"Germany does away with itself"

[ChezGiven 0]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/03/world/eu...1&ref=world

 

BERLIN — When a German banker and former government official spoke publicly about a unique “Jewish gene,” when he attacked Islam as a source of violence and stunted development and when he espoused genetic theories that evoked the fright of the Nazi past, the political leadership here quickly condemned him as racist and called for him to be fired.

 

German central bank executive Thilo Sarrazin’s disparaging comments about Muslim immigrants have triggered a heated debate on race and integration in Germany.

But the banker, Thilo Sarrazin, an executive with the central bank and a former Berlin finance minister, has not emerged as the marginalized hate-monger that the initial condemnation suggested. His book, “Germany Does Away With Itself,” which laments the growing number of Muslim immigrants, contending that they are “dumbing down” society, was released Monday and is already in its fourth printing, with sales expected to exceed 150,000 copies, according to his publisher.

 

Mr. Sarrazin has set off a painful public discussion here that highlights one of the nation’s most vexing challenges: how to overcome what is widely seen as a failed immigration policy that over decades has done little to support and integrate the nearly 20 percent of the population with an immigrant background. It is a policy that also stokes anti-Islamic sentiment and hostility.

 

The sensation of Mr. Sarrazin’s book and his unrepentant posture have also provoked something less tangible, but perhaps more troublesome for policy makers here eager to keep the radical right from gaining a foothold as they have in other parts of Europe. Under the cover of speaking truth to power, Mr. Sarrazin has tried to legitimize hate speech, his critics say.

 

One of the most telling signs of the growing distance between native Germans and immigrants, officials say, is the observation that the grandchildren of immigrants are less likely to integrate into German society and less likely to apply for citizenship compared with members of previous generations, creating an ethnic underclass in education and employment. Residents from immigrant families are twice as likely as other Germans to be unemployed.

 

“This issue is now more important for Germany than the economy,” said Wolfgang Nowak, former senior adviser to the previous chancellor, Gerhard Schröder, and the head of Deutsche Bank’s International Forum. Mr. Nowak argues that Mr. Sarrazin has done his country a favor by forcing the topic to the top of the political agenda and crashing through the barriers of political correctness.

 

“The condemnation of his book is an automatic reflex of a generation raised after Hitler,” he said.

 

Even some who found his approach offensive said that Mr. Sarrazin had “addressed a problem that will remain long after the waves of outrage have subsided: the enormous integration deficit of the Muslim minority in Germany, or at least of disturbingly large parts of it,” said an article in the center-left newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung.

 

In a newspaper interview published the day before the book was released, Mr. Sarrazin also spoke of a Jewish gene, a reference to recent studies showing that Jews share many genes inherited from the ancestral population that lived in the Middle East long ago. He was criticized by everyone, including the chancellor, Angela Merkel.

 

His party wants to kick him out, and the bank is considering firing him. On Thursday, the board of the bank voted to ask Germany’s president to dismiss Mr. Sarrazin from the board, and Mrs. Merkel applauded the decision.

 

Mr. Sarrazin’s stance, and the traction it has gained, has alarmed many, in part because he is not a member of the extreme right but a longtime member of the center-left Social Democrats and the former top financial official for the city of Berlin, one of the centers of the immigrant community.

 

“If he were an extremist, no one would pay attention,” said Hatice Akyün, a writer who has debated Mr. Sarrazin and condemned his theories of the innate inferiority of immigrants. “He is a Social Democrat. You cannot do what he is doing, not in this country. You cannot give this kind of thinking a democratic base.”

 

Ms. Akyün, whose father came to Germany from Turkey in 1969 to work as a miner, said that the debate often came down to the difference between integration, which she said immigrants and their families accept, even desire, and assimilation, which they reject.

 

Maxim Biller, whose family moved to Germany from Prague when he was a child, said, “The only chance for acceptance in German society is total assimilation, don’t hold onto our traditions.”

 

Mr. Sarrazin, who wears small, round glasses and has a stern face topped by a shock of mostly white hair, said that he wanted to highlight what he described as the drain on Germany by an immigrant class.

 

In his book, he criticized Islam and blamed Muslim immigrants for refusing to integrate. He also blamed Germany for being too generous with its social benefits, which he said attracted immigrants looking for handouts. “No other religion in Europe is so demanding and no other migration group depends so much on the social welfare state and is so much connected to criminality,” he wrote in one passage.

 

Germany has had a difficult time coming to terms with its immigrant population. Next year will be the 50th anniversary of the guest-worker program for migrants, mostly Turks. Originally, the plan was for the workers to return, though that idea evaporated in the 1970s when Germany allowed workers’ families to move here, said Gunter Piening, an official who deals with integration and migration issues for Berlin.

 

“The German philosophy was, ‘We are not a migration country,’ ” he said. “There were migrants, but there was no migrant policy.”

 

It was only in 2005 that Germany acknowledged that it had become a destination country, a shift that was not accompanied by a practical plan, Mr. Piening said. That has slowly begun to change, he said.

 

Recently, for example, Berlin revamped its secondary education system because it recognized that children of immigrants were “getting an education which was good for nothing, a dead end.” Steps have been taken to also allow Muslims to be buried without coffins — the custom for Muslims is to be wrapped in a shroud — a small measure if ultimately adopted, but one that would nonetheless help make Muslims feel more welcome, Mr. Piening said.

 

It is not, however, entirely benevolent as German officials recognize that they will need immigrants in coming years. According to a recent survey by the German Chambers of Industry and Commerce there will be six million fewer Germans of working age by 2030.

Edited October 17, 2010 by ChezGiven

[AgentAxeman 189]

had on,

 

the vast majority of jews DO have genes specific to their particular race, as do the vast majority of whites, blacks, asians, etc....

 

sounds more like the pc, liberal, left wing, lets love all our fellow men spouting crap to me. ie. he's said something which is true but which could stir up trouble so better brand him a racist just to make sure that he's not taken seriously.

 

........or am i missing something here

 

 

 

 

Edit: sorry, that should read genetic traits

Edited September 3, 2010 by AgentAxeman

[ChezGiven 0]

I guess if any group of people have a shared appearance it means they have a shared genetic make up. You cant say that in Germany though, its social democracy gone mad tbh.

[Park Life 71]

The Germans are still way behind on all this integration stuff compared to us.

[Guest Tuco Ramirez]

The Germans are still way behind on all this integration stuff compared to us.

They've all got that little bit of Hitler in them as far as I'm concerned. Too orderly for my liking.

[Dr Gloom 22185]

The Germans are still way behind on all this integration stuff compared to us.

They've all got that little bit of Hitler in them as far as I'm concerned. Too orderly for my liking.

 

[Dr Gloom 22185]

Mr. Sarrazin, who wears small, round glasses and has a stern face

 

 

[Park Life 71]

The Germans are still way behind on all this integration stuff compared to us.

They've all got that little bit of Hitler in them as far as I'm concerned. Too orderly for my liking.

 

 

Mrs P's tidyness drives me up the wall. Even at w/e we always have 'to be doing something'. She's always fukin arranging things for Sun morning with ParkyJnr, so I look like a cunt cause I refusre to get out of bed at 7.00 (ON A SUNDAY!!!!). She arranges and re-arranges things on my desk, she never seems tired or just able to relax, she doesn't understand anything about the world on any meaningful level, she watches Twilight (that vampire thing) and raves about it. I saw her cleaning her macpro screen with special computer screenwipes the other day (that's just fuking anal!!). Germans are shit.

[Park Life 71]

I guess if any group of people have a shared appearance it means they have a shared genetic make up. You cant say that in Germany though, its social democracy gone mad tbh.

 

They are really repressed and stunted psychologically the control is so high here. It's one of the reasons all the Turks act like cunts cause they can get away with it here. They wouldn't last 5 min swaggering around like that in Eng.

[Guest Tuco Ramirez]

The Germans are still way behind on all this integration stuff compared to us.

They've all got that little bit of Hitler in them as far as I'm concerned. Too orderly for my liking.

 

 

Mrs P's tidyness drives me up the wall. Even at w/e we always have 'to be doing something'. She's always fukin arranging things for Sun morning with ParkyJnr, so I look like a cunt cause I refusre to get out of bed at 7.00 (ON A SUNDAY!!!!). She arranges and re-arranges things on my desk, she never seems tired or just able to relax, she doesn't understand anything about the world on any meaningful level, she watches Twilight (that vampire thing) and raves about it. I saw her cleaning her macpro screen with special computer screenwipes the other day (that's just fuking anal!!). Germans are shit.

Robots, but a lot of the women look good, and I presume shag good. Personality wise they'd be alright if they were more like us.

 

I don't think many Irish or English people would admit it but we're almost identical culture and personality wise generally speaking.

[Guest Tuco Ramirez]

I guess if any group of people have a shared appearance it means they have a shared genetic make up. You cant say that in Germany though, its social democracy gone mad tbh.

 

They are really repressed and stunted psychologically the control is so high here. It's one of the reasons all the Turks act like cunts cause they can get away with it here. They wouldn't last 5 min swaggering around like that in Eng.

I can't imagine a depressed German, I really can't. You need feelings to be depressed.

[Park Life 71]

The Germans are still way behind on all this integration stuff compared to us.

They've all got that little bit of Hitler in them as far as I'm concerned. Too orderly for my liking.

 

 

Mrs P's tidyness drives me up the wall. Even at w/e we always have 'to be doing something'. She's always fukin arranging things for Sun morning with ParkyJnr, so I look like a cunt cause I refusre to get out of bed at 7.00 (ON A SUNDAY!!!!). She arranges and re-arranges things on my desk, she never seems tired or just able to relax, she doesn't understand anything about the world on any meaningful level, she watches Twilight (that vampire thing) and raves about it. I saw her cleaning her macpro screen with special computer screenwipes the other day (that's just fuking anal!!). Germans are shit.

Robots, but a lot of the women look good, and I presume shag good. Personality wise they'd be alright if they were more like us.

 

I don't think many Irish or English people would admit it but we're almost identical culture and personality wise generally speaking.

 

The French ARE the best shag. MrsP operates it like a quota system the blonde Nazi bitch!

[ChezGiven 0]

The Germans are still way behind on all this integration stuff compared to us.

They've all got that little bit of Hitler in them as far as I'm concerned. Too orderly for my liking.

 

 

Mrs P's tidyness drives me up the wall. Even at w/e we always have 'to be doing something'. She's always fukin arranging things for Sun morning with ParkyJnr, so I look like a cunt cause I refusre to get out of bed at 7.00 (ON A SUNDAY!!!!). She arranges and re-arranges things on my desk, she never seems tired or just able to relax, she doesn't understand anything about the world on any meaningful level, she watches Twilight (that vampire thing) and raves about it. I saw her cleaning her macpro screen with special computer screenwipes the other day (that's just fuking anal!!). Germans are shit.

Robots, but a lot of the women look good, and I presume shag good. Personality wise they'd be alright if they were more like us.

 

I don't think many Irish or English people would admit it but we're almost identical culture and personality wise generally speaking.

 

The French ARE the best shag. MrsP operates it like a quota system the blonde Nazi bitch!

 

[ChezGiven 0]

I guess if any group of people have a shared appearance it means they have a shared genetic make up. You cant say that in Germany though, its social democracy gone mad tbh.

 

They are really repressed and stunted psychologically the control is so high here. It's one of the reasons all the Turks act like cunts cause they can get away with it here. They wouldn't last 5 min swaggering around like that in Eng.

 

Dont know like, the Turkish community up around Tottenham Hale / Stoke Newington are right moody twats. Great kebabs though, me and a fat jewish mate used to have special kebab nights up there.

[Park Life 71]

When you do business with then you have to do everything correctly or they call you 10 times a fukin day about the meeerest detail. They don't know how to blag it, they don't know how to make a descision without asking about 12 people or having 5 meetings, they are polite and attentive to the point you want to put a pencil in their eyes. They ask you personal questions withing miuntes of meeting you, no clue about small talk, everything seems like some king of data exchange. I've only met two Germans who I really get on with and that's because they are basically artists ie outcasts.

[Guest Tuco Ramirez]

When you do business with then you have to do everything correctly or they call you 10 times a fukin day about the meeerest detail. They don't know how to blag it, they don't know how to make a descision without asking about 12 people or having 5 meetings, they are polite and attentive to the point you want to put a pencil in their eyes. They ask you personal questions withing miuntes of meeting you, no clue about small talk, everything seems like some king of data exchange. I've only met two Germans who I really get on with and that's because they are basically artists ie outcasts.

What's the inlaws like?

[Park Life 71]

When you do business with then you have to do everything correctly or they call you 10 times a fukin day about the meeerest detail. They don't know how to blag it, they don't know how to make a descision without asking about 12 people or having 5 meetings, they are polite and attentive to the point you want to put a pencil in their eyes. They ask you personal questions withing miuntes of meeting you, no clue about small talk, everything seems like some king of data exchange. I've only met two Germans who I really get on with and that's because they are basically artists ie outcasts.

What's the inlaws like?

 

I really get on with the dad basically cause he's an old skool lefty with a really healthy love of football. Often get free tickets from him to go and watch HSV. I also like him cause he gets on Mrs P's case, every since she let him down by not becoming good enough at hockey (he was there on the sidelines barking orders). She played Bundesliga as a Dm for a couple of years and is pretty much a very high standard skier and swimmer ( I can't ski and fear water). He likes it that Germany imports gas from Russia, he smokes, he comes over and does my diy. He isn't really that German and I can't fifure out why, the only thing I can think of is that he was a social worker. The mother is like all German women - cold, calculating and deadly. Her brother got a bit lippy once and I offerred him out he's been quiet since (steals a lot of trainers and gives me some).

[Park Life 71]

It's basically a country that has no love. The Germans don't love (they are attentive and caring). But that isn't love, there is no love in their eyes, just a kind of electrical destiny, the rise and fall of various pushes against the tide to understand something (themselves). But there is no love, no capacity for it, not enough love RAM or space on the hard drive. The land that love forgot. They have fallen back on liberatin themselves with attention to data, the methodical, numbers, charts, calculators and a whole host of electronic plotting of the surface of their emebedded psyche. They were put here to build things perfectly to supply humanity with things that are marvelous and ingenious, but in amonst all that shuddering and whirring of minds, love is a stranger. It is germane that all thier fairytales are dark and set in the black forest, for you can see the darkness of their souls, the forcefield of their spirit. You can see the thing with the Jews was a meeting and frissionn of two versions of the dark side, like Sith Lords one with the Kaballah magic and the other with Hegellian/Nietzschean/Ubermensch mythos, the clash of two earth forces of times gone by. There is no love here, it's also why they like/encourage the Turks, another bunch of lost, argumentative, insecure souls with a fighting spirit.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Park Life

[Meenzer 15737]

Oh, they can love all right.

[Park Life 71]

Oh, they can love all right.

 

They are good at gay love alright, but it's cause it fits in with their parameters, it isn't complex and spritual, it is more high turnover and bestial. No offence. Not that I mind that or there is anything wrong with, in many ways it is more honest and manly.

[Guest alex]

When you do business with then you have to do everything correctly or they call you 10 times a fukin day about the meeerest detail. They don't know how to blag it, they don't know how to make a descision without asking about 12 people or having 5 meetings, they are polite and attentive to the point you want to put a pencil in their eyes. They ask you personal questions withing miuntes of meeting you, no clue about small talk, everything seems like some king of data exchange. I've only met two Germans who I really get on with and that's because they are basically artists ie outcasts.

What's the inlaws like?

 

I really get on with the dad basically cause he's an old skool lefty with a really healthy love of football. Often get free tickets from him to go and watch HSV. I also like him cause he gets on Mrs P's case, every since she let him down by not becoming good enough at hockey (he was there on the sidelines barking orders). She played Bundesliga as a Dm for a couple of years and is pretty much a very high standard skier and swimmer ( I can't ski and fear water). He likes it that Germany imports gas from Russia, he smokes, he comes over and does my diy. He isn't really that German and I can't fifure out why, the only thing I can think of is that he was a social worker. The mother is like all German women - cold, calculating and deadly. Her brother got a bit lippy once and I offerred him out he's been quiet since (steals a lot of trainers and gives me some).

I reckon he's a sleeper

[Meenzer 15737]

Oh, they can love all right.

 

They are good at gay love alright, but it's cause it fits in with their parameters, it isn't complex and spritual, it is more high turnover and bestial. No offence. Not that I mind that or there is anything wrong with, in many ways it is more honest and manly.

 

Well, there's turning over involved.

[ChezGiven 0]

I'm in Berlin next week Parkenstein. Have an agenda that is military in its precision and breakfast is at 6.30 each morning.

 

Fucks sake.

[Renton 22008]

Mrs R doesn't like Germans with the exception of Isegrim, she gets well pissed off when she's mistaken as German on holiday.

 

I'd like to disagree with Parky but I think he has a point. I reckon they are still suffering collective shame from WW2. How many Germans can bear to watch Schindler's List? I've only been to Germany once - Berlin - and wasn't massively impressed. In a word, sterile. The Germans have been sterilised.

[Park Life 71]

Mrs R doesn't like Germans with the exception of Isegrim, she gets well pissed off when she's mistaken as German on holiday.

 

I'd like to disagree with Parky but I think he has a point. I reckon they are still suffering collective shame from WW2. How many Germans can bear to watch Schindler's List? I've only been to Germany once - Berlin - and wasn't massively impressed. In a word, sterile. The Germans have been sterilised.

 

Your final thought there is right on the button fella. They have been neutered, their collective consciousness has been hived, they are almost 'off planet'.