Andrew 4748 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Thing is, I think its fair to say that possibly 3 of the January deals just weren't possible in the summer on the terms we eventually agreed...Debuchy, Sissoko and Yanga. A lot of people like this policy. Or possibly a lot of people liked this policy when we finsihed 5th. The policy hasnt changed though. Theres a lot of criticism for Ashley for not strengthening in the summer, but if he had done it may have cost the club 5-10million more. We cant have it both ways, and there has been a lot of praise for this policy. True, and I'm one who does like the policy, getting the likes mbiwa, debuchy and sissoko is the proof it's worth persisting with, however it seems incomplete to me. It would be perfect if there was also the willingness to go and spend when it's needed also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17257 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 True, and I'm one who does like the policy, getting the likes mbiwa, debuchy and sissoko is the proof it's worth persisting with, however it seems incomplete to me. It would be perfect if there was also the willingness to go and spend when it's needed also. Its not incomplete, it is what it is. Ashley had a look in the summer and didnt fancy the prices. He liked them a lot more in January, many agreed. Thing is, if we go down, its going to look very short sighted.....to some I'm not saying its right or wrong, if we stay up the lack of Europe next season may well help us where it definetly hindered our league form this term. We need a striker and a centre back. But if Mike doesnt like the market again this summer then I wouldn't be holding my breath around the end of August....That kid at St Etienne is someone I've actually seen on ESPN two or three times and he looks fuckin mustard. Is there anyone else interested?...bound to be some big hitters iyam, I think he's unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) Even that, I think, is over-egged. Bored to death of people telling me how few we have scored from corners. Well, aye, we have got one 5 foot 10 striker. All of our big centre backs at the club probably aren't in double figures for their entire careers. Wigan have scored 3 times as many goals from corners as Arsenal. Does the fact that QPR have scored 4 corners this season ease the pain of embarrassing relegation. The way I see it is that, given we've a striker that's not great in the air and given we've not got goal scoring centre halves, why the fuck are we lofting the ball to the back post? Is it in the hope of Williamson (or whomever) knocking the ball down for our other players to snaffle up the scraps? Well it's not working. Given we've got dribblers like Ben Arfa and Marveaux, why don't we take the corner short to one of them and then look to tease an opening? Or fire it back to a fullback to launch a deep cross into the box aiming to catch the opposition between looking to defend the corner and breaking out from it? I don't believe that the options we're using are the best for the players we have. Edit: fwiw I hate short corners, but we simply haven't the personnel to make the most of high lofted crosses; we're not Stoke. Edited April 22, 2013 by The Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOONLONDON 0 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I agree with this policy....but I was concerned when we qualified for the europa , it was kinda washed over in the summer that we needed to address those extra games in terms of coaching ,fitness, set pieces etc Signing those extra players Debuchy sissoko, Yanga etc in Jan was a godsend...and I feel ...coached right they will become classy players...especially Sissoko,-Pardew is not a shit manager...but does have limitations...perhaps the quiet summer will sort things out gel better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianMag 0 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I think a lot of criticism aimed at Pardew comes from cliches that were apparent in2012. I believe he has addressed the long ball issue to a degree in 2013...but people still see ANY long balls as proof that he's not improving things on that score. Yes, we still have the highest average for long balls in the league with 70 per game. But the question to ask is whether that has persisted all season, or was it exacerbated by injuries, extra games, inexperience and inability? Look at our fixtures since the January window... West brom - 48 long balls (25 from Elliot) Mackems - 47 Benfica - 73 Fulham - 46 Benfica - 63 Man City - 47 Wigan - 53 Anzi - 62 Stoke - 59 Anzi - 67 Swansea - 41 Southampton - 72 Metalist - 53 Metalist - 75 Spurs - 58 (36 from Krul) Chelsea - 64 So, only 3 games in the 16 since the squad was improved have seen us hit the average 70 long balls. Over those 16 games the average number of long balls we have hit has been 58. Since we brought in some quality we hit less long balls than the averages of 15 other teams in the league. I know I'm cementing my statto status here, but if I just said "Pardew has reduced our reliance on long balls" I'd be told I was talking shite. It's lazy criticism based on reputation rather than how games have gone more recently. We may lapse into it sometimes, but overall there's been significant improvement. You're right about the long balls reducing considerably, but the fact of the matter is he still resorts to it when he doesn't know what to do. When teams have us pegged in our own half like the second half vs Villa (away) or the second half vs WBA (away) or Benfica(away), he goes back to pointless lumps up the field. We seem incapable of slowing the game down or attempting to keep the ball or hitting them on the break or making a substitution to negate the pressure on us. For example - I truly believe getting Ben Arfa on earlier vs West Brom could have helped as we would have been able to keep the ball for longer, and would have had another outlet to hit them on the break. We have players who can keep the ball in midfield like Tiote, Cabaye so the question is why do they attempt a ridiculous Hollywood pass after stringing 3-4 passes together, when they are perfectly capable of slowing the game down. Pardew has to tell them to just keep it simple at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOONLONDON 0 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 The way I see it is that, given we've a striker that's not great in the air and given we've not got goal scoring centre halves, why the fuck are we lofting the ball to the back post? Is it in the hope of Williamson (or whomever) knocking the ball down for our other players to snaffle up the scraps? Well it's not working. Given we've got dribblers like Ben Arfa and Marveaux, why don't we take the corner short to one of them and then look to tease an opening? Or fire it back to a fullback to launch a deep cross into the box aiming to catch the opposition between looking to defend the corner and breaking out from it? I don't believe that the options we're using are the best for the players we have. Agreed ^^^^^^^^^^^ Edit: fwiw I hate short corners, but we simply haven't the personnel to make the most of high lofted crosses; we're not Stoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 The way I see it is that, given we've a striker that's not great in the air and given we've not got goal scoring centre halves, why the fuck are we lofting the ball to the back post? Is it in the hope of Williamson (or whomever) knocking the ball down for our other players to snaffle up the scraps? Well it's not working. Given we've got dribblers like Ben Arfa and Marveaux, why don't we take the corner short to one of them and then look to tease an opening? Or fire it back to a fullback to launch a deep cross into the box aiming to catch the opposition between looking to defend the corner and breaking out from it? I don't believe that the options we're using are the best for the players we have. Edit: fwiw I hate short corners, but we simply haven't the personnel to make the most of high lofted crosses; we're not Stoke. I'd prefer to see more short corners when we don't have Shola or Coloccini and that in the box aye. Same with the keepers long balls. One of the benefits of Elliot that he picks out a throw much more than Krul. Problem we have is the idiots in the stand that get restless and start getting on players backs when they don't pass forwards. If we're going to stop the long ball, we'll have to play a bit more of the Swansea game, passing back and forward across the half way line. The home crowd especially don't like that. Woe betide anyone that passes back to the keeper as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 You're right about the long balls reducing considerably, but the fact of the matter is he still resorts to it when he doesn't know what to do. When teams have us pegged in our own half like the second half vs Villa (away) or the second half vs WBA (away) or Benfica(away), he goes back to pointless lumps up the field. We seem incapable of slowing the game down or attempting to keep the ball or hitting them on the break or making a substitution to negate the pressure on us. For example - I truly believe getting Ben Arfa on earlier vs West Brom could have helped as we would have been able to keep the ball for longer, and would have had another outlet to hit them on the break. We have players who can keep the ball in midfield like Tiote, Cabaye so the question is why do they attempt a ridiculous Hollywood pass after stringing 3-4 passes together, when they are perfectly capable of slowing the game down. Pardew has to tell them to just keep it simple at times. I don't think he resorts to it, I think the players do. i think Pardew (like us) can see these long balls getting heaved out and brings on Shola to try and make them stick and help aleviate pressure. When a defender/midfielder has just hit and hoped a few times he would probably prefer to bring on a fresh defensive alternative to punish the hoofer and set the example that we don't want to be doing it...but he doesn't have that option. Bring Ben Arfa on in that situation and either he'll be isolated and not win anything or he has to drop so deep to help out that he is wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Over analysed to death. Hes a mediocre manager who got lucky for a number of reasons last year but still at the end of the day, is a mediocre manager. We are assembling a squad that deserves a good manager to get the best out of them. Whether Ashley ever goes for one is a different matter altogether, but lets not over complicate Pardew too much just to be right on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 One of my best posts btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Over analysed to death. Hes a mediocre manager who got lucky for a number of reasons last year but still at the end of the day, is a mediocre manager. We are assembling a squad that deserves a good manager to get the best out of them. Whether Ashley ever goes for one is a different matter altogether, but lets not over complicate Pardew too much just to be right on the internet. I don't think I've written anything that could be stretched over 5 pages in Four Four Two or owt like. Putting it simply for you, we've replaced the likes of Simpson, Williamson, Perch, Ranger etc. with Debuchy, Mbiwa, Sissoko, Gouffran & haidara and seen an improvement across the board as a result. Occasionally we lapse back. There wasn't a second of premier league experience among those new buys, some have played too many games since coming and some haven't got enough games to be fully up to speed yet. But the last 16 games have been much better than the 16 before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17257 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 One of my best posts btw even if you do say so yourself. Are you genuine about not renewing next season because of Pardew?....would any change of manager get you to reconsider?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Over analysed to death. Hes a mediocre manager who got lucky for a number of reasons last year but still at the end of the day, is a mediocre manager. We are assembling a squad that deserves a good manager to get the best out of them. Whether Ashley ever goes for one is a different matter altogether, but lets not over complicate Pardew too much just to be right on the internet. I don't think it's been over analysed at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 even if you do say so yourself. Are you genuine about not renewing next season because of Pardew?....would any change of manager get you to reconsider?... I think sometime in November I had virtually decided not to renew. A good chunk of that decision is swayed by the fact each weekend match cost me about £200 - £250 a game on top of my season ticket. It's fair to say that decision becomes easier given the (IMO) dreadful football on display. And yes for example if Keegan 2 hadn't already happened and it did tomorrow, then that would probably sway me back to keeping it. So Ashley good appoint a well thought of attack minded manager and I might renew. Fair to underline all that by saying I'm not not ever have been a die hard attendee so you shouldn't review my decision in those terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I think sometime in November I had virtually decided not to renew. A good chunk of that decision is swayed by the fact each weekend match cost me about £200 - £250 a game on top of my season ticket. It's fair to say that decision becomes easier given the (IMO) dreadful football on display. And yes for example if Keegan 2 hadn't already happened and it did tomorrow, then that would probably sway me back to keeping it. So Ashley good appoint a well thought of attack minded manager and I might renew. Fair to underline all that by saying I'm not not ever have been a die hard attendee so you shouldn't review my decision in those terms. How would you know that our new manager is that though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21923 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 One of my best posts btw Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21923 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I think sometime in November I had virtually decided not to renew. A good chunk of that decision is swayed by the fact each weekend match cost me about £200 - £250 a game on top of my season ticket. And that's just what he spends on pies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17257 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I think sometime in November I had virtually decided not to renew. A good chunk of that decision is swayed by the fact each weekend match cost me about £200 - £250 a game on top of my season ticket. It's fair to say that decision becomes easier given the (IMO) dreadful football on display. And yes for example if Keegan 2 hadn't already happened and it did tomorrow, then that would probably sway me back to keeping it. So Ashley good appoint a well thought of attack minded manager and I might renew. Fair to underline all that by saying I'm not not ever have been a die hard attendee so you shouldn't review my decision in those terms. Thats fair enough just on missing out on the wages, cant be easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 How would you know that our new manager is that though? "Well thought of".... You do the math Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42442 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Thats fair enough just on missing out on the wages, cant be easy. When I used to be a cabbie, I'd regularly go to the game on a Saturday afternoon, then go to work. Taking the entire weekend off because of 90 minutes of football is CT's decision, so the £200 a game excuse is just that- an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 When I used to be a cabbie, I'd regularly go to the game on a Saturday afternoon, then go to work. Taking the entire weekend off because of 90 minutes of football is CT's decision, so the £200 a game excuse is just that- an excuse. Entire weekend! Aye, like I could get that past our lass! I usually work a Saturday double shift which is usually a £200 shift. True I could not drink, but that's part and parcel of the "day" for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42442 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 So, it's entirely your choice to blow your most lucrative shift of the week for the sake of a couple of Erdingers. No will power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 So, it's entirely your choice to blow your most lucrative shift of the week for the sake of a couple of Erdingers. No will power. I never said it wasn't my choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21624 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 What a crock of shit. How many Saturday 3 o'clock kick offs have we had? Plus you're self employed so can work when you want. You're perfectly free to not go without making false claims about how much you are 'sacrificing' for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 What a crock of shit. How many Saturday 3 o'clock kick offs have we had? Plus you're self employed so can work when you want. You're perfectly free to not go without making false claims about how much you are 'sacrificing' for the club. Always such a pleasure when you grace this place with your warmth. You do give the impression of being an utter horror of a bloke in real life the way you go on in here. I should know better than to respond to such a twat by now but.... 1. We havent had many due to Europe but as most on here know by now I tend to work double shifts Saturday and / or Sunday and child mind during the week. We are also talking about next season when our matches wont be getting put back to Snday due to European involvement. 2. I cant "work when I want", see above. And as even the most clueless twat knows, the wages a taxi driver can earn on a Saturday / Sunday, far outweigh what can be made during the week. 3. No claims were false. 4. And most importantly, I was responding to a question by Paddock Lad. Now please, dont respond. Just fuck off back under your stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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