Reasons to be positive

[Tom 14013]

Tiote got himself suspended for one game for constantly leaving his foot in in challenges that are well lost and now Coloccini and Williamson have done themselves for three matches each for some more idiotic on-field tomfoolery.

 

It wasn't mere tomfoolery it was pure skulduggery!

[manc-mag 1]

There is a lot ot be pleased about - namely the form of Andy Carroll and the difference that Cheick Tiote can make in the side. There has been some wonderful victories.

 

However, at this very moment there's also a lot to be concerned about. There's a definite downtrend in our performances. Sure, a significant proportion of blame can be levelled at the absence of some of our key players, however the fact that those players are missing is down to the players themselves and not some external force or injury (or combination). Barton got himself chopped for three matches for stupid behaviour, Tiote got himself suspended for one game for constantly leaving his foot in in challenges that are well lost and now Coloccini and Williamson have done themselves for three matches each for some more idiotic on-field tomfoolery.

 

Tiote picking up bookings is going to be an occupational hazard tbh. The guy covers every blade of grass and chases down everything within a 50 yard radius. It really has to be distinguished from the Barton, Coloccini and Williamson suspensions, which were admittedly utterly fucking stupid.

[Christmas Tree 4854]

tomfoolery is such a wonderful word and should be used more often

[OTF 7558]

Tiote picking up bookings is going to be an occupational hazard tbh. The guy covers every blade of grass and chases down everything within a 50 yard radius. It really has to be distinguished from the Barton, Coloccini and Williamson suspensions, which were admittedly utterly fucking stupid.

 

The others certainly take the cake, don't get me wrong, but at least 2 or 3 or Tiote's yellows have come from him leaving his foot in when he should be pulling it out. It's a nasty habit that will have him picking up loads of yellows. It could be easily avoided if he curbs his behiour slightly and it will have no negative impact on his style of play. Conversely for the team it will be of benefit as we won't need to defend as many set pieces. Fantastic player who has very good positioning, but that in my opinion is a weakness in his game. Thankfully it's one that can easily be coached out of him.

[ChezGiven 0]

Tiote's yellows form part of his overall presence in the middle, part of his aggression. They are a feature of his game as much as mis-placed passes are from a creative player in midfield. You cant separate it out, or he would need to work very hard anyway to eliminate him from his game at least. Its not something he picked up with us either, the lads on the twente forum said he would miss games through suspension.

 

Him, Carroll, Barton, Enrique and Nolan's goals are my reasons to be positive, just wish we could have added Ben Arfa to that list.

 

The caveats on any positivity will be fairly obvious to most on here. From the perspective of living with what you've got, you'd want Jonas and Ameobi to prove week in week out they deserve to play in this league but they dont have anything resembling consistency. I'm also hoping that Campbell will pull his fitness together, never been 100% convinced by Williamson. Colocinni is lacking something too, he is the type of defender that should look to emulate a player like Carvalho. He has the ability but he doesnt inspire confidence, especially in the air and lacks pace. The defender in the 'spine' of the team is a problem.

[ewerk 31229]

Tiote is still young, hopefully mistimed tackles are something that he'll learn to control but I'd much rather him putting in tackles rather than pulling out for fear of getting a card.

[OTF 7558]

Tiote's yellows form part of his overall presence in the middle, part of his aggression. They are a feature of his game as much as mis-placed passes are from a creative player in midfield. You cant separate it out, or he would need to work very hard anyway to eliminate him from his game at least. Its not something he picked up with us either, the lads on the twente forum said he would miss games through suspension.

 

Nicely romanticised .

 

The challenges I'm talking about are simply a case of not needing to be made. They're not a feature of his game, and it's not even poor judgement on making challenges. These are legs that are left out with the express intent of stopping someone. These have a place in the game and can be important in breaking up the oppositions attack, but in these cases they're in very silly positions when the other team are going nowhere. He can eliminate them from his game. If he doesn't he'll pick up yellows in more than every other game. We can't afford to be routinely missing a player like him given the difference he makes simply because of lack of discipline.

[manc-mag 1]

Tiote's yellows form part of his overall presence in the middle, part of his aggression. They are a feature of his game as much as mis-placed passes are from a creative player in midfield. You cant separate it out, or he would need to work very hard anyway to eliminate him from his game at least. Its not something he picked up with us either, the lads on the twente forum said he would miss games through suspension.

 

Nicely romanticised .

 

The challenges I'm talking about are simply a case of not needing to be made. They're not a feature of his game, and it's not even poor judgement on making challenges. These are legs that are left out with the express intent of stopping someone. These have a place in the game and can be important in breaking up the oppositions attack, but in these cases they're in very silly positions when the other team are going nowhere. He can eliminate them from his game. If he doesn't he'll pick up yellows in more than every other game. We can't afford to be routinely missing a player like him given the difference he makes simply because of lack of discipline.

 

Proportionately the bad tackles are tiny but because he makes a truly massive number of challenges they'll never be entirely erradicated. it's unrealistic to think so.

 

A contact sport, let the neighbours talk.

[OTF 7558]

Proportionately the bad tackles are tiny but because he makes a truly massive number of challenges they'll never be entirely erradicated. it's unrealistic to think so.

 

<hits head against desk>

 

He actually doesn't make a massive number of challenges. Having to make challenges should be a last resort of a good defensive midfielder. They're not bad tackles, it's just plain ill discipline. If you don't think that can be taken out of a players game (thourgh coaching or maturity of the player) then you might as well say that you can't coach a player to do or not do anything.

 

By all means make tackles when you need to, some of them might not be perfectly executed but DON'T simply stick your leg out when you're beaten and leave it there intentionally giving away a foul. You will get yellows for cynical challenges like these. I can imagine you saying you can't teach a goalkeeper not to handle the ball outside the box because he handles the ball a lot. Excercise judgement.

 

Before you counter with some nonsense that you can't excercise judgement in the heat of battle in the midfield, know this, they aren't the challenges I'm talking about.

 

And I'm out on this issue. Don't make me take pictures of some of the incidents I'm talking about.

[Tom_NUFC 0]

I'm sticking with my pre-season hopes and settling for finishing 17th.

Anything above that is a bonus. We're having our ups and downs and we will have tough times, but right now I'm optimistic.

[Park Life 71]

Tiote's yellows form part of his overall presence in the middle, part of his aggression. They are a feature of his game as much as mis-placed passes are from a creative player in midfield. You cant separate it out, or he would need to work very hard anyway to eliminate him from his game at least. Its not something he picked up with us either, the lads on the twente forum said he would miss games through suspension.

 

Him, Carroll, Barton, Enrique and Nolan's goals are my reasons to be positive, just wish we could have added Ben Arfa to that list.

 

The caveats on any positivity will be fairly obvious to most on here. From the perspective of living with what you've got, you'd want Jonas and Ameobi to prove week in week out they deserve to play in this league but they dont have anything resembling consistency. I'm also hoping that Campbell will pull his fitness together, never been 100% convinced by Williamson. Colocinni is lacking something too, he is the type of defender that should look to emulate a player like Carvalho. He has the ability but he doesnt inspire confidence, especially in the air and lacks pace. The defender in the 'spine' of the team is a problem.

 

Willi and Collo both need to bulk up a bit.

[spongebob toonpants 4156]

I'm certainly enjoying the season much more than I expected. Tiote, even with the tendency to yellow cards, has been transformative to the team.

The fact that Ben Arfa actually did pitch up here was a (short lived) unexpected result.

 

Carroll has been a revelation, and so many of the team have performed better than expected. I think every member of the first choice outfield players has performed at a higher level than I expected.

 

I realise there the possibility of the season going horribly wrong from this point is to say the least greater than zero, but I am looking forward to it, which is a huge step forward from my pre season foreboding

 

Oh and I lurve Chris Suiton

[Guest WDP]

I'm certainly enjoying the season much more than I expected. Tiote, even with the tendency to yellow cards, has been transformative to the team.

The fact that Ben Arfa actually did pitch up here was a (short lived) unexpected result.

 

Carroll has been a revelation, and so many of the team have performed better than expected. I think every member of the first choice outfield players has performed at a higher level than I expected.

 

I realise there the possibility of the season going horribly wrong from this point is to say the least greater than zero, but I am looking forward to it, which is a huge step forward from my pre season foreboding

 

Oh and I lurve Chris Suiton

Who?

[Monkeys Fist 43148]

The Pimp Daddy, he of the Two-Tone barnet, Dear Leader, Wor Chris.

[Monkeys Fist 43148]

Given the dread with I was looking at this season , the doubt I had over Hughton's ability to do it in the PL, I can't be anything but positive.

I'm not daft enough to think we'll be chasing Europe or owt, but our prime objective of avoiding relegation is eminently achievable.

So long as that remains the focus , we be safe.

[ChezGiven 0]

Tiote's yellows form part of his overall presence in the middle, part of his aggression. They are a feature of his game as much as mis-placed passes are from a creative player in midfield. You cant separate it out, or he would need to work very hard anyway to eliminate him from his game at least. Its not something he picked up with us either, the lads on the twente forum said he would miss games through suspension.

 

Nicely romanticised .

 

The challenges I'm talking about are simply a case of not needing to be made. They're not a feature of his game, and it's not even poor judgement on making challenges. These are legs that are left out with the express intent of stopping someone. These have a place in the game and can be important in breaking up the oppositions attack, but in these cases they're in very silly positions when the other team are going nowhere. He can eliminate them from his game. If he doesn't he'll pick up yellows in more than every other game. We can't afford to be routinely missing a player like him given the difference he makes simply because of lack of discipline.

 

Proportionately the bad tackles are tiny but because he makes a truly massive number of challenges they'll never be entirely erradicated. it's unrealistic to think so.

 

A contact sport, let the neighbours talk.

 

Its also part of his psychological impact on opposing central midfields. You cant disentangle the attributes, each player is a package with his physicality having an immeasurable impact. You dont know how much players like Cattermole or even Fabregas were put off their own game by Tiote's style and approach to play. Its a massive part of the psychological battle for confidence in the middle of the park that can win you games, particularly at West Ham and Arsenal.

 

Asking him to avoid yellows at all costs will mean a less imposing player as he takes less risks in terms of giving away fouls. The idea that he has merely just left a lazy leg out to foul a player to pick up his 5 cards doesnt seem right to me. No one wants him to pick up silly cards for no reason in neutral areas with men behind the ball. I cant recall each of his cards perfectly but am not sure this describes them. I do want him to continue to impose himself and therefore due to the small margins of error associated with the pace of our game, i expect him to pick up cards.

[Guest alex]

I'm certainly enjoying the season much more than I expected. Tiote, even with the tendency to yellow cards, has been transformative to the team.

The fact that Ben Arfa actually did pitch up here was a (short lived) unexpected result.

 

Carroll has been a revelation, and so many of the team have performed better than expected. I think every member of the first choice outfield players has performed at a higher level than I expected.

 

I realise there the possibility of the season going horribly wrong from this point is to say the least greater than zero, but I am looking forward to it, which is a huge step forward from my pre season foreboding

 

Oh and I lurve Chris Suiton

Who?

Hughton (with a) suit on, man.

[Guest WDP]

I'm certainly enjoying the season much more than I expected. Tiote, even with the tendency to yellow cards, has been transformative to the team.

The fact that Ben Arfa actually did pitch up here was a (short lived) unexpected result.

 

Carroll has been a revelation, and so many of the team have performed better than expected. I think every member of the first choice outfield players has performed at a higher level than I expected.

 

I realise there the possibility of the season going horribly wrong from this point is to say the least greater than zero, but I am looking forward to it, which is a huge step forward from my pre season foreboding

 

Oh and I lurve Chris Suiton

Who?

Hughton (with a) suit on, man.

I was pissed last neet that's my excuse.

[Guest alex]

As good an excuse as any tbf.

[Christmas Tree 4854]

Given the dread with I was looking at this season , the doubt I had over Hughton's ability to do it in the PL, I can't be anything but positive.

I'm not daft enough to think we'll be chasing Europe or owt, but our prime objective of avoiding relegation is eminently achievable.

So long as that remains the focus , we be safe.

 

Hi, Hello, Ciao!

 

While Europe is a nice side dream for my season and while I understand all the "as long as we survive" stuff from the majority on here, I do think this year the league is turning out to be the most open in a long time and you could litterally find there will only be a handful of points between say 7th and 15th, not the 25 there was last year.

 

A few nice additions, a bit of luck and............

[ewerk 31229]

Given the dread with I was looking at this season , the doubt I had over Hughton's ability to do it in the PL, I can't be anything but positive.

I'm not daft enough to think we'll be chasing Europe or owt, but our prime objective of avoiding relegation is eminently achievable.

So long as that remains the focus , we be safe.

 

Hi, Hello, Ciao!

 

While Europe is a nice side dream for my season and while I understand all the "as long as we survive" stuff from the majority on here, I do think this year the league is turning out to be the most open in a long time and you could litterally find there will only be a handful of points between say 7th and 15th, not the 25 there was last year.

 

A few nice additions, a bit of luck and............

 

A few injuries, no incomings in January...........

[sammynb 3517]

Tiote's yellows form part of his overall presence in the middle, part of his aggression. They are a feature of his game as much as mis-placed passes are from a creative player in midfield. You cant separate it out, or he would need to work very hard anyway to eliminate him from his game at least. Its not something he picked up with us either, the lads on the twente forum said he would miss games through suspension.

 

Nicely romanticised .

 

The challenges I'm talking about are simply a case of not needing to be made. They're not a feature of his game, and it's not even poor judgement on making challenges. These are legs that are left out with the express intent of stopping someone. These have a place in the game and can be important in breaking up the oppositions attack, but in these cases they're in very silly positions when the other team are going nowhere. He can eliminate them from his game. If he doesn't he'll pick up yellows in more than every other game. We can't afford to be routinely missing a player like him given the difference he makes simply because of lack of discipline.

 

Proportionately the bad tackles are tiny but because he makes a truly massive number of challenges they'll never be entirely erradicated. it's unrealistic to think so.

 

A contact sport, let the neighbours talk.

 

Its also part of his psychological impact on opposing central midfields. You cant disentangle the attributes, each player is a package with his physicality having an immeasurable impact. You dont know how much players like Cattermole or even Fabregas were put off their own game by Tiote's style and approach to play. Its a massive part of the psychological battle for confidence in the middle of the park that can win you games, particularly at West Ham and Arsenal.

 

Asking him to avoid yellows at all costs will mean a less imposing player as he takes less risks in terms of giving away fouls. The idea that he has merely just left a lazy leg out to foul a player to pick up his 5 cards doesnt seem right to me. No one wants him to pick up silly cards for no reason in neutral areas with men behind the ball. I cant recall each of his cards perfectly but am not sure this describes them. I do want him to continue to impose himself and therefore due to the small margins of error associated with the pace of our game, i expect him to pick up cards.

 

The one against Arsenal was a tug on a shirt, Whilshire I think, around the half way and not worthy of a booking.

[Guest alex]

Technically that is an automatic yellow though, isn't it?

[sammynb 3517]

Technically that is an automatic yellow though, isn't it?

 

Yes but a "leveller" by de Jong is perfectly legal.

TBH if had of been on Song it might have gone unpunished but any of Arsenal's flair players and it's like a tackle from behind or the grassy knoll.