Our finances

[ChezGiven 0]

My reading is that the revenue trend was going down and the as we know, the cost base is largely fixed by medium term contracts on the highest item on the accounts. The starting point was a loss-making business, so with the revenue trending down further, costs realtively fixed and finance from the banks exhausted (the critical piece in the jigsaw) the losses just got bigger.

 

You say that "Spending as a percentage of turnover could have been reduced effectively in the long term, with a sensible approach to buying/selling/management" but its the year on year that matters. Given the stickiness of wages, he had to sell players since the banks werent lending any more. The fact that we made a profit when he had the facility to lend the club more in 'that' window was stupidity but all this is irrelevant.

 

If he hadnt treated Keegan the way he did and we had kept going without relegation we'd all be praising his financial contribution. The Keegan incident and the subsequent behaviour (Kinnear and the window) are what makes him an idiot, not the financial stuff (although they are implicitly linked of course).

Edited December 14, 2010 by ChezGiven

[Christmas Tree 4711]

My reading is that the revenue trend was going down and the as we know, the cost base is largely fixed by medium term contracts on the highest item on the accounts. The starting point was a loss-making business, so with the revenue trending down further, costs realtively fixed and finance from the banks exhausted (the critical piece in the jigsaw) the losses just got bigger.

 

You say that "Spending as a percentage of turnover could have been reduced effectively in the long term, with a sensible approach to buying/selling/management" but its the year on year that matters. Given the stickiness of wages, he had to sell players since the banks werent lending any more. The fact that we made a profit when he had the facility to lend the club more in 'that' window was stupidity but all this is irrelevant.

 

If he hadnt treated Keegan the way he did and we had kept going without relegation we'd all be praising his financial contribution. The Keegan incident and the subsequent behaviour (Kinnear and the window) are what makes him an idiot, not the financial stuff (although they are implicitly linked of course).

 

 

So is your opinion that if he hadnt bought us we would now have gone.

[TheMoog 0]

I get the impression all that's happened is we've gone from owing money to the banks to owing it to Ashley instead, at the same time Ashley has sold off club assets.

 

... or would that be incorrect?

[Happy Face 29]

My reading is that the revenue trend was going down and the as we know, the cost base is largely fixed by medium term contracts on the highest item on the accounts. The starting point was a loss-making business, so with the revenue trending down further, costs realtively fixed and finance from the banks exhausted (the critical piece in the jigsaw) the losses just got bigger.

 

You say that "Spending as a percentage of turnover could have been reduced effectively in the long term, with a sensible approach to buying/selling/management" but its the year on year that matters. Given the stickiness of wages, he had to sell players since the banks werent lending any more. The fact that we made a profit when he had the facility to lend the club more in 'that' window was stupidity but all this is irrelevant.

 

If he hadnt treated Keegan the way he did and we had kept going without relegation we'd all be praising his financial contribution. The Keegan incident and the subsequent behaviour (Kinnear and the window) are what makes him an idiot, not the financial stuff (although they are implicitly linked of course).

 

 

So is your opinion that if he hadnt bought us we would now have gone.

 

I think that's the opinion of everyone on here except Leazes.

 

But, wouldn't that have been so much better in the long run?

 

Shepherd fucks us up, we go into admin....relegated....Leazes proved wrong rather than still supporting the rats that jumped off the sinking ship......debts written off left right and centre....THEN Ashley coould have bought the club, spent a fraction of what he has on it, debt free and owt he puts in goes on players.

[ChezGiven 0]

My reading is that the revenue trend was going down and the as we know, the cost base is largely fixed by medium term contracts on the highest item on the accounts. The starting point was a loss-making business, so with the revenue trending down further, costs realtively fixed and finance from the banks exhausted (the critical piece in the jigsaw) the losses just got bigger.

 

You say that "Spending as a percentage of turnover could have been reduced effectively in the long term, with a sensible approach to buying/selling/management" but its the year on year that matters. Given the stickiness of wages, he had to sell players since the banks werent lending any more. The fact that we made a profit when he had the facility to lend the club more in 'that' window was stupidity but all this is irrelevant.

 

If he hadnt treated Keegan the way he did and we had kept going without relegation we'd all be praising his financial contribution. The Keegan incident and the subsequent behaviour (Kinnear and the window) are what makes him an idiot, not the financial stuff (although they are implicitly linked of course).

 

 

So is your opinion that if he hadnt bought us we would now have gone.

 

If we hadnt been sold, there would have been no clause but i believe the intention of Sir John was always to sell his stake and he chose the perfect moment to do so, however opportunisitcally. By 2008 we had a business going into 150m of debt with falling revenues. Something had to givem whoever was in charge.

[Guest]

My reading is that the revenue trend was going down and the as we know, the cost base is largely fixed by medium term contracts on the highest item on the accounts. The starting point was a loss-making business, so with the revenue trending down further, costs realtively fixed and finance from the banks exhausted (the critical piece in the jigsaw) the losses just got bigger.

 

You say that "Spending as a percentage of turnover could have been reduced effectively in the long term, with a sensible approach to buying/selling/management" but its the year on year that matters. Given the stickiness of wages, he had to sell players since the banks werent lending any more. The fact that we made a profit when he had the facility to lend the club more in 'that' window was stupidity but all this is irrelevant.

 

If he hadnt treated Keegan the way he did and we had kept going without relegation we'd all be praising his financial contribution. The Keegan incident and the subsequent behaviour (Kinnear and the window) are what makes him an idiot, not the financial stuff (although they are implicitly linked of course).

 

 

So is your opinion that if he hadnt bought us we would now have gone.

 

I think that's the opinion of everyone on here except Leazes.

 

But, wouldn't that have been so much better in the long run?

 

Shepherd fucks us up, we go into admin....relegated....Leazes proved wrong rather than still supporting the rats that jumped off the sinking ship......debts written off left right and centre....THEN Ashley coould have bought the club, spent a fraction of what he has on it, debt free and owt he puts in goes on players.

 

 

In that scenario, Barry Moat would've been able to afford the club too

[LeazesMag 0]

http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2010/12/ne...-black-and.html

 

It's nothing you couldn't have guessed just from looking at the way the club has been ran over the past decade but a very interesting read none the less.

 

Leazes may want to avoid this one.

 

why ?

[Park Life 71]

My reading is that the revenue trend was going down and the as we know, the cost base is largely fixed by medium term contracts on the highest item on the accounts. The starting point was a loss-making business, so with the revenue trending down further, costs realtively fixed and finance from the banks exhausted (the critical piece in the jigsaw) the losses just got bigger.

 

You say that "Spending as a percentage of turnover could have been reduced effectively in the long term, with a sensible approach to buying/selling/management" but its the year on year that matters. Given the stickiness of wages, he had to sell players since the banks werent lending any more. The fact that we made a profit when he had the facility to lend the club more in 'that' window was stupidity but all this is irrelevant.

 

If he hadnt treated Keegan the way he did and we had kept going without relegation we'd all be praising his financial contribution. The Keegan incident and the subsequent behaviour (Kinnear and the window) are what makes him an idiot, not the financial stuff (although they are implicitly linked of course).

 

 

So is your opinion that if he hadnt bought us we would now have gone.

 

If we hadnt been sold, there would have been no clause but i believe the intention of Sir John was always to sell his stake and he chose the perfect moment to do so, however opportunisitcally. By 2008 we had a business going into 150m of debt with falling revenues. Something had to givem whoever was in charge.

 

Agreed.

[TheMoog 0]

 

... funny.

[Phil 6]

For me this picture says it all....

 

 

Can't see how anyone can say Ashley has the club looking healthy the way our debt has exploded since his arrival.

 

 

Like has already been said a lot of these debts were largely unavoidable. I doubt you'll find a single person on here who thinks Ashley has been splashing the cash to the tune of £168m through choice.

 

Regardless of where you attribute blame. The projected figures look like they be one of the best in the league and really that's all that matters.

[Matt 0]

There is no denying that our wage bill offered (and probably still offers) pretty poor value for money against other sides.

 

However we can only hope Ashley does not see past losses as something which must be recouped. He over-paid for the club and trying to make up for that by throttling cashflow now and in the future will only lead to difficulties on and off the pitch.

[Happy Face 29]

Regardless of where you attribute blame. The projected figures look like they be one of the best in the league and really that's all that matters.

 

Hopefully we'll stay up long enough for Ashley to balance the books.

 

Like Leazes is always keen (and right) to say...there won't be a bus parade laid on if he does though.

[Park Life 71]

Regardless of where you attribute blame. The projected figures look like they be one of the best in the league and really that's all that matters.

 

Hopefully we'll stay up long enough for Ashley to balance the books.

 

Like Leazes is always keen (and right) to say...there won't be a bus parade laid on if he does though.

 

When do you see said balancing of books if we stay in the PL?

[Happy Face 29]

Regardless of where you attribute blame. The projected figures look like they be one of the best in the league and really that's all that matters.

 

Hopefully we'll stay up long enough for Ashley to balance the books.

 

Like Leazes is always keen (and right) to say...there won't be a bus parade laid on if he does though.

 

When do you see said balancing of books if we stay in the PL?

 

 

£280m of debt...£5m a season profit.....56 years time

[Park Life 71]

Regardless of where you attribute blame. The projected figures look like they be one of the best in the league and really that's all that matters.

 

Hopefully we'll stay up long enough for Ashley to balance the books.

 

Like Leazes is always keen (and right) to say...there won't be a bus parade laid on if he does though.

 

When do you see said balancing of books if we stay in the PL?

 

 

£280m of debt...£5m a season profit.....56 years time

 

I prefer to call it investment rather than debt.

[Phil 6]

Regardless of where you attribute blame. The projected figures look like they be one of the best in the league and really that's all that matters.

 

Hopefully we'll stay up long enough for Ashley to balance the books.

 

Like Leazes is always keen (and right) to say...there won't be a bus parade laid on if he does though.

 

When do you see said balancing of books if we stay in the PL?

 

 

£280m of debt...£5m a season profit.....56 years time

 

I prefer to call it investment rather than debt.

 

 

Don't let Leazes here you say 56 year plan

[Phil 6]

There is no denying that our wage bill offered (and probably still offers) pretty poor value for money against other sides.

 

Who do you think is over paid? I can only think of Smith.

[Park Life 71]

Regardless of where you attribute blame. The projected figures look like they be one of the best in the league and really that's all that matters.

 

Hopefully we'll stay up long enough for Ashley to balance the books.

 

Like Leazes is always keen (and right) to say...there won't be a bus parade laid on if he does though.

 

When do you see said balancing of books if we stay in the PL?

 

 

£280m of debt...£5m a season profit.....56 years time

 

I prefer to call it investment rather than debt.

 

 

Don't let Leazes here you say 56 year plan

 

That's a lotta napkins.

[LeazesMag 0]

Regardless of where you attribute blame. The projected figures look like they be one of the best in the league and really that's all that matters.

 

Hopefully we'll stay up long enough for Ashley to balance the books.

 

Like Leazes is always keen (and right) to say...there won't be a bus parade laid on if he does though.

 

When do you see said balancing of books if we stay in the PL?

 

 

£280m of debt...£5m a season profit.....56 years time

 

I prefer to call it investment rather than debt.

 

 

Don't let Leazes here you say 56 year plan

 

that's about how long it would take Mike Ashley to equal the european qualifications of his predecessors, unless of course he sells first. Or takes the club into administration due mainly to falling revenues.....which is highly possible.

 

[LeazesMag 0]

Regardless of where you attribute blame. The projected figures look like they be one of the best in the league and really that's all that matters.

 

Hopefully we'll stay up long enough for Ashley to balance the books.

 

Like Leazes is always keen (and right) to say...there won't be a bus parade laid on if he does though.

 

that is true. He won't put the "profits" [meagre as they would be if he manages it in the first place] back into the club.

 

It's a yo-yo up and down existence for us, selling our best players I'm afraid, unless he is bought out soon....

 

Hope people are happy with watching a struggling football team, balancing the books.

[tinofbeans 91]

Regardless of where you attribute blame. The projected figures look like they be one of the best in the league and really that's all that matters.

 

Hopefully we'll stay up long enough for Ashley to balance the books.

 

Like Leazes is always keen (and right) to say...there won't be a bus parade laid on if he does though.

 

that is true. He won't put the "profits" [meagre as they would be if he manages it in the first place] back into the club.

 

It's a yo-yo up and down existence for us, selling our best players I'm afraid, unless he is bought out soon....

 

Hope people are happy with watching a struggling football team, balancing the books.

 

this season yes, and thats a relative statement. if we get top 10, i'd be happy but we (as we all know) need to build on it. my problem with ashley is that the experienced and best players won't take to getting the wage structure that is in place. i think Nolan, Barton and smith and Collocini are on silly money. and on medium term contracts.

[LeazesMag 0]

Regardless of where you attribute blame. The projected figures look like they be one of the best in the league and really that's all that matters.

 

Hopefully we'll stay up long enough for Ashley to balance the books.

 

Like Leazes is always keen (and right) to say...there won't be a bus parade laid on if he does though.

 

that is true. He won't put the "profits" [meagre as they would be if he manages it in the first place] back into the club.

 

It's a yo-yo up and down existence for us, selling our best players I'm afraid, unless he is bought out soon....

 

Hope people are happy with watching a struggling football team, balancing the books.

 

this season yes, and thats a relative statement. if we get top 10, i'd be happy but we (as we all know) need to build on it. my problem with ashley is that the experienced and best players won't take to getting the wage structure that is in place. i think Nolan, Barton and smith and Collocini are on silly money. and on medium term contracts.

 

well, yes, you are right. So why debate with optimism ? There is absolutely no point in doing it. The club is fucked, with no real future, because there is no ambition.

 

Not you, as you are highlighting it - but do others understand this ?

[Happy Face 29]

Regardless of where you attribute blame. The projected figures look like they be one of the best in the league and really that's all that matters.

 

Hopefully we'll stay up long enough for Ashley to balance the books.

 

Like Leazes is always keen (and right) to say...there won't be a bus parade laid on if he does though.

 

that is true. He won't put the "profits" [meagre as they would be if he manages it in the first place] back into the club.

 

It's a yo-yo up and down existence for us, selling our best players I'm afraid, unless he is bought out soon....

 

Hope people are happy with watching a struggling football team, balancing the books.

 

this season yes, and thats a relative statement. if we get top 10, i'd be happy but we (as we all know) need to build on it. my problem with ashley is that the experienced and best players won't take to getting the wage structure that is in place. i think Nolan, Barton and smith and Collocini are on silly money. and on medium term contracts.

 

well, yes, you are right. So why debate with optimism ? There is absolutely no point in doing it. The club is fucked, with no real future, because there is no ambition.

 

Not you, as you are highlighting it - but do others understand this ?

 

I'm optimistic for the new year.....you told me to be.

 

[LeazesMag 0]

Regardless of where you attribute blame. The projected figures look like they be one of the best in the league and really that's all that matters.

 

Hopefully we'll stay up long enough for Ashley to balance the books.

 

Like Leazes is always keen (and right) to say...there won't be a bus parade laid on if he does though.

 

that is true. He won't put the "profits" [meagre as they would be if he manages it in the first place] back into the club.

 

It's a yo-yo up and down existence for us, selling our best players I'm afraid, unless he is bought out soon....

 

Hope people are happy with watching a struggling football team, balancing the books.

 

this season yes, and thats a relative statement. if we get top 10, i'd be happy but we (as we all know) need to build on it. my problem with ashley is that the experienced and best players won't take to getting the wage structure that is in place. i think Nolan, Barton and smith and Collocini are on silly money. and on medium term contracts.

 

well, yes, you are right. So why debate with optimism ? There is absolutely no point in doing it. The club is fucked, with no real future, because there is no ambition.

 

Not you, as you are highlighting it - but do others understand this ?

 

I'm optimistic for the new year.....you told me to be.

 

 

yes. Make a New Year wish that the club is sold, quickly.

[ChezGiven 0]

We're 8th and have had some absolutely brilliant results and there is no reason for optimism?

 

Also, i know people dont like CT's opinions but tbf, i'd be embarrassed to let fans of other clubs see us characterise 8th as struggling. We all know why we can think that because we all expect it to go wrong. However, as of today, we arent struggling this season.

 

I'm optimistic that we will strengthen this January based on the last 2 windows. I'm far less optimistic that Pardew can keep us going at the same level nevermind improve us but lets wait and see.

 

Ashleys a cunt but i'm not going to stick my head up my arse because of it.