Winning Mentality

[Guest Tuco Ramirez]

You ever get the feeling no matter how bigger teams play when they're losing they'll always sneak a win. I think it takes years to get, and obviously a lot of it is down to the calibre of players you have. Take Chelsea, Chelsea under Vialli and Gullit, and even Ranieri, they had good teams but they didn't have that steely nerve it takes to win the biggest trophies and see every game out. Yesterday though, despite the fact Arsenal have more skilful players you just knew Chelsea would win because they have that X factor that a club needs to be right at the top of their game.

 

On Saturday I had 5 hours to kill before my train, and usually I'll go and watch Rangers when I'm in London, because they have this huge cavernous pub called The Cock Tavern in Spittalifields Market, but as it turned out they've moved their gatherings to a place called "The White Bear" just round the corner. I had a bet on Rangers to win, but they were all fuckin shitting themselves at 1-0, they really are demanding, "Smith just go ya auld prick" and various racist comments about players, the likes of which I haven't heard off our fans for decades. I got talking to this kid from Derry or "Londonderry"** as he insisted it was called, he said that he was at uni in the toon loved it, he was a good lad and went pint for pint with me, they all thought they'd lose. I knew for a fact they'd turn it round at 1-0 down though, even with 20 minutes to go, not because they're good because the club Rangers has a massive winning mentality, seeped in to them for decades. They believe they'll win, and Chelsea have that now, you just know they'll win.

 

My point is regardless how much Man City throw at it, they'll not come close to winning the Premiership till they have that, it took Chelsea over five years in my opinion, Liverpool had it, lost it in the early 90's, Arsenal had it briefly, and when you look at the bigger sides around Europe, Bayern, Olympiakos, Porto. They have that X factor, they might not even have the best players but they win. Look at Porto, Benfica have much bigger names in their side, (and won their first title for years last year), but Porto are convinced they'll win the league this year because they're used to it and already they're far in front. Man City won't win the league in the next five years, and good I say, their fans are fuckin shit, the club in plastic, the ground isn't a football ground, they have no soul, it died when they left Maine Road, and I hope they win fuck all too, they're not a patch on our fans never have been never will be.

 

** I never knew that players born in Northern Ireland could play for EIRE as a result of the Good Friday Agreement. I presumed it was always the case. As the bloke explained to me Martin O'Neill (who he described as a wee terrorist bashtud) only played for NI as he had no choice, I had no idea that Irish football came in to the GFA like. He was spitting mad at Darron Gibson playing for the Republic.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Tuco Ramirez

[Park Life 71]

You ever get the feeling no matter how bigger teams play when they're losing they'll always sneak a win. I think it takes years to get, and obviously a lot of it is down to the calibre of players you have. Take Chelsea, Chelsea under Vialli and Gullit, and even Ranieri, they had good teams but they didn't have that steely nerve it takes to win the biggest trophies and see every game out. Yesterday though, despite the fact Arsenal have more skilful players you just knew Chelsea would win because they have that X factor that a club needs to be right at the top of their game.

 

On Saturday I had 5 hours to kill before my train, and usually I'll go and watch Rangers when I'm in London, because they have this huge cavernous pub called The Cock Tavern in Spittalifields Market, but as it turned out they've moved their gatherings to a place called "The White Bear" just round the corner. I had a bet on Rangers to win, but they were all fuckin shitting themselves at 1-0, they really are demanding, "Smith just go ya auld prick" and various racist comments about players, the likes of which I haven't heard off our fans for decades. I got talking to this kid from Derry or "Londonderry"** as he insisted it was called, he said that he was at uni in the toon loved it, he was a good lad and went pint for pint with me, they all thought they'd lose. I knew for a fact they'd turn it round at 1-0 down though, even with 20 minutes to go, not because they're good because the club Rangers has a massive winning mentality, seeped in to them for decades. They believe they'll win, and Chelsea have that now, you just know they'll win.

 

My point is regardless how much Man City throw at it, they'll not come close to winning the Premiership till they have that, it took Chelsea over five years in my opinion, Liverpool had it, lost it in the early 90's, Arsenal had it briefly, and when you look at the bigger sides around Europe, Bayern, Olympiakos, Porto. They have that X factor, they might not even have the best players but they win. Look at Porto, Benfica have much bigger names in their side, (and won their first title for years last year), but Porto are convinced they'll win the league this year because they're used to it and already they're far in front. Man City won't win the league in the next five years, and good I say, their fans are fuckin shit, the club in plastic, the ground isn't a football ground, they have no soul, it died when they left Maine Road, and I hope they win fuck all too, they're not a patch on our fans never have been never will be.

 

** I never knew that players born in Northern Ireland could play for EIRE as a result of the Good Friday Agreement. I presumed it was always the case. As the bloke explained to me Martin O'Neill (who he described as a wee terrorist bashtud) only played for NI as he had no choice, I had no idea that Irish football came in to the GFA like. He was spitting mad at Darron Gibson playing for the Republic.

 

Good post.

 

I've noticed the reason it takes time to build a regularly winning side with 'that mentality' is the mix of players (which is a dark and unfathomable art) and the right kind of manager at THE RIGHT club at the RIGHT TIME. It is really an unimaginable mix onf ponderables and chance. When I read about Clough at Forest or the winning Ajax sides or anything written by Cruijif and the like, it comes across as a real journey of discoveries, in the sense that they often find the correct mix by accident, but are clever enought to see it when they find it. At Forest that team had a fair sprinkling of limited players like McGovern and that left footer up front who would have as many bad games as good ones, but Cloughts gift was he could find that blend. Mancini has really dissapointed me starting as he does effectively with 3 DM's (Yaya making runs forward is as ridiculoous as it gets).

 

I can see them finishing in the top 3, but I don't think Mancini or his bunch of all stars have the team identity and spirit to win the league (Chelsea will win it this year and Manu are on the decline, mainly cause money is short). The problem Arsenal have is that Wenger never replaced Viera and also the insistance of playing with one striker who has to go wide to get the ball, also over passing and of course no Henry.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Park Life

[Guest alex]

Me and Tooj were on about how it's strange how you get really creative players like Dalglish and Mancini who are so negative in their approach as managers.

[Park Life 71]

Blackpool?

[Dr Gloom 22184]

I agree totally about the importance of a winning mentality and spirit - belief counts for so much. Citeh might take a while to gain the belief to win the title but they're not far off. Despite the fact we matched them for long periods, I just knew they'd nick it. Was that down to a piece of individual briliance from Johnson or the collective mentality of the team

?

[Barney 0]

Yeah, I agree with that. You can definitely see it in teams. Watching ManU with Keane/Van Nistelrooj, you always knew they'd stay calm and keep the ball on the deck, knowing they'd get a chance. I thought City would nick it yesterday as luck was nowhere near being on our side, and the amount of quality in the team/on the bench.

 

Regarding the Gibson thing, the Northern Irish FA weren't happy at all about it, as he had played at schoolboy level for them. They awere/are also really worried about the knock-on effect of youngsters wanting to play for the Republic too.

[ewerk 31221]

I had no idea that Irish football came in to the GFA like.

 

It was an unintended consequence, rather than a deal breaker.

[David Kelly 1260]

Tbf they won't win the league this season because they just aren't anywhere near good enough. I can't beleive the money they've spunked away on the players that they have. I still say we got good money for Milner so what they paid was a fucking joke and what they're paying for Toure is even more comical.

That said I do agree with the opening point and I think it's the reason why Manure are still up there despite having a much inferior side to what they've had in the past.

 

Btw I also agree their fans are shite. They were a fucking joke yesterday, virtually silent other than when they were in front and a shit load of empty seats.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

Me and Tooj were on about how it's strange how you get really creative players like Dalglish and Mancini who are so negative in their approach as managers.

 

Look at Hoddle, when Keegans team were heading for promotion Hoddle, the epitome of a flair player knew fine well we were better and had his team put in the most dirty, cynical display of fouling and cheating you could ask for. Just simply gutless and going against all your principles to me. I seem to remember Jim Smith warning in the chronicle that his team (can't remember who he was boss of then) had played them and he said to watch them as they were a disgrace.

 

As for City, no chance of the title, haven't got what it takes and i hope they get nowhere near it.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Got a bet on with a mate that ManU will finish above citeh. The reds form has been patchy so far, but they've been there before and know what it takes. City look disjointed, like some of them are only there for the coin and couldn't give a fuck.

[manc-mag 1]

A lot of animosity towards Citeh the club which I never understand tbh. Don't see them winning it this season at all but I wouldn't have owt against them if they did well for themselves. This is a club who were in the old 3rd division when their nearest rivals were winning the European Cup/winning everything in football for the last 20 years.

 

Fair enough if they've had a bit of cash to splash recently tbh and the media can fucking lump it.

[Tom 14013]

City are everything thats wrong with football and they are making it worse.

 

£220K a week for Yaya Toure!

 

To be honest I'm enjoying the Bundesliga a bit more than the premier league these days...

[manc-mag 1]

City are everything thats wrong with football and they are making it worse.

 

£220K a week for Yaya Toure!

 

To be honest I'm enjoying the Bundesliga a bit more than the premier league these days...

 

Yeah they are but that's Premier League commodity football tbh. Ie anyone can go and buy a football club and spunk money about. So it'd be someone else if it wasnt them. It has been before and it will be again.

[Tooj 17]

Gary Cook does their image no favours whatsoever IMO. The smarmy cunt could do with a good kicking.

[Sonatine 11570]

Gary Cook does their image no favours whatsoever IMO. The smarmy cunt could do with a good kicking.

 

He's Peter Kenyon, minus the charm

[manc-mag 1]

Gary Cook does their image no favours whatsoever IMO. The smarmy cunt could do with a good kicking.

 

QFT. As acknowledged by most of their lot tbf. Came out with some right cringeworthy stuff about Man U not so long back to add to his back catalogue of embarrassments. Complete wanker, no class whatsoever.

[tinofbeans 91]

Me and Tooj were on about how it's strange how you get really creative players like Dalglish and Mancini who are so negative in their approach as managers.

the inter side that mancini won titles with often employed 2 or 3 out and out defensive midfielders. ugly football was the norm. i don't see it changing.

 

as for City winning the title, well, they've suffocated chelsea ( who with the exception of Ramires, Essien and Alex look like a side that will be on the downturn in the next 3 years without significant re-investment), and took liverpool apart, but have struggled against the mackems amongst others. I really don't think they have enough backbone, and with legendary trouble makers like toure and adebayor in their side, they won't have the required personalities to win the title.

 

They do however have a really excellent squad. stifled by the managers 4-3-2-1 line up.

[Guest Tuco Ramirez]

A lot of animosity towards Citeh the club which I never understand tbh. Don't see them winning it this season at all but I wouldn't have owt against them if they did well for themselves. This is a club who were in the old 3rd division when their nearest rivals were winning the European Cup/winning everything in football for the last 20 years.

 

Fair enough if they've had a bit of cash to splash recently tbh and the media can fucking lump it.

They're cunts always were, always will be. In the grand scheme of things Sunderland have a bigger fanbase than them, and from years of accepting they're shit they're now demanding the Champions League. You would think having the most expensive team in the world would bring some passion and atmosphere to their games, but they can't even fucking sell out games against sides with big away followings like us.

 

I remember going to Maine Road in 2000, Shearer header, leaving the ground for about 300 "faces" to indsicriminately wade in to Newcastle scarfers including women and children, and on the bus back to Piccadilly, smashing lights on the bus, generally being scumbags. Never liked them, always preferred Man Utd. The myth about their support being out of the ordinary because of one year in Division Three, is baffling, their support outwith that has been mediocre at best. I love this thread.

 

http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/Forum/viewt...=1&t=192226

 

"for a one club town their support is a disgrace, last season was an embarrassment to them."

 

Yeah massive embarrassment, getting a better average gate of 44,000 than they've had in the top flight at any point in their history. Utter wanks. I replied with this, which they so far have negated to post the total mugs.

 

Last seasons support was a disgrace?

 

* Premiership prices

* Watching drivel most weeks

* A club who sold 10 of their best players

* Thrown to the ground and spat on by Ashley with not a penny investment

* No domestic trophies in 55 years

* Gets the third highest non top flight gate in history of English football (just under 44,000)

Hi

* Bettered only by Man Utd 48,000 (1974) and Newcastle 58,000 (1948)

* An average attendance bettered by Man City in the TWICE in any division

 

....and our average gate of 43,569 is a disgrace? You total fucking mug. Your 28,000 in 1998 was nothing special. £15 to get in tops, in the boom years after Euro 96, Oasis made City cool for a while, and it was almost a cult to watch the club, just a few years earlier you were getting 19,000 in a division higher. Whereas all you can throw at us is 1991, when if anyone who had a clue about Newcastle would know there was an official boycot to overthrow Gordon McKeag which we won. We had the highest average outside the top tier in the 80's (1984 - 30,000 third highest in the country), the highest in any league and a world record in the 40's (58,000) and the highest outside the top tier in the 21st century, 44,000, and that will never be bettered. Because the only fans who are capable of such loyalty are Man Utd, and they'll never go down again.

 

As for the laughable stats about population. Newcastle's population is actually 250,000, we're part of Tyne & Wear which has a pop of 1.1m, Greater Manchester is nearly 3m. So that dispells that myth, the irony is you use Man Utd as an excuse for your support, when the bush you beat them with is they're all out of towners, make your fucking mind up eh, and on an even level playing field Sunderland are a much better supported club than Manchester City.

 

Abusing a 44,000 average gate from a club without a trophy in 55 years in the second tier of a football league you all know you're not capable of it. Lets be honest you'd be at 29-32000 now in the Premiership if you were still managed by Pearce coming 15th-16th. The fair minded City fans would begrudgingly agree. You mouthy fat cunts* Britain's fattest cunts according to more than one survey, dwarf like rodents just like the dippers.

[Guest Tuco Ramirez]

** I never knew that players born in Northern Ireland could play for EIRE as a result of the Good Friday Agreement. I presumed it was always the case. As the bloke explained to me Martin O'Neill (who he described as a wee terrorist bashtud) only played for NI as he had no choice, I had no idea that Irish football came in to the GFA like. He was spitting mad at Darron Gibson playing for the Republic.

 

Naw the good Friday agreement allowed you to claim either British or Irish nationality (although you were always able to get an Irish passport due to the Irish constitution).

But to get around the football problem everyone tended to have a relative somewhere to let them qualify for the republic if needs be lol.

 

Gibson plays for the republic because he was a catholic who grew up here and no doubt knows what being a catholic and playing for the north means.

 

here's the difference for me, over the years protestants and the likes of McAteer who were english played for Ireland without any sectarian abuse or death threats, its not me being biased it's just massively different down south compared to the hassle and bigotry in the north, even back then you could go to a republic game and not hear any of "those" chants, just can't say the same for the north unfortunately.

 

Stevie in that lad you met you just described the bog standard bigoted Spacker we have here, someone from the north, supporting either rangers or celtic, and giving off about using either Londonderry or Derry.

(and O'Neil did have a choice, he could've just told them to get stuffed and not play for either country, i'm sure he's pleased to have played, captained them to beating spain to be remembered as a "terrorist bastard").

 

 

@the city, as long as they don't lose their new found backing they will start winning trophies and start creating themselves a new footballing history imo

As much as i dont like how they can throw money at it, it will work and it will happen eventually.

The kid wasn't your bog standard bigot he was quite educated, said he had catholic mates, but wouldn't have a catholic mate who supported Celtic. What protestants have played for the ROI like?

[Guest Tuco Ramirez]

** I never knew that players born in Northern Ireland could play for EIRE as a result of the Good Friday Agreement. I presumed it was always the case. As the bloke explained to me Martin O'Neill (who he described as a wee terrorist bashtud) only played for NI as he had no choice, I had no idea that Irish football came in to the GFA like. He was spitting mad at Darron Gibson playing for the Republic.

 

Naw the good Friday agreement allowed you to claim either British or Irish nationality (although you were always able to get an Irish passport due to the Irish constitution).

But to get around the football problem everyone tended to have a relative somewhere to let them qualify for the republic if needs be lol.

 

Gibson plays for the republic because he was a catholic who grew up here and no doubt knows what being a catholic and playing for the north means.

 

here's the difference for me, over the years protestants and the likes of McAteer who were english played for Ireland without any sectarian abuse or death threats, its not me being biased it's just massively different down south compared to the hassle and bigotry in the north, even back then you could go to a republic game and not hear any of "those" chants, just can't say the same for the north unfortunately.

 

Stevie in that lad you met you just described the bog standard bigoted Spacker we have here, someone from the north, supporting either rangers or celtic, and giving off about using either Londonderry or Derry.

(and O'Neil did have a choice, he could've just told them to get stuffed and not play for either country, i'm sure he's pleased to have played, captained them to beating spain to be remembered as a "terrorist bastard").

 

 

@the city, as long as they don't lose their new found backing they will start winning trophies and start creating themselves a new footballing history imo

As much as i dont like how they can throw money at it, it will work and it will happen eventually.

The kid wasn't your bog standard bigot he was quite educated, said he had catholic mates, but wouldn't have a catholic mate who supported Celtic. What protestants have played for the ROI like?

 

Apologies he's a bigot with a degree then...

Maybe should rephrase that religion point, because I'm not sure and tbh i've never bothered to care or heard anyone report on it unlike the guff we get for the north, i've always assumed a couple of the English lads who played/managed us would've been protestant but was a non issue as i said it never came up.

 

Just outta interest do Scotland/Wales play god save the queen, never really pay much attention to the anthems, but bet thats another bone of contention if you were going to play for n.ireland.

Well what else they going to play, the soldier song, or we'll guard old Derry's walls. Northern Ireland has neither the heritage nor uniqueness of Wales or Scotland as a 6 county country. Hey don't get me wrong Northern Ireland should have fuck all to do with this country, it belongs to Ireland but that's a separate issue.

[Guest alex]

Danny Boy?

[ewerk 31221]

Ant, has Niall McGinn or Pat McCourt had any bother while playing for NI? Gibson was born in NI and should be playing for them.

[Guest Tuco Ramirez]

Ant, has Niall McGinn or Pat McCourt had any bother while playing for NI? Gibson was born in NI and should be playing for them.

Gibson's family believe they live in Ireland, so why shouldn't he play for the country he believes he lives in?

[Guest alex]

If Tony Cascarino can be Irish then surely he can be.

[Guest alex]

Rugby's a bit different though, Ant. There's only about 8 countries in the world any good at it so it doesn't conform to the same rules as football. Ireland and Northern Ireland are totally separate countries and will remain so for a long time yet. And while I can see why players would want to play for Eire, I don't think they should be allowed. Firstly, it's divisive and secondly it's not fair on Northern Ireland as a country because it's basically a one-way street.

Edited October 5, 2010 by alex