US Military Dictatorship?

[Norbert Colon 0]

Very dangerous ground to take a 'good guy - bad guy' attitude when the fact is political and military manipulation has been used by most of the developed world for hundreds of years and for the last century America has been at the forefront using media scaremongering and heavy boot tactics to ensure its success.

 

You say you know who the bad guys are and I would say that an Iraqi citizen would also be able to point you in the right direction, this near hysterical American paranoia is a worrying trend.

[LeazesMag 0]

those SAS guys who shot those IRA scum in Gib were murderers were they ?

 

Given the fact they weren't "being open and wearing uniforms in a proper battlefield" or whatever it is you say about Muslims then I'd say yes.

 

they may have saved someone you know, or you, being murdered.

 

I suppose your reply says everything.

 

Further debate is pointless.

 

Their actions may have caused a retribution from the terrorists which lead to someone being murdered.

 

Your argument is weak as piss.

 

bollocks.

 

They were deservedly shot. Whatever any further consequences. You can't allow shitbags like that to do what they were planning. You don't deal with terrorists. You don't get it. If you deal with them, they see it as weakness and attempt to "bargain" further anyway.

[LeazesMag 0]

Not really bothered about such Liberal rubbish.

 

 

The liberal rubbish that forms the basis of the article on NK you Linked to?

 

So far as I am concerned, if there is an issue of National Security I believe the Americans far more than I do tinpot dictators and banana republics

 

 

Because they have absolutely no history of lying do they?

 

What would be your limits - how many people would they be allowed to kill before you said hang on there's something not quite right here - 10, 100 - a thousand - more?

 

I know who the good guys are. The bad guys wouldn't let you post what you say about them.

 

 

phew! what a relief, as long as YOU know.....

 

coming from a yank wannabee ....

 

i don't even understand your response....must be my percieved lack of real world experience, or your lack of geographical knowledge, of course it could be that you are an internet forum sooopa poster that reverts to what he knows best (name calling and the like) when his side of the argument breaks down.

fact is ,either killing is bad or it isn't, it can't be ok for one side and not the other. either you're for it or you're not.

i am against killing period.

 

fact is LM you haven't a clue, in order to get one you'd need to open your eyes and your mind to the miriad of other cultures and points of view that exist on our planet....tbh i dont even know i'm wasting my effort with this.

 

point is sunshine, you are a plastic yank coming on here trying to tell genuine lifelong supporters of the football club that have actively supported the club for anything between 20-45 years that you know better than we do.

 

You also insist you know more about the politics of the UK more than the majority of posters who have lived here and always have done to go with it.

 

You also are debating issues of National Security with me. You know fuck all about me, you know nothing of my backround or anything at all. You know nothing about my perception of the world, politics, cultures, how I have travelled. You know fuck all. What I do know about you though, is you are a plastic yank, like most Canadians. Like most Jocks who are English wannabees. You are the North American version of a mackem.

 

Killing is bad, but sometimes it is justified. Don't bother preaching to me that the killing of cunts who have terrorist links or even cunts who have sympathies with those who do active terrorism within the civilised western world from their caves in the middle east isn't justified, because it is.

 

Issues of National Security are basic common sense. You being a liberal minded tosspot, think you should be told certain things. But you should not. Certain things are highly confidential for a reason. If you don't agree then basically it's your tough luck. If you want to talk politics talk Canadian politics, not UK politics, because I for one don't give a shit what your opinions are of the UK if you have chosen not to live here and integrate into the community correctly.

 

 

...read the OP...we're talking about NORTH AMERICAN POLITICS.....i really don't give a shit about what you think of me.

 

your reply just goes to show how completely deluded and cluesless you are and the rancor in it belies i may have hit a nerve , is it a fear of books? is that why you dont read? . bitter much.

 

btw...killing is never justified

 

deluded = Not at all. As I said, you know nothing about me.

 

Hit a nerve = just showing you how to suck eggs.

 

 

....how about that OP...makes your rant seem, well in a word, demented.

 

not really. You have no idea of the need for or basics of National Security. Your problem not mine.

 

 

...typical LM..."you just don't understand" response.

 

but you don't

[The Fish 10876]

those SAS guys who shot those IRA scum in Gib were murderers were they ?

 

Given the fact they weren't "being open and wearing uniforms in a proper battlefield" or whatever it is you say about Muslims then I'd say yes.

 

they may have saved someone you know, or you, being murdered.

 

I suppose your reply says everything.

 

Further debate is pointless.

 

Their actions may have caused a retribution from the terrorists which lead to someone being murdered.

 

Your argument is weak as piss.

 

bollocks.

 

They were deservedly shot. Whatever any further consequences. You can't allow shitbags like that to do what they were planning. You don't deal with terrorists. You don't get it. If you deal with them, they see it as weakness and attempt to "bargain" further anyway.

 

 

So you don't believe in escalation?

 

Terrorism doesn't work, it won't ever get the terrorists what they want. Neither does meeting violence with violence. The only thing that works is moderation and if you don't see that, you're as much a zealot as the people you rail against.

[tooner 243]

those SAS guys who shot those IRA scum in Gib were murderers were they ?

 

Given the fact they weren't "being open and wearing uniforms in a proper battlefield" or whatever it is you say about Muslims then I'd say yes.

 

they may have saved someone you know, or you, being murdered.

 

I suppose your reply says everything.

 

Further debate is pointless.

 

Their actions may have caused a retribution from the terrorists which lead to someone being murdered.

 

Your argument is weak as piss.

 

bollocks.

 

They were deservedly shot. Whatever any further consequences. You can't allow shitbags like that to do what they were planning. You don't deal with terrorists. You don't get it. If you deal with them, they see it as weakness and attempt to "bargain" further anyway.

 

 

So you don't believe in escalation?

 

. Terrorism doesn't work, it won't ever get the terrorists what they want. Neither does meeting violence with violenceThe only thing that works is moderation and if you don't see that, you're as much a zealot as the people you rail against.

 

 

+1000000

[Cid_MCDP 0]

those SAS guys who shot those IRA scum in Gib were murderers were they ?

 

Given the fact they weren't "being open and wearing uniforms in a proper battlefield" or whatever it is you say about Muslims then I'd say yes.

 

they may have saved someone you know, or you, being murdered.

 

I suppose your reply says everything.

 

Further debate is pointless.

 

Their actions may have caused a retribution from the terrorists which lead to someone being murdered.

 

Your argument is weak as piss.

 

bollocks.

 

They were deservedly shot. Whatever any further consequences. You can't allow shitbags like that to do what they were planning. You don't deal with terrorists. You don't get it. If you deal with them, they see it as weakness and attempt to "bargain" further anyway.

 

 

So you don't believe in escalation?

 

Terrorism doesn't work, it won't ever get the terrorists what they want. Neither does meeting violence with violence. The only thing that works is moderation and if you don't see that, you're as much a zealot as the people you rail against.

 

WTF? Terrorism works like a motherfucker, man! Not for the terrorists, no, but for the defense contractors, clerics, polticans, mercenar- er, I mean, security contractors, media outlets, and the rest whose currency is the fearful and ignorant, it works quite effectively.

 

(Totally see your point, btw)

[Park Life 71]

Very dangerous ground to take a 'good guy - bad guy' attitude when the fact is political and military manipulation has been used by most of the developed world for hundreds of years and for the last century America has been at the forefront using media scaremongering and heavy boot tactics to ensure its success.

 

You say you know who the bad guys are and I would say that an Iraqi citizen would also be able to point you in the right direction, this near hysterical American paranoia is a worrying trend.

 

One of the best posts in the thread. People are being manipulated and agenda are being driven forward.

[Park Life 71]

those SAS guys who shot those IRA scum in Gib were murderers were they ?

 

Given the fact they weren't "being open and wearing uniforms in a proper battlefield" or whatever it is you say about Muslims then I'd say yes.

 

they may have saved someone you know, or you, being murdered.

 

I suppose your reply says everything.

 

Further debate is pointless.

 

Their actions may have caused a retribution from the terrorists which lead to someone being murdered.

 

Your argument is weak as piss.

 

bollocks.

 

They were deservedly shot. Whatever any further consequences. You can't allow shitbags like that to do what they were planning. You don't deal with terrorists. You don't get it. If you deal with them, they see it as weakness and attempt to "bargain" further anyway.

 

 

So you don't believe in escalation?

 

Terrorism doesn't work, it won't ever get the terrorists what they want. Neither does meeting violence with violence. The only thing that works is moderation and if you don't see that, you're as much a zealot as the people you rail against.

 

WTF? Terrorism works like a motherfucker, man! Not for the terrorists, no, but for the defense contractors, clerics, polticans, mercenar- er, I mean, security contractors, media outlets, and the rest whose currency is the fearful and ignorant, it works quite effectively.

 

(Totally see your point, btw)

 

It's a money maker and a budget raiser.

[LeazesMag 0]

those SAS guys who shot those IRA scum in Gib were murderers were they ?

 

Given the fact they weren't "being open and wearing uniforms in a proper battlefield" or whatever it is you say about Muslims then I'd say yes.

 

they may have saved someone you know, or you, being murdered.

 

I suppose your reply says everything.

 

Further debate is pointless.

 

Their actions may have caused a retribution from the terrorists which lead to someone being murdered.

 

Your argument is weak as piss.

 

bollocks.

 

They were deservedly shot. Whatever any further consequences. You can't allow shitbags like that to do what they were planning. You don't deal with terrorists. You don't get it. If you deal with them, they see it as weakness and attempt to "bargain" further anyway.

 

 

So you don't believe in escalation?

 

Terrorism doesn't work, it won't ever get the terrorists what they want. Neither does meeting violence with violence. The only thing that works is moderation and if you don't see that, you're as much a zealot as the people you rail against.

 

shoot first, shoot them before they shoot you, shoot them before they blow up innocent civilians.

 

What you are saying is you should give in to their demands, to a degree. Then they want more. Scumbags like those fuckers in Gib deserved to be shot. Where was the retaliation to that ?

[LeazesMag 0]

Anyway, to get back to the opening post, anybody who seriously thinks the US, despite their faults, are a military dictatorship is quite mad.

 

[tooner 243]

Anyway, to get back to the opening post, anybody who seriously thinks the US, despite their faults, are a military dictatorship is quite mad.

 

 

 

commenting on north american politics? what qualifies you to do so?......

[LeazesMag 0]

Anyway, to get back to the opening post, anybody who seriously thinks the US, despite their faults, are a military dictatorship is quite mad.

 

 

 

commenting on north american politics? what qualifies you to do so?......

 

Like I said, you know nothing about me son. Nothing at all

[The Fish 10876]

shoot first, shoot them before they shoot you, shoot them before they blow up innocent civilians.

 

What you are saying is you should give in to their demands, to a degree. Then they want more. Scumbags like those fuckers in Gib deserved to be shot. Where was the retaliation to that ?

 

No, what I'm saying is you foster moderation on both sides. You simply continue to butcher innocents in your endeavours to find the guilty and you will radicalise normally rational, reasonable people. The easiest recruiting tool the enemies of "the West" have, is the footage of American missiles slamming into schools and funerals. IT doesn't matter if 60% of the people killed are zealots hell bent on destruction, the fanatics can simply point at the carnage and proclaim once more, that the Great Satan is alive and well and he drives to work in an SUV while listening to Bruce Springsteen.

 

The greatest steps forward in the Irish peace process was when we sat down with the radicals and afforded them a degree of legitimacy.

[tooner 243]

Anyway, to get back to the opening post, anybody who seriously thinks the US, despite their faults, are a military dictatorship is quite mad.

 

 

 

commenting on north american politics? what qualifies you to do so?......

 

Like I said, you know nothing about me son. Nothing at all

 

 

just wondering, as I am not allowed to comment on UK politics...btw, as you've never been to canada, where was it you came across "most canadians", the ones that are "plastic yanks"?

[Happy Face 29]

Leazes' entire argument seems to be nothing more than "no surrender to the IRA"

Edited September 28, 2010 by Happy Face

[Renton 21643]

shoot first, shoot them before they shoot you, shoot them before they blow up innocent civilians.

 

What you are saying is you should give in to their demands, to a degree. Then they want more. Scumbags like those fuckers in Gib deserved to be shot. Where was the retaliation to that ?

 

No, what I'm saying is you foster moderation on both sides. You simply continue to butcher innocents in your endeavours to find the guilty and you will radicalise normally rational, reasonable people. The easiest recruiting tool the enemies of "the West" have, is the footage of American missiles slamming into schools and funerals. IT doesn't matter if 60% of the people killed are zealots hell bent on destruction, the fanatics can simply point at the carnage and proclaim once more, that the Great Satan is alive and well and he drives to work in an SUV while listening to Bruce Springsteen.

 

The greatest steps forward in the Irish peace process was when we sat down with the radicals and afforded them a degree of legitimacy.

 

So, in other words, terrorism in Northern Ireland worked?

[tooner 243]

Leazes' entire argument seems to be nothing more than "no surrender to the IRA"

 

 

i thought it was..."you don't know what i know, and therefore I'm right"

[tooner 243]

shoot first, shoot them before they shoot you, shoot them before they blow up innocent civilians.

 

What you are saying is you should give in to their demands, to a degree. Then they want more. Scumbags like those fuckers in Gib deserved to be shot. Where was the retaliation to that ?

 

No, what I'm saying is you foster moderation on both sides. You simply continue to butcher innocents in your endeavours to find the guilty and you will radicalise normally rational, reasonable people. The easiest recruiting tool the enemies of "the West" have, is the footage of American missiles slamming into schools and funerals. IT doesn't matter if 60% of the people killed are zealots hell bent on destruction, the fanatics can simply point at the carnage and proclaim once more, that the Great Satan is alive and well and he drives to work in an SUV while listening to Bruce Springsteen.

 

The greatest steps forward in the Irish peace process was when we sat down with the radicals and afforded them a degree of legitimacy.

 

So, in other words, terrorism in Northern Ireland worked?

 

bit of an over simplification, some one has to bring the parties to the table, it goes beyond who is right and who is wrong. two sides to every story and all that, the important thing is that conflict is negotiated across a table, far from colateral damage on both sides.

[sniffer 0]

shoot first, shoot them before they shoot you, shoot them before they blow up innocent civilians.

 

What you are saying is you should give in to their demands, to a degree. Then they want more. Scumbags like those fuckers in Gib deserved to be shot. Where was the retaliation to that ?

 

No, what I'm saying is you foster moderation on both sides. You simply continue to butcher innocents in your endeavours to find the guilty and you will radicalise normally rational, reasonable people. The easiest recruiting tool the enemies of "the West" have, is the footage of American missiles slamming into schools and funerals. IT doesn't matter if 60% of the people killed are zealots hell bent on destruction, the fanatics can simply point at the carnage and proclaim once more, that the Great Satan is alive and well and he drives to work in an SUV while listening to Bruce Springsteen.

 

The greatest steps forward in the Irish peace process was when we sat down with the radicals and afforded them a degree of legitimacy.

 

So, in other words, terrorism in Northern Ireland worked?

 

Aided and abetted by both a labour government and the US intent on selling out the people of NI.

[Renton 21643]

shoot first, shoot them before they shoot you, shoot them before they blow up innocent civilians.

 

What you are saying is you should give in to their demands, to a degree. Then they want more. Scumbags like those fuckers in Gib deserved to be shot. Where was the retaliation to that ?

 

No, what I'm saying is you foster moderation on both sides. You simply continue to butcher innocents in your endeavours to find the guilty and you will radicalise normally rational, reasonable people. The easiest recruiting tool the enemies of "the West" have, is the footage of American missiles slamming into schools and funerals. IT doesn't matter if 60% of the people killed are zealots hell bent on destruction, the fanatics can simply point at the carnage and proclaim once more, that the Great Satan is alive and well and he drives to work in an SUV while listening to Bruce Springsteen.

 

The greatest steps forward in the Irish peace process was when we sat down with the radicals and afforded them a degree of legitimacy.

 

So, in other words, terrorism in Northern Ireland worked?

 

bit of an over simplification, some one has to bring the parties to the table, it goes beyond who is right and who is wrong. two sides to every story and all that, the important thing is that conflict is negotiated across a table, far from colateral damage on both sides.

 

Of course, I agree. But it was commented on earlier that terrorism doesn't work when in fact it does, it forces governments to negotiate. History has also shown it is nigh on impossible for a conventional force to be successful in a guerilla war, yet we're still in Afghanistan seemingly ignoring the lessons the Russians learnt the hard way.

 

I'd say the 9/11 terrorists have been very successful in curbing our liberties too. Job done basically.

[Renton 21643]

shoot first, shoot them before they shoot you, shoot them before they blow up innocent civilians.

 

What you are saying is you should give in to their demands, to a degree. Then they want more. Scumbags like those fuckers in Gib deserved to be shot. Where was the retaliation to that ?

 

No, what I'm saying is you foster moderation on both sides. You simply continue to butcher innocents in your endeavours to find the guilty and you will radicalise normally rational, reasonable people. The easiest recruiting tool the enemies of "the West" have, is the footage of American missiles slamming into schools and funerals. IT doesn't matter if 60% of the people killed are zealots hell bent on destruction, the fanatics can simply point at the carnage and proclaim once more, that the Great Satan is alive and well and he drives to work in an SUV while listening to Bruce Springsteen.

 

The greatest steps forward in the Irish peace process was when we sat down with the radicals and afforded them a degree of legitimacy.

 

So, in other words, terrorism in Northern Ireland worked?

 

Aided and abetted by both a labour government and the US intent on selling out the people of NI.

 

Ahhh, bring back the good old days.

[The Fish 10876]

I don't think it has worked, the IRA wanted all of Britain out of all of Ireland, that's not the case, is it?

11/9 bombers wanted to eradicate the Great Satan and establish sharia law all over the globe, which they haven't.

 

I agree that it's had an impact, but terrorism hasn't restricted our liberties as much as the fear mongers would have you believe, in fact I don't think my day-to-day life has changed one fucking drop since the attacks. However if I believed the reports in the press I'd be afraid of bombers on every corner and Sharia law courts dictating how I pay a parking fine.

 

but I think you already know that and you were just being ornery

[Renton 21643]

I don't think it has worked, the IRA wanted all of Britain out of all of Ireland, that's not the case, is it?

11/9 bombers wanted to eradicate the Great Satan and establish sharia law all over the globe, which they haven't.

 

I agree that it's had an impact, but terrorism hasn't restricted our liberties as much as the fear mongers would have you believe, in fact I don't think my day-to-day life has changed one fucking drop since the attacks. However if I believed the reports in the press I'd be afraid of bombers on every corner and Sharia law courts dictating how I pay a parking fine.

 

but I think you already know that and you were just being ornery

 

Ornery's your favourite word isn't it?

 

Put it another way, without the IRA how much longer would catholics have been oppressed in Northern Ireland? There might not be a united Ireland (yet) but that was just one of the objectives, I just don't think its correct to suggest terrorism was ineffectual.

 

It's my sincere opinion that the US has been fundamentally changed by one, single, act of terror. Not just the US either. I'd say that was one hell of a result which shows how effective terrorism can be.

[The Fish 10876]

Ornery's your favourite word isn't it?

 

Put it another way, without the IRA how much longer would catholics have been oppressed in Northern Ireland? There might not be a united Ireland (yet) but that was just one of the objectives, I just don't think its correct to suggest terrorism was ineffectual.

 

It's my sincere opinion that the US has been fundamentally changed by one, single, act of terror. Not just the US either. I'd say that was one hell of a result which shows how effective terrorism can be.

very much so, yes

 

The throwing the dummy out of the pram may have got them attention, but it was negotiations and calm resolve that produced actual results. In short, if someone had talked to them decades ago, instead of putting boy after man in harms way, many many lives may have been spared.

 

Yeah I would say that the US has been altered, but not in the way that's going to get the fundamentalists what they want. The average american is still living exactly the same way s/he was before the attack, just like the average Brit is living the same way they did before 07/07/05 attacks. Islamic terrorists are cowards and bullies and blowing up schools and funerals plays directly into their hands. The only way to defeat them is to reveal them as the villains of the peace to the people who they say they're trying to free from "the West"'s oppression.

 

I'm not saying we turn the other cheek to atrocity, but by bombing and occupying innocent bystanders, we do nothing but swell their ranks.

[NJS 4389]

Anti-colonial terrorism has usually won (Malaysia, Israel, Zimbabwe, USA) - NI just took the longest because it was the closest to home - in the end the coloniser gets sick of the hassle and negotiates.

 

What's difference now is there's nothing you can really give them - I don't think an Israel/Palestine peace would make that much difference - As I've said before the best way to de-radicalise militant Islam is to corrupt them with Western decadent values.