Our finances

[Happy Face 29]

Oh, and a small matter, but only one new player signed since Keegan left the club would get into the current team at the expense of the players he had available to him at that time.

 

Tiote I assume.

 

Or Nolan?

 

Or Simpson?

 

Or Routledge?

 

 

Tiote. Of course.

 

Routledge ? haha, you're fuckin joking.

 

Who did we have playing on the right when Keegan went?

[LeazesMag 0]

Oh, and a small matter, but only one new player signed since Keegan left the club would get into the current team at the expense of the players he had available to him at that time.

 

Tiote I assume.

 

Or Nolan?

 

Or Simpson?

 

Or Routledge?

 

 

Tiote. Of course.

 

Routledge ? haha, you're fuckin joking.

 

Who did we have playing on the right when Keegan went?

 

he had N'Zogbia, Duff, Milner and Jonas to choose from.

 

Keegan would never have bought a mediocre player like Routlede in a million years, he's just like Franz Carr. A fast runner and headless chicken.

[LeazesMag 0]

anyway, this is getting sidetracked so I won't pursue this angle further.

[Happy Face 29]

Oh, and a small matter, but only one new player signed since Keegan left the club would get into the current team at the expense of the players he had available to him at that time.

 

Tiote I assume.

 

Or Nolan?

 

Or Simpson?

 

Or Routledge?

 

 

Tiote. Of course.

 

Routledge ? haha, you're fuckin joking.

 

Who did we have playing on the right when Keegan went?

 

he had N'Zogbia, Duff, Milner and Jonas to choose from.

 

Keegan would never have bought a mediocre player like Routlede in a million years, he's just like Franz Carr. A fast runner and headless chicken.

 

He'd sold Milner. Rare to see the others start on the right. I'd have gone with Barton

 

Nolan's scored as many already this season as Owen and Martins scored all season when Keegan went.

 

Williamson's kept Taylor on the bench when available.

 

Simpson wouldn't get on ahead of Beye. But Edgar was getting games at the time, and he was gash.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Happy Face

[LeazesMag 0]

Oh, and a small matter, but only one new player signed since Keegan left the club would get into the current team at the expense of the players he had available to him at that time.

 

Tiote I assume.

 

Or Nolan?

 

Or Simpson?

 

Or Routledge?

 

 

Tiote. Of course.

 

Routledge ? haha, you're fuckin joking.

 

Who did we have playing on the right when Keegan went?

 

he had N'Zogbia, Duff, Milner and Jonas to choose from.

 

Keegan would never have bought a mediocre player like Routlede in a million years, he's just like Franz Carr. A fast runner and headless chicken.

 

He'd sold Milner. Rare to see the others start on the right. I'd have gone with Barton

 

Nolan's scored as many already this season as Owen and Martins scored all season when Keegan went.

 

Williamson's kept Taylor on the bench when available.

 

Simpson wouldn't get on ahead of Beye. But Edgar was getting games at the time, and he was gash.

 

ah. Milner. The forced sale that compounded his frustration and not being given the funds back to spend elsewhere how he liked.

 

Williamson or Bassong ? Taylor or Williamson is a matter of current opinion, as they are both current players and people differ according to how they see it.

 

There is no way Nolan would have kept a fit Michael Owen out of the first team line up under Keegan, even if he had signed him in the first place.

[Happy Face 29]

There is no way Nolan would have kept a fit Michael Owen out of the first team line up under Keegan, even if he had signed him in the first place.

 

Nolan wouldn't have to, injury would do the job.

[LeazesMag 0]

There is no way Nolan would have kept a fit Michael Owen out of the first team line up under Keegan, even if he had signed him in the first place.

 

Nolan wouldn't have to, injury would do the job.

 

Sir Alex Ferguson should be signing Kevin Nolan then !

[Guest]

Good thread lads.

 

Mike Ashley is a fat cunt.

 

 

No ambitions though. Cost cutting is ludicrous. Idiot with ambition and certain bankruptcy FTW

 

u-turn of the decade

 

 

Comprehension issues.

 

u-turn of the decade

 

 

I haven't u-turned. The fact that you can't 'comprehend' this is super ironic Have you managed to comprehend the meaning of irony yet?

[manc-mag 1]

Good thread lads.

 

Mike Ashley is a fat cunt.

 

 

No ambitions though. Cost cutting is ludicrous. Idiot with ambition and certain bankruptcy FTW

 

u-turn of the decade

 

 

Comprehension issues.

 

u-turn of the decade

 

 

I haven't u-turned. The fact that you can't 'comprehend' this is super ironic Have you managed to comprehend the meaning of irony yet?

 

Wasting your breath tbh. Opinions aside, he literally just doesn't understand a lot of what's written.

[LeazesMag 0]

Good thread lads.

 

Mike Ashley is a fat cunt.

 

 

No ambitions though. Cost cutting is ludicrous. Idiot with ambition and certain bankruptcy FTW

 

u-turn of the decade

 

 

Comprehension issues.

 

u-turn of the decade

 

 

I haven't u-turned. The fact that you can't 'comprehend' this is super ironic Have you managed to comprehend the meaning of irony yet?

 

Wasting your breath tbh. Opinions aside, he literally just doesn't understand a lot of what's written.

 

I understood when we had a good board who showed ambition for the club. Did you ?

 

I also understand that if some awful mancs laugh at my embarrassment at only finishing 5th in the premiership and not playing in the Champions League, the simple course of action is to either take the piss back or clearly tell them they are fucking wankers and ignore them. Or better still, not be so stupid and sensitive and realise that this sort of thing is normal behaviour for football supporters and not go crying about it.

 

You must be devastated that "anybody but Fred" hasn't brought an end to your embarrassment, poor dear you.

 

Are you skidders Guardian Angel too by the way ?

 

Edited December 16, 2010 by LeazesMag

[manc-mag 1]

Good thread lads.

 

Mike Ashley is a fat cunt.

 

 

No ambitions though. Cost cutting is ludicrous. Idiot with ambition and certain bankruptcy FTW

 

u-turn of the decade

 

 

Comprehension issues.

 

u-turn of the decade

 

 

I haven't u-turned. The fact that you can't 'comprehend' this is super ironic Have you managed to comprehend the meaning of irony yet?

 

Wasting your breath tbh. Opinions aside, he literally just doesn't understand a lot of what's written.

 

I understood when we had a good board who showed ambition for the club. Did you ?

 

I also understand that if some awful mancs laugh at my embarrassment at only finishing 5th in the premiership and not playing in the Champions League, the simple course of action is to either take the piss back or clearly tell them they are fucking wankers and ignore them. Or better still, not be so stupid and sensitive and realise that this sort of thing is normal behaviour for football supporters and not go crying about it.

 

You must be devastated that "anybody but Fred" hasn't brought an end to your embarrassment, poor dear you.

 

Are you skidders Guardian Angel too by the way ?

 

 

Love the way you never stop banging on about that btw. If anyone's a delicate flower it's you-crybaby is not the word.

[Guest]

[LeazesMag 0]

Good thread lads.

 

Mike Ashley is a fat cunt.

 

 

No ambitions though. Cost cutting is ludicrous. Idiot with ambition and certain bankruptcy FTW

 

u-turn of the decade

 

 

Comprehension issues.

 

u-turn of the decade

 

 

I haven't u-turned. The fact that you can't 'comprehend' this is super ironic Have you managed to comprehend the meaning of irony yet?

 

Wasting your breath tbh. Opinions aside, he literally just doesn't understand a lot of what's written.

 

I understood when we had a good board who showed ambition for the club. Did you ?

 

I also understand that if some awful mancs laugh at my embarrassment at only finishing 5th in the premiership and not playing in the Champions League, the simple course of action is to either take the piss back or clearly tell them they are fucking wankers and ignore them. Or better still, not be so stupid and sensitive and realise that this sort of thing is normal behaviour for football supporters and not go crying about it.

 

You must be devastated that "anybody but Fred" hasn't brought an end to your embarrassment, poor dear you.

 

Are you skidders Guardian Angel too by the way ?

 

 

Love the way you never stop banging on about that btw. If anyone's a delicate flower it's you-crybaby is not the word.

 

No lad, I never came on any internet forum anywhere complaining about other football supporters hurting my little feelings ....

[manc-mag 1]

Good thread lads.

 

Mike Ashley is a fat cunt.

 

 

No ambitions though. Cost cutting is ludicrous. Idiot with ambition and certain bankruptcy FTW

 

u-turn of the decade

 

 

Comprehension issues.

 

u-turn of the decade

 

 

I haven't u-turned. The fact that you can't 'comprehend' this is super ironic Have you managed to comprehend the meaning of irony yet?

 

Wasting your breath tbh. Opinions aside, he literally just doesn't understand a lot of what's written.

 

I understood when we had a good board who showed ambition for the club. Did you ?

 

I also understand that if some awful mancs laugh at my embarrassment at only finishing 5th in the premiership and not playing in the Champions League, the simple course of action is to either take the piss back or clearly tell them they are fucking wankers and ignore them. Or better still, not be so stupid and sensitive and realise that this sort of thing is normal behaviour for football supporters and not go crying about it.

 

You must be devastated that "anybody but Fred" hasn't brought an end to your embarrassment, poor dear you.

 

Are you skidders Guardian Angel too by the way ?

 

 

Love the way you never stop banging on about that btw. If anyone's a delicate flower it's you-crybaby is not the word.

 

No lad, I never came on any internet forum anywhere complaining about other football supporters hurting my little feelings ....

 

 

You're on the verge of tears in every other thread tbh.

[LeazesMag 0]

Good thread lads.

 

Mike Ashley is a fat cunt.

 

 

No ambitions though. Cost cutting is ludicrous. Idiot with ambition and certain bankruptcy FTW

 

u-turn of the decade

 

 

Comprehension issues.

 

u-turn of the decade

 

 

I haven't u-turned. The fact that you can't 'comprehend' this is super ironic Have you managed to comprehend the meaning of irony yet?

 

Wasting your breath tbh. Opinions aside, he literally just doesn't understand a lot of what's written.

 

I understood when we had a good board who showed ambition for the club. Did you ?

 

I also understand that if some awful mancs laugh at my embarrassment at only finishing 5th in the premiership and not playing in the Champions League, the simple course of action is to either take the piss back or clearly tell them they are fucking wankers and ignore them. Or better still, not be so stupid and sensitive and realise that this sort of thing is normal behaviour for football supporters and not go crying about it.

 

You must be devastated that "anybody but Fred" hasn't brought an end to your embarrassment, poor dear you.

 

Are you skidders Guardian Angel too by the way ?

 

 

Love the way you never stop banging on about that btw. If anyone's a delicate flower it's you-crybaby is not the word.

 

No lad, I never came on any internet forum anywhere complaining about other football supporters hurting my little feelings ....

 

 

You're on the verge of tears in every other thread tbh.

 

give it a rest man. You're pathetic, following me around.

[manc-mag 1]

Just stating facts mate.

[Isegrim 9737]

How to grow bulbs for Christmas

 

To have hyacinths in flower for the Christmas period make sure you buy bulbs labelled 'prepared'.

You may wish to wear gloves when handling the bulbs as hyacinths can cause skin irritation.

The simplest compost to choose is bulb fibre, especially if the container has no drainage holes. Alternatively, a soil-based or soilless compost can be used, provided it has a good, open texture and is moisture-retentive but free-draining. It is not necessary to use a fertiliser-rich growing medium or to feed the bulbs after planting.

Wet the fibre or compost first and place a layer in the bottom of the bowl or pot.

Set the bulbs on the fibre or compost. They can be close together, but not touching each other or the sides of the container.

Fill around the bulbs with more fibre or compost, leaving about 1cm (½in) between the compost surface and the container rim to aid watering.

The tops of the bulbs should just be showing at the surface.

The next step - 'forcing' the bulbs to flower at Christmas

After planting, the bulbs need a dark and cool period (ideally 9°C/48°F) to encourage the development of a good root system.

 

Method 1

Place the potted bulbs in a black polythene bag and stand them in a cellar or dark corner of a shed or garage.

Check regularly and water if there are signs that the growing medium is drying out or that the vase needs topping up.

Bowls or pots without drainage holes should be tipped on their sides for a while after watering to allow the excess to run out.

 

Method 2

Place the potted bulbs in a cool, sunless situation outdoors, such as against a north-facing wall or fence.

Cover them with 15cm (6in) of bark or compost.

There will be less risk of worms entering the containers if the containers are set on a firm base, such as pieces of slate or old paving slabs.

 

Growing hyacinths in bulb vases

This is an alternative method for growing hyacinths. The bulb should be slightly smaller in diameter than the vase so that it sits snugly in the vase. Fill the glass with water to the neck and then place the bulb in the top. The water level should be just below the bottom of the bulb. The plant can then be treated in the same way as potted hyacinths (below).

 

Forcing Narcissus ‘Paper White’

Buy bulbs sold for growing as pot plants indoors.

Plant several bulbs per pot, with their tips just below the surface.

Use any good multi-purpose compost or bulb fibre.

Water well and leave on a warm, sunny windowsill.

Be ready to support plants as they can get lanky.

After blooming, leave in a frost-free place and plant outdoors in a sheltered, sunny spot.

[LeazesMag 0]

Just stating facts mate.

 

just a little tip lad, do yourself a favour, and stop following me around like an obsessed 6 year old girl with her Take That pics.

 

It's embarrassing. You do seem to know what embarrassing means.

[Christmas Tree 4711]

My view is that apart from lacking investment (no more than £10m would be realistic) in 08/09 he hasnt done much wrong financially. Its not this which is the problem with Ashley. The year he took over our revenue was £99m but our spend was £107m, to balance that year out, spend has to be £91m the following year if revenue stays the same. As revenue dropped £13m he had to find £21m in savings to sort out the problem. We sold £23m worth of players.

 

I can't pick out the £107m spend from that article but it looks about right (looks like it should be 98.2 expenses + 6.4 interest + net cash spent on transfers) so I guess you've got that figure straight from the accounts (I've not seen the 2008 accounts myself). If that's right though, have you any idea why the net debt jumped from £67m to £107m (according to that article). Where's the money gone to account for that debt? Why did it not just rise by the overspend amount, ie £8m?

 

The debt/loss thing is just like the debt/deficit issue for countries. Debt is not the problem, its the deficit (loss) that affects your ability to raise finance. If you have a huge loss, no-one will lend as you are a risk. If you have a huge debt but break even, people will lend to you.

 

Our finances were about as bad as it can get when he took over as we were at the end of our credit line. Whether a plan was in place to re-finance in June 2007 or not is irrelevant because by 2008 the world of 'finance' had changed forever. Me knowing what happened next makes me think that we would have been fucked. Shepherd cant be held to blame for not fore-seeing the crisis either, i want to be clear on that.

 

Was our debt any worse than most other clubs though? The stadium debt was secure and it was only the £25m or so remaining debt which we would have had to refinance at some point. If the worst came to the worst, a couple of years of cutting back (or just maintaining expenditure rather than increasing it) and we could pay off that £25m in a couple of seasons if absolutely necessary - it would not surprise me in the slightest if Ashley is able to pay of £25m of his loan this season alone in spite of the revenue drop, although I'd never have recommended cutting back this far. With our turnover, I'd have thought relatively speaking we'd be one of the better risks in the premiership, and only those who went majorly OTT like Portsmouth got into trouble they couldn't get out of. We were NOTHING LIKE Portsmouth in how far we stretched ourselves beyond our means.

 

As one comparative example of a club with no sugar daddy, Everton have a debt of £41m with a turnover of £80m, wages £50m (May 2009). From an outside viewpoint without looking into it in too much detail, they're managing to get through the financial crisis okay. All other things being equal we should easily be able to achieve at least £10m more turnover than Everton, so a £10m higher wage bill is sustainable. I wouldn't say Everton are particularly well run financially, but you would not say finances were "about as bad as it can get" there would you, and their loans aren't at threat of being foreclosed and forcing them into administration are they? Or should they be worried?

 

How do you know we were at the end of our credit line? I have a mortgage on my house, but it doesn't mean I can't loan any more money. It depends on the value of the house and the amount of the current mortgage. The stadium loan is secured against gate receipts, did we have anything secured against the TV income? Even if we did the value of this has risen significantly. Note, I am not saying we should have or needed to increase the debt from what it was, just addressing the point that we were at the end of the line with nowhere left to turn if extra debt was required.

 

I'm not saying the club was healthy when he bought it, but it was no more sick than most of the rest of the league, bar a few lucky teams.

 

Anyway, my point is one of optimism (where i came in on this) because once the rules change, we have to break even or limit losses anyway. My hope is that we are getting the financial side sorted out in preparation for this. Being 8th when no-one dared to hope for more than 17th whilst doing this, lets me see the glass half full. I'm not trying to defend him, the facts are the club was not healthy financially when he came in, £45m of debt had to be paid off there and then, the banks would not lend NUFC a penny more with him as the new owner and the club was stuffed with overpaid, poor footballer taking up more wages than was viable. It got worse from there because of his idiocy but it could have been a lot worse as finance basically disappeared.

 

Personally I have no confidence that Ashley is looking to run this club at a level anything other than to do enough to survive in the Premiership year-on-year as he pays back his debt. Players brought in will be cheap, some will do well and some will be poor. The "success" rate will probably be quite good, as you're not expecting much from a cheap player, whereas it seems anyone over £5m has to be a world beater to justify their cost, however the overall quality of the team will diminish even further. The ones that do poorly will add to the depth of the squad, but also to it's mediocrity, the ones that do well will be out the door as soon as someone offers a pot of cash for them (the disloyal bastard has been touting himself around for ages) or if they dare to ask for a wage they could get elsewhere (the mercenary cunt - it was in the paper he wants £60k a week!). Support and interest in the club will dwindle, some of that will be fickle and would come straight back with results, but some will be lost forever and will take years of (relative) success to build back up. IMO every year Ashley owns this club it will be harder and harder for us even to get back to where we were as a club when he bought it let alone surpass that. I hope he proves me wrong, but he hasn't so far, and to do so he'd have to completely go against his nature and previous business practices.

 

Arnt we in a better position than when he bought it already?

 

don't be daft man. How is that ?

 

 

You are joking, Shirley

 

We were dropping like a stone, from 7th the previous year to 13th

 

We has a manager renowned for the most depressing football on planet Earth

 

Goals were a rare occurrence, 38 all year. We've got 27 already!

 

Financial mis-management that was heading for administration

 

Directors who constantly lined their own pockets from the club.

 

We didnt have Tiote

[manc-mag 1]

How to grow bulbs for Christmas

 

To have hyacinths in flower for the Christmas period make sure you buy bulbs labelled 'prepared'.

You may wish to wear gloves when handling the bulbs as hyacinths can cause skin irritation.

The simplest compost to choose is bulb fibre, especially if the container has no drainage holes. Alternatively, a soil-based or soilless compost can be used, provided it has a good, open texture and is moisture-retentive but free-draining. It is not necessary to use a fertiliser-rich growing medium or to feed the bulbs after planting.

Wet the fibre or compost first and place a layer in the bottom of the bowl or pot.

Set the bulbs on the fibre or compost. They can be close together, but not touching each other or the sides of the container.

Fill around the bulbs with more fibre or compost, leaving about 1cm (½in) between the compost surface and the container rim to aid watering.

The tops of the bulbs should just be showing at the surface.

The next step - 'forcing' the bulbs to flower at Christmas

After planting, the bulbs need a dark and cool period (ideally 9°C/48°F) to encourage the development of a good root system.

 

Method 1

Place the potted bulbs in a black polythene bag and stand them in a cellar or dark corner of a shed or garage.

Check regularly and water if there are signs that the growing medium is drying out or that the vase needs topping up.

Bowls or pots without drainage holes should be tipped on their sides for a while after watering to allow the excess to run out.

 

Method 2

Place the potted bulbs in a cool, sunless situation outdoors, such as against a north-facing wall or fence.

Cover them with 15cm (6in) of bark or compost.

There will be less risk of worms entering the containers if the containers are set on a firm base, such as pieces of slate or old paving slabs.

 

Growing hyacinths in bulb vases

This is an alternative method for growing hyacinths. The bulb should be slightly smaller in diameter than the vase so that it sits snugly in the vase. Fill the glass with water to the neck and then place the bulb in the top. The water level should be just below the bottom of the bulb. The plant can then be treated in the same way as potted hyacinths (below).

 

Forcing Narcissus 'Paper White'

Buy bulbs sold for growing as pot plants indoors.

Plant several bulbs per pot, with their tips just below the surface.

Use any good multi-purpose compost or bulb fibre.

Water well and leave on a warm, sunny windowsill.

Be ready to support plants as they can get lanky.

After blooming, leave in a frost-free place and plant outdoors in a sheltered, sunny spot.

 

Would value any hints you have for a particularly delicate flower. 56 but hasn't grown up at all. Thinking of just binning it off tbh.

[manc-mag 1]

Just stating facts mate.

 

just a little tip lad, do yourself a favour, and stop following me around like an obsessed 6 year old girl with her Take That pics.

 

It's embarrassing. You do seem to know what embarrassing means.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes. You're an abject lesson in it.

[Happy Face 29]

There is no way Nolan would have kept a fit Michael Owen out of the first team line up under Keegan, even if he had signed him in the first place.

 

Nolan wouldn't have to, injury would do the job.

 

Sir Alex Ferguson should be signing Kevin Nolan then !

 

Like AlanShearer, we won the race to sign him ahead of Fergie.....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Nolan#Bolton_Wanderers

 

[Gemmill 44498]

I did wonder where Leazes had been hiding. Just caught up on this thread. Oh fucking dear.

[Guest]

I did wonder where Leazes had been hiding. Just caught up on this thread. Oh fucking dear.

 

 

It does make you wonder though, how many people need to tell him before he takes on board (no pun intended) what people are saying to him.

[LeazesMag 0]

I did wonder where Leazes had been hiding. Just caught up on this thread. Oh fucking dear.

 

oh dear. Accountant pops up in finances thread. Are you going to recommend the club spends millions and millions again backing a manager who was wasting it, like you did previously ?