Old Board vs New Board

[LeazesMag 0]

This debate always revolves around the position we were in when SJH/FF sold up, not what they achieved. NUFC were in deep shit when SJH bought the club. Languishing near the bottom of the second division, playing in front of 20,000 supporters in a fairly cruddy stadium and staring bankruptcy in the face. Fifteenish years later we were an established top flight club packing 50,000 plus supporters into one the country’s best stadiums. We’d regularly qualified for Europe, broken the world transfer record and been privileged to watch some of the world’s best players pull on the black and white. The cost of this transformation? A debt of £77m.

 

Compare this to the Ashley who has increased the debt by £200m in three years and achieved nothing at all.

 

SJH/FF were far from perfect but this is no contest.

 

 

 

The mortgage and unpaid purchases accounts for 80m, or does that not suit your argument? Then you have things like sponsorship money spent years in advance, no European football revenue, an overpaid squad that has no chance of European football (Dyer on 80k, ffs) and a shite manager that the Shepards and Halls would have sacked or worse backed him with money we didn't have.

 

Agreed.

 

There's more than enough screw ups to shame each of the owners on their own terms going back decades, no need to conflate what they screwed up.

 

There's no question who took the club forward most though.

 

No disagreement from me with any of these sort of comments. Refreshing to see most posters now realising the truth of what has happened at the football club.

 

Let's hope the next owner have ambition and realise how big a club it is and what it is capable of achieving.

[Park Life 71]

99.9% of this board and Newcastle Fans couldnt give a fuck about the Halls and Shepherds raping the club for all it was worth because they gave us a nice ride along the way.

 

99.9% of this board and Newcastle Fans realise that they then fucked the club up, were dragging it downwards and were only too happy to cash in and get out.

 

99.9% of this board and Newcastle Fans then got on with life.

 

0.1 % of this board cant get over his dismissal from another board and not being able to re-argue his case against his old foes.

 

 

In 5 years time when Im proved right about Ashleys intentions and his five year plan, do you seriously think Im going to waste my twilight years trying to prove to total strangers how clever I was and how thick they were?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You betcha!

 

 

[LeazesMag 0]

99.9% of this board and Newcastle Fans couldnt give a fuck about the Halls and Shepherds raping the club for all it was worth because they gave us a nice ride along the way.

 

99.9% of this board and Newcastle Fans realise that they then fucked the club up, were dragging it downwards and were only too happy to cash in and get out.

 

99.9% of this board and Newcastle Fans then got on with life.

 

0.1 % of this board cant get over his dismissal from another board and not being able to re-argue his case against his old foes.

 

 

In 5 years time when Im proved right about Ashleys intentions and his five year plan, do you seriously think Im going to waste my twilight years trying to prove to total strangers how clever I was and how thick they were?

 

You betcha!

 

somebody should put in a taxi mate ...

 

preferably the boot and throw away the key

[ChezGiven 0]

Its funny reading comments now about how great Shepherd was because there are only 4 posters on here who had anything remotley positive to say about him at the time. If he was that good, why was Leazes about the only one defending him back in 2005 etc?

 

Those 4 posters for the record are Leazes, me, Parky and alex.* I can hold me head high and say that during their era, i was pointing out how far the club had come whereas 99% of people on here and NO were calling him a fat cunt and wanted him out.

 

I'm obviously odd as i look back slightly more critically now, when you see the vast amounts of profit the two families made from the club and find the irony compelling. The club was in decline, Ashley accelerated that decline and now has reversed it somewhat. Saying that he wants us to float between the championship and the premiership to make profits year on year may be true or just ill-informed polemic. I would have said the former 12 months ago but the last 2 windows have made me pause for thought. My scientific training teaches me to keep collecting data and to keep updating my assumptions. The Hughton episode has been particularly difficult to interpret because of multiple possible motivations. Again, time (Jan 31st, 2011) will tell.

 

* Apologies if missed any current regulars off here, i cant think of anyone.

[ewerk 31363]

You can't count Parky, he's just a contrary fucker.

[Guest]

This debate always revolves around the position we were in when SJH/FF sold up, not what they achieved. NUFC were in deep shit when SJH bought the club. Languishing near the bottom of the second division, playing in front of 20,000 supporters in a fairly cruddy stadium and staring bankruptcy in the face. Fifteenish years later we were an established top flight club packing 50,000 plus supporters into one the country’s best stadiums. We’d regularly qualified for Europe, broken the world transfer record and been privileged to watch some of the world’s best players pull on the black and white. The cost of this transformation? A debt of £77m.

 

Compare this to the Ashley who has increased the debt by £200m in three years and achieved nothing at all.

 

SJH/FF were far from perfect but this is no contest.

 

 

 

The mortgage and unpaid purchases accounts for 80m, or does that not suit your argument? Then you have things like sponsorship money spent years in advance, no European football revenue, an overpaid squad that has no chance of European football (Dyer on 80k, ffs) and a shite manager that the Shepards and Halls would have sacked or worse backed him with money we didn't have.

 

Agreed.

 

There's more than enough screw ups to shame each of the owners on their own terms going back decades, no need to conflate what they screwed up.

 

There's no question who took the club forward most though.

 

No disagreement from me with any of these sort of comments. Refreshing to see most posters now realising the truth of what has happened at the football club.

 

Let's hope the next owner have ambition and realise how big a club it is and what it is capable of achieving.

 

 

And do what?

[Guest alex]

Its funny reading comments now about how great Shepherd was because there are only 4 posters on here who had anything remotley positive to say about him at the time. If he was that good, why was Leazes about the only one defending him back in 2005 etc?

 

Those 4 posters for the record are Leazes, me, Parky and alex.* I can hold me head high and say that during their era, i was pointing out how far the club had come whereas 99% of people on here and NO were calling him a fat cunt and wanted him out.

 

I'm obviously odd as i look back slightly more critically now, when you see the vast amounts of profit the two families made from the club and find the irony compelling. The club was in decline, Ashley accelerated that decline and now has reversed it somewhat. Saying that he wants us to float between the championship and the premiership to make profits year on year may be true or just ill-informed polemic. I would have said the former 12 months ago but the last 2 windows have made me pause for thought. My scientific training teaches me to keep collecting data and to keep updating my assumptions. The Hughton episode has been particularly difficult to interpret because of multiple possible motivations. Again, time (Jan 31st, 2011) will tell.

 

* Apologies if missed any current regulars off here, i cant think of anyone.

We've never had an honest vision of what he has in store for the club, assuming a long or even medium term plan exists or ever has done. I think that's why people are always trying to second guess what he's doing and the motives behind that.

[Holden McGroin 6864]

I actually didn't mind Shepard. A lot of posters were annoyed by him constantly being in the limelight but that didnt really bother me.

[Park Life 71]

Its funny reading comments now about how great Shepherd was because there are only 4 posters on here who had anything remotley positive to say about him at the time. If he was that good, why was Leazes about the only one defending him back in 2005 etc?

 

Those 4 posters for the record are Leazes, me, Parky and alex.* I can hold me head high and say that during their era, i was pointing out how far the club had come whereas 99% of people on here and NO were calling him a fat cunt and wanted him out.

 

I'm obviously odd as i look back slightly more critically now, when you see the vast amounts of profit the two families made from the club and find the irony compelling. The club was in decline, Ashley accelerated that decline and now has reversed it somewhat. Saying that he wants us to float between the championship and the premiership to make profits year on year may be true or just ill-informed polemic. I would have said the former 12 months ago but the last 2 windows have made me pause for thought. My scientific training teaches me to keep collecting data and to keep updating my assumptions. The Hughton episode has been particularly difficult to interpret because of multiple possible motivations. Again, time (Jan 31st, 2011) will tell.

 

* Apologies if missed any current regulars off here, i cant think of anyone.

We've never had an honest vision of what he has in store for the club, assuming a long or even medium term plan exists or ever has done. I think that's why people are always trying to second guess what he's doing and the motives behind that.

 

I honestly think that is cause he's changed his mind a few times regarding long term commitment and other factors like the financial crisis (which still hasn't washed out of the system, regardless of lapdog media suggestions). Think for a billionaire he is a very strange mix and a real lottery when it comes to second guessing his next move. I don't really mind him for that as his main life experience will have been to do with ultra competitive scenarios and survival and the fact that he has had to work really hard (had some luck as well) to get his money.

[Holden McGroin 6864]

Anyone buying into Ashleys 5 year plan need to book themselves into their local mental hospital. We've had 3 years already and have gone backwards.

[Guest]

Anyone buying into Ashleys 5 year plan need to book themselves into their local mental hospital. We've had 3 years already and have gone backwards.

 

 

And then forwards again.

[Guest alex]

Its funny reading comments now about how great Shepherd was because there are only 4 posters on here who had anything remotley positive to say about him at the time. If he was that good, why was Leazes about the only one defending him back in 2005 etc?

 

Those 4 posters for the record are Leazes, me, Parky and alex.* I can hold me head high and say that during their era, i was pointing out how far the club had come whereas 99% of people on here and NO were calling him a fat cunt and wanted him out.

 

I'm obviously odd as i look back slightly more critically now, when you see the vast amounts of profit the two families made from the club and find the irony compelling. The club was in decline, Ashley accelerated that decline and now has reversed it somewhat. Saying that he wants us to float between the championship and the premiership to make profits year on year may be true or just ill-informed polemic. I would have said the former 12 months ago but the last 2 windows have made me pause for thought. My scientific training teaches me to keep collecting data and to keep updating my assumptions. The Hughton episode has been particularly difficult to interpret because of multiple possible motivations. Again, time (Jan 31st, 2011) will tell.

 

* Apologies if missed any current regulars off here, i cant think of anyone.

We've never had an honest vision of what he has in store for the club, assuming a long or even medium term plan exists or ever has done. I think that's why people are always trying to second guess what he's doing and the motives behind that.

 

I honestly think that is cause he's changed his mind a few times regarding long term commitment and other factors like the financial crisis (which still hasn't washed out of the system, regardless of lapdog media suggestions). Think for a billionaire he is a very strange mix and a real lottery when it comes to second guessing his next move. I don't really mind him for that as his main life experience will have been to do with ultra competitive scenarios and survival and the fact that he has had to work really hard (had some luck as well) to get his money.

I think he's changed his mind a few times as well. Again though, he could've been more open about that and built up a far better relationship with the fans on the back of it, i.e. "I planned to do A, but the financial crisis hit me in the pocket, so it's now a case of plan B". In lieu of that there's a strong suspicion that he's taking the piss out of the fans etc.

[Guest]

Give me this team over the one we had when Ashley bought us every single time. Anybody here feel the opposite?

[Holden McGroin 6864]

Give me this team over the one we had when Ashley bought us every single time. Anybody here feel the opposite?

 

I like the team better now but they had better quality players and more of chance to break into Europe when dickface first took over.

Edited December 17, 2010 by Holden McGroin

[Guest]

Give me this team over the one we had when Ashley bought us every single time. Anybody here feel the opposite?

 

I like the team better now but they had better quality players and more of chance to break into Europe when dickface first took over.

 

 

No mate, they had players that we're perceived as better quality, when in fact they were by and large overpaid lazy has beens.

[Holden McGroin 6864]

Give me this team over the one we had when Ashley bought us every single time. Anybody here feel the opposite?

 

I like the team better now but they had better quality players and more of chance to break into Europe when dickface first took over.

 

 

No mate, they had players that we're perceived as better quality, when in fact they were by and large overpaid lazy has beens.

 

Perhaps, although we have lower aspirations for the team now. Most supporters are happy just to stay up this season so the current crop are over achieving in this sense.

[Christmas Tree 4913]

Give me this team over the one we had when Ashley bought us every single time. Anybody here feel the opposite?

 

I like the team better now but they had better quality players and more of chance to break into Europe when dickface first took over.

 

 

No mate, they had players that we're perceived as better quality, when in fact they were by and large overpaid lazy has beens.

 

Perhaps, although we have lower aspirations for the team now. Most supporters are happy just to stay up this season so the current crop are over achieving in this sense.

 

 

As we were then

[Holden McGroin 6864]

Give me this team over the one we had when Ashley bought us every single time. Anybody here feel the opposite?

 

I like the team better now but they had better quality players and more of chance to break into Europe when dickface first took over.

 

 

No mate, they had players that we're perceived as better quality, when in fact they were by and large overpaid lazy has beens.

 

Perhaps, although we have lower aspirations for the team now. Most supporters are happy just to stay up this season so the current crop are over achieving in this sense.

 

 

As we were then

 

When Ashley first took over? Hardly.

[Christmas Tree 4913]

Give me this team over the one we had when Ashley bought us every single time. Anybody here feel the opposite?

 

I like the team better now but they had better quality players and more of chance to break into Europe when dickface first took over.

 

 

No mate, they had players that we're perceived as better quality, when in fact they were by and large overpaid lazy has beens.

 

Perhaps, although we have lower aspirations for the team now. Most supporters are happy just to stay up this season so the current crop are over achieving in this sense.

 

 

As we were then

 

When Ashley first took over? Hardly.

 

We'd just finished five points off the drop man.

[ChezGiven 0]

Its funny reading comments now about how great Shepherd was because there are only 4 posters on here who had anything remotley positive to say about him at the time. If he was that good, why was Leazes about the only one defending him back in 2005 etc?

 

Those 4 posters for the record are Leazes, me, Parky and alex.* I can hold me head high and say that during their era, i was pointing out how far the club had come whereas 99% of people on here and NO were calling him a fat cunt and wanted him out.

 

I'm obviously odd as i look back slightly more critically now, when you see the vast amounts of profit the two families made from the club and find the irony compelling. The club was in decline, Ashley accelerated that decline and now has reversed it somewhat. Saying that he wants us to float between the championship and the premiership to make profits year on year may be true or just ill-informed polemic. I would have said the former 12 months ago but the last 2 windows have made me pause for thought. My scientific training teaches me to keep collecting data and to keep updating my assumptions. The Hughton episode has been particularly difficult to interpret because of multiple possible motivations. Again, time (Jan 31st, 2011) will tell.

 

* Apologies if missed any current regulars off here, i cant think of anyone.

We've never had an honest vision of what he has in store for the club, assuming a long or even medium term plan exists or ever has done. I think that's why people are always trying to second guess what he's doing and the motives behind that.

 

I honestly think that is cause he's changed his mind a few times regarding long term commitment and other factors like the financial crisis (which still hasn't washed out of the system, regardless of lapdog media suggestions). Think for a billionaire he is a very strange mix and a real lottery when it comes to second guessing his next move. I don't really mind him for that as his main life experience will have been to do with ultra competitive scenarios and survival and the fact that he has had to work really hard (had some luck as well) to get his money.

I think he's changed his mind a few times as well. Again though, he could've been more open about that and built up a far better relationship with the fans on the back of it, i.e. "I planned to do A, but the financial crisis hit me in the pocket, so it's now a case of plan B". In lieu of that there's a strong suspicion that he's taking the piss out of the fans etc.

And the most ridiculous thing of all is that his fear of being honest has led him to say the most outrageous lies which is far more contemptuous of the fans than if he had just said 'am cutting back for a couple of seasons, put your ambition on hold, i'll not let us do a Leeds but thats about it'.

 

I dont think he has ever understood the dynamic of how the fan's passions actually work. Yes people shout and spit venom when things go wrong but trying to lie your way out of it is far worse in the long run.

[Guest alex]

Give me this team over the one we had when Ashley bought us every single time. Anybody here feel the opposite?

 

I like the team better now but they had better quality players and more of chance to break into Europe when dickface first took over.

 

 

No mate, they had players that we're perceived as better quality, when in fact they were by and large overpaid lazy has beens.

 

Perhaps, although we have lower aspirations for the team now. Most supporters are happy just to stay up this season so the current crop are over achieving in this sense.

 

 

As we were then

 

When Ashley first took over? Hardly.

 

We'd just finished five points off the drop man.

And the fans were happy about that at the time were they? Nice try though, CT.

Edited December 17, 2010 by alex

[Christmas Tree 4913]

Its funny reading comments now about how great Shepherd was because there are only 4 posters on here who had anything remotley positive to say about him at the time. If he was that good, why was Leazes about the only one defending him back in 2005 etc?

 

Those 4 posters for the record are Leazes, me, Parky and alex.* I can hold me head high and say that during their era, i was pointing out how far the club had come whereas 99% of people on here and NO were calling him a fat cunt and wanted him out.

 

I'm obviously odd as i look back slightly more critically now, when you see the vast amounts of profit the two families made from the club and find the irony compelling. The club was in decline, Ashley accelerated that decline and now has reversed it somewhat. Saying that he wants us to float between the championship and the premiership to make profits year on year may be true or just ill-informed polemic. I would have said the former 12 months ago but the last 2 windows have made me pause for thought. My scientific training teaches me to keep collecting data and to keep updating my assumptions. The Hughton episode has been particularly difficult to interpret because of multiple possible motivations. Again, time (Jan 31st, 2011) will tell.

 

* Apologies if missed any current regulars off here, i cant think of anyone.

We've never had an honest vision of what he has in store for the club, assuming a long or even medium term plan exists or ever has done. I think that's why people are always trying to second guess what he's doing and the motives behind that.

 

I honestly think that is cause he's changed his mind a few times regarding long term commitment and other factors like the financial crisis (which still hasn't washed out of the system, regardless of lapdog media suggestions). Think for a billionaire he is a very strange mix and a real lottery when it comes to second guessing his next move. I don't really mind him for that as his main life experience will have been to do with ultra competitive scenarios and survival and the fact that he has had to work really hard (had some luck as well) to get his money.

I think he's changed his mind a few times as well. Again though, he could've been more open about that and built up a far better relationship with the fans on the back of it, i.e. "I planned to do A, but the financial crisis hit me in the pocket, so it's now a case of plan B". In lieu of that there's a strong suspicion that he's taking the piss out of the fans etc.

And the most ridiculous thing of all is that his fear of being honest has led him to say the most outrageous lies which is far more contemptuous of the fans than if he had just said 'am cutting back for a couple of seasons, put your ambition on hold, i'll not let us do a Leeds but thats about it'.

 

I dont think he has ever understood the dynamic of how the fan's passions actually work. Yes people shout and spit venom when things go wrong but trying to lie your way out of it is far worse in the long run.

 

 

Through his staff, Mort etc, I think he did start off with a very open agenda. The KK walk out , fans reaction etc has had him on the back foot ever since.

 

They have tried to re-emerge from the bunker, most notably with that Journal / chronicle fiasco of an interview.

 

Following that we all used to say we just wished they shut up......which they have since done Didnt they even put a statement out at the start of the year saying they wouldnt be making any statements

[Guest alex]

Its funny reading comments now about how great Shepherd was because there are only 4 posters on here who had anything remotley positive to say about him at the time. If he was that good, why was Leazes about the only one defending him back in 2005 etc?

 

Those 4 posters for the record are Leazes, me, Parky and alex.* I can hold me head high and say that during their era, i was pointing out how far the club had come whereas 99% of people on here and NO were calling him a fat cunt and wanted him out.

 

I'm obviously odd as i look back slightly more critically now, when you see the vast amounts of profit the two families made from the club and find the irony compelling. The club was in decline, Ashley accelerated that decline and now has reversed it somewhat. Saying that he wants us to float between the championship and the premiership to make profits year on year may be true or just ill-informed polemic. I would have said the former 12 months ago but the last 2 windows have made me pause for thought. My scientific training teaches me to keep collecting data and to keep updating my assumptions. The Hughton episode has been particularly difficult to interpret because of multiple possible motivations. Again, time (Jan 31st, 2011) will tell.

 

* Apologies if missed any current regulars off here, i cant think of anyone.

We've never had an honest vision of what he has in store for the club, assuming a long or even medium term plan exists or ever has done. I think that's why people are always trying to second guess what he's doing and the motives behind that.

 

I honestly think that is cause he's changed his mind a few times regarding long term commitment and other factors like the financial crisis (which still hasn't washed out of the system, regardless of lapdog media suggestions). Think for a billionaire he is a very strange mix and a real lottery when it comes to second guessing his next move. I don't really mind him for that as his main life experience will have been to do with ultra competitive scenarios and survival and the fact that he has had to work really hard (had some luck as well) to get his money.

I think he's changed his mind a few times as well. Again though, he could've been more open about that and built up a far better relationship with the fans on the back of it, i.e. "I planned to do A, but the financial crisis hit me in the pocket, so it's now a case of plan B". In lieu of that there's a strong suspicion that he's taking the piss out of the fans etc.

And the most ridiculous thing of all is that his fear of being honest has led him to say the most outrageous lies which is far more contemptuous of the fans than if he had just said 'am cutting back for a couple of seasons, put your ambition on hold, i'll not let us do a Leeds but thats about it'.

 

I dont think he has ever understood the dynamic of how the fan's passions actually work. Yes people shout and spit venom when things go wrong but trying to lie your way out of it is far worse in the long run.

I think you're right there. I think he probably underestimated the fans at first then got his fingers well and truly burnt over the Wise/Keegan debacle and has never really had the confidence to trust the fans with the truth since. The lies have actually made things worse and have obscured some of the good things he has done. His fault like.

[Christmas Tree 4913]

Give me this team over the one we had when Ashley bought us every single time. Anybody here feel the opposite?

 

I like the team better now but they had better quality players and more of chance to break into Europe when dickface first took over.

 

 

No mate, they had players that we're perceived as better quality, when in fact they were by and large overpaid lazy has beens.

 

Perhaps, although we have lower aspirations for the team now. Most supporters are happy just to stay up this season so the current crop are over achieving in this sense.

 

 

As we were then

 

When Ashley first took over? Hardly.

 

We'd just finished five points off the drop man.

And the fans were happy about that at the time were they? Nice try though, CT.

 

 

No they wernt, thats the point skidmarks making. You've lost me im afraid.

[Guest alex]

Give me this team over the one we had when Ashley bought us every single time. Anybody here feel the opposite?

 

I like the team better now but they had better quality players and more of chance to break into Europe when dickface first took over.

 

 

No mate, they had players that we're perceived as better quality, when in fact they were by and large overpaid lazy has beens.

 

Perhaps, although we have lower aspirations for the team now. Most supporters are happy just to stay up this season so the current crop are over achieving in this sense.

 

 

As we were then

 

When Ashley first took over? Hardly.

 

We'd just finished five points off the drop man.

And the fans were happy about that at the time were they? Nice try though, CT.

 

 

No they wernt, thats the point skidmarks making. You've lost me im afraid.

Christ