Alan Pardew - Poltroon sacked by a forrin team

[Guest alex]

Allardyce would've been more subtle. Like when he played Harper in midfield.

[Lake Bells tits 1]

I was just trying to emphasise the correctness of the decision. Kadar would more than likely be shit but on the off chance he was decent, he risks losing leverage in the debate with the board.

 

You approach the manner with the conflict-angle though, taking for granted that Pardew is battling with the board over tranfers etc. It might be the case, it might also be the case that he is onboard with every decision Ashley takes, and have been told to spout shit and use whatever he gets from the get-go.

 

Im not convinced Pardew is the fans knight in shining armor just yet. Might still be a double-agent for ashley.

[Happy Face 29]

The goals (to me anyway) seem to be buy cheap sell high. If he sold Tiote for £25m he'd be making a massive profit, which is what it's all about. His argument will be that the system he's put in place of finding talent for cheap and flogging them for big money is working. As long as we don't get relegated. Again.

 

Nah, his goal is to push his brand globally. Top half of the table allows him to do that, he'll see that we won't get as huge a fee from selling Tiote as we did Carroll. As much because he's not English as because of his position. Ashley must know that with Krul, Colo and Tiote as the core surrounded by a mix of promise and average, can finish top half. Not saying I'm happy with such mediocre ambitions, but that's the reality as I see it.

 

I think we'll see a couple players come in (more than Ashley would have wanted, but Taylor's injury must force him to change tactic) and none of the core* leave.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Krul, Colo, Taylor, Tiote, Cabaye, Jonas, Demba

We're on TV loads anyway. It's not as though coming 11th makes much difference to coming 8th as far as pushing the brand is concerned. Not sure that is his major concern like (i.e. as far as NUFC is concerned).

 

I don't think Ashley restricts pushing the brand to advert visibility in our televised games. He wants us in the news headlines too, for better or worse. I truly believe this is why there was a two pronged name change 1) @St.James' 2)Arena...because it got the Twittersphere and everyone else up in arms over the same thing twice for the price of one.

 

Replacing a mediocre manager like Hughton who had done nowt wrong and was exceeding expectations with another mediocre manager like Pardoo had a similar news generating effect for the 'Sports Direct tycoon'.

 

We've always been a bit of a media circus, i think it was one of the main attractions for fatty.....If he had bought a Stoke type club it would have been much cheaper but it was never going to generate the same headlines was it? He could as easily have kept them mid-table and renamed their stadium.

[The Fish 10857]

big difference between Top 8 and Bottom Half, though. Even to Ashley.

[Happy Face 29]

big difference between Top 8 and Bottom Half, though. Even to Ashley.

 

 

How much? £4m or £5m difference in prize money? Compared to £20m+ transfer fee?

[Guest alex]

big difference between Top 8 and Bottom Half, though. Even to Ashley.

Big difference in what? Bonuses paid out?

[Guest alex]

The goals (to me anyway) seem to be buy cheap sell high. If he sold Tiote for £25m he'd be making a massive profit, which is what it's all about. His argument will be that the system he's put in place of finding talent for cheap and flogging them for big money is working. As long as we don't get relegated. Again.

 

Nah, his goal is to push his brand globally. Top half of the table allows him to do that, he'll see that we won't get as huge a fee from selling Tiote as we did Carroll. As much because he's not English as because of his position. Ashley must know that with Krul, Colo and Tiote as the core surrounded by a mix of promise and average, can finish top half. Not saying I'm happy with such mediocre ambitions, but that's the reality as I see it.

 

I think we'll see a couple players come in (more than Ashley would have wanted, but Taylor's injury must force him to change tactic) and none of the core* leave.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Krul, Colo, Taylor, Tiote, Cabaye, Jonas, Demba

We're on TV loads anyway. It's not as though coming 11th makes much difference to coming 8th as far as pushing the brand is concerned. Not sure that is his major concern like (i.e. as far as NUFC is concerned).

 

I don't think Ashley restricts pushing the brand to advert visibility in our televised games. He wants us in the news headlines too, for better or worse. I truly believe this is why there was a two pronged name change 1) @St.James' 2)Arena...because it got the Twittersphere and everyone else up in arms over the same thing twice for the price of one.

 

Replacing a mediocre manager like Hughton who had done nowt wrong and was exceeding expectations with another mediocre manager like Pardoo had a similar news generating effect for the 'Sports Direct tycoon'.

 

We've always been a bit of a media circus, i think it was one of the main attractions for fatty.....If he had bought a Stoke type club it would have been much cheaper but it was never going to generate the same headlines was it? He could as easily have kept them mid-table and renamed their stadium.

He's more arsed about getting as much money back as possible from NUFC than he is in pushing the SD brand via NUFC. IMO.

[The Fish 10857]

Based on public perception of success. No good Ashley being associated with unsuccessful brand, surely?

[Happy Face 29]

On top of the equal share...

 

7th place gets £10.6m

17th place gets £3m

 

So that's a Mauro Boselli worth of difference worth playing for. You can see why there's little insentive to do much more than survive.

[Happy Face 29]

He's more arsed about getting as much money back as possible from NUFC than he is in pushing the SD brand via NUFC. IMO.

 

Can't see it myself. If true, why alienate paying fans for no reason whatsoever as much as he's been keen to?

[Guest alex]

He's more arsed about getting as much money back as possible from NUFC than he is in pushing the SD brand via NUFC. IMO.

 

Can't see it myself. If true, why alienate paying fans for no reason whatsoever as much as he's been keen to?

They aren't alienated enough not to go. It was a sell out against Chelsea. I'm not saying he isn't using the club to push the brand, I'm saying it's not the main priority. Difficult to judge him as whatever his aim is for the club moves all the time on past evidence.

[Guest alex]

Based on public perception of success. No good Ashley being associated with unsuccessful brand, surely?

SD is cheap shit for charvs though so I don't think it matters that much to him re: the image (within reason).

[The Fish 10857]

Based on public perception of success. No good Ashley being associated with unsuccessful brand, surely?

SD is cheap shit for charvs though so I don't think it matters that much to him re: the image (within reason).

Might be cheap shit for chavs, but it's a successful brand... and that's what matters to him

[Happy Face 29]

He's more arsed about getting as much money back as possible from NUFC than he is in pushing the SD brand via NUFC. IMO.

 

Can't see it myself. If true, why alienate paying fans for no reason whatsoever as much as he's been keen to?

They aren't alienated enough not to go. It was a sell out against Chelsea. I'm not saying he isn't using the club to push the brand, I'm saying it's not the main priority. Difficult to judge him as whatever his aim is for the club moves all the time on past evidence.

 

Quarter of the crowds were lost until ticket prices were slashed though.

 

Either way, whether he wants to recoup cash, or get Sports Direct in the news....it better suits his goal to finish 17th and sell Tiote for £20m, than to finish 7th and keep hold of him.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Happy Face

[manc-mag 1]

Whether he's ' buying low and selling for profit and pocketing the cash' or 'steadily going for European places' (depending on which narrative you subscribe to), he can always make way more money elsewhere. That's the problem in a nutshell for NUFC.

 

The only thing that interested him to start with was acquiring at price x and selling for double or treble in a few years, while dicking about having fun as an owner in the meantime. When the arse fell out of world finance the only real potential NUFC had was to cost him money (ie selling out at a knock down price). There are sensible things he can now do between those two stools, but none of them are interesting enough for him to want to push us into the big league. Narratives as to what he's about now are one thing, but anything suggesting they were always the case from day 1 is a complete nonsense. We can't call anything with certainty beyond: he wants to avoid relegation and he wont spend for the CL.

Edited December 12, 2011 by manc-mag

[manc-mag 1]

Based on public perception of success. No good Ashley being associated with unsuccessful brand, surely?

SD is cheap shit for charvs though so I don't think it matters that much to him re: the image (within reason).

 

 

Can't argue with that.

[Happy Face 29]

Whether he's ' buying low and selling for profit and pocketing the cash' or 'steadily going for European places' (depending on which narrative you subscribe to, he can always make way more money elsewhere. That's the problem in a nutshell for NUFC.

 

The only thing that interested him to start with was acquiring at price x and selling for double or treble in a few years, while dicking about having fun as an owner in the meantime. When the arse fell out of world finance the only real potential NUFC had was to cost him money (ie selling out at a knock down price). There are sensible things he can now do between those two stools, but none of them are interesting enough for him to want to push us into the big league. Narratives as to what he's about now are one thing, but anything suggesting they were always the case from day 1 is a complete nonsense. We can't call anything with certainty beyond: he wants to avoid relegation and he wont spend for the CL.

 

Except that when John Hall sold him his stake he was quoted as saying the new fella wants to use the club to gain international recognition for his brand.

 

Sounds like a plan from day 1.

[manc-mag 1]

Whether he's ' buying low and selling for profit and pocketing the cash' or 'steadily going for European places' (depending on which narrative you subscribe to, he can always make way more money elsewhere. That's the problem in a nutshell for NUFC.

 

The only thing that interested him to start with was acquiring at price x and selling for double or treble in a few years, while dicking about having fun as an owner in the meantime. When the arse fell out of world finance the only real potential NUFC had was to cost him money (ie selling out at a knock down price). There are sensible things he can now do between those two stools, but none of them are interesting enough for him to want to push us into the big league. Narratives as to what he's about now are one thing, but anything suggesting they were always the case from day 1 is a complete nonsense. We can't call anything with certainty beyond: he wants to avoid relegation and he wont spend for the CL.

 

Except that when John Hall sold him his stake he was quoted as saying the new fella wants to use the club to gain international recognition for his brand.

 

Sounds like a plan from day 1.

 

Yeah, well it would have pretty much happened from day 1 if that was the real motivating factor tbh. An element of it would have occured to him (he'd be unlikely to miss the trick tbh) but it wasn't his reason for buying a football club for hundreds of millions of quid. While it's a slightly different way of looking at it, if he was considering buying it now, do you think he would? Would he shite. Plus he's tried to flog us in the interim.

 

It may well be the case now but you'd have to suspend all your critical faculties trying to reverse engineer it into some sort of overall 'plan' from day 1.

[Guest alex]

He's more arsed about getting as much money back as possible from NUFC than he is in pushing the SD brand via NUFC. IMO.

 

Can't see it myself. If true, why alienate paying fans for no reason whatsoever as much as he's been keen to?

They aren't alienated enough not to go. It was a sell out against Chelsea. I'm not saying he isn't using the club to push the brand, I'm saying it's not the main priority. Difficult to judge him as whatever his aim is for the club moves all the time on past evidence.

 

Quarter of the crowds were lost until ticket prices were slashed though.

 

Either way, whether he wants to recoup cash, or get Sports Direct in the news....it better suits his goal to finish 17th and sell Tiote for £20m, than to finish 7th and keep hold of him.

Aye, probably. In that respect it makes no difference which of us is right

[Guest alex]

Based on public perception of success. No good Ashley being associated with unsuccessful brand, surely?

SD is cheap shit for charvs though so I don't think it matters that much to him re: the image (within reason).

Might be cheap shit for chavs, but it's a successful brand... and that's what matters to him

Aye, but it's a successful brand in terms of making money. Not in terms of esteem. NUFC being successful is almost certainly at odds with making money / recouping what he's hoyed into the club so far. I.e. making money is what he's about. With that in mind the scenario HF just described is better from his pov.

[Happy Face 29]

Whether he's ' buying low and selling for profit and pocketing the cash' or 'steadily going for European places' (depending on which narrative you subscribe to, he can always make way more money elsewhere. That's the problem in a nutshell for NUFC.

 

The only thing that interested him to start with was acquiring at price x and selling for double or treble in a few years, while dicking about having fun as an owner in the meantime. When the arse fell out of world finance the only real potential NUFC had was to cost him money (ie selling out at a knock down price). There are sensible things he can now do between those two stools, but none of them are interesting enough for him to want to push us into the big league. Narratives as to what he's about now are one thing, but anything suggesting they were always the case from day 1 is a complete nonsense. We can't call anything with certainty beyond: he wants to avoid relegation and he wont spend for the CL.

 

Except that when John Hall sold him his stake he was quoted as saying the new fella wants to use the club to gain international recognition for his brand.

 

Sounds like a plan from day 1.

 

Yeah, well it would have pretty much happened from day 1 if that was the real motivating factor tbh. An element of it would have occured to him (he'd be unlikely to miss the trick tbh) but it wasn't his reason for buying a football club for hundreds of millions of quid. While it's a slightly different way of looking at it, if he was considering buying it now, do you think he would? Would he shite. Plus he's tried to flog us in the interim.

 

It may well be the case now but you'd have to suspend all your critical faculties trying to reverse engineer it into some sort of overall 'plan' from day 1.

 

He says he's tried to sell us. But what he did was go out on the piss and say "£400m or fuck off!". Not exactly Glengarry Glen Ross hunger for the leads.

 

I think he had ideas of doing a great job and renaming things at the height of our success. It would have done him no favours to come in and cut the ribbon on the Donnay stand on day 1.

 

If he goes ahead and sells the naming rights to anyone else, I might think different, as it is though, I think the only thing that slowed his branding push was his own fuck up and subsequent relegation.

[Park Life 71]

We'll be selling one big player per season I reckons and then buying in more hens for hothousing.

[manc-mag 1]

Whether he's ' buying low and selling for profit and pocketing the cash' or 'steadily going for European places' (depending on which narrative you subscribe to, he can always make way more money elsewhere. That's the problem in a nutshell for NUFC.

 

The only thing that interested him to start with was acquiring at price x and selling for double or treble in a few years, while dicking about having fun as an owner in the meantime. When the arse fell out of world finance the only real potential NUFC had was to cost him money (ie selling out at a knock down price). There are sensible things he can now do between those two stools, but none of them are interesting enough for him to want to push us into the big league. Narratives as to what he's about now are one thing, but anything suggesting they were always the case from day 1 is a complete nonsense. We can't call anything with certainty beyond: he wants to avoid relegation and he wont spend for the CL.

 

Except that when John Hall sold him his stake he was quoted as saying the new fella wants to use the club to gain international recognition for his brand.

 

Sounds like a plan from day 1.

 

Yeah, well it would have pretty much happened from day 1 if that was the real motivating factor tbh. An element of it would have occured to him (he'd be unlikely to miss the trick tbh) but it wasn't his reason for buying a football club for hundreds of millions of quid. While it's a slightly different way of looking at it, if he was considering buying it now, do you think he would? Would he shite. Plus he's tried to flog us in the interim.

 

It may well be the case now but you'd have to suspend all your critical faculties trying to reverse engineer it into some sort of overall 'plan' from day 1.

 

He says he's tried to sell us. But what he did was go out on the piss and say "£400m or fuck off!". Not exactly Glengarry Glen Ross hunger for the leads.

 

I think he had ideas of doing a great job and renaming things at the height of our success. It would have done him no favours to come in and cut the ribbon on the Donnay stand on day 1.

 

If he goes ahead and sells the naming rights to anyone else, I might think different, as it is though, I think the only thing that slowed his branding push was his own fuck up and subsequent relegation.

 

Well put it this way, I suppose what I have trouble with with the 'SD from day 1' branding theory is the way it's somehow implicit that acquiring NUFC for the price he did was worth hundreds of millions of quid to him simply in branding alone. Because it wasn't. Given the sort of person he is I'd be astonished if he didnt have half a mind on some SD promotional schemes when buying the club, but in terms of being his plan for buying....I don't think so. It's now become this unified theory though and one which is supposed to underpin everything he does from hereon in and everything he has ever done. It's cobblers. As you say yourself it'd have been better if he'd done it for a 'successful' team, which is probably true, but that being so, that remains the case now. So it equally supports the theory he should push us forward on the pitch. Only people don't accept that side of the logic. I don't think he will either necessarily, but not because of the branding theory, just because I think he runs the club on a whim. He'll make money off it because he can make money off it but it's worth little more as an indicator of his plans for NUFC than that.

[Happy Face 29]

Whether he's ' buying low and selling for profit and pocketing the cash' or 'steadily going for European places' (depending on which narrative you subscribe to, he can always make way more money elsewhere. That's the problem in a nutshell for NUFC.

 

The only thing that interested him to start with was acquiring at price x and selling for double or treble in a few years, while dicking about having fun as an owner in the meantime. When the arse fell out of world finance the only real potential NUFC had was to cost him money (ie selling out at a knock down price). There are sensible things he can now do between those two stools, but none of them are interesting enough for him to want to push us into the big league. Narratives as to what he's about now are one thing, but anything suggesting they were always the case from day 1 is a complete nonsense. We can't call anything with certainty beyond: he wants to avoid relegation and he wont spend for the CL.

 

Except that when John Hall sold him his stake he was quoted as saying the new fella wants to use the club to gain international recognition for his brand.

 

Sounds like a plan from day 1.

 

Yeah, well it would have pretty much happened from day 1 if that was the real motivating factor tbh. An element of it would have occured to him (he'd be unlikely to miss the trick tbh) but it wasn't his reason for buying a football club for hundreds of millions of quid. While it's a slightly different way of looking at it, if he was considering buying it now, do you think he would? Would he shite. Plus he's tried to flog us in the interim.

 

It may well be the case now but you'd have to suspend all your critical faculties trying to reverse engineer it into some sort of overall 'plan' from day 1.

 

He says he's tried to sell us. But what he did was go out on the piss and say "£400m or fuck off!". Not exactly Glengarry Glen Ross hunger for the leads.

 

I think he had ideas of doing a great job and renaming things at the height of our success. It would have done him no favours to come in and cut the ribbon on the Donnay stand on day 1.

 

If he goes ahead and sells the naming rights to anyone else, I might think different, as it is though, I think the only thing that slowed his branding push was his own fuck up and subsequent relegation.

 

Well put it this way, I suppose what I have trouble with with the 'SD from day 1' branding theory is the way it's somehow implicit that acquiring NUFC for the price he did was worth hundreds of millions of quid to him simply in branding alone. Because it wasn't. Given the sort of person he is I'd be astonished if he didnt have half a mind on some SD promotional schemes when buying the club, but in terms of being his plan for buying....I don't think so. It's now become this unified theory though and one which is supposed to underpin everything he does from hereon in and everything he has ever done. It's cobblers. As you say yourself it'd have been better if he'd done it for a 'successful' team, which is probably true, but that being so, that remains the case now. So it equally supports the theory he should push us forward on the pitch. Only people don't accept that side of the logic. I don't think he will either necessarily, but not because of the branding theory, just because I think he runs the club on a whim. He'll make money off it because he can make money off it but it's worth little more as an indicator of his plans for NUFC than that.

 

He's still spent less buying the club, paying off all the debt and financing relegation/promotion than Etihad have at Man City for their sponsorship deal....and he has full control of the club, and a permanant deal rather than 10 year, he doesn't just have to sit back and rely on anyone else who might fuck up his advertising budget. Think that sort of control was worth £134m to him, rather than spending, even half that on a Stadium naming sponsorship deal anywhere else.

 

You see it as a football investment which he gets the added bonus of branding from. I see it as a branding move where he enjoys the benefit of running a club on the side.

 

Either way though, one side of both views went sour pretty quickly and only the other side remains as a priority.

[Guest alex]

How's the Etihad deal relevant? That's just a way round the financial fair play rules isn't it?