Auction/Property advice

[Happy Face 29]

Reet, I've got a property (not really, but someone close has) I had on the market for ages which I decided to sell in an auction. It's a maisonette with 3 flats sharing an entrance. So we all own our leases but the freehold is shared between all 3.

 

Following the auction the buyer paid the 10% deposit but their lender refused to release the funds for the rest after 28 days because one of the other 2 that share the freehold hadn't agreed to give consent to the new person replacing me on the freehold (and still refuses to do so).

 

I've been paying the mortgage on this place for 6 months plus since the auction while the new buyers have been in doing work on it in anticipation of it getting sorted.

 

The barrister finally sent out terms for taking the arsehole to court to get consent....but it's going to cost upwards of £3k...of which the best we could hope of getting back in costs would be 80%...possibly none.

 

Given the outstanding mortgage on the place and the auctioneers fees and the potential court costs, if it does get sorted it will be at a loss for me.

 

What would you advise?

 

Can I just walk away from the auction sale and put it back on the market as lease only? Do property's sell as lease only?

 

Who would the buyer chase for their money back? Me or the auctioneer (who didn't hold the freehold they included in the auction and never asked for any signed evidence before the auction)?

 

What are banks like for chasing you for money if you want to walk away? Does it depend on the equity left in the property or will they always chase they mortgage holder for the money rather than take ownership of the property?

Edited September 13, 2010 by Happy Face

[Park Life 71]

Stop paying everyone. It's what I always do. And then after a while clarity comes. The first thing I ALWAYS DO is stop money going out of my bank whatever the scenario. Stop paying the lawyer, the mortgage, the rent whatever, the utility and everything. STOP TODAY. Then wait.

[Gemmill 44995]

This sounds like a horrible tangled mess that will need proper legal advice tbh. I wouldn't go off anything you hear on here (no offense to anyone else replying).

[Park Life 71]

This sounds like a horrible tangled mess that will need proper legal advice tbh. I wouldn't go off anything you hear on here (no offense to anyone else replying).

 

Tbh I've given the best advice this board can manage.

 

In these situations it easy to go chasing everything and get stressed. Let the others chase you.

 

Then you can basically say, "Well it was all sorted but Mr X wouldn't play ball, you better speak to Mr X. I'm done with it."

 

It scares the shit out of everyone.

 

Layyers will just take his money and go down the pub.

[NJS 4389]

Does the refusnik have a problem with the specific new owner or any? - if the latter then won't re-selling risk the same scenario?

[Park Life 71]

My uncle owns a fair bit of property in London and this kind of shit is always happenning, normally someone is looking for a payoff.

 

Leasehold is only any good if it's a 99y lease otherwise the effect the value.

Edited September 13, 2010 by Park Life

[ChezGiven 0]

All boils down to the legality of refusing to replace you with the new people on the freehold. I'd listen carefully to the arguments on that. If it seems you will win the case (despite the costs) i would threaten him in a letter that you will contest it in court and that you intent to sue for losses too.

[Park Life 71]

Reet, I've got a property (not really, but someone close has) I had on the market for ages which I decided to sell in an auction. It's a maisonette with 3 flats sharing an entrance. So we all own our leases but the freehold is shared between all 3.

 

Following the auction the buyer paid the 10% deposit but their lender refused to release the funds for the rest after 28 days because one of the other 2 that share the freehold hadn't agreed to give consent to the new person replacing me on the freehold (and still refuses to do so).

 

I've been paying the mortgage on this place for 6 months plus since the auction while the new buyers have been in doing work on it in anticipation of it getting sorted.

 

The barrister finally sent out terms for taking the arsehole to court to get consent....but it's going to cost upwards of £3k...of which the best we could hope of getting back in costs would be 80%...possibly none.

 

Given the outstanding mortgage on the place and the auctioneers fees and the potential court costs, if it does get sorted it will be at a loss for me.

 

What would you advise?

 

Can I just walk away from the auction sale and put it back on the market as lease only? Do property's sell as lease only?

 

Who would the buyer chase for their money back? Me or the auctioneer (who didn't hold the freehold they included in the auction and never asked for any signed evidence before the auction)?

 

What are banks like for chasing you for money if you want to walk away? Does it depend on the equity left in the property or will they always chase they mortgage holder for the money rather than take ownership of the property?

 

Reading it again if freehold wasn't on the terms the auctioneers supplied, the contractual law is between the vendor and the auctioneer. I'd hold out on that one for a start.

 

MODERN LIFE is about everybody taking money out of YOUR BANK, the key is to stop that. STOP PAYING MONEY for things that you aren't using.

[Happy Face 29]

Stop paying everyone. It's what I always do. And then after a while clarity comes. The first thing I ALWAYS DO is stop money going out of my bank whatever the scenario. Stop paying the lawyer, the mortgage, the rent whatever, the utility and everything. STOP TODAY. Then wait.

 

Your credit rating must be the dogs bollocks

 

This sounds like a horrible tangled mess that will need proper legal advice tbh. I wouldn't go off anything you hear on here (no offense to anyone else replying).

 

I thought this place was full of proper legal eagles.

 

In these situations it easy to go chasing everything and get stressed. Let the others chase you.

 

Then you can basically say, "Well it was all sorted but Mr X wouldn't play ball, you better speak to Mr X. I'm done with it."

 

It scares the shit out of everyone.

 

Layyers will just take his money and go down the pub.

 

The old "I gave the money to your lass, if she says I never it's your problem" trick. Can't see the bank having that like.

 

Does the refusnik have a problem with the specific new owner or any? - if the latter then won't re-selling risk the same scenario?

 

My family own two of the 3 properties. The freehold and other contractual obligations were held by a management company which had to be paid for.....after 6 years of the refusnik making no contributions we (perhaps stupidly) stopped paying towards it and just let it be dissolved. He's insisting we pay for that company to be recreated and a new contract drawn up before he'll sign anything.

 

 

That's why I asked about selling the place just as a leasehold which he has no say over. The solicitors said that would be fine....but the buyers in this case are refusing as it was advertised as a freehold property. Next step might to be to tell them our hands are tied and all the money they've spent on a deposit and the work they've done is going to go down the pan unless they just accept the leasehold.

 

All boils down to the legality of refusing to replace you with the new people on the freehold. I'd listen carefully to the arguments on that. If it seems you will win the case (despite the costs) i would threaten him in a letter that you will contest it in court and that you intent to sue for losses too.

 

We've made the threat and he hasn't blinked. Don't think we'd lose in court, we can show he contributed nothing to the original management company so his insistence that we fund it's resurrection is absurd.....but I know for a fact, even if the decision goes our way and even if they reward us costs.....we'll never get it out of him. If we're going to be out of pocket anyway I'd rather not go through the hassle.

 

Reading it again if freehold wasn't on the terms the auctioneers supplied, the contractual law is between the vendor and the auctioneer. I'd hold out on that one for a start.

 

MODERN LIFE is about everybody taking money out of YOUR BANK, the key is to stop that. STOP PAYING MONEY for things that you aren't using.

 

That's where I think the crux is. The auctioneers had it down as a freehold, but when we had to supply 5 or 6 documents to them before they'd go ahead, the freehold wasn't one of them. We went for the unconditional sale thinking that any shite like this (which we obviously feared) would fall to the buyers who knew what they were getting into when the bought the place for a knock-down price. The conditional type auction was cheaper but wasn't necessarily final. Unfortunately witholding their cash isn't an option as the auctioneers take their money out of the 10% deposit so it's not like we can refuse to pay them....in fact they're holding some cash they owe to us leftover after their fee until the deal is done.

Edited September 13, 2010 by Happy Face

[Ruler of Planet Houston 1]

Reet, I've got a property (not really, but someone close has) I had on the market for ages which I decided to sell in an auction. It's a maisonette with 3 flats sharing an entrance. So we all own our leases but the freehold is shared between all 3.

 

Following the auction the buyer paid the 10% deposit but their lender refused to release the funds for the rest after 28 days because one of the other 2 that share the freehold hadn't agreed to give consent to the new person replacing me on the freehold (and still refuses to do so).

 

I've been paying the mortgage on this place for 6 months plus since the auction while the new buyers have been in doing work on it in anticipation of it getting sorted.

 

The barrister finally sent out terms for taking the arsehole to court to get consent....but it's going to cost upwards of £3k...of which the best we could hope of getting back in costs would be 80%...possibly none.

 

Given the outstanding mortgage on the place and the auctioneers fees and the potential court costs, if it does get sorted it will be at a loss for me.

 

What would you advise?

 

Can I just walk away from the auction sale and put it back on the market as lease only? Do property's sell as lease only?

 

Who would the buyer chase for their money back? Me or the auctioneer (who didn't hold the freehold they included in the auction and never asked for any signed evidence before the auction)?

 

What are banks like for chasing you for money if you want to walk away? Does it depend on the equity left in the property or will they always chase they mortgage holder for the money rather than take ownership of the property?

 

Sounds like you just made a mistake, not realising you couldn't sell it freehold without signed consent from the others. By my understanding, that would make it you that has to return the deposit. But, if the auctioneer didn't include any terms in the contract that said you are 'agreeing you have a right to sell the freehold', then they can't do anything to you i.e. your contract with them is fine and upheld. Otherwise, you will probably still owe them fees.

 

DON'T stop paying anyone - you aren't in the shit enough yet to take that route. The bank will not just take the property out of your life and slap your wrist, they will hound you with debt collectors for months or years until eventually declaring you bankrupt...then take it, along with anything else that makes up what you owe them (which will be a hell of a lot more than the house is worth or what you owe now because the years they chase you, they will be adding masses of interest and legal fees on top.

 

Go to a 'specialist property' solicitor for a free half hour interview and see what they can offer you.

[Park Life 71]

Let's get back to basics.

 

Have you/the agent actually sold the property ie exchanged final contracts?

 

 

**Reg credit ratings there's a lot of nonsense talked about it. Nobody wants to harm your rating cause every mother wants to lend you more money. There is a due prcess before your credit rating is harmed and that process is at least 6 months of exchange of demands and options and whatnot. The bank isn't going to guantanamo you till the'ye spoken to you via letter and phone at least a dozen times. This is the least of your worries at this point.

[Happy Face 29]

Sounds like you just made a mistake, not realising you couldn't sell it freehold without signed consent from the others. By my understanding, that would make it you that has to return the deposit. But, if the auctioneer didn't include any terms in the contract that said you are 'agreeing you have a right to sell the freehold', then they can't do anything to you i.e. your contract with them is fine and upheld. Otherwise, you will probably still owe them fees.

 

Not sure we made the mistake like. The auctioneer provides a checklist of legal documents they need before the property can go to auction. This is to ensure the unconditional sale can go through within 28 days. Your average homeseller isn't really going to be versed enough in property law to start telling the professionals what they've missed off a list like that are they?

 

The buyers have no contract with us, just with the auctioneer. Exchange of contracts with us cannot be completed until the freehold is in place.

 

All the fees are paid. They're payable up front and then taken from the deposit...which has been paid.

 

 

DON'T stop paying anyone - you aren't in the shit enough yet to take that route. The bank will not just take the property out of your life and slap your wrist, they will hound you with debt collectors for months or years until eventually declaring you bankrupt...then take it, along with anything else that makes up what you owe them (which will be a hell of a lot more than the house is worth or what you owe now because the years they chase you, they will be adding masses of interest and legal fees on top.

 

Go to a 'specialist property' solicitor for a free half hour interview and see what they can offer you.

 

We're not going to stop paying anything and no-one's going bankrupt. There's tons of equity in the place but it's not in a state to be rented out at the minute and we can't be arsed to do the work on it. Just trying to come up with the most cost effective way of getting out of there. Don't want to be tied in to an auction and legal battle that will mean the sale takes us into a loss.

[Happy Face 29]

Let's get back to basics.

 

Have you/the agent actually sold the property ie exchanged final contracts?

 

No, exchange of contracts depended on a freehold in place.

 

You reckon we can get away with whacking it back on the market leasehold only?

[Park Life 71]

Let's get back to basics.

 

Have you/the agent actually sold the property ie exchanged final contracts?

 

No, exchange of contracts depended on a freehold in place.

 

You reckon we can get away with whacking it back on the market leasehold only?

 

Right the root of the problem is the shared freehold which entails rights others have reg having to agree to hand over a share of the property as a whole to the new owner.

 

If you keep yourself as the freeholder/share of said property nobody has to sign anything right ? And bearing in mind this fucker won't sign it is the salient option (Why won't he sign, what is the real reason have you asked?)

 

It is important if you are still paying the mortgage to get it back on the market under a leashold (the lease being to you). But the actual costs of maintenenace etc will have to be continued to be born by YOU, this is the downside of selling it leasehold and remaining the one with the rights of a freeholder.

 

So, back on the market with a 99yr lease is the way to go although this will take a hit on the price, but money will be freed up once you get rid of it. Freeing up YOUR MONEY is what the game is all about. Try and use other peoples money AT ALL TIMES.

 

Not sure about some of the finer points which will be to do with the various contractual obligations of the freeholders (you and the other incumbents) but at a broad stroke it is important to keep the selling ball in the air otherwise you are burning cash. The might be other local laws with regard to freeholder rights in your area, but the lawyer would have alerted you to anything if there was something weird.

 

Is renting it out an option?

 

Is offering the bloke money an option?

 

Is nuking the site from orbit an option?

 

Sounds stressful and I hope you get it sorted, But be firm with all concerned and NEVER PAY ANYBODY YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE TO PAY AND WHO HAVEN'T ALREADY ASKED 3 TIMES.

 

P.

[Happy Face 29]

Cheers Parky. Canny stressful aye.

 

Renting isn't an option, but I never for one second considered giving the bell-end money. Can't believe it never occurred to me. It would feel like wearing a Mackem strip but might well be the cheapest option keeping everyone happy.

[Park Life 71]

Cheers Parky. Canny stressful aye.

 

Renting isn't an option, but I never for one second considered giving the bell-end money. Can't believe it never occurred to me. It would feel like wearing a Mackem strip but might well be the cheapest option keeping everyone happy.

 

If you estimate the legal fees as 3k offer the geezer 2k (an estimated legal bill of 3k will turn out to be 5k). Think of it as business and take emotions out of it.

 

My uncle used to go round and throw people out of windows but that is another story.

 

Good luck!

[Happy Face 29]

Cheers Parky. Canny stressful aye.

 

Renting isn't an option, but I never for one second considered giving the bell-end money. Can't believe it never occurred to me. It would feel like wearing a Mackem strip but might well be the cheapest option keeping everyone happy.

 

If you estimate the legal fees as 3k offer the geezer 2k (an estimated legal bill of 3k will turn out to be 5k). Think of it as business and take emotions out of it.

 

My uncle used to go round and throw people out of windows but that is another story.

 

Good luck!

 

Aye. Makes perfect sense to me. As a cold logical mathematician I can see it's the ideal way to go....whether my family can see it will be another matter

[Ruler of Planet Houston 1]

I bet if you told him to sign otherwise you will have to resort to renting it out to students he'd soon get his pen ready

[Happy Face 29]

I bet if you told him to sign otherwise you will have to resort to renting it out to students he'd soon get his pen ready

 

That might be contributing to his arseholeyness if I'm honest.....we've had some reet radgies in there

[Happy Face 29]

The court decided today that the bell-end has to sign his authority to change the freehold in 7 days or they'll do it for him. 2 years later.

 

Thank christ. It's been sat empty this whole time, spent the best part of £10k since the auction trying to get it sorted.

 

My advice to anyone buying a property. Don't go through an auction and make sure you own 100% of the freehold.

[Happy Face 29]

...anyone that said courts...you got the right (expensive) answer. Thanks for all the advice.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

don't mention it.

[ewerk 30669]

Any joy reclaiming costs?

[Happy Face 29]

Any joy reclaiming costs?

 

We were awarded £3k+

 

He's not gonna pay it though.

 

We'll get it noted on his property so we get it if he sells, but don't think he ever will. Proper dodgy bloke, he's got about 15 different names he uses and we don't believe the name of the owner on the freehold is anyone that actually exists. Which our solicitor reckons you could get away with years ago, but now you have to have 3 bits of original ID to buy or sell, it leaves him in limbo.

[Gemmill 44995]

I've got a freehold/leasehold problem myself at the minute. Don't want to get into detail cos it's a pretty specific situation and you never know who knows who that could be looking in.

 

Suffice to say though, it's incredibly frustrating and is threatening to blow our chances of getting the house we've reserved, got a mortgage for, ordered kitchen and carpets for etc.

 

Pleased to hear you're getting to the end of your mess with this, HF, and all the best to your mam and brother. I know a lass who had a bunch of aneurysms operated on and she's fine. Fit too.