Alan Pardew - Poltroon sacked by a forrin team

[Happy Face 29]

Houston, we have a flouncer!

[Lake Bells tits 1]

The january sale of Tiote will firmly establish us as a selling team. We have had a year to invest the carroll-money, and have already stated that the january window will only allow for maiga and Ridgewell or the like.

 

The signing of Demba ba in the summer along with cabaye was brilliant, but the fact remains we are not investing anything, we are merely looking after players in order to sell them on to a bigger club with a hefty profit.

 

None of this is Pardews fault though, and I doubt we could have gotten a better manager who would work under these conditions. Its still a sorry state of affairs, and it all feels like one big opportunity missed. With the scouting network and contacts in france, we could have built a top-6 side for 30 million pounds or even less.

 

Ah well, haway.

[Guest alex]

If teams are really prepared to buy Tiote for £25m he's as good as gone. If it was reinvested I wouldn't mind. Not sure how the timing of the ACN complicates the matter of a January sale though.

[manc-mag 1]

Just on a general point about selling/re-investing I think theres a chain you probably never want to get into these days (unless you're bankrolled in which case it doesnt matter) which is the one wheres theres the massively obvious link between a big sale price and the price you then end up shelling out on a replacement. See Liverpool with Torres/Carroll. Not to say Carroll can't still come good as he's still only 22, but the point being they should never have paid half that fee. So if someone does come in for Tiote at £25 million I think it's automatic we won't end up spending a large amount of that to 'replace' him as that's the period where clubs are vulnerable to overpaying. Ashley's already set that precedent with Carroll-where he disassociates selling price with replacement cost and any club knows we're not going to spend what we've taken in. We couldn't anyway because anyone coming in for the replacement cost would be expecting bigger wages than the cap. Overall disassociating the two things is important as it will drive buying prices down whenever we're at the table, which is also important from the point of view of wages (looking at the overall model). That's not advocating that we shouldn't be replacing-I think most people know when the strategic need exists and when it's simply ignored in favour of recouping-but at the same time I think you have to just write off the idea of headline big money replacements in the aftermath of a sale simply on the basis of wages.

 

Strengthening across several areas at less than eye watering fees would be an acceptable outcome for me if he went. Not something I'd be thrilled about on an emotional level, but if it did look like an overall strengthening then I could reconcile myself to it for the good of the team.

[Guest alex]

Aye, I'm pretty much resigned to it, although saddened at the prospect. But if it saw us go for (and get) the likes of Erik Pieters, Maiga and a centre-half then I could accept it on that basis. More likely he'll be flogged and Ashley'll put it towards 'running costs' and agents' fees though.

[manc-mag 1]

Aye, and I'd agree with you sadly if I was asked which way I thought it would get doled out.

 

Thing is if I was being a complete head-over-heart realist I'd say those you've mentioned - a centre forward (Maiga), full back (Pieters), an a.n. other quality centre half - together with another central midfielder (Tiote direct replacement), that would be a perfectly acceptable (progressive in actual fact) way of starting next season. So projecting forward if they were all in place by the end of the summer window I think we'd have a good team bar the Obertan position. On a purely emotional/day-to-day football level however, you know it's potentially putting the mockers on a team for the rest of the present season that's done well in the first third of this season.

 

That pre-supposes no further departures too of course which isn't a sensible assumption by any means.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

I think Krul will be sold as well. After every save he made against Chelsea me and mate kept saying 'champion, add on another million.' Pretty sad when you've accepted that any player who looks good will not have a team built around him but actually be flogged to the highest bidder asap.

[manc-mag 1]

Fair point about Krul but what's the top whack for a GK these days in terms of transfer fee?

 

Also in terms of GK position/this window - Man U wont buy, City won't, Liverpool won't. Chelski....? Arse...?

 

Not sure about summer window like.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

Fair point about Krul but what's the top whack for a GK these days in terms of transfer fee?

 

Also in terms of GK position/this window - Man U wont buy, City won't, Liverpool won't. Chelski....? Arse...?

 

Not sure about summer window like.

 

Not saying he'll necessarily be flogged in January, but wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the summer. To be fair, Cech has been getting some stick at Chelsea with many saying he's not the player he was and Man U have bought what appears to be a right duck egg who looks like The Grinch.

[Guest alex]

2J was telling me Chelsea have some lad on loan in Spain who is doing really well (GK). He'd be a great buy for Arsenal like imo but that position always seems to be Wenger's blind spot. Getting back to the original point, my worry would be Ashley's thinks 7th is achievable with what we've got minus Tiote so he could again follow the "sell in January, buy in the summer" approach. It would be a shame if the season stalled and we came about 9th/10th/11th after the good start.

[manc-mag 1]

Fair point about Krul but what's the top whack for a GK these days in terms of transfer fee?

 

Also in terms of GK position/this window - Man U wont buy, City won't, Liverpool won't. Chelski....? Arse...?

 

Not sure about summer window like.

 

Not saying he'll necessarily be flogged in January, but wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the summer. To be fair, Cech has been getting some stick at Chelsea with many saying he's not the player he was and Man U have bought what appears to be a right duck egg who looks like The Grinch.

 

 

Aye I reckon he's there for the season but they might re-assess in summer.

 

I actually don't rate Reina particularly, (I just think he has the best goalie kit in the league) but the Scousers all love him so hopefully he won't end up there.

 

Summer's the big issue for Krul as you say.

[Sonatine 11404]

Fair point about Krul but what's the top whack for a GK these days in terms of transfer fee?

 

Also in terms of GK position/this window - Man U wont buy, City won't, Liverpool won't. Chelski....? Arse...?

 

Not sure about summer window like.

 

Not saying he'll necessarily be flogged in January, but wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the summer. To be fair, Cech has been getting some stick at Chelsea with many saying he's not the player he was and Man U have bought what appears to be a right duck egg who looks like The Grinch.

 

He does tbf

 

[sweetleftpeg 0]

He doesn't look like a keeper De Gea like. He looks like they made him up for an episode of Jossy's Giants.

[Happy Face 29]

If the gear is worth £18m and Buffon was £32m (and Gordon is worth £9m) Krul must be on the £28m mark.

 

[The Fish 10870]

Perhaps it is naivety, but I just can't believe Ashley would see selling Tiote (or Colo or Krul) as beneficial to his goals? Unless we get another hugely disproportionate bid coming in, which I just can't see.

 

The only reason Carroll was sold was because we could get such a phenomenal fee. Would Chelsea spunk the necessary £25m on Tiote? I can't see it, and has been discussed, 'keepers rarely go for such inflated fees.

 

I know we've sold Carroll and Enrique, but other than that we've strengthened our team. I'm still not getting my point across well in my eyes...

 

I guess I mean that, if Sameobi was scoring goals, terrifying defences, receiving buckets of praise and generally setting our world on fire... he'd be gone when Man City (or whomever) threw £20m odd at us. With Tiote and Krul? I don't think the gap between actual value and any money we'd receive is big enough to force Ashley's hand.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

The goals (to me anyway) seem to be buy cheap sell high. If he sold Tiote for £25m he'd be making a massive profit, which is what it's all about. His argument will be that the system he's put in place of finding talent for cheap and flogging them for big money is working. As long as we don't get relegated. Again.

[The Fish 10870]

The goals (to me anyway) seem to be buy cheap sell high. If he sold Tiote for £25m he'd be making a massive profit, which is what it's all about. His argument will be that the system he's put in place of finding talent for cheap and flogging them for big money is working. As long as we don't get relegated. Again.

 

Nah, his goal is to push his brand globally. Top half of the table allows him to do that, he'll see that we won't get as huge a fee from selling Tiote as we did Carroll. As much because he's not English as because of his position. Ashley must know that with Krul, Colo and Tiote as the core surrounded by a mix of promise and average, can finish top half. Not saying I'm happy with such mediocre ambitions, but that's the reality as I see it.

 

I think we'll see a couple players come in (more than Ashley would have wanted, but Taylor's injury must force him to change tactic) and none of the core* leave.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Krul, Colo, Taylor, Tiote, Cabaye, Jonas, Demba

[Brock Manson 0]

Perhaps it is naivety, but I just can't believe Ashley would see selling Tiote (or Colo or Krul) as beneficial to his goals? Unless we get another hugely disproportionate bid coming in, which I just can't see.

 

The only reason Carroll was sold was because we could get such a phenomenal fee. Would Chelsea spunk the necessary £25m on Tiote? I can't see it, and has been discussed, 'keepers rarely go for such inflated fees.

 

I know we've sold Carroll and Enrique, but other than that we've strengthened our team. I'm still not getting my point across well in my eyes...

 

I guess I mean that, if Sameobi was scoring goals, terrifying defences, receiving buckets of praise and generally setting our world on fire... he'd be gone when Man City (or whomever) threw £20m odd at us. With Tiote and Krul? I don't think the gap between actual value and any money we'd receive is big enough to force Ashley's hand.

 

We know every player has a price.

 

Enrique wanted to leave and so wouldn't sign a new contract therefore we cashed in with as realistic a fee as we could muster. No doubt Liverpoo had tapped him up long before, but that's another matter. Carroll's sale was an opportunistic one - £32million for a player is a crazy amount, especially one who had only just began to show his potential.

 

The only 'concrete' evidence we have of Tiote going is from the Mirror, which doesn't really indicate whether he's staying or not. I'd imagine what's really going on is the Scousers might weigh up a bid and perhaps one or two of the better sides in the league are monitoring the situation but will only bid if Tiote himself wants to leave.

 

If he goes, it'll take a 7-figure sum which of course won't be re-invested into adequate replacements.

[Guest alex]

The goals (to me anyway) seem to be buy cheap sell high. If he sold Tiote for £25m he'd be making a massive profit, which is what it's all about. His argument will be that the system he's put in place of finding talent for cheap and flogging them for big money is working. As long as we don't get relegated. Again.

 

Nah, his goal is to push his brand globally. Top half of the table allows him to do that, he'll see that we won't get as huge a fee from selling Tiote as we did Carroll. As much because he's not English as because of his position. Ashley must know that with Krul, Colo and Tiote as the core surrounded by a mix of promise and average, can finish top half. Not saying I'm happy with such mediocre ambitions, but that's the reality as I see it.

 

I think we'll see a couple players come in (more than Ashley would have wanted, but Taylor's injury must force him to change tactic) and none of the core* leave.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Krul, Colo, Taylor, Tiote, Cabaye, Jonas, Demba

We're on TV loads anyway. It's not as though coming 11th makes much difference to coming 8th as far as pushing the brand is concerned. Not sure that is his major concern like (i.e. as far as NUFC is concerned).

[Ayatollah Hermione 13887]

I think as long as we don't go down and can keep finding canny players to flog on, he'll be happy. A revolving door transfer policy is asking for bother though.

[ChezGiven 0]

You mean 8 figures?

 

One thing about not playing an untested reserve in defence in December before a window where the manager has huge leverage over the owner regarding purchasing a new defender is that if the reserve comes in and has 2 or 3 great games, that leverage disappears. Assuming Pardew knows what he is up against in the boardroom and is planning to be around next season, he night consider it a risk if Kadar over performs forma few games. Just a thought anyway.

[Ayatollah Hermione 13887]

You mean 8 figures?

 

One thing about not playing an untested reserve in defence in December before a window where the manager has huge leverage over the owner regarding purchasing a new defender is that if the reserve comes in and has 2 or 3 great games, that leverage disappears. Assuming Pardew knows what he is up against in the boardroom and is planning to be around next season, he night consider it a risk if Kadar over performs forma few games. Just a thought anyway.

 

Would be canny depressing if that were the case and Pardew felt he had to play that way in order to get Ashley to fork some cash over. I suspect Kadar just isn't very good and that injuries have knackered his development.

[Guest alex]

Kadar only got a squad number in the last week btw so I doubt that's the case. He hasn't even featured in the Carling Cup where Pardew was willing to use other youngsters.

[Brock Manson 0]

8 figures aye.

[ChezGiven 0]

I was just trying to emphasise the correctness of the decision. Kadar would more than likely be shit but on the off chance he was decent, he risks losing leverage in the debate with the board.