Shane Ferguson tearing apart international opposition

[Holden McGroin 6543]

Aye, should hopefully get more game time. He is very handy to throw on as he is direct and quick.

 

Bigi looks an absolute class act as well. I can see him becoming a top holding midfielder.

[Park Life 71]

Really like Fergie, not as much as CT but still.

 

Don't think I have ever not been impressed with him, has tenacity for a little lad, pace, that bit of skill to take on a player and a good cross.

 

Just surprised he hasn't been used more, although injuries have played a part.

 

We need to get him in the gym.

[Christmas Tree 4709]

My initial temptation this morning was to dig up some of the countless dogs abuse I've taken about this lads ability and left wing creativity. The problem is there is so much of it I wouldn't know where to start. Add to that, others would just put up various tangent counter arguments which would all be a bit sad when we are talking about a decent talent at the club.

 

Suffice to say what he did within moments of coming on is what imo we are sadly missing from the left. Someone to charge down the line and gift goals to Forwards. Forwards love knowing the balls going to come in and love being able to make the run and attack it. I also think it highlights that with this sort of player, we can play 442 if need be.

 

I still think he has hurdles to overcome with regard to his stature and where he plays, I just hope he's done enough to work his way up Pardews pecking order.

[CleeToonFan 1]

Aye he played well and looks good but bloody hell if you're taking it ott! Especially with the amount of posts about Ben Arfa not deserving to start people could dig up about you

[Tooj 17]

My initial temptation this morning was to dig up some of the countless dogs abuse I've taken about this lads ability and left wing creativity. The problem is there is so much of it I wouldn't know where to start. Add to that, others would just put up various tangent counter arguments which would all be a bit sad when we are talking about a decent talent at the club.

 

Suffice to say what he did within moments of coming on is what imo we are sadly missing from the left. Someone to charge down the line and gift goals to Forwards. Forwards love knowing the balls going to come in and love being able to make the run and attack it. I also think it highlights that with this sort of player, we can play 442 if need be.

 

I still think he has hurdles to overcome with regard to his stature and where he plays, I just hope he's done enough to work his way up Pardews pecking order.

 

Or we could go the other way and bring up your numerous posts about Ben Arfa or how even Lua Lua was the next big thing.

 

The main reason people had a go at you for your OTT praise for Ferguson was that you had gauged this opinion of him without ever really seeing him play.

[Tooj 17]

Personally I think his future lies at left-back, as sometimes whenever I've seen him start left-wing he doesn't seem to be as effective as he has less space to operate in. Whereas when he's playing left-back he gets more space in the final third so has more chance to put in a better quality ball.

 

I would happily see him tried at left-back and Santon on the right. Likewise Tavernier's performance last night showed real promise and it's the first time Simpson has had some real competition for his place and this might get him to buck his ideas up for the remainder of his time here. Either way it's good for us to have some options other than Simpson at last, even if they aren't the finished article that we were hoping for like Debuchy.

[Christmas Tree 4709]

jesus christ give over her put in one cross against a right back making iirc his first senior appearance as well,

 

you are miles and miles and miles away from being able to justify any of your cooing about him, again you're going over the top about someone who is yet to play a total of 2games worth of minutes in all competitions for the senior side, yes he's played less than 180 in total (it's actually much lower i just can't be arsed breaking it down more)

 

Sammy is ahead of him in the stakes for getting on for left wing and all

 

Really? Pardew seems not to agree with you

[Christmas Tree 4709]

Aye he played well and looks good but bloody hell if you're taking it ott! Especially with the amount of posts about Ben Arfa not deserving to start people could dig up about you

 

Id like to see you find one.

 

Like most sensible people (including Pardew), it was clear that he was not ready to start games at the beginning of last season. He got games and it didnt come off. He wasnt fit and his head wasnt right, later confirmed again by both the player and the Pardew.

[Christmas Tree 4709]

Or we could go the other way and bring up your numerous posts about Ben Arfa or how even Lua Lua was the next big thing.

 

The main reason people had a go at you for your OTT praise for Ferguson was that you had gauged this opinion of him without ever really seeing him play.

 

See reply to Cleetoonfan re Ben Arfa. Lua never got a chance here.

 

You cant call my verdict on Ferguson OTT when its right. Doesnt matter if its after one hour, one game, one month or one year. Each time I saw him play I could see him possibly being the answer to the problems on the left. Last night he did exactly what I have said he could do. Get the ball, scamper down the wing and pop in a gorgeous cross.

 

You all suck on your sour grapes though

[Christmas Tree 4709]

Personally I think his future lies at left-back, as sometimes whenever I've seen him start left-wing he doesn't seem to be as effective as he has less space to operate in. Whereas when he's playing left-back he gets more space in the final third so has more chance to put in a better quality ball.

 

I would happily see him tried at left-back and Santon on the right. Likewise Tavernier's performance last night showed real promise and it's the first time Simpson has had some real competition for his place and this might get him to buck his ideas up for the remainder of his time here. Either way it's good for us to have some options other than Simpson at last, even if they aren't the finished article that we were hoping for like Debuchy.

 

Agree with most of that.

[PaddockLad 17124]

Theres been a lot of people on here pre judging Merveux as being a very good player too, and lets face it,as we speak he's been shite ....has Merveux played any more or less than Ferguson in the last two seasons?.....its far too early to judge either tbh so get your hand out your pants and put the kleenex down CT. Fergie may be the next Nile Ranger, who came on and changed the game v Liverpool no more than 18 months ago and looked for all the world like a skinny Emile Heskey, only 3 times as good. I admit thats unlikely, but you really cant tell with younger players.

 

Ferguson has got to break into the side first and whether we like it or not Gutierrez is one of the first names on the team sheet and is likely to be next season as well. That may see Fergie disillusioned, and he might even leave to get first team football elsewhere, which would, it appears, mobilise suicide watch UK into action in the Boldon, Tyne & Wear area. If you ask me to I'd say we're looking at a left footed Wayne Routledge. Undeniably talented, but far too small to make a big impact due to the hugely physical nature of the league he plays in. I hope to be proved wrong on that.

[wolfy 12]

I don't buy into , " too small" business with players...you only have to look back at when Ryan Giggs exploded onto the scene and many others, including Michael Owen or even Defoe.

 

We know it's a physical game but most teams don't possess man mountains that cannot be played against.

If you are a slight character on the wing, you use your speed and skill to make your mark, not your physical strength to try and hustle your way through.

Edited September 27, 2012 by wolfy

[Christmas Tree 4709]

Theres been a lot of people on here pre judging Merveux as being a very good player too, and lets face it,as we speak he's been shite ....has Merveux played any more or less than Ferguson in the last two seasons?.....its far too early to judge either tbh so get your hand out your pants and put the kleenex down CT. Fergie may be the next Nile Ranger, who came on and changed the game v Liverpool no more than 18 months ago and looked for all the world like a skinny Emile Heskey, only 3 times as good. I admit thats unlikely, but you really cant tell with younger players.

 

Ferguson has got to break into the side first and whether we like it or not Gutierrez is one of the first names on the team sheet and is likely to be next season as well. That may see Fergie disillusioned, and he might even leave to get first team football elsewhere, which would, it appears, mobilise suicide watch UK into action in the Boldon, Tyne & Wear area. If you ask me to I'd say we're looking at a left footed Wayne Routledge. Undeniably talented, but far too small to make a big impact due to the hugely physical nature of the league he plays in. I hope to be proved wrong on that.

 

[David Kelly 1224]

I think, for once, Christmas Tree's post isn't far away from being spot on.

Yes we haven't seen much of Wor Shane but what we did see is him coming on and putting in the type of cross that none of our other wide players have managed in considerably more game time.

If you want to play 4-4-2 (especially with strikers like the ones we have) you need someone who can put crosses in. Jonas for all his quality (and I do rate what he does for the team) doesn't have great delivery down the wing, Ben Arfa isn't going to put many crosses in, Obertan is worse than useless (although he did actually beat his man a few times last night which was nice to see but again his crosses were gash) and I'm not even sure what Marveaux is but I'm not at all convinced he's a winger.

This leaves Ferguson and Sammy as players that we've not really seen much of but might be worth a shot. Of the two of them, I perhaps like the look of Sameobi more as a player so far but Ferguson looks more likely to me to be an old fashioned out and out winger who will put crosses in.

I wouldn't advocate starting him in the league at this stage but I'd definitely be tempted to give him a run out against Bordeaux (assuming we'll be playing a European line up for that game) and I think he's worth a place on the bench. He showed last night (yes against another reserve player) that he can come on an make an impact. Can you say the same about any other of our back up? Marveaux seems to be the next in line from the back up attacking players to get a game and he's had more oppertunities and not delivered as much!

[The Fish 10776]

fwiw, I don't think people were having a go at Ferguson's ability or application. It was CT's instant love-affair that was the focus of the mockery. Ferguson looks a decent prospect, but so does Tavernier and Bigirimana and Sameobi.

 

I remember seeing Tavernier and thinking he looked absolute dogshit against Peterborough in the cup a couple of seasons ago. Me and a mate had a big argument on the train back to London after the game. He was adamant that Tav would never make it as from what he saw, the player had none of the attributes you need at the top level. I erred on the side of patience, saying it was the lad's first ever full appearance, it was a cobbled together team and a competition we weren't taking seriously.

 

Last night it just so happened I was watching the match with the same lad, he turned up late and when he saw Tavernier was playing he asked how shit he'd been. I explained he'd been one of the better players and looked a decent prospect, it was only at the full time whistle that my mate finally backed down and agreed that he wrote him off too soon.

 

Now, my point is that CT made the same kind of snap decision that my mate did. Ferguson looks impressive in brief spells, but we've no idea how he'll perform over 90 minutes in the Premier League. So to call for him to usurp core players is as short-sighted as writing off Tavernier after 1 game. That's why CT got pelters, not because Ferguson hasn't looked decent, but that nobodies seen enough of him against Premier League opposition to make the kind of demands CT is.

[Andrew 4721]

should be pointed out that the only time CT has seen a lot of ferguson (for the reserves) he came away thoroughly disappointed with the performance

[David Kelly 1224]

fwiw, I don't think people were having a go at Ferguson's ability or application. It was CT's instant love-affair that was the focus of the mockery. Ferguson looks a decent prospect, but so does Tavernier and Bigirimana and Sameobi.

 

I remember seeing Tavernier and thinking he looked absolute dogshit against Peterborough in the cup a couple of seasons ago. Me and a mate had a big argument on the train back to London after the game. He was adamant that Tav would never make it as from what he saw, the player had none of the attributes you need at the top level. I erred on the side of patience, saying it was the lad's first ever full appearance, it was a cobbled together team and a competition we weren't taking seriously.

 

Last night it just so happened I was watching the match with the same lad, he turned up late and when he saw Tavernier was playing he asked how shit he'd been. I explained he'd been one of the better players and looked a decent prospect, it was only at the full time whistle that my mate finally backed down and agreed that he wrote him off too soon.

 

Now, my point is that CT made the same kind of snap decision that my mate did. Ferguson looks impressive in brief spells, but we've no idea how he'll perform over 90 minutes in the Premier League. So to call for him to usurp core players is as short-sighted as writing off Tavernier after 1 game. That's why CT got pelters, not because Ferguson hasn't looked decent, but that nobodies seen enough of him against Premier League opposition to make the kind of demands CT is.

I thoroughly agree with the sentiment about the way CT usually goes on about Shane, I just felt that for once he hadn't actually went too overboard and had a fair enough point.

I think the fact of the matter is CT can't stand Jonas and has beeing desperately clinging on to the hope that one of Lua Lua, Sameobi, Marveaux, Ferguson would come through and displace him from the team. This has been a lot harder for them than he thought it would be because he's underestimated Jonas' strengths and focused on his weakness (poor delivery from out wide).

The fact is, none of our regular wide players get good delivery into the box and I agree with CT in his view that if we are going to play that way, we need to think about the personel we use. Ferguson's delivery for the goal last night makes it easier to jump on his band wagon. I'm still to be convinced personally but I think we need to try and find out what he can do or fully commit to a different formation to move forward.

[The Fish 10776]

Well, I agree with Jonny, Ferguson should be moulded into the full back role. That way the front six can line up however we like, we'd still be able to get the benefit fro the lad.

[David Kelly 1224]

Possibly, if that can be done. It's all well and good saying we should make him a fullback but a lot harder to actually do it!

 

I'm actually coming round to the idea that 4-4-2 is a dying formation. None of the top teams really play it anymore so I think we should be looking at alternatives. I thought we'd found it last season but it appears Ba wasn't happy in the role that it left him with. That leaves us with the options of going back to 4-4-2 (which as far as I see it has the problems I've stated above), dropping Ba or Cisse, or coming up with another formation to accomodate our best players.

[The Fish 10776]

Possibly, if that can be done. It's all well and good saying we should make him a fullback but a lot harder to actually do it!

 

I'm actually coming round to the idea that 4-4-2 is a dying formation. None of the top teams really play it anymore so I think we should be looking at alternatives. I thought we'd found it last season but it appears Ba wasn't happy in the role that it left him with. That leaves us with the options of going back to 4-4-2 (which as far as I see it has the problems I've stated above), dropping Ba or Cisse, or coming up with another formation to accomodate our best players.

 

If we had a top rate RB and another Centre half in Colo's class I'd be happy playing a 4-3-1-2. Width coming from the fullbacks, Tiote and another in holding/destructive/defensive roles, Cabaye a little freedom to spray balls, HBA free license, Ba and Cisse up front.

 

The way I'd get around them not really clicking as a partnership yet is to have HBA and Cabaye worked with both of them, individually (in addition to together). That way they'd be able to both play as lone strikers at the same time... I'm probably not explaining myself well.

[Christmas Tree 4709]

Possibly, if that can be done. It's all well and good saying we should make him a fullback but a lot harder to actually do it!

 

I'm actually coming round to the idea that 4-4-2 is a dying formation. None of the top teams really play it anymore so I think we should be looking at alternatives. I thought we'd found it last season but it appears Ba wasn't happy in the role that it left him with. That leaves us with the options of going back to 4-4-2 (which as far as I see it has the problems I've stated above), dropping Ba or Cisse, or coming up with another formation to accomodate our best players.

 

Id love to think there was another way of playing with Ba and Cisse upfront (and happy) but I can see it. 442 is the only way to keep them both happy and if we play 442 it has to be with a real threat on both wings, ideally with crosses coming in like the one last night.

 

442 as we have been playing it with little from the left just looks a mess and makes us predictable.

 

Pardew is going to have to make a big call to give up on Ba or Cisse or give up on Jonas to accommodate a winger. The other alternative (That Ant usually goes on about), is switching Jonas and HBA. I really dont see how that would improve his end product but its worth a bash.

 

At the moment Pardew seems unable to make the big call one way or the other.

[Kid Dynamite 7008]

should be pointed out that the only time CT has seen a lot of ferguson (for the reserves) he came away thoroughly disappointed with the performance

 

Aye, we fucking heard about that match for a fortnight too as if he was some mint soopafan cos he did what hundreds/thousands of folk do on a weekly basis by going to see a reserve game

[The Fish 10776]

Id love to think there was another way of playing with Ba and Cisse upfront (and happy) but I can see it. 442 is the only way to keep them both happy and if we play 442 it has to be with a real threat on both wings, ideally with crosses coming in like the one last night.

 

442 as we have been playing it with little from the left just looks a mess and makes us predictable.

 

Pardew is going to have to make a big call to give up on Ba or Cisse or give up on Jonas to accommodate a winger. The other alternative (That Ant usually goes on about), is switching Jonas and HBA. I really dont see how that would improve his end product but its worth a bash.

 

At the moment Pardew seems unable to make the big call one way or the other.

That's utter rot that you've constructed to fit your argument.

 

We've not seen how they play with Shola as the target man with those two running off him

We've not seen how they play in a full strength 4-4-2 this season

We've not seen them play in a 4-3-1-2, a 5-3-2, a 4-1-2-2-1 etc. etc.

 

It's not just 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 man.

[Christmas Tree 4709]

That's utter rot that you've constructed to fit your argument.

 

We've not seen how they play with Shola as the target man with those two running off him

We've not seen how they play in a full strength 4-4-2 this season

We've not seen them play in a 4-3-1-2, a 5-3-2, a 4-1-2-2-1 etc. etc.

 

It's not just 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 man.

 

You are talking tosh.

 

You can never guarantee a full strength team as someone will always be out.

 

And including Shola ffs Laughable. The future is not Shola.

 

You can play around with fancy number formations til the cows come home. It makes no difference. Strikers need chances. The more chances the more goals. This season has been all about Ben Arfa creating the chances. We need someone doing this on each wing if we are to improve.

 

Its hardly fucking rocket science however they way you talk about it you would think it was.

 

And for the record, my argument regarding the left wing has been pretty consistent for 4 years or so now.

[The Fish 10776]

You are talking tosh.

 

You can never guarantee a full strength team as someone will always be out.

 

And including Shola ffs Laughable. The future is not Shola.

 

You can play around with fancy number formations til the cows come home. It makes no difference. Strikers need chances. The more chances the more goals. This season has been all about Ben Arfa creating the chances. We need someone doing this on each wing if we are to improve.

 

Its hardly fucking rocket science however they way you talk about it you would think it was.

 

And for the record, my argument regarding the left wing has been pretty consistent for 4 years or so now.

No I'm not

 

You can't guarantee, no, but you're basing your "GET RID OF JONAS" campaign on the performances so far, where we've been without a full strength side. You're more bothered about seeing the back of Jonas, than you are to overall performance of the 1st team. To have played Ferguson when we had a disjointed and limp midfield would have been suicidal. You ignore the good work that Jonas does for the team, as if the only thin a left sided midfielder should do is whip in crosses. That's not the modern game and it wouldn't benefit the strikers we have as much as a free-roaming Ben Arfa does. HBA can't roam if we don't have control of the ball. We don't have control of the ball if Jonas isn't working his arse off all over the left side.

 

The Future isn't Shola, but you know full well I wasn't saying that it was. I was listing a number of options that you are either unaware of or ignore. Shola has been excellent as a targetman or as a player to run down the clock. Why not play 3 strikers with Cabaye, Tiote and HBA in midfield?

 

See you start this part fine, strikers do need chances, you're right. However, chances don't have to come from the wing. Chances can come from wide, central, deep, long ball, dribbles, interplay, set pieces... fucking loads of places. Not just the left wing where Marveaux, Lua-Lua, Sameobi, or Shaney Waney play. The fact you spend more time crying for the removal of Jonas (one of our better and more influential performers) from our team speaks volumes about what you know about football.

 

It's not rocket science, no, but it is more complicated than you're making out. You're vendetta against Jonas is as boring as it is based on an irrational dislike of a player. I'd want Williamson out of the team before I saw the back of Jonas. I'd want a new right back before we spent money replacing Jonas.

 

Everybody wants Ferguson to do well and everybody wanted Lua-Lua to succeed, you're less bothered about their progression, you just want rid of Jonas.