keegan to come back

[Gemmill 46030]

Bellamy was wrong to get involved in the chair incident, and the Cardiff nightclub.

 

I'm not making excuses for it when I say that Dyer has been involved a lot more unsavoury incidents than this.

 

As have other players at other clubs, Rio Ferdinand for one - who is still at manu.

 

Bellamy WAS a catalyst for the rise of the club on the field - where it matters - a proper manager would have helped him focus better. No one is perfect, we all have personality traits. The simple fact Craig is that Souness didn't kick Bellamy out because he was a "disruptive influence", he kicked him out because he crossed him personally. The presence of Dyer at the club proves that without any doubt or discussion whatsoever. Hence, Souness doesn't put the club first, he puts himself first.

You may have wanted Bellamy out before Souness came, thats your choice, but until we do better without him there is no justification for letting him go, especially when you weigh up the financial cost to the club that will be involved when all the dust is settled and we reach the Champions League again, if ever.

 

Is it worth it ? This is the question.

 

Bad, incompetent management all round in my view. But some of us also said this about Souness when he was appointed at Newcastle, and before.

64702[/snapback]

 

Totally agree with you there (as i always do on the Bellamy issue)

64709[/snapback]

 

Dyer hasn't been a disruptive influence whilst Souness was at the club. Bellamy was and he got turfed out for it. Perhaps Souness was rash - maybe even he regrets getting rid of Bellamy - but Bellamy fully deserved to go for the way he carried on.

[Shearergol 0]

Bellamy was wrong to get involved in the chair incident, and the Cardiff nightclub.

 

I'm not making excuses for it when I say that Dyer has been involved a lot more unsavoury incidents than this.

 

As have other players at other clubs, Rio Ferdinand for one - who is still at manu.

 

Bellamy WAS a catalyst for the rise of the club on the field - where it matters - a proper manager would have helped him focus better. No one is perfect, we all have personality traits. The simple fact Craig is that Souness didn't kick Bellamy out because he was a "disruptive influence", he kicked him out because he crossed him personally. The presence of Dyer at the club proves that without any doubt or discussion whatsoever. Hence, Souness doesn't put the club first, he puts himself first.

You may have wanted Bellamy out before Souness came, thats your choice, but until we do better without him there is no justification for letting him go, especially when you weigh up the financial cost to the club that will be involved when all the dust is settled and we reach the Champions League again, if ever.

 

Is it worth it ? This is the question.

 

Bad, incompetent management all round in my view. But some of us also said this about Souness when he was appointed at Newcastle, and before.

64702[/snapback]

 

Totally agree with you there (as i always do on the Bellamy issue)

64709[/snapback]

 

 

Apart from the fact that he got twatted by Lee Bowyer, what has Dyer ever done that has been classed as an unsavoury incident within the club? (serious question, has he ever thrown a chair at a member of the coaching staff for example?)

[Craig 6700]

I don't think Dyer has put a foot wrong since the "i'm not playing on the wing" carry on at Middlesbrough last year. Ergo, he cannot be considered a 'disruptuive influence' under the management of Graeme Souness.

 

Bellamy knew what Souness was all about before he came and still he chose to push his luck. He was like the kid who was told not to touch something only to go and do so the minute the adult's back was turned.

 

What often gets forgotten is that in the early games under Souness, Bellamy was on fire and as a result, Souness was playing him regularly up front. We then had the incident at Charlton when he was substituted just after the hour and he was quite clearly shown to mouth "fucking prick" in the direction of the bench. Why do it? Why antagonise a manager who you know fine well is a sucker for discipline??

 

I suppose you'll say that Souness should have passed it off and just got on with it, yeah? Do you think Keegan would have done the same? Below is an extract from KK's autobiography:

 

We were constantly under the scrutiny of every section of the media and everything that happened in those final weeks was magnified. One such moment was an incident involving John Beresford against Aston Villa at St James's Park on 14 April. It wouldn't have occurred if John had been a right back that day, or if we'd been kicking the other way, because he would have been on the opposite side of the pitch from me and out of earshot. Full-backs and wingers, when they are operating on the same side as the dugout, are always being asked to pass on messages and instructions as they are nearest to the manager. They also tend to be in the firing line of any stick that is flying about, and that is what happened to John that day.

 

He was one of my first signings and had been with me throughout, but that did not make him immune to criticism. Fifteen minutes into the game I was a little unhappy with his defending, and as he came jogging past I shouted some instructions to him. He had good pace, got forward well and used the ball well in the first two thirds but tended to take unneccessary chances, something we were always telling him about, and he was doing it again. In the heat of the moment he turned around and told me where to go in no uncertain terms. What made it worse was that in addition to the staff we also had alongside us on a special bench the youngsters who clean out the dressing rooms and some guests. None of them could have misheard what he said to me. Immediately I turned to Robbie Elliott and told him he would be on within a minute. By this time John had realised the mistake he had made. He knew me better than anyone, having been with me for so long, and he was well aware that he could not say something like that to me and get away with it. I won't have players talk to me like that or show disrespect - I make no excuses for that - and what was more, on this occasion he was setting a bad example to young players, who need to be taught that that sort of thing is not on. I know for a fact he regrets it. As Robbie Elliott warmed up John came past the bench again and apologised profusely. It cut no ice. 'You're off, pal,' I replied.

 

Terry McDermott knew that I was serious. He told me afterwards that I have a habit of calling people 'pal' when I am really angry with them. Luckily, we went on to win the game 1-0 through a Les Ferdinand goal. Had we lost because of that substitution I would have been destroyed, but that prospect didn't deter me. Beresford was full of remorse and came into my office afterwards to reiterate his apology. Unmoved, I replied that it was too late for all those others in the paddock to hear it. He took that remark to heart and said sorry to everyone of his own volition through the newspapers. I forgave him then, but announced at the same time that John Beresford would be brought back only when he warranted it. As it transpired, his replacement played so well that he kept the berth for the rest of the season. I wasn't being vindictive: Robbie deserved to stay, and John had only himself to blame for losing his place.

 

Taking that into account, I put it to you that had Keegan been the manager that day at Charlton last season, he'd have reacted along the same lines as Souness did. The main difference between two incidents is undeniably the player. Beresford showed remorse, apologised immediately and then publically and overall, knew he was in the wrong. Bellamy to this day will think he was right and justified - he wasn't.

 

Whatever we think of Souness, and yes I can stand the bloke - he deserves the respect of his players and if they don't offer that, they deserve to suffer the consequences.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

I see your point Craig, I think back then KK had a lot of respect from players. His man management was good, but he also knew when to put his foot down, this incident and the one with Venison and Howey are good examples. They tried to take the piss and being a passionate bloke he took it quite personally. Forgetting the should Bellamy have gone/come back argument, I would say under KK he wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes.

[NJS 4411]

Good point Craig but the reply will be "Keegan wouldn't have been stupid enough to have substituted him. Ever.".

 

You can't win against the Bellamy is God/Souness is Satan crowd.

[luckypierre 0]

am I the anyone who sees them as two completely different scenarios?

 

Bellamy was unlucky it got caught on TV and blown out of all proportion. Im sure most players have done something similar. Now if Bellamy had walked off and called him whatever in front of the whole dugout and crowd then that would have been comparable. I thought Souness downplayed it too at the time but to be honest I cant remember.

[skhwoody 0]

Maybe i am in the minority here, but i do not want Keegan back at the club. Another backward step, a la Dagliesh.

 

Yes Keegan did a spectacular job, and turned this club totally around, and i was absolutley gutted when he went. But the sad fact is, he as a manager is never quite good enough, he took us as far as he could, and bearing a little luck on our part we almost but did not quite make it.

 

To get him back in would be a worse decision than initially taking on Souness in the first place.

 

With England, and Man City he has been shown to be out of date and out of his depth.

 

I think this time the decision for the next manager is probably going to be one of the most important decisions this club has ever took and i for one want to see an appointment which will see us move onto the next level, ie consistency and improvement, i do not see any of that with Keegan on board and see all this as a massive backward step, i hope to go this is all wrong because i fear for the future of this club if it is not......

[Howaythetoon 0]

With England, and Man City he has been shown to be out of date and out of his depth.

 

With England, he was always going to be on a loser there, wrong manager, wrong time. He took over when England were going through a transitional period, half the team were coming to the end of their international careers, the other half just breaking through. Everyone expected KK to replicate what he did at Newcastle. Basically he was on a hiding to nothing and fair play to him for holding his hands up live on telly and saying "hey, I'm not good enough at this moment in time". Many would have just stayed on, not KK. He's too honest.

 

As for the Man City job, had it been another name who took them up, consolidated and then left them in good shape, that name would have been hailed by many. But because it's KK, he failed. Did he heck as like, he has given Man City something they haven't had for 10-15 years - Premiership consolidation. People point to the money he spent, he recouped most of that back and in Wright-Phillips, it was Keegan who turned him around, the player admits as much himself. Following his sale, you could say KK's net spending was zero, he's actually in profit.

 

I see no difference in the job KK did at Man City than the one Curbishley has done at Charlton or what O'Neill did at Leicester.

 

That club was very much like Newcastle. Going nowhere fast. He's a miracle worker and a much better manager than people give him credit form, certainly better than the likes of Souness and as for his methods being outdated, he's one of the most progressive thinkers in the game, what some are doing now, he was doing 10 years ago at Newcastle.

 

I think this time the decision for the next manager is probably going to be one of the most important decisions this club has ever took and i for one want to see an appointment which will see us move onto the next level, ie consistency and improvement

 

Couldn't agree more, if we don't get it right this time, we never will and those trusted with getting it right can fuck off with Souness if they don't at least attempt to bring in a manager that has the qualities we need.

[Howaythelads 0]

I don't think Dyer has put a foot wrong since the "i'm not playing on the wing" carry on at Middlesbrough last year. Ergo, he cannot be considered a 'disruptuive influence' under the management of Graeme Souness.

 

Bellamy knew what Souness was all about before he came and still he chose to push his luck. He was like the kid who was told not to touch something only to go and do so the minute the adult's back was turned.

 

What often gets forgotten is that in the early games under Souness, Bellamy was on fire and as a result, Souness was playing him regularly up front. We then had the incident at Charlton when he was substituted just after the hour and he was quite clearly shown to mouth "fucking prick" in the direction of the bench. Why do it? Why antagonise a manager who you know fine well is a sucker for discipline??

 

I suppose you'll say that Souness should have passed it off and just got on with it, yeah? Do you think Keegan would have done the same? Below is an extract from KK's autobiography:

 

We were constantly under the scrutiny of every section of the media and everything that happened in those final weeks was magnified. One such moment was an incident involving John Beresford against Aston Villa at St James's Park on 14 April. It wouldn't have occurred if John had been a right back that day, or if we'd been kicking the other way, because he would have been on the opposite side of the pitch from me and out of earshot. Full-backs and wingers, when they are operating on the same side as the dugout, are always being asked to pass on messages and instructions as they are nearest to the manager. They also tend to be in the firing line of any stick that is flying about, and that is what happened to John that day.

 

He was one of my first signings and had been with me throughout, but that did not make him immune to criticism. Fifteen minutes into the game I was a little unhappy with his defending, and as he came jogging past I shouted some instructions to him. He had good pace, got forward well and used the ball well in the first two thirds but tended to take unneccessary chances, something we were always telling him about, and he was doing it again. In the heat of the moment he turned around and told me where to go in no uncertain terms. What made it worse was that in addition to the staff we also had alongside us on a special bench the youngsters who clean out the dressing rooms and some guests. None of them could have misheard what he said to me. Immediately I turned to Robbie Elliott and told him he would be on within a minute. By this time John had realised the mistake he had made. He knew me better than anyone, having been with me for so long, and he was well aware that he could not say something like that to me and get away with it. I won't have players talk to me like that or show disrespect - I make no excuses for that - and what was more, on this occasion he was setting a bad example to young players, who need to be taught that that sort of thing is not on. I know for a fact he regrets it. As Robbie Elliott warmed up John came past the bench again and apologised profusely. It cut no ice. 'You're off, pal,' I replied.

 

Terry McDermott knew that I was serious. He told me afterwards that I have a habit of calling people 'pal' when I am really angry with them. Luckily, we went on to win the game 1-0 through a Les Ferdinand goal. Had we lost because of that substitution I would have been destroyed, but that prospect didn't deter me. Beresford was full of remorse and came into my office afterwards to reiterate his apology. Unmoved, I replied that it was too late for all those others in the paddock to hear it. He took that remark to heart and said sorry to everyone of his own volition through the newspapers. I forgave him then, but announced at the same time that John Beresford would be brought back only when he warranted it. As it transpired, his replacement played so well that he kept the berth for the rest of the season. I wasn't being vindictive: Robbie deserved to stay, and John had only himself to blame for losing his place.

 

Taking that into account, I put it to you that had Keegan been the manager that day at Charlton last season, he'd have reacted along the same lines as Souness did. The main difference between two incidents is undeniably the player. Beresford showed remorse, apologised immediately and then publically and overall, knew he was in the wrong. Bellamy to this day will think he was right and justified - he wasn't.

 

Whatever we think of Souness, and yes I can stand the bloke - he deserves the respect of his players and if they don't offer that, they deserve to suffer the consequences.

64714[/snapback]

 

Only 2 things.

 

The incident you mention relating to Dyer is worse than anything Bellamy did.

 

Second, Souness doesn't deserve any respect from the players, he has to earn it.

Edited December 6, 2005 by Howaythelads

[Kid Dynamite 7170]

Maybe i am in the minority here, but i do not want Keegan back at the club.  Another backward step, a la Dagliesh. 

 

Yes Keegan did a spectacular job, and turned this club totally around, and i was absolutley gutted when he went.  But the sad fact is, he as a manager is never quite good enough, he took us as far as he could, and bearing a little luck on our part we almost but did not quite make it.

 

To get him back in would be a worse decision than initially taking on Souness in the first place.

 

With England, and Man City he has been shown to be out of date and out of his depth. 

 

I think this time the decision for the next manager is probably going to be one of the most important decisions this club has ever took and i for one want to see an appointment which will see us move onto the next level, ie consistency and improvement, i do not see any of that with Keegan on board and see all this as a massive backward step, i hope to go this is all wrong because i fear for the future of this club if it is not......

64765[/snapback]

 

Totally agree. all this stuff about setting up man city as a club for the future? they are a mid table side at best. are people forgetting he scrapped our academy too? setting us back ten years, the academy facilities put in place when bobby was here should have been in 10years ago.

 

I fucking hope he comes back now so as soon as we lose 2 games on the trot he takes a huff and walks out.

 

A lot of people on here are choosing choice quotes from his book. what about the part when he says he offered his resignation 4 or 5 times in as many years. must fucking love us, just the sort of determination we need, if that was the way our team thought shearer and given would have been away years ago.

 

hes done fuck all and won fuck all in 10years! he was good once, so fuck, so was souness.

 

and please dont start with the whole bring bellars back theme again. hes gone, good riddance, how often since him and robert left have we had our names splashed across the papers saying that 'we are shit', 'shearer is a git', 'souness doesnt understand me' etc etc.

[LeazesMag 0]

Bellamy was wrong to get involved in the chair incident, and the Cardiff nightclub.

 

I'm not making excuses for it when I say that Dyer has been involved a lot more unsavoury incidents than this.

 

As have other players at other clubs, Rio Ferdinand for one - who is still at manu.

 

Bellamy WAS a catalyst for the rise of the club on the field - where it matters - a proper manager would have helped him focus better. No one is perfect, we all have personality traits. The simple fact Craig is that Souness didn't kick Bellamy out because he was a "disruptive influence", he kicked him out because he crossed him personally. The presence of Dyer at the club proves that without any doubt or discussion whatsoever. Hence, Souness doesn't put the club first, he puts himself first.

You may have wanted Bellamy out before Souness came, thats your choice, but until we do better without him there is no justification for letting him go, especially when you weigh up the financial cost to the club that will be involved when all the dust is settled and we reach the Champions League again, if ever.

 

Is it worth it ? This is the question.

 

Bad, incompetent management all round in my view. But some of us also said this about Souness when he was appointed at Newcastle, and before.

64702[/snapback]

 

Totally agree with you there (as i always do on the Bellamy issue)

64709[/snapback]

 

Dyer hasn't been a disruptive influence whilst Souness was at the club. Bellamy was and he got turfed out for it. Perhaps Souness was rash - maybe even he regrets getting rid of Bellamy - but Bellamy fully deserved to go for the way he carried on.

64710[/snapback]

 

nowt like pissing in the street and fighting with your team mate on the pitch then

 

Bellamys nightclub and chair throwing were however, before Souness arrived ....

[LeazesMag 0]

I don't think Dyer has put a foot wrong since the "i'm not playing on the wing" carry on at Middlesbrough last year. Ergo, he cannot be considered a 'disruptuive influence' under the management of Graeme Souness.

 

Bellamy knew what Souness was all about before he came and still he chose to push his luck. He was like the kid who was told not to touch something only to go and do so the minute the adult's back was turned.

 

What often gets forgotten is that in the early games under Souness, Bellamy was on fire and as a result, Souness was playing him regularly up front. We then had the incident at Charlton when he was substituted just after the hour and he was quite clearly shown to mouth "fucking prick" in the direction of the bench. Why do it? Why antagonise a manager who you know fine well is a sucker for discipline??

 

I suppose you'll say that Souness should have passed it off and just got on with it, yeah? Do you think Keegan would have done the same? Below is an extract from KK's autobiography:

 

We were constantly under the scrutiny of every section of the media and everything that happened in those final weeks was magnified. One such moment was an incident involving John Beresford against Aston Villa at St James's Park on 14 April. It wouldn't have occurred if John had been a right back that day, or if we'd been kicking the other way, because he would have been on the opposite side of the pitch from me and out of earshot. Full-backs and wingers, when they are operating on the same side as the dugout, are always being asked to pass on messages and instructions as they are nearest to the manager. They also tend to be in the firing line of any stick that is flying about, and that is what happened to John that day.

 

He was one of my first signings and had been with me throughout, but that did not make him immune to criticism. Fifteen minutes into the game I was a little unhappy with his defending, and as he came jogging past I shouted some instructions to him. He had good pace, got forward well and used the ball well in the first two thirds but tended to take unneccessary chances, something we were always telling him about, and he was doing it again. In the heat of the moment he turned around and told me where to go in no uncertain terms. What made it worse was that in addition to the staff we also had alongside us on a special bench the youngsters who clean out the dressing rooms and some guests. None of them could have misheard what he said to me. Immediately I turned to Robbie Elliott and told him he would be on within a minute. By this time John had realised the mistake he had made. He knew me better than anyone, having been with me for so long, and he was well aware that he could not say something like that to me and get away with it. I won't have players talk to me like that or show disrespect - I make no excuses for that - and what was more, on this occasion he was setting a bad example to young players, who need to be taught that that sort of thing is not on. I know for a fact he regrets it. As Robbie Elliott warmed up John came past the bench again and apologised profusely. It cut no ice. 'You're off, pal,' I replied.

 

Terry McDermott knew that I was serious. He told me afterwards that I have a habit of calling people 'pal' when I am really angry with them. Luckily, we went on to win the game 1-0 through a Les Ferdinand goal. Had we lost because of that substitution I would have been destroyed, but that prospect didn't deter me. Beresford was full of remorse and came into my office afterwards to reiterate his apology. Unmoved, I replied that it was too late for all those others in the paddock to hear it. He took that remark to heart and said sorry to everyone of his own volition through the newspapers. I forgave him then, but announced at the same time that John Beresford would be brought back only when he warranted it. As it transpired, his replacement played so well that he kept the berth for the rest of the season. I wasn't being vindictive: Robbie deserved to stay, and John had only himself to blame for losing his place.

 

Taking that into account, I put it to you that had Keegan been the manager that day at Charlton last season, he'd have reacted along the same lines as Souness did. The main difference between two incidents is undeniably the player. Beresford showed remorse, apologised immediately and then publically and overall, knew he was in the wrong. Bellamy to this day will think he was right and justified - he wasn't.

 

Whatever we think of Souness, and yes I can stand the bloke - he deserves the respect of his players and if they don't offer that, they deserve to suffer the consequences.

64714[/snapback]

 

For Dyer, see the post to Gemmill, and note that the 2 incidents regarding Bellamy were before Souness came, whereas Dyers were not. And I don't think Bellamy calling Souness a prick is any way a disruptive influence. Why do you ? It's simply an insult directed towards his manager, and as I said, Souness puts this, his ego, before the club, if that were not the case then Dyer, and Bowyer, would also be gone.

 

If Keegan had sold Bellamy, I would have trusted Keegan, because he proved he put the club first, and he exercised better judgement at buying and selling players, and the timing of buying and selling players.

 

It's what happens on the field, is where you have real influence. Where it matters.

 

There are plenty of players over the years who haven't respected Souness, why is that do you think ? Any why do you think he has a right to it anyway, he doesn't.

[NJS 4411]

I think Keegan's vindictive sale of Barry Venison was a lot lower than Souness' sale of Bellamy.

[Craig 6700]

am I the anyone who sees them as two completely different scenarios?

 

Bellamy was unlucky it got caught on TV and blown out of all proportion. Im sure most players have done something similar. Now if Bellamy had walked off and called him whatever in front of the whole dugout and crowd then that would have been comparable. I thought Souness downplayed it too at the time but  to be honest I cant remember.

64764[/snapback]

 

Unlucky??

 

You can the manager a 'fucking prick', you call him a 'fucking prick' whether it's seen by the manager or later on camera. The whole TV audience saw what he called him (arguably worse than the Beresford situation).

 

Most players probably have done something similar, most will have got a bollocking for it, most would accept it.......not Craig Bellamy though!

[LeazesMag 0]

am I the anyone who sees them as two completely different scenarios?

 

Bellamy was unlucky it got caught on TV and blown out of all proportion. Im sure most players have done something similar. Now if Bellamy had walked off and called him whatever in front of the whole dugout and crowd then that would have been comparable. I thought Souness downplayed it too at the time but  to be honest I cant remember.

64764[/snapback]

 

Unlucky??

 

You can the manager a 'fucking prick', you call him a 'fucking prick' whether it's seen by the manager or later on camera. The whole TV audience saw what he called him (arguably worse than the Beresford situation).

 

Most players probably have done something similar, most will have got a bollocking for it, most would accept it.......not Craig Bellamy though!

65017[/snapback]

 

he called him a prick, so what ? He WAS a prick !

 

Example of Souness' hypocrisy is the time he subbed Dwight Yorke for Blackburn and they stood arguing on the touchline, Souness said after the game he wanted players in his team who got upset when they were subbed, as all players should want to play.

 

Explain how you see this .....

[Craig 6700]

I don't think Dyer has put a foot wrong since the "i'm not playing on the wing" carry on at Middlesbrough last year. Ergo, he cannot be considered a 'disruptuive influence' under the management of Graeme Souness.

 

Bellamy knew what Souness was all about before he came and still he chose to push his luck. He was like the kid who was told not to touch something only to go and do so the minute the adult's back was turned.

 

What often gets forgotten is that in the early games under Souness, Bellamy was on fire and as a result, Souness was playing him regularly up front. We then had the incident at Charlton when he was substituted just after the hour and he was quite clearly shown to mouth "fucking prick" in the direction of the bench. Why do it? Why antagonise a manager who you know fine well is a sucker for discipline??

 

I suppose you'll say that Souness should have passed it off and just got on with it, yeah? Do you think Keegan would have done the same? Below is an extract from KK's autobiography:

 

We were constantly under the scrutiny of every section of the media and everything that happened in those final weeks was magnified. One such moment was an incident involving John Beresford against Aston Villa at St James's Park on 14 April. It wouldn't have occurred if John had been a right back that day, or if we'd been kicking the other way, because he would have been on the opposite side of the pitch from me and out of earshot. Full-backs and wingers, when they are operating on the same side as the dugout, are always being asked to pass on messages and instructions as they are nearest to the manager. They also tend to be in the firing line of any stick that is flying about, and that is what happened to John that day.

 

He was one of my first signings and had been with me throughout, but that did not make him immune to criticism. Fifteen minutes into the game I was a little unhappy with his defending, and as he came jogging past I shouted some instructions to him. He had good pace, got forward well and used the ball well in the first two thirds but tended to take unneccessary chances, something we were always telling him about, and he was doing it again. In the heat of the moment he turned around and told me where to go in no uncertain terms. What made it worse was that in addition to the staff we also had alongside us on a special bench the youngsters who clean out the dressing rooms and some guests. None of them could have misheard what he said to me. Immediately I turned to Robbie Elliott and told him he would be on within a minute. By this time John had realised the mistake he had made. He knew me better than anyone, having been with me for so long, and he was well aware that he could not say something like that to me and get away with it. I won't have players talk to me like that or show disrespect - I make no excuses for that - and what was more, on this occasion he was setting a bad example to young players, who need to be taught that that sort of thing is not on. I know for a fact he regrets it. As Robbie Elliott warmed up John came past the bench again and apologised profusely. It cut no ice. 'You're off, pal,' I replied.

 

Terry McDermott knew that I was serious. He told me afterwards that I have a habit of calling people 'pal' when I am really angry with them. Luckily, we went on to win the game 1-0 through a Les Ferdinand goal. Had we lost because of that substitution I would have been destroyed, but that prospect didn't deter me. Beresford was full of remorse and came into my office afterwards to reiterate his apology. Unmoved, I replied that it was too late for all those others in the paddock to hear it. He took that remark to heart and said sorry to everyone of his own volition through the newspapers. I forgave him then, but announced at the same time that John Beresford would be brought back only when he warranted it. As it transpired, his replacement played so well that he kept the berth for the rest of the season. I wasn't being vindictive: Robbie deserved to stay, and John had only himself to blame for losing his place.

 

Taking that into account, I put it to you that had Keegan been the manager that day at Charlton last season, he'd have reacted along the same lines as Souness did. The main difference between two incidents is undeniably the player. Beresford showed remorse, apologised immediately and then publically and overall, knew he was in the wrong. Bellamy to this day will think he was right and justified - he wasn't.

 

Whatever we think of Souness, and yes I can stand the bloke - he deserves the respect of his players and if they don't offer that, they deserve to suffer the consequences.

64714[/snapback]

 

Only 2 things.

 

The incident you mention relating to Dyer is worse than anything Bellamy did.

 

Second, Souness doesn't deserve any respect from the players, he has to earn it.

64830[/snapback]

 

So in the working world, do you not respect your manager until he's earned it?? That was the main problem at NUFC - there was no discipline. Souness was NOT the right man to take over, I agree. But a manager, however shit should have respect from his players.

 

A better example perhaps is does a parent have to earn respect from their children or is it something to be expected?

 

The Dyer incident - I don't agree. Dyer redeemed himself (as Beresford did) by shoming remorse and apologising - Bellamy didn't. BIG difference. All it would have taken was for CB to publically apologise and the matter would have been dealt with and he'd still be here.

[Craig 6700]

I don't think Bellamy calling Souness a prick is any way a disruptive influence. Why do you ? It's simply an insult directed towards his manager.

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You're displaying examples of exactly what is wrong with society today - not enough respect!

 

There's management at my employers who I can't stand the sight off, however I accept that they are in a position of authority in comparison to me and therefore I extend them the courtesy and respect they deserve. If I called them a prick, I'd expect to be sacked for gross misconduct. Even more so if it was seen by others.

[Craig 6700]

am I the anyone who sees them as two completely different scenarios?

 

Bellamy was unlucky it got caught on TV and blown out of all proportion. Im sure most players have done something similar. Now if Bellamy had walked off and called him whatever in front of the whole dugout and crowd then that would have been comparable. I thought Souness downplayed it too at the time but  to be honest I cant remember.

64764[/snapback]

 

Unlucky??

 

You can the manager a 'fucking prick', you call him a 'fucking prick' whether it's seen by the manager or later on camera. The whole TV audience saw what he called him (arguably worse than the Beresford situation).

 

Most players probably have done something similar, most will have got a bollocking for it, most would accept it.......not Craig Bellamy though!

65017[/snapback]

 

he called him a prick, so what ? He WAS a prick !

 

Example of Souness' hypocrisy is the time he subbed Dwight Yorke for Blackburn and they stood arguing on the touchline, Souness said after the game he wanted players in his team who got upset when they were subbed, as all players should want to play.

 

Explain how you see this .....

65022[/snapback]

 

What has that got to do with Craig Bellamy?

 

I've never said I'm a fan of Souness - quite the opposite, but because Souness is a shit manager and doesn't always conduct himself the way he should, it doesn't excuse Bellamy for what he hid.

 

We all know Souness is a prick! But if he is tell him, it should be behind closed doors.

[Gemmill 46030]

Leazes mate, what sort of an argument is "So what if he called Souness a prick, when he is one?". Are you advocating Bellamy behaving in any way he pleases towards Souness and excusing it on the basis that you don't like Souness.

[snakehips 0]

Is it inconceivable, I wonder, for Leazes to ever admit that Craig Bellamy is a big-mouthed, ill-disciplined, whinging and disrespectful prick??

 

He has pace. He has skill. He can play football. I was also one of those who was happy when he signed for us as I was aware of his potential (after working in E.Anglia and speaking to Norwich fans - oooooh, comparisons with someone on here and Luque ). However, it is only after seeing him and reading regularly about him that it became obvious that the boy has problems.

 

Things are very quiet at Blackburn regarding CB and I'm sure the point will be made to prove that a good manager can keep him happy, but I wonder whether things will stay that way? Somehow I doubt it. Now then, another Toontastic Exclusive!: CB will cause some problems at Blackburn in the future.

[Howaythetoon 0]

Totally agree. all this stuff about setting up man city as a club for the future? they are a mid table side at best. are people forgetting he scrapped our academy too? setting us back ten years, the academy facilities put in place when bobby was here should have been in 10years ago.

 

I fucking hope he comes back now so as soon as we lose 2 games on the trot he takes a huff and walks out.

 

A lot of people on here are choosing choice quotes from his book. what about the part when he says he offered his resignation 4 or 5 times in as many years. must fucking love us, just the sort of determination we need, if that was the way our team thought shearer and given would have been away years ago.

 

hes done fuck all and won fuck all in 10years! he was good once, so fuck, so was souness.

 

and please dont start with the whole bring bellars back theme again. hes gone, good riddance, how often since him and robert left have we had our names splashed across the papers saying that 'we are shit', 'shearer is a git', 'souness doesnt understand me' etc etc.

64922[/snapback]

 

Dear me...

 

 

If he didn't threaten to walk out so many times, we'd never have made it. Short memories...

[Guest alex]

I'd have KK back in a shot like.

[Craig 6700]

Totally agree. all this stuff about setting up man city as a club for the future? they are a mid table side at best. are people forgetting he scrapped our academy too? setting us back ten years, the academy facilities put in place when bobby was here should have been in 10years ago.

 

I fucking hope he comes back now so as soon as we lose 2 games on the trot he takes a huff and walks out.

 

A lot of people on here are choosing choice quotes from his book. what about the part when he says he offered his resignation 4 or 5 times in as many years. must fucking love us, just the sort of determination we need, if that was the way our team thought shearer and given would have been away years ago.

 

hes done fuck all and won fuck all in 10years! he was good once, so fuck, so was souness.

 

and please dont start with the whole bring bellars back theme again. hes gone, good riddance, how often since him and robert left have we had our names splashed across the papers saying that 'we are shit', 'shearer is a git', 'souness doesnt understand me' etc etc.

64922[/snapback]

 

Dear me...

 

 

If he didn't threaten to walk out so many times, we'd never have made it. Short memories...

65081[/snapback]

 

I may have reservations about KK coming back, but I agree with HTT here...

 

J69 man, don't talk so much shite, the threat of resignation from Keegan was to give the directors a kick up the arse to move the club in the right direction!

[Guest alex]

If everyone involved in NUFC loved the club and showed as much passion and commitment as Keegan the player and Keegan the manager, I don't think we'd have too many problems.

[Howaythetoon 0]

I'd have him back but not as a manager. Not ideally anyway.