I think we're gradually bringing in players that are showing the right mix of skill and diligence to respond well to what in my book is clearly a club (employer) that is demanding more from them than in the past. That's absolutely entirely as it should be and the rewards given for this recently (improved terms for Krul/parity for Colo) are exactly what I'd hoped to see as it will have reinforced that ethic amongst existing players and shown further evidence of what is expected to prospective targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 How many times have you exclaimed that "this is the last time that I educate you" etc? You can't help yourself. It's just a forum frequented by a bunch of people you'll never meet. Who cares what they have to say, really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Nothing wrong with selling your best players if their replacements are better. There are only 11 positions in a team, so if all your best players play in the most important positions, the only way to improve the side is to spend money on the least important positions. Makes progress more difficult. better to build on your best players and sell your worst players though ? One or two people won't actually get this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Ba > Carroll Cabaye > Barton Ben Arfa > Nolan Santon < Enrique Cisse we'll have to wait and see but if he is a good as we hope then you can swap him in for Ba which means Ba > Nolan Which when you look at it, explains why last year we were bottom half and this year we are top 6, which renders any reply to this utterly pointless. That's not the positions we've replaced though is it? Ben Arfa* was here before we sold Carroll, the first of those 4 to go. RW - Barton > Obertan LB - Enrique > Santon CF - Ba > Carroll CF/MF - Cisse/Cabaye > Nolan *not that Ben arfa has been half as effective as Nolan either btw. Which team have you been watching? Fuck me, if you hadnt noticed the fulcrum of our attack and style of play has changed this year, last year Barton was delivering balls into the box for Carroll, this season Cabaye is the creative fulcrum and has supplied a few goals for Ba. Ba is also, if you hadnt noticed, a bit of a no.10 and likes to drop deep to pick up the ball, quite similar to Nolan's role when he was playing off the striker last year. Ben Arfa can also play that no. 10 role and has done ok with 4 goals this season. If Ben Arfa score 2 more goals, he'll be a long way down the road to replacing the only thing that Nolan offered. Him being on the books but not in the first team picture is a hugely relevant factor in the decision to sell Nolan. The fact that you come at this from Obertan is Barton's replacement just shows how little you have grasped. Comparing us to Bolton is then just clutching at straws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Which when you look at it, explains why last year we were bottom half and this year we are top 6, which renders any reply to this utterly pointless. Bolton were top 7 in March last year. I suppose that renders their relegation this season uttterly pointless. I think you have just won 'the most pointless post of the year award'. What that adds to the discussion it literally nothing, its a pointless post with no relevance. Unless you want to argue that spending 10m on Cisse is the equivalent of selling your best striker and tying up two of your best players is like not offering new contracts to one of yoiur top players, or that being heavily in debt and needing to sell players is just like getting revenue ahead of costs for the first time in 5 years. Thats what you would need to be doing to actually support that post. Which if you are, makes you pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Ba > Carroll Cabaye > Barton Ben Arfa > Nolan Santon < Enrique Cisse we'll have to wait and see but if he is a good as we hope then you can swap him in for Ba which means Ba > Nolan Which when you look at it, explains why last year we were bottom half and this year we are top 6, which renders any reply to this utterly pointless. That's not the positions we've replaced though is it? Ben Arfa* was here before we sold Carroll, the first of those 4 to go. RW - Barton > Obertan LB - Enrique > Santon CF - Ba > Carroll CF/MF - Cisse/Cabaye > Nolan *not that Ben arfa has been half as effective as Nolan either btw. Which team have you been watching? Fuck me, if you hadnt noticed the fulcrum of our attack and style of play has changed this year, last year Barton was delivering balls into the box for Carroll, this season Cabaye is the creative fulcrum and has supplied a few goals for Ba. Ba is also, if you hadnt noticed, a bit of a no.10 and likes to drop deep to pick up the ball, quite similar to Nolan's role when he was playing off the striker last year. Ben Arfa can also play that no. 10 role and has done ok with 4 goals this season. If Ben Arfa score 2 more goals, he'll be a long way down the road to replacing the only thing that Nolan offered. Him being on the books but not in the first team picture is a hugely relevant factor in the decision to sell Nolan. The fact that you come at this from Obertan is Barton's replacement just shows how little you have grasped. Comparing us to Bolton is then just clutching at straws. comparing us to Bolton, Everton and others who make a fleeting visit to the top 6 or 7 positions or so, is actually spot on because we are now operating like those very clubs did and still do. That is precisely why what happened to them will happen to us. Enjoy it while it lasts ? Sure, but NUFC are bigger than this. Already a place in europe could be in the bag if they had bought more quality with that money that has gone missing. If you can't see the signs that point to the mentality inside the club, then it's really your problem, especially when it is pointed out to you and you choose to ignore it for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Which when you look at it, explains why last year we were bottom half and this year we are top 6, which renders any reply to this utterly pointless. Bolton were top 7 in March last year. I suppose that renders their relegation this season uttterly pointless. I think you have just won 'the most pointless post of the year award'. What that adds to the discussion it literally nothing, its a pointless post with no relevance. Unless you want to argue that spending 10m on Cisse is the equivalent of selling your best striker and tying up two of your best players is like not offering new contracts to one of yoiur top players, or that being heavily in debt and needing to sell players is just like getting revenue ahead of costs for the first time in 5 years. Thats what you would need to be doing to actually support that post. Which if you are, makes you pointless. its exactly the same as one of the Ashley apologists saying that if Bolton can get 7th while selling their best players then we can do the same man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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