Working class comedy.

[Happy Face 29]

As I said earlier, class isn't an issue in British comedy. To The manor Born and Steptoe are 2 of the most loved shows in this country with the ratings to go with it.

It is funny to look at US comedy though, where it is completely taboo to base a show on someone poor. Even people who are poor.... aren't.....

 

Joey on friends should have nothing, but he lives off his wealthy mates in a loft apartment most wealthy people couldn't afford....

 

The Fresh Prince moves to a Mansion house to practice his brand of witty street smarts ....

 

Kramer doesn't do anything for a living but lives in the same appartments as Jerry Seinfeld....who's character is a TV regular with his own show.

 

The Cosby's....minted....The Jeffersons...minted....Frasier.....minted.....Everybody Loves Raymond....minted.....Malcolm in the middle.....well off.....

 

I think Roseanne was the poorest housewife ever to appear on US TV and she had her own loose meat sandwich business venture and won the lottery to become a multi-millionaire.

 

Everybody Hates Chris is the only show I can think of that embraces the fact the characters are poor.

 

...and they say America has no class system.

 

As much as i love US TV, I much prefer it our way.

 

Apart from the fact that TtMB was complete horseplop, it was a comedy which was actually about class man! So was Steptoe and Son. I think you've completely shot yourself in the foot using these examples.

 

Also, Seinfeld didn't have his own show for the vast amount of the series, and Kramer was an unexplained enigma per se, so you haven't got a point there either. And off the top of my head, what about 'My name is Earl'? Otherwise I'm not surprised that most US characters are in line with the American dream, that's just them, isn't it?

 

I think you've missed my point....which is Brits will watch a show about class...whatever their own class and whatever the class of those in the show.

 

Americans won't watch poor people, whether they themselves are poor or not.

 

Edit: My Name is Earl is a good shout to go with Everybody hates Chris. They don't become all time great shows like the 2 British examples I gave...whether you like them or not.

 

But there are several exceptions that show you're not right about the latter point. Leazes mentioned Married with Children which is another example of a poor family. Also the Simpsons are always brassic.

 

Your examples show that the British are less comfortable about class than Americans imo. We can laugh more easily precisley because class is entrenched in our society (or was) to a much greater degree than it is in America. If that's what you're saying, then I agree.

 

Al Bundy was a shoe salesman with a bigger house than anyone I know.

 

There's an episode of the Simpsons where Grimes (Grimey) dies following a rant at Homer because (while portrayed as brassic) he is clearly very well off in his 3 bedroom house, 2 cars, eating lobster, travelling to Australia, Japan, London etc. and going into space.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Happy Face

[Meenzer 15446]

Even forgotten/minor US comedies like Grace Under Fire fall into the same trap. Divorced single mother, recovering alcoholic, two kids, works as a mechanic - massive house in the burbs. Ho hum.

[Renton 21402]

As I said earlier, class isn't an issue in British comedy. To The manor Born and Steptoe are 2 of the most loved shows in this country with the ratings to go with it.

It is funny to look at US comedy though, where it is completely taboo to base a show on someone poor. Even people who are poor.... aren't.....

 

Joey on friends should have nothing, but he lives off his wealthy mates in a loft apartment most wealthy people couldn't afford....

 

The Fresh Prince moves to a Mansion house to practice his brand of witty street smarts ....

 

Kramer doesn't do anything for a living but lives in the same appartments as Jerry Seinfeld....who's character is a TV regular with his own show.

 

The Cosby's....minted....The Jeffersons...minted....Frasier.....minted.....Everybody Loves Raymond....minted.....Malcolm in the middle.....well off.....

 

I think Roseanne was the poorest housewife ever to appear on US TV and she had her own loose meat sandwich business venture and won the lottery to become a multi-millionaire.

 

Everybody Hates Chris is the only show I can think of that embraces the fact the characters are poor.

 

...and they say America has no class system.

 

As much as i love US TV, I much prefer it our way.

 

Apart from the fact that TtMB was complete horseplop, it was a comedy which was actually about class man! So was Steptoe and Son. I think you've completely shot yourself in the foot using these examples.

 

Also, Seinfeld didn't have his own show for the vast amount of the series, and Kramer was an unexplained enigma per se, so you haven't got a point there either. And off the top of my head, what about 'My name is Earl'? Otherwise I'm not surprised that most US characters are in line with the American dream, that's just them, isn't it?

 

I think you've missed my point....which is Brits will watch a show about class...whatever their own class and whatever the class of those in the show.

 

Americans won't watch poor people, whether they themselves are poor or not.

 

Edit: My Name is Earl is a good shout to go with Everybody hates Chris. They don't become all time great shows like the 2 British examples I gave...whether you like them or not.

 

But there are several exceptions that show you're not right about the latter point. Leazes mentioned Married with Children which is another example of a poor family. Also the Simpsons are always brassic.

 

Your examples show that the British are less comfortable about class than Americans imo. We can laugh more easily precisley because class is entrenched in our society (or was) to a much greater degree than it is in America. If that's what you're saying, then I agree.

 

Al Bundy was a shoe salesman with a bigger house than anyone I know.

 

There's an episode of the Simpsons where Grimes (Grimey) dies following a rant at Homer because (while portrayed as brassic) he is clearly very well off in his 3 bedroom house, 2 cars, eating lobster, travelling to Australia, Japan, London etc. and going into space.

 

 

My general point stands, many episodes of the Simpsons and MWC centred around them always being skint, desperate even, in a way that doesn't reflect my, or I suspect your, life. Anyway not having money is not directly related to class - the Americans don't have the same concept of class as we do so it's not surprising they don't reflect it in their comedies, is it?

 

Plus Americans have a higher standard of living than us in general, that's a fact. Two cars and eating lobster is the norm for a lower middle class American. Flying into space isn't mind.

[manc-mag 1]

As I said earlier, class isn't an issue in British comedy. To The manor Born and Steptoe are 2 of the most loved shows in this country with the ratings to go with it.

It is funny to look at US comedy though, where it is completely taboo to base a show on someone poor. Even people who are poor.... aren't.....

 

Joey on friends should have nothing, but he lives off his wealthy mates in a loft apartment most wealthy people couldn't afford....

 

The Fresh Prince moves to a Mansion house to practice his brand of witty street smarts ....

 

Kramer doesn't do anything for a living but lives in the same appartments as Jerry Seinfeld....who's character is a TV regular with his own show.

 

The Cosby's....minted....The Jeffersons...minted....Frasier.....minted.....Everybody Loves Raymond....minted.....Malcolm in the middle.....well off.....

 

I think Roseanne was the poorest housewife ever to appear on US TV and she had her own loose meat sandwich business venture and won the lottery to become a multi-millionaire.

 

Everybody Hates Chris is the only show I can think of that embraces the fact the characters are poor.

 

...and they say America has no class system.

 

As much as i love US TV, I much prefer it our way.

 

Apart from the fact that TtMB was complete horseplop, it was a comedy which was actually about class man! So was Steptoe and Son. I think you've completely shot yourself in the foot using these examples.

 

Also, Seinfeld didn't have his own show for the vast amount of the series, and Kramer was an unexplained enigma per se, so you haven't got a point there either. And off the top of my head, what about 'My name is Earl'? Otherwise I'm not surprised that most US characters are in line with the American dream, that's just them, isn't it?

 

I think you've missed my point....which is Brits will watch a show about class...whatever their own class and whatever the class of those in the show.

 

Americans won't watch poor people, whether they themselves are poor or not.

 

Edit: My Name is Earl is a good shout to go with Everybody hates Chris. They don't become all time great shows like the 2 British examples I gave...whether you like them or not.

 

But there are several exceptions that show you're not right about the latter point. Leazes mentioned Married with Children which is another example of a poor family. Also the Simpsons are always brassic.

 

Your examples show that the British are less comfortable about class than Americans imo. We can laugh more easily precisley because class is entrenched in our society (or was) to a much greater degree than it is in America. If that's what you're saying, then I agree.

 

Al Bundy was a shoe salesman with a bigger house than anyone I know.

 

There's an episode of the Simpsons where Grimes (Grimey) dies following a rant at Homer because (while portrayed as brassic) he is clearly very well off in his 3 bedroom house, 2 cars, eating lobster, travelling to Australia, Japan, London etc. and going into space.

 

 

My general point stands, many episodes of the Simpsons and MWC centred around them always being skint, desperate even, in a way that doesn't reflect my, or I suspect your, life. Anyway not having money is not directly related to class - the Americans don't have the same concept of class as we do so it's not surprising they don't reflect it in their comedies, is it?

 

Plus Americans have a higher standard of living than us in general, that's a fact. Two cars and eating lobster is the norm for a lower middle class American. Flying into space isn't mind.

 

Aye it's true. In 'Boyz n' the Hood', they all lived in detached houses and had ample outdoor space for barbecues.

[Happy Face 29]

 

Aye, lying about class doesn't mean it's not there.

 

Most shows that do exist about "poor" people in the US are negative portrayals of down and outs too. I think you're supposed to laugh at Earl and his idiot brother, and slutty stripper friends rather than laugh with them.

 

Bundy is deeply unhappy about his position and prospects. You're laughing at his misery and pitying that he has no ambition to pull himself out of it.

 

Homer is TV's most famous dunce.

 

Joey's an idiot.

 

 

 

Harold Steptoe was well read and loved the fine arts, he aspired to improve himself.

 

Delboy works harder than anyone on TV to try and make it.

 

Blackadder is always smarter than his masters....and more idiotic than his staff in series 1.

 

Fletcher always gets one over on the warders in porridge.

 

 

 

Surely if American TV wanted to sell the American dream, they've got it the wrong way around.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Happy Face

[Park Life 71]

 

Aye, lying about class doesn't mean it's not there.

 

Most shows that do exist about "poor" people in the US are negative portrayals of down and outs too. I think you're supposed to laugh at Earl and his idiot brother, and slutty stripper friends rather than laugh with them.

 

Bundy is deeply unhappy about his position and prospects. You're laughing at his misery and pitying that he has no ambition to pull himself out of it.

 

Homer is TV's most famous dunce.

 

Joey's an idiot.

 

 

 

Harold Steptoe was well read and loved the fine arts, he aspired to improve himself.

 

Delboy works harder than anyone on TV to try and make it.

 

Blackadder is always smarter than his masters....and more idiotic than his staff in series 1.

 

Fletcher always gets one over on the warders in porridge.

 

 

 

Surely if American TV wanted to sell the American dream, they've got it the wrong way around.

 

Good stuff Nicos.

[Renton 21402]

 

Aye, lying about class doesn't mean it's not there.

 

Most shows that do exist about "poor" people in the US are negative portrayals of down and outs too. I think you're supposed to laugh at Earl and his idiot brother, and slutty stripper friends rather than laugh with them.

 

Bundy is deeply unhappy about his position and prospects. You're laughing at his misery and pitying that he has no ambition to pull himself out of it.

 

Homer is TV's most famous dunce.

 

Joey's an idiot.

 

 

 

Harold Steptoe was well read and loved the fine arts, he aspired to improve himself.

 

Delboy works harder than anyone on TV to try and make it.

 

Blackadder is always smarter than his masters....and more idiotic than his staff in series 1.

 

Fletcher always gets one over on the warders in porridge.

 

 

 

Surely if American TV wanted to sell the American dream, they've got it the wrong way around.

 

I don't agree any of those American characters are portrayed negatively, there is a certain amount of affection for all of them.

 

I could just as well call Harold a pompous fool who denies his class, Dell boy as a small time conman who is a loser, Blackadder as a snide twat (2-4) or mental retard (1), and Fletcher as a lovable rogue - but still a rogue.

 

You're making a point that isn't there. But perhaps so am I.

[Happy Face 29]

 

Aye, lying about class doesn't mean it's not there.

 

Most shows that do exist about "poor" people in the US are negative portrayals of down and outs too. I think you're supposed to laugh at Earl and his idiot brother, and slutty stripper friends rather than laugh with them.

 

Bundy is deeply unhappy about his position and prospects. You're laughing at his misery and pitying that he has no ambition to pull himself out of it.

 

Homer is TV's most famous dunce.

 

Joey's an idiot.

 

 

 

Harold Steptoe was well read and loved the fine arts, he aspired to improve himself.

 

Delboy works harder than anyone on TV to try and make it.

 

Blackadder is always smarter than his masters....and more idiotic than his staff in series 1.

 

Fletcher always gets one over on the warders in porridge.

 

 

 

Surely if American TV wanted to sell the American dream, they've got it the wrong way around.

 

I don't agree any of those American characters are portrayed negatively, there is a certain amount of affection for all of them.

 

I could just as well call Harold a pompous fool who denies his class, Dell boy as a small time conman who is a loser, Blackadder as a snide twat (2-4) or mental retard (1), and Fletcher as a lovable rogue - but still a rogue.

 

You're making a point that isn't there. But perhaps so am I.

 

OK, not negative portrayals, we love those characters despite their stupidity.

 

The British poor are generally intelligent though. Smarter than their superiors. Despite any other character flaws.

 

The US couldn't fathom that, they'd wonder why they were poor if they're that smart and hard working.

 

You can be rich and smart

You can be rich and stupid

You can be poor and stupid

You can't be poor and smart....it defies their logic of reaping the reward you deserve.

[Happy Face 29]

Mind, a lot of it is down to whether they're single or married too.

 

No TV husband can be smarter than his wife on either side of the channel. Men must be the bumbling idiot in that scenario.

 

Delboy and Rodney both got noticeibly more idiotic once Cassandra and the other one moved in.

[Park Life 71]

 

Aye, lying about class doesn't mean it's not there.

 

Most shows that do exist about "poor" people in the US are negative portrayals of down and outs too. I think you're supposed to laugh at Earl and his idiot brother, and slutty stripper friends rather than laugh with them.

 

Bundy is deeply unhappy about his position and prospects. You're laughing at his misery and pitying that he has no ambition to pull himself out of it.

 

Homer is TV's most famous dunce.

 

Joey's an idiot.

 

 

 

Harold Steptoe was well read and loved the fine arts, he aspired to improve himself.

 

Delboy works harder than anyone on TV to try and make it.

 

Blackadder is always smarter than his masters....and more idiotic than his staff in series 1.

 

Fletcher always gets one over on the warders in porridge.

 

 

 

Surely if American TV wanted to sell the American dream, they've got it the wrong way around.

 

I don't agree any of those American characters are portrayed negatively, there is a certain amount of affection for all of them.

 

I could just as well call Harold a pompous fool who denies his class, Dell boy as a small time conman who is a loser, Blackadder as a snide twat (2-4) or mental retard (1), and Fletcher as a lovable rogue - but still a rogue.

 

You're making a point that isn't there. But perhaps so am I.

 

OK, not negative portrayals, we love those characters despite their stupidity.

 

The British poor are generally intelligent though. Smarter than their superiors. Despite any other character flaws.

 

The US couldn't fathom that, they'd wonder why they were poor if they're that smart and hard working.

 

You can be rich and smart

You can be rich and stupid

You can be poor and stupid

You can't be poor and smart....it defies their logic of reaping the reward you deserve.

 

It's a confliting paradigm to the perpetuated myths over there I guess.

[Park Life 71]

Mind, a lot of it is down to whether they're single or married too.

 

No TV husband can be smarter than his wife on either side of the channel. Men must be the bumbling idiot in that scenario.

 

Delboy and Rodney both got noticeibly more idiotic once Cassandra and the other one moved in.

 

What's that all about?

[The Fish 10792]

Aye, it's been discussed before (perhaps not on here) but the likes of Joey, broke living in a loft apartment in one of the most expensive cities on Earth. Also with Frasier it's ridiculous how both the brothers are successful professionals who went to Ivy League colleges etc. but their Dad was a cop. Aye, righto.

Wasn't their mum a well educated Psychologist in her own right?

[Happy Face 29]

Mind, a lot of it is down to whether they're single or married too.

 

No TV husband can be smarter than his wife on either side of the channel. Men must be the bumbling idiot in that scenario.

 

Delboy and Rodney both got noticeibly more idiotic once Cassandra and the other one moved in.

 

What's that all about?

 

 

I meant the Atlantic

 

It's a well worn comedy cliche that's been discussed before.

 

Married men are idiots. Wives are long suffering angels.

 

The intelligent paupers I listed above were allowed to be smart by virtue of the fact they were single.

 

Terry off of Terry and June, Basil Fawlty, Victor Meldrew, Frank Spencer, the dentist in My Family, Raymond Fowler on The Thin Blue Line, Gordon Brittas.....all complete gimps....but they weren't poor, so that's ok.

 

It's the same on adverts featuring couples too. That Asda one being a most egregious example.

 

EDIT: Just realised you were probably aware of the cliche, but were wondering aloud why it is so. At the risk of coming across like Andy Gray, I think it's cos women do all the shopping in households so TV can never risk alienating a woman or they might abandon your brand.

Edited January 28, 2011 by Happy Face

[Renton 21402]

Mind, a lot of it is down to whether they're single or married too.

 

No TV husband can be smarter than his wife on either side of the channel. Men must be the bumbling idiot in that scenario.

 

Delboy and Rodney both got noticeibly more idiotic once Cassandra and the other one moved in.

 

What's that all about?

 

 

I meant the Atlantic

 

It's a well worn comedy cliche that's been discussed before.

 

Married men are idiots. Wives are long suffering angels.

 

The intelligent paupers I listed above were allowed to be smart by virtue of the fact they were single.

 

Terry off of Terry and June, Basil Fawlty, Victor Meldrew, Frank Spencer, the dentist in My Family, Raymond Fowler on The Thin Blue Line, Gordon Brittas.....all complete gimps....but they weren't poor, so that's ok.

 

It's the same on adverts featuring couples too. That Asda one being a most egregious example.

 

Really think you're over analysing things here HF.

[Happy Face 29]

Mind, a lot of it is down to whether they're single or married too.

 

No TV husband can be smarter than his wife on either side of the channel. Men must be the bumbling idiot in that scenario.

 

Delboy and Rodney both got noticeibly more idiotic once Cassandra and the other one moved in.

 

What's that all about?

 

 

I meant the Atlantic

 

It's a well worn comedy cliche that's been discussed before.

 

Married men are idiots. Wives are long suffering angels.

 

The intelligent paupers I listed above were allowed to be smart by virtue of the fact they were single.

 

Terry off of Terry and June, Basil Fawlty, Victor Meldrew, Frank Spencer, the dentist in My Family, Raymond Fowler on The Thin Blue Line, Gordon Brittas.....all complete gimps....but they weren't poor, so that's ok.

 

It's the same on adverts featuring couples too. That Asda one being a most egregious example.

 

Really think you're over analysing things here HF.

 

 

Trash deserves contemplation as much as anything else

[Tom 14011]

Some class Life On Mars References in Not Going Out tonight.

[Idioteque 0]

watched a bit of that, was a steaming pile of turd

Edited February 10, 2011 by Idioteque