Alan Pardew - Poltroon sacked by a forrin team

[ChezGiven 0]

HawK on NO (Good post)

 

It does all come down to a matter of opinion, and that's the magic that will either divide or unite fans, sack or back a manager or make or break a player. Anyone is welcome to disagree with comparative squad strength, as it is opinion-based, but not without a sound grounding in the facts though. We've rarely had such international pedigree throughout our team, but I would highlight in particular the use of our 2 defensive midfielders, Cabaye and Tiote. The tactical naivety that I was alluding to was essentially that Pardew was playing for the second ball* for most of the game, assuming our midfield pairing would mop them up time and time again, regardless of how our front 2 coped with it. A sound strategy - if you don't also instruct them both to sit practically 5 yards in front of Williamson and Coloccini - except the Sunderland players were wise to this and the huge gap between our front 2 and our midfield 2 was always filled with red and white shirts every time Krul punted it upfield. It's something remedied by a very quick touchline shout to your nearest player to feed on, 'Cabaye, push up on the long balls to get the second ball'.

 

Every manager has qualities, such as those I highlighted earlier with Pardew, but the key, key area that a good/top manager will have, is the footballing acumen/nous to change and adapt to your opposition each game and to be able to fix things when they are no longer working. Even when we were against 10 men, both our fullbacks refused to get forward and support the attack. It's a key thing in today's 4-4-2, with a strong midfield partnership, in possession you should be aiming to get your fullbacks moving forward in line with the ball while your centrebacks sit deep, and Pardew really hasn't cottoned on to this.

 

But bringing the above to a close, Yohan Cabaye is a player who plays at the centre of a French team that has just beaten Germany 2-1 in Germany, a team that the best of the English can't hope to touch right now. We all know how good Tiote is. I can't see beyond poor tactical setup as to why these 2 are not absolutely dominating games even when against 4-5-1. Coloccini has been rightfully lauded as one of the best centre backs in the league, and already Krul is up there as a good keeper, although there aren't too many good keepers around right now. Demba Ba has been here a year and proven his class, Cisse yet to prove so but the signs are there for all to see that he can be successful.

 

We move on to players like Jonas, who until recently was a regular with Argentina, who's ability to retain the ball and hold up play is one of the reasons we were able to survive the second part of last season after Andy Carroll left. Hatem Ben Arfa has been described by French players as one of the most gifted players of his generation. Santon, although learning, has more experience than people give him credit for. He was able to keep CRonaldo in his pocket when he played for Inter in the Champions League.

 

Every team has their Taylors', their Simpsons and their Williamsons, but the difference between them and us is the ability of the manager to at least get them playing in the right manner and to accentuate the strengths of our best players, not refuse to play them due to a lack of tactical knowledge on how to do so. Because our recent history has been so dire, it's easy to be blinded to the very poor tactics by the league position, I can understand that, and I can understand an attitude of 'Ok, lets finish this up and push on next year'. But what I don't understand is how people can praise Pardew so highly for how 'he' has achieved this, I think it's mostly down to the quality of the players at his disposal and the outstanding work of Graham Carr to ensure our recruits don't even seem to need to gel.

 

I have to agree that we're doing OK now, in terms of results. But with the evidence on display with our performances, it's hard to see how a manager of Alan Pardew's ilk is going to get us any further than we are. I mentioned a false ceiling before, and he's the man holding it up right now.

 

* Just realised some may not get what I meant by second ball - It is what is referred to often as when the ball is hoofed upfield (first ball), the resulting header/layoff/knock down of that hoofball is called the second ball. I think Graham Taylor coined it, he invented the long ball after all lol."

 

Nah, shit post.

[ChezGiven 0]

 

 

What a bunch of pretentious, pompous, supercilious, arrogant wankers you lot are, epitomised by Monsieur Given.

 

Get over yerselves man!

 

Look like a right prick now.

[Gemmill 46088]

The quote about Collocini's new contract being more important than any goal or any win this season. That's exactly how my boss feels about me.

[Christmas Tree 4851]

The quote about Collocini's new contract being more important than any goal or any win this season. That's exactly how my boss feels about me.

 

Your poor lass.

[Gemmill 46088]

 

Your poor lass.

 

Just dropped her off in town. Time to get quadraspazzed.

[ChezGiven 0]

A few thoughts on Pardew's performance so far this year which i file under 'why management is not an algorithm'. I dont think anyone outside of NUFC is under any doubt whatsoever that he is one of the highest performing managers in England this season but thats as much to do with outside perceptions and expectations as it is with the actual quality of the coaching and team preparation. With a lot of people writing us off at the start of the season (certainly not me of course), then its easy to see why the current team placing brings a lot of credit to Pardew. The external narrative is at same time annoying and satisfying. Before yesterday's game, the Sky commentators position the two clubs as plucky little clubs that have managed to perform the quite astonishing acheivement of being promoted and cementing their place in the premiership. The fact that we lie 6th is therefore remarkable. It is but as others have noted, its highly annoying that a club with the 3rd highest support in the country, who has played in the champions league more than Spurs is talked about in terms more fitting for Reading or Southampton. Whilst annoying, it does mean that Pardew will be currently developing a reputation as one of the best english managers in the game. So, from the perspective of a Newcastle fan, is that fair?

 

There has been some considered and some ridiculous criticism of Pardew during this season but i think its fair to acknowledge when mistakes are made, games are approached incorrectly and things go wrong due to significant decisions or issues related to the manager's sphere of infuence. This is perfectly normal and healthy for any organisation to be reflective and critically appraise how it approaches its organisation and performance. There is a tendency in amongst this however, to lose perspective on what it all means, in my opinion. For example, the West Brom home game, Norwich away, Liverpool away, Wolves at home were all disappointing results, even some of the wins and draws came with less than impressive performances. Do all of these issues (performance or result) relate to failings of the manager? The considered response has to be no, otherwise you'd be saying the players perform the same way week after week, with no variation in their performance, the only variable is the managers intervention. This is clearly not the case, the true variable is a player's peformance and this is of course the manager's responsibility.

 

So what drives player performance and how does the manager enhance this as much as possible? For one, the manager needs to prepare the side tactically anticipating stengths and weaknesses in the opposition and the home side and drilling the players in terms of the likely movement and tactics of the opposition, he needs to select the right players, the right formation and send them out with this drilled into them. This is what games like Football Manager replicate, the algorithm of analytical management that can be performed by anyone with access to the tactical strengths and weaknesses of the two teams. This though has very little to do with how sportsmen across the spectrum in team games or athletics etc talk about 'performance'. A commonly cited driver of performance by athletes is whether they are in the 'zone', a mythical place where the mind is settled, relaxed, focussed, confident and feeding off performance. Whether you accept that as a key driver for footballer's peformance or not, my point is that the individual mind-set, the spirit of the player drives performance. It drives the difference between hitting the target or skying it over the bar, its the difference between weighting the ball perfectly or over-hitting it, the difference between collecting the ball and controlling it into a space where it is protected and it just running away from the player. How does a manager effect this and can he be expected to?

 

For me, this is more than 50% of the manager's job. Player's dont start with a blank canvass each week and need to be told how to play, the system of play is built up over time and of course needs to be tweaked along the way but as with us at the minute, all players in the senior squad should know their role in defence, turnover and attack in both the 4-4-2 and the 4-3-3 we have deployed. They'll work on some specifics during the week but come match day, the thing that drives everything is 'peformance' i.e the thing that separates Ben Arfa's contribution for 45 minutes at home against Chelsea and the 45 minutes he put in yesterday. Management, rather than just being some algorithmic FM programme concerning formations and tactics, is as much about giving players the platform to perform at their best as it is about methodical preparation and the right formation. I'm not downplaying the need to get that right and i would agree with those that say we have got that wrong on a few occassions but where we end up in the league this season is massively driven by the manager's ability to provide a platform for performance over 38 games. The level of performance is going to fluctuate, this driven as much by the fluctuating form of the opposition and their qualities as our own. If the manager can find the right mind-set amongst the players and get them committed, working hard and playing, on average, towards the top end of their potential peformance wise then (as long as he get the technical bit roughly right), the team will peform well on average.

 

its the 'average' which is important for me, its not a sprint playing in the premiership and the squad we have is not equipped to win every week. Some weeks, the peformance is a bit under where it should be and the opposition arrives and plays at the top of their potential. In these cases, its possible to lose a game you should (on paper) win. What matters is not the individual game but the long arc of performance over the season, the mindset of the players to deal with disappointment and endeavour to address poor peformances and disappointments from one week and deliver better the following week. The reason why the start of the season was not a 'blip'? The reason why after a poor run before christmas we lose key players but go on to get some fantastic results? The reason why the current poor streak has been turned around and we deliver the results we should do on paper?

 

Pardew.

Seems like a fair assessment to me.

[LoveTheBobby 1]

Well in Pards - fantastically lucid* that interview like .

 

Loving the bullishness of it and fuck me but his ending speech almost had me up for a "gwahn alan" shout !

 

At times the sexy bastard was almost being too honest - great stuff :-D

 

*clearly had a glug on a deserved couple of flutes of the 'pagne .

[Gemmill 46088]

Seems like a fair assessment to me.

 

Serving up an absolute banquet of I told you so.

[ChezGiven 0]

 

 

Serving up an absolute banquet of I told you so.

 

I was trying to select one of CT's badly judged posts but gave up due to the innumerable u-turns he makes. Spoilt for choice tbh.

[Christmas Tree 4851]

Serving up an absolute banquet of I told you so.

 

From March

[ChezGiven 0]

Someone has to take some credit for our start to the season.

Actually CT, consistent support since it was clear he deserved it. You on the other hand have been a bit 'schizophrenic' on this issue.

[Gemmill 46088]

I'm convinced CT menstruates.

[Monkeys Fist 43115]

Roll on the manopause.

[Christmas Tree 4851]

Actually CT, consistent support since it was clear he deserved it. You on the other hand have been a bit 'schizophrenic' on this issue.

 

I take your September 18th September and raise you a 26th August

 

http://www.toontasti...080#entry960993

 

and a 29th August too.

 

http://www.toontastic.net/board/topic/28926-alan-pardew/page__st__2100#entry962668

Edited May 11, 2012 by Christmas Tree

[Christmas Tree 4851]

Anyway, I thought we were done with all this I said , you said bollocks

[duo 0]

Got to admire his honesty....

 

"If Manchester United ring Cabaye and tell him they want him to be their new Paul Scholes I just have to wish him well...."

Agreed.....something I can see happening as well. Get the CL spot is crucial to keeping plays such as Cabaye.

[ChezGiven 0]

Agreed.....something I can see happening as well. Get the CL spot is crucial to keeping plays such as Cabaye.

Why? If he wanted to play in the champions league he could have just stayed at Lille.

[Andrew 4872]

Why? If he wanted to play in the champions league he could have just stayed at Lille.

 

he left them for the premier league, and all the riches that offers, now hes proven to be good at this level he'll move up if hes offered it.

[ChezGiven 0]

he left them for the premier league, and all the riches that offers, now hes proven to be good at this level he'll move up if hes offered it.

So his objective in moving to England was to secure a further move to a bigger English club? That view only makes sense on that level. He gave up the opportunity to test himself on the biggest stage in club football because he wanted to ultimately secure a move to an English club doing the same. Which makes his move to Newcastle, viewed from the summer of 2011, all the more remarkable.

 

Listening to him interviewed on RMC the other day, i got the impression he moved to England to improve his overall game for the National side. Things change, a big offer may come in etc but nothing in leaving Lille for Newcastle last summer suggests his career decision making is driven by getting to an English club in the CL. If we had had a more mediocre season then he would have been better off showing his ability in the CL for Lille than a mid-table NUFC.

[toonotl 3116]

Congrats to Pards. Fantastic season. Surprised he actually won it. I was thinking the likes of Mancini or Ferguson would win it as usually happens. Truly deserving winner, well done.

[PaddockLad 17698]

Just heard Pardew on the radio making it pretty obvious he knows who will be making offers for his players this summer. Manu were linked with Cabaye in January and Chelsea with Tiote nearly all season it seems and Pardew "prepared" us for that possibility as well. We need champs league football to hang on to half the side next season in all probability. If Pardew can do as well next season as he's done this season he'll be manager of the fuckin decade.....well done on this season Alan, its been brilliant

[Happy Face 29]

Being in a side that can win the CL is more attractive than one happy just to qualify.

[Gemmill 46088]

Just heard Pardew on the radio making it pretty obvious he knows who will be making offers for his players this summer. Manu were linked with Cabaye in January and Chelsea with Tiote nearly all season it seems and Pardew "prepared" us for that possibility as well. We need champs league football to hang on to half the side next season in all probability. If Pardew can do as well next season as he's done this season he'll be manager of the fuckin decade.....well done on this season Alan, its been brilliant

 

I think he was illustrating a point rather than spelling out what's going to happen in the summer tbh. Did you listen to the full interview or just the Man United/Cabaye quote taken out of context?

[PaddockLad 17698]

Just listened to a snippet on 5live to be honest, I'll see if I can listen to a podcast of it or something. But as I say he did the same with Tiote earlier in the season. Long term selling 3 or 4 of our better players will be good for the club, I do understand that. But if things don't go our way tomorrow it will be very difficult to maintain a top 5/6 posistion if players leave for champions league football and we have to rebuild with at least 8 extra games next before Christmas alone. Even if we try to hang on to most of those we receive offers for the unrest caused by holding on to unhappy players priced out of a move to a manu or Real Madrid can be damaging too. Basically a huge amount riding on tomorrows game/s.

[Monroe Transfer 0]

Thought I'd round up what I remember from it last night:

 

- Seemed to confirm interest in Debuchy, said we're after a friend of Cabaye in a similar manner to how we went for a friend of Ba's.

 

- American guy called up, said something about hats and then asked a pertinent question about our set-pieces. Pardew was very critical of our set-pieces this season and blamed himself. They talked about how they try to be innovative with set-pieces but how they rarely work for us. Something they'll be trying to improve by getting in a set-piece specialist player/coach (can't remember which).

 

- Confirmed interest in a CB who could score goals (i.e. Douglas). Critical of our CBs for lack of goals, said the fourth CB would compete with Williamson and Taylor and that obviously Coloccini is guaranteed to start when fit.

 

- Local fans will have liked the segment when they spoke to this guy from Dunston FC. Very genuine mutual support between the two clubs, Pardew said something about the pie and peas making him ill and then shouted "C'MON THE DUNSTON".

 

- Confirmed interest in those French trialists, one is a CB they're very interested in. Looking to push through deals for both.

 

- Pardew was honest as ever about the possibility of players leaving. Nothing we didn't already know.

 

- Carver reckons we've got the best behind the scenes situation of any club he's ever been at.

 

- Pardew spoke about how they're working on a new deal for Ba, repeated what he said at the talk-in about how Ba wants love, not money and called on fans to supply him with plenty of the former. Said Ba is desperate for a goal.

 

- Pardew didn't dwell on the Manager of the Season award and was unsurprisingly quick to thank Carver, Andy Woodman, 'Stoney' etc.

 

- Carver's favourite goal of the season was Cabaye vs Man Utd. Favourite game was Sunderland away. Pardew's favourite game was Sunderland at home and his favourite goal was Ben Arfa vs Blackburn.

 

- Pardew is gay for Shola.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Monroe Transfer