Meenzer 15740 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 What (if anything) do you read, Leazes? Perhaps you could provide us pinko lefties not you too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 The Sun then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15740 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 What (if anything) do you read, Leazes? Perhaps you could provide us pinko lefties not you too I'm surprised you thought that highly of me, to be honest. Care to answer the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 (edited) So answer the questions basically. Also, unless you can provide me documented proof that the plight of women in Afghanistan was part of the mission's objectives, stated before the mission started, then discussing the outcomes for women now in Afghan society as part of ana assessment of the \rights and wrongs' of the war is, i'm afraid to say, very much post-hoc moralising. Its not objectionable at all but should not be part of an argument that clarifies what the 'just cause' was. Ok then Chez, here we go, I'll keep it brief: "What exactly are we doing there and why? So what was the justification for going to war in Afghanistan then KSA?" 1. What exactly are we doing? - The most pertinent goal of the intervention was: to disrupt terrorist networks in Afghanistan to degrade their ability to launch international terrorist attacks. Why? - 9-11 2. What exactly are we doing? - Establishing a stable government in Afghanistan. Why? - The Taliban government that had established itself over the 96-01 period coalesced with Al Quaeda forces. Bin Laden's funds allowed them to build extensive training camp facilities; most of the 9-11 hijackers passed through such camps in Afghanistan. Not only did the Taliban have majority control over Afghanistan, by 2001 any resistance to them was on its last legs: shortly before the intervention some of the most senior figures of the United Front were killed by suicide bombers. Without intervention, it is clear that the Taliban/Al Quaeda forces would have established 100% control of the country. Osama Bin Laden roamed freely with his brigade in the country, regularly massacring people and filling mass graves. It was more than a mere 'terrorist safe haven'. Given that the chief interests of the jihadist is to reestablish a Caliphate and kill infidels (ie us), allowing them to establish such control in a key region was unacceptable in the eyes of most Western governments. Afghanistan shares a border with Pakistan - a country with a nuclear arsenal - and the Taliban/Al Quaeda forces had a desire to take over that country; they would have had a real chance of doing so had the intervention not taken place. To me it seems the prospect and potential result of inaction in this case was not a route that could be justified. If you feel we should have given the Taliban/Al Quaeda coalition the benefit of the doubt in this instance so be it, it's not something I am capable of doing personally. I'll leave it at that for now, but with regard to your other points: Although an improvement in the human rights situation in Afghanistan was inevitable given the unprecedented brutality of the Taliban, I have never stated that that was the motivation of the intervention or part of the just-cause, merely it has been a by-product of the NATO mission. Given that this thread cited an instance of brutality towards a woman, I thought it would be a relevant time to bring that up. You're a smarter person than me and you study cheesy-economics so I would appreciate it if you wouldn't continue to misconstrue my posts when I've made it clear that that wasn't related to the motivations for the action in Afghanistan. Edited October 20, 2010 by Kevin S. Assilleekunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 What (if anything) do you read, Leazes? Perhaps you could provide us pinko lefties not you too I'm surprised you thought that highly of me, to be honest. Care to answer the question? what sort of books do I read ? Not left wing politically-slanted books ..... ditto left wing politically-slanted newspapers either. I've made a few posts in the "what are you reading" thread...politically, you could just say I have my views and reading a book by someone out of touch with reality isn't going to change them. What sort of books do you read ? I'm surprised some people on here actually have time for anything, the time they spend on here. They can't be reading too much, or working, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 So answer the questions basically. Also, unless you can provide me documented proof that the plight of women in Afghanistan was part of the mission's objectives, stated before the mission started, then discussing the outcomes for women now in Afghan society as part of ana assessment of the \rights and wrongs' of the war is, i'm afraid to say, very much post-hoc moralising. Its not objectionable at all but should not be part of an argument that clarifies what the 'just cause' was. Ok then Chez, here we go, I'll keep it brief: "What exactly are we doing there and why? So what was the justification for going to war in Afghanistan then KSA?" 1. What exactly are we doing? - The most pertinent goal of the intervention was: to disrupt terrorist networks in Afghanistan to degrade their ability to launch international terrorist attacks. Why? - 9-11 2. What exactly are we doing? - Establishing a stable government in Afghanistan. Why? - The Taliban government that had established itself over the 96-01 period coalesced with Al Quaeda forces. Bin Laden's funds allowed them to build extensive training camp facilities; most of the 9-11 hijackers passed through such camps in Afghanistan. Not only did the Taliban have majority control over Afghanistan, by 2001 any resistance to them was on its last legs: shortly before the intervention some of the most senior figures of the United Front were killed by suicide bombers. Without intervention, it is clear that the Taliban/Al Quaeda forces would have established 100% control of the country. Osama Bin Laden roamed freely with his brigade in the country, regularly massacring people and filling mass graves. It was more than a mere 'terrorist safe haven'. Given that the chief interests of the jihadist is to reestablish a Caliphate and kill infidels (ie us), allowing them to establish such control in a key region was unacceptable in the eyes of most Western governments. Afghanistan shares a border with Pakistan - a country with a nuclear arsenal - and the Taliban/Al Quaeda forces had a desire to take over that country; they would have had a real chance of doing so had the intervention not taken place. To me it seems the prospect and potential result of inaction in this case was not a route that could be justified. If you feel we should have given the Taliban/Al Quaeda coalition the benefit of the doubt in this instance so be it, it's not something I am capable of doing personally. I'll leave it at that for now, but with regard to your other points: Although an improvement in the human rights situation in Afghanistan was inevitable given the unprecedented brutality of the Taliban, I have never stated that that was the motivation of the intervention or part of the just-cause, merely it has been a by-product of the NATO mission. Given that this thread cited an instance of brutality towards a woman, I thought it would be a relevant time to bring that up. You're a smarter person than me and you study cheesy-economics so I would appreciate it if you wouldn't continue to misconstrue my posts when I've made it clear that that wasn't related to the motivations for the action in Afghanistan. Fair assesment. I'll have a look at it later in detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooner 243 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 What (if anything) do you read, Leazes? Perhaps you could provide us pinko lefties not you too I'm surprised you thought that highly of me, to be honest. Care to answer the question? what sort of books do I read ? Not left wing politically-slanted books ..... ditto left wing politically-slanted newspapers either. I've made a few posts in the "what are you reading" thread...politically, you could just say I have my views and reading a book by someone out of touch with reality isn't going to change them. What sort of books do you read ? I'm surprised some people on here actually have time for anything, the time they spend on here. They can't be reading too much, or working, that's for sure. why not? bit of an ivory tower way of going about things no? at least if you read view points contrary to your own it would give you a better understanding of the whole picture of things. I've read lots of books/articles/newspapers with views that i feel fall outside of my personal views/opinions. knowledge is power. read everything IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15740 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Doesn't work that way though. Only pinko lefties have to read anything out of their comfort zone. Once you know you're right, you know you're right. I'm surprised Leazes has to ask what a pinko lefty like me reads, though, since his every post on the subject is based on the safe assumption that he knows exactly what his quarry takes in reading-wise. You'd think he'd be more certain about such matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 What (if anything) do you read, Leazes? Perhaps you could provide us pinko lefties not you too I'm surprised you thought that highly of me, to be honest. Care to answer the question? what sort of books do I read ? Not left wing politically-slanted books ..... ditto left wing politically-slanted newspapers either. I've made a few posts in the "what are you reading" thread...politically, you could just say I have my views and reading a book by someone out of touch with reality isn't going to change them. What sort of books do you read ? I'm surprised some people on here actually have time for anything, the time they spend on here. They can't be reading too much, or working, that's for sure. why not? bit of an ivory tower way of going about things no? at least if you read view points contrary to your own it would give you a better understanding of the whole picture of things. I've read lots of books/articles/newspapers with views that i feel fall outside of my personal views/opinions. knowledge is power. read everything IMO. Well. Let's put it this way. I did once. But now, I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 Doesn't work that way though. Only pinko lefties have to read anything out of their comfort zone. Once you know you're right, you know you're right. I'm surprised Leazes has to ask what a pinko lefty like me reads, though, since his every post on the subject is based on the safe assumption that he knows exactly what his quarry takes in reading-wise. You'd think he'd be more certain about such matters. http://www.geoffreport.com/wp/2006/11/09/r...e-pinko-leftie/ "Left Wing Identified as: progressive, liberal (small L), etc. Parties: Labor Party historically (Australia), Greens (Australia), Democrats (Australia and USA) Insults to use against Left Wingers: communist, hippy, pinko-lefty , idealist, bleeding heart So there you go, pick your side and forever be stuck with the label…." Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooner 243 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 What (if anything) do you read, Leazes? Perhaps you could provide us pinko lefties not you too I'm surprised you thought that highly of me, to be honest. Care to answer the question? what sort of books do I read ? Not left wing politically-slanted books ..... ditto left wing politically-slanted newspapers either. I've made a few posts in the "what are you reading" thread...politically, you could just say I have my views and reading a book by someone out of touch with reality isn't going to change them. What sort of books do you read ? I'm surprised some people on here actually have time for anything, the time they spend on here. They can't be reading too much, or working, that's for sure. why not? bit of an ivory tower way of going about things no? at least if you read view points contrary to your own it would give you a better understanding of the whole picture of things. I've read lots of books/articles/newspapers with views that i feel fall outside of my personal views/opinions. knowledge is power. read everything IMO. Well. Let's put it this way. I did once. But now, I don't. thats it? one time? ...to each thier own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22187 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Complete tangent but I saw a woman wearing the full hijab yesterday (the one where only the eyes are visible) while driving her car. Got me to thinking that it must conflict with British road traffic laws. Probably the spirit rather than the letter I mean, but if ever there was a loophole for speeders, that's what they want to be wearing. just fucking wrong as well innit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22016 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Complete tangent but I saw a woman wearing the full hijab yesterday (the one where only the eyes are visible) while driving her car. Got me to thinking that it must conflict with British road traffic laws. Probably the spirit rather than the letter I mean, but if ever there was a loophole for speeders, that's what they want to be wearing. just fucking wrong as well innit Sure it is illegal to drive with a Burqa on in some countries - wasn't a woman arrested in Italy for this recently? Also illegal in Saudi, for different reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 What (if anything) do you read, Leazes? Perhaps you could provide us pinko lefties not you too I'm surprised you thought that highly of me, to be honest. Care to answer the question? what sort of books do I read ? Not left wing politically-slanted books ..... ditto left wing politically-slanted newspapers either. I've made a few posts in the "what are you reading" thread...politically, you could just say I have my views and reading a book by someone out of touch with reality isn't going to change them. What sort of books do you read ? I'm surprised some people on here actually have time for anything, the time they spend on here. They can't be reading too much, or working, that's for sure. why not? bit of an ivory tower way of going about things no? at least if you read view points contrary to your own it would give you a better understanding of the whole picture of things. I've read lots of books/articles/newspapers with views that i feel fall outside of my personal views/opinions. knowledge is power. read everything IMO. Well. Let's put it this way. I did once. But now, I don't. thats it? one time? ...to each thier own. you mean, each to their own you don't read the right material, obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 What (if anything) do you read, Leazes? Perhaps you could provide us pinko lefties not you too I'm surprised you thought that highly of me, to be honest. Care to answer the question? what sort of books do I read ? Not left wing politically-slanted books ..... ditto left wing politically-slanted newspapers either. I've made a few posts in the "what are you reading" thread...politically, you could just say I have my views and reading a book by someone out of touch with reality isn't going to change them. What sort of books do you read ? I'm surprised some people on here actually have time for anything, the time they spend on here. They can't be reading too much, or working, that's for sure. why not? bit of an ivory tower way of going about things no? at least if you read view points contrary to your own it would give you a better understanding of the whole picture of things. I've read lots of books/articles/newspapers with views that i feel fall outside of my personal views/opinions. knowledge is power. read everything IMO. Well. Let's put it this way. I did once. But now, I don't. thats it? one time? ...to each thier own. you mean, each to their own you don't read the right material, obviously Correcting a spelling mistake and using minging grammar to do so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Complete tangent but I saw a woman wearing the full hijab yesterday (the one where only the eyes are visible) while driving her car. Got me to thinking that it must conflict with British road traffic laws. Probably the spirit rather than the letter I mean, but if ever there was a loophole for speeders, that's what they want to be wearing. just fucking wrong as well innit Sure it is illegal to drive with a Burqa on in some countries - wasn't a woman arrested in Italy for this recently? Also illegal in Saudi, for different reasons. I would imagine it's not technically illegal (currently) in this country, however it should be so on the basis of traffic offence detection/identification, merely to bring it into line with the changes in the law which saw overly tinted windscreens outlawed (much to the chagrin of Premiership footballers everywhere). I don't accept any human rights/religious freedoms arguments on this one either because I'm talking solely about being within a vehicle. The vehicle itself acts as a form of barrier to others and moreover, other road users have to keep a safe lookout while driving their own vehicle under the Highway Code, therefore they're not going to become pre-occupied by how sexually aroused a fellow female drivers hair might get them (or however the argument about religious modesty goes. Snore btw). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 Complete tangent but I saw a woman wearing the full hijab yesterday (the one where only the eyes are visible) while driving her car. Got me to thinking that it must conflict with British road traffic laws. Probably the spirit rather than the letter I mean, but if ever there was a loophole for speeders, that's what they want to be wearing. just fucking wrong as well innit Sure it is illegal to drive with a Burqa on in some countries - wasn't a woman arrested in Italy for this recently? Also illegal in Saudi, for different reasons. I would imagine it's not technically illegal (currently) in this country, however it should be so on the basis of traffic offence detection/identification, merely to bring it into line with the changes in the law which saw overly tinted windscreens outlawed (much to the chagrin of Premiership footballers everywhere). I don't accept any human rights/religious freedoms arguments on this one either because I'm talking solely about being within a vehicle. The vehicle itself acts as a form of barrier to others and moreover, other road users have to keep a safe lookout while driving their own vehicle under the Highway Code, therefore they're not going to become pre-occupied by how sexually aroused a fellow female drivers hair might get them (or however the argument about religious modesty goes. Snore btw). maybe "she" had a beard......did you check the armpits ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 What (if anything) do you read, Leazes? Perhaps you could provide us pinko lefties not you too I'm surprised you thought that highly of me, to be honest. Care to answer the question? what sort of books do I read ? Not left wing politically-slanted books ..... ditto left wing politically-slanted newspapers either. I've made a few posts in the "what are you reading" thread...politically, you could just say I have my views and reading a book by someone out of touch with reality isn't going to change them. What sort of books do you read ? I'm surprised some people on here actually have time for anything, the time they spend on here. They can't be reading too much, or working, that's for sure. why not? bit of an ivory tower way of going about things no? at least if you read view points contrary to your own it would give you a better understanding of the whole picture of things. I've read lots of books/articles/newspapers with views that i feel fall outside of my personal views/opinions. knowledge is power. read everything IMO. Well. Let's put it this way. I did once. But now, I don't. thats it? one time? ...to each thier own. you mean, each to their own you don't read the right material, obviously Correcting a spelling mistake and using minging grammar to do so "minging grammar" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Complete tangent but I saw a woman wearing the full hijab yesterday (the one where only the eyes are visible) while driving her car. Got me to thinking that it must conflict with British road traffic laws. Probably the spirit rather than the letter I mean, but if ever there was a loophole for speeders, that's what they want to be wearing. just fucking wrong as well innit Sure it is illegal to drive with a Burqa on in some countries - wasn't a woman arrested in Italy for this recently? Also illegal in Saudi, for different reasons. I would imagine it's not technically illegal (currently) in this country, however it should be so on the basis of traffic offence detection/identification, merely to bring it into line with the changes in the law which saw overly tinted windscreens outlawed (much to the chagrin of Premiership footballers everywhere). I don't accept any human rights/religious freedoms arguments on this one either because I'm talking solely about being within a vehicle. The vehicle itself acts as a form of barrier to others and moreover, other road users have to keep a safe lookout while driving their own vehicle under the Highway Code, therefore they're not going to become pre-occupied by how sexually aroused a fellow female drivers hair might get them (or however the argument about religious modesty goes. Snore btw). maybe "she" had a beard......did you check the armpits ? I waited for a hand signal in order to check but she favoured the decadent Western dashboard indicator like the big Islamist hypocrite that she was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooner 243 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 What (if anything) do you read, Leazes? Perhaps you could provide us pinko lefties not you too I'm surprised you thought that highly of me, to be honest. Care to answer the question? what sort of books do I read ? Not left wing politically-slanted books ..... ditto left wing politically-slanted newspapers either. I've made a few posts in the "what are you reading" thread...politically, you could just say I have my views and reading a book by someone out of touch with reality isn't going to change them. What sort of books do you read ? I'm surprised some people on here actually have time for anything, the time they spend on here. They can't be reading too much, or working, that's for sure. why not? bit of an ivory tower way of going about things no? at least if you read view points contrary to your own it would give you a better understanding of the whole picture of things. I've read lots of books/articles/newspapers with views that i feel fall outside of my personal views/opinions. knowledge is power. read everything IMO. Well. Let's put it this way. I did once. But now, I don't. thats it? one time? ...to each thier own. you mean, each to their own you don't read the right material, obviously i guess take your victories where you can get them eh? since you've been shown up in the rest of the thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 What (if anything) do you read, Leazes? Perhaps you could provide us pinko lefties not you too I'm surprised you thought that highly of me, to be honest. Care to answer the question? what sort of books do I read ? Not left wing politically-slanted books ..... ditto left wing politically-slanted newspapers either. I've made a few posts in the "what are you reading" thread...politically, you could just say I have my views and reading a book by someone out of touch with reality isn't going to change them. What sort of books do you read ? I'm surprised some people on here actually have time for anything, the time they spend on here. They can't be reading too much, or working, that's for sure. why not? bit of an ivory tower way of going about things no? at least if you read view points contrary to your own it would give you a better understanding of the whole picture of things. I've read lots of books/articles/newspapers with views that i feel fall outside of my personal views/opinions. knowledge is power. read everything IMO. Well. Let's put it this way. I did once. But now, I don't. thats it? one time? ...to each thier own. you mean, each to their own you don't read the right material, obviously Correcting a spelling mistake and using minging grammar to do so "minging grammar" What's funny about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 The trap is set, but will he take the bait..? ffs btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 What (if anything) do you read, Leazes? Perhaps you could provide us pinko lefties not you too I'm surprised you thought that highly of me, to be honest. Care to answer the question? what sort of books do I read ? Not left wing politically-slanted books ..... ditto left wing politically-slanted newspapers either. I've made a few posts in the "what are you reading" thread...politically, you could just say I have my views and reading a book by someone out of touch with reality isn't going to change them. What sort of books do you read ? I'm surprised some people on here actually have time for anything, the time they spend on here. They can't be reading too much, or working, that's for sure. why not? bit of an ivory tower way of going about things no? at least if you read view points contrary to your own it would give you a better understanding of the whole picture of things. I've read lots of books/articles/newspapers with views that i feel fall outside of my personal views/opinions. knowledge is power. read everything IMO. Well. Let's put it this way. I did once. But now, I don't. thats it? one time? ...to each thier own. you mean, each to their own you don't read the right material, obviously i guess take your victories where you can get them eh? since you've been shown up in the rest of the thread.... oh, I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 What (if anything) do you read, Leazes? Perhaps you could provide us pinko lefties not you too I'm surprised you thought that highly of me, to be honest. Care to answer the question? what sort of books do I read ? Not left wing politically-slanted books ..... ditto left wing politically-slanted newspapers either. I've made a few posts in the "what are you reading" thread...politically, you could just say I have my views and reading a book by someone out of touch with reality isn't going to change them. What sort of books do you read ? I'm surprised some people on here actually have time for anything, the time they spend on here. They can't be reading too much, or working, that's for sure. why not? bit of an ivory tower way of going about things no? at least if you read view points contrary to your own it would give you a better understanding of the whole picture of things. I've read lots of books/articles/newspapers with views that i feel fall outside of my personal views/opinions. knowledge is power. read everything IMO. Well. Let's put it this way. I did once. But now, I don't. thats it? one time? ...to each thier own. you mean, each to their own you don't read the right material, obviously Correcting a spelling mistake and using minging grammar to do so "minging grammar" What's funny about that? my 15 year old daughter saying "minging". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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