Guest alex Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Unless you're on the breadline, this will have very little impact on you. But for some poor twat trying to raise a family where incomings = outgoings, it's pretty disastrous. Which is precisely why it's a bit of a cunt's trick for the poor. Aye. And while I accept it's not advantageous to the country to bash the bankers etc. as much as they deserve, given the banks would just go elsewhere, it seems their role in all this has been brushed under the carpet and it's the poorest who are paying the price (in proportion to their income that is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentAxeman 166 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 It's well known that indirect taxation affects the poor dispropotionately which is obviously why Tories like it so much - they can use spurious shit like "well maybe you shouldbn't be buying a plasma TV if you're that poor" which disregards both the direct increase in expenditure on things I mentioned as well as the passed on price rises due to increased costs. Dont forget the PS3 or X-Box! Seriously tho, its a shitter but its needed. I for one am grudgingly accepting it as a necessary evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 It was a choice tbf as there are other options, like an income tax increase, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4267 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 It was a choice tbf as there are other options, like an income tax increase, for example. There was an article in The Guardian (where else) a few months ago which suggested a one off tax of I think 20% of all wealth on anyone who has more than a million (non-property I think) which would raise something like £120bn. No chance of course but a decent suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentAxeman 166 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 It was a choice tbf as there are other options, like an income tax increase, for example. which would be seen as an attack on 'breadwinners' who are struggling financially. no win situation basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 It was a choice tbf as there are other options, like an income tax increase, for example. which would be seen as an attack on 'breadwinners' who are struggling financially. no win situation basically. Not if it was only applied to higher earners. You could argue that wouldn't be fair. The point I'm making is though that this decision is a choice which was, imo, based on an ideology. Shame on the Lib-Dems for supporting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 "an attack" - why is everything AN ATTACK on someone ........... anyway they were saying on the Beeb yesterday that if you look at income the VAT rise hits poorer people slightly more than rich people but if you look at actual expenditure it's the other way round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentAxeman 166 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 It was a choice tbf as there are other options, like an income tax increase, for example. There was an article in The Guardian (where else) a few months ago which suggested a one off tax of I think 20% of all wealth on anyone who has more than a million (non-property I think) which would raise something like £120bn. No chance of course but a decent suggestion. good idea that. would never happen under any gov tho as it would be way too unpopular amongst those who finance the parties. it would need a military coup for this idea to ever see the light of day. *strokes chin thoughtfully* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 29547 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 "an attack" - why is everything AN ATTACK on someone ........... anyway they were saying on the Beeb yesterday that if you look at income the VAT rise hits poorer people slightly more than rich people but if you look at actual expenditure it's the other way round So are you saying that people who spend more will be taxed more? Thank god we have you here to provide us with these nuggets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4460 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I'll await the obligatory bullets, but I honestly see very little evidence of really poor people. Thanks to things like tax credits, people are a lot better off than in previous decades. For those of you on good incomes, who live in nice areas and drink in trendy bars, it's probably understandable as you don't come into contact with low income people. I do and there is hardly any moaning, people are realistic about the countries fortunes and they are just getting on with it. The sector that is hard up however are pensioners but that needs long term looking at, not band aids. It also opens another can of worms. Eg how many of you want to look after me in a few years time if I hadn't bothered with a pension and pissed the money up and thought, fuck it, someone else will pay. That is the nightmare scenario facing you 20 somethings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 "an attack" - why is everything AN ATTACK on someone ........... anyway they were saying on the Beeb yesterday that if you look at income the VAT rise hits poorer people slightly more than rich people but if you look at actual expenditure it's the other way round Are you saying that didn't occur to you before you heard that btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentAxeman 166 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 So are you saying that people who spend more will be taxed more? Thank god we have you here to provide us with these nuggets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15160 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Eg how many of you want to look after me in a few years time if I hadn't bothered with a pension and pissed the money up and thought, fuck it, someone else will pay. That is the nightmare scenario facing you 20 somethings. There'll be no such thing as a state pension by the time you reach that age anyway, never mind by the time those kerrazy 20somethings get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7060 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I'll await the obligatory bullets, but I honestly see very little evidence of really poor people. Thanks to things like tax credits, people are a lot better off than in previous decades. For those of you on good incomes, who live in nice areas and drink in trendy bars, it's probably understandable as you don't come into contact with low income people. I do and there is hardly any moaning, people are realistic about the countries fortunes and they are just getting on with it. The sector that is hard up however are pensioners but that needs long term looking at, not band aids. It also opens another can of worms. Eg how many of you want to look after me in a few years time if I hadn't bothered with a pension and pissed the money up and thought, fuck it, someone else will pay. That is the nightmare scenario facing you 20 somethings. A salient point CT, this country is going to be seriously in the shit when the baby boomers reach proper old age. The way we currently treat our elderly is a fucking disgrace, imagine how much worse it may get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I'll await the obligatory bullets, but I honestly see very little evidence of really poor people. Thanks to things like tax credits, people are a lot better off than in previous decades. For those of you on good incomes, who live in nice areas and drink in trendy bars, it's probably understandable as you don't come into contact with low income people. I do and there is hardly any moaning, people are realistic about the countries fortunes and they are just getting on with it. The sector that is hard up however are pensioners but that needs long term looking at, not band aids. It also opens another can of worms. Eg how many of you want to look after me in a few years time if I hadn't bothered with a pension and pissed the money up and thought, fuck it, someone else will pay. That is the nightmare scenario facing you 20 somethings. I agree with some of that. However, poverty is (and always has been) relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4267 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I'll await the obligatory bullets, but I honestly see very little evidence of really poor people. Thanks to things like tax credits, people are a lot better off than in previous decades. I think if people have to sit down and plan at a minute level what they are going to spend their money on and that spend only covers essentials with maybe a few very rare luxuries then I'd class that as being poor (in relative terms) and I think that covers millions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac-Toon 1 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I'll await the obligatory bullets, but I honestly see very little evidence of really poor people. Thanks to things like tax credits, people are a lot better off than in previous decades. For those of you on good incomes, who live in nice areas and drink in trendy bars, it's probably understandable as you don't come into contact with low income people. I do and there is hardly any moaning, people are realistic about the countries fortunes and they are just getting on with it. The sector that is hard up however are pensioners but that needs long term looking at, not band aids. It also opens another can of worms. Eg how many of you want to look after me in a few years time if I hadn't bothered with a pension and pissed the money up and thought, fuck it, someone else will pay. That is the nightmare scenario facing you 20 somethings. I earn about £1400 a month after tax. Pay out of that £600 on mortgage. £400 per month on food shopping. £130 Gas/Electricity. Leaving me with about £300 disposable for the month. However, it's not disposable as out of that I'll pay £20 per week on bairns dinners for school. Leaving me with about £220 for the month. That's £55 per week. About £7.90 per day. Can buy a box of tabs and that's it. I'd say I earn an alright wedge but am still relitively poor when it comes to actual Wants as apose to needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden McGroin 6296 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I'll await the obligatory bullets, but I honestly see very little evidence of really poor people. Thanks to things like tax credits, people are a lot better off than in previous decades. For those of you on good incomes, who live in nice areas and drink in trendy bars, it's probably understandable as you don't come into contact with low income people. I do and there is hardly any moaning, people are realistic about the countries fortunes and they are just getting on with it. The sector that is hard up however are pensioners but that needs long term looking at, not band aids. It also opens another can of worms. Eg how many of you want to look after me in a few years time if I hadn't bothered with a pension and pissed the money up and thought, fuck it, someone else will pay. That is the nightmare scenario facing you 20 somethings. I earn about £1400 a month after tax. Pay out of that £600 on mortgage. £400 per month on food shopping. £130 Gas/Electricity. Leaving me with about £300 disposable for the month. However, it's not disposable as out of that I'll pay £20 per week on bairns dinners for school. Leaving me with about £220 for the month. That's £55 per week. About £7.90 per day. Can buy a box of tabs and that's it. I'd say I earn an alright wedge but am still relitively poor when it comes to actual Wants as apose to needs. Do you not have a missus that splits some of the bills/mortgage. You have forgot council tax by the way ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I'll await the obligatory bullets, but I honestly see very little evidence of really poor people. Thanks to things like tax credits, people are a lot better off than in previous decades. I think if people have to sit down and plan at a minute level what they are going to spend their money on and that spend only covers essentials with maybe a few very rare luxuries then I'd class that as being poor (in relative terms) and I think that covers millions. It's frightening how the idea of 'budgeting' is an alien concept like. At the same time it's even more frightening how, despite all the sound bites to the contrary, government probably need it to remain that way given how everything revolves around the financial sector these days. And credit and debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 41363 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 The reason you see little evidence of it CT is because the poor can't afford taxis. My mrs. works in the low income housing sector in your neck of the woods. The people she deals with are piss poor. This will hit them hard. Thanks to Dave, the social housing support departments , which are there to stop these people being tossed onto the street when they get behind in their bills etc, are being obliterated. If that's a bullet, consider yourself shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7060 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I'll await the obligatory bullets, but I honestly see very little evidence of really poor people. Thanks to things like tax credits, people are a lot better off than in previous decades. I think if people have to sit down and plan at a minute level what they are going to spend their money on and that spend only covers essentials with maybe a few very rare luxuries then I'd class that as being poor (in relative terms) and I think that covers millions. It's frightening how the idea of 'budgeting' is an alien concept like. At the same time it's even more frightening how, despite all the sound bites to the contrary, government probably need it to remain that way given how everything revolves around the financial sector these days. And credit and debt. The problem with a welfare state is people come to rely on it, or worse feel entitled to it, and therefore don't think about looking after themselves perhaps as much they ought. To put it another way, it's all ass backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac-Toon 1 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I'll await the obligatory bullets, but I honestly see very little evidence of really poor people. Thanks to things like tax credits, people are a lot better off than in previous decades. For those of you on good incomes, who live in nice areas and drink in trendy bars, it's probably understandable as you don't come into contact with low income people. I do and there is hardly any moaning, people are realistic about the countries fortunes and they are just getting on with it. The sector that is hard up however are pensioners but that needs long term looking at, not band aids. It also opens another can of worms. Eg how many of you want to look after me in a few years time if I hadn't bothered with a pension and pissed the money up and thought, fuck it, someone else will pay. That is the nightmare scenario facing you 20 somethings. I earn about £1400 a month after tax. Pay out of that £600 on mortgage. £400 per month on food shopping. £130 Gas/Electricity. Leaving me with about £300 disposable for the month. However, it's not disposable as out of that I'll pay £20 per week on bairns dinners for school. Leaving me with about £220 for the month. That's £55 per week. About £7.90 per day. Can buy a box of tabs and that's it. I'd say I earn an alright wedge but am still relitively poor when it comes to actual Wants as apose to needs. Do you not have a missus that splits some of the bills/mortgage. You have forgot council tax by the way ! Yeah, I do. She works very few hours per week though due to her line of work being one of those which is a luxury for people and they aren't buying at the moment. I pay for every household item. She buys the bairns clothes and pays for herself. Fair? Probably not, but it works for us and I'm more concerned that she's got a little bit for herself to do 'woman things'. Hell hath no fury like a woman with nee shoes. Tbf, we have a canny house, canny motor but very can't buy new clothes every week or go out on the lash. That's turned into a rare occasion recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4267 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 The problem with a welfare state is people come to rely on it, or worse feel entitled to it, and therefore don't think about looking after themselves perhaps as much they ought. To put it another way, it's all ass backwards. As I've said before, getting people out of the lack of work ethic trap is the biggest task there is imo - whether there are jobs available or not. However, conversely I'd say that a lot of the middle/upper class have an expected "entitlement" to the good things in life which is much more odious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shackbleep 0 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 It was a choice tbf as there are other options, like an income tax increase, for example. Reducing the threashold for the 50% tax rate would surely have been a better option? But that would fuck over the rich wouldn't it? Silly me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7060 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Coffee gone up 7 percent at the station, the greed of it! I think the rounding and passed on costs will mean more than 2.13% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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