Do you believe in ghosts?

[Kitman 2204]

Scientists can't explain half of what goes on in human experience and on planet Earth without starting on the rest of the universe.

 

I know the "half" is just an expression but my arbitrary guess would be less than 1% is unexplained to any great degree.

 

How literal minded of you

 

Yeah but your inference is that even though science is sort of good, it doesn't really measure up in the big picture - I think you're wrong on that.

 

It was just meant to be a joke, hence the wink smiley.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'measure up in the big picture'? I suppose what I'm inferring is that science is a form of modern religion which some people seem to believe in as providing all the answers. I think we should be more sceptical about things we can't explain, that's all.

[Ruler of Planet Houston 1]

Scientists can't explain half of what goes on in human experience and on planet Earth without starting on the rest of the universe.

 

Rubbish! Can you not work out your family problems without first understanding mine and all the other families in the world? Can you not understand a book without first watching a bull fight in Spain? That is a terrible argument! Although I can see a slight bit of sense in that, as in not focusing on humans without taking in the surrounding environment, but to go outside of this planet would be totally irrelevant. Enough is known about the universe to have any use in human experience. We don't experience the rest of the universe so it won't affect us.

 

Although I do think science is bollocks! Common sense is the way forward!!!!!!!

[Ruler of Planet Houston 1]

Scientists haven't come up with an explanation for their existence because there is no existence to explain.

 

Depends on your starting point I suppose. If you flatly rule out the possibility that anything could survive death in any form whatsoever, then of course it's a ridiculous idea.

 

I don't believe in ghosts or an after life in the sense that most do. I do believe that life as we know it (Jim) is not all holed up in a brain. I believe (a little theory of mine) that the brain may power and control our bodies, but it doesn't mean that putting a bullet into it will kill us. It may make our body become unresponsive, but who's to say our thoughts actually go with it? Impossible to prove without killing yourself, but then how would you tell anyone?

 

Look at the chicken!

[NJS 4355]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'measure up in the big picture'? I suppose what I'm inferring is that science is a form of modern religion which some people seem to believe in as providing all the answers. I think we should be more sceptical about things we can't explain, that's all.

 

I do agree there are elements of a sort of faith in modern science and I also agree we should be sceptical - I just think you're exaggerating the "well science can't explain everything" position which usually comes from religionists which is probably what condused Fish.

 

Of course my "faith" means I'm more likely to agree with the idea that brain irregularities/mass hysteria explains the supernatural than life after death but that position is backed by logic/evidence - maybe that's a circular argument but I want to live in a world where things "make sense" through rationality rather than one in which we throw our hands in the air and say "Who cares how it works".

[Ruler of Planet Houston 1]

One of the biggest flaws in humans is their obsession and need to explain and make sense of things.

[Renton 21052]

What do you think 'Science' actually is out of interest? Give a definition if you can (and don't Google).

 

I was taught at school that science is the explanation of physical events through systematic study and experiment.

 

That's a reasonable definition which makes your tirade all the more odd imo.

 

Basically, you're agreeing that all science is is a process, or perhaps philosophy, of trying to understand the Universe in a systematic manner through observation and intellect. So when you say Science is arrogant, I assume you mean scientists, individually and/or collectively, are arrogant, rather than the field itself. Since science, unlike mysticism and religion, is constantly under revision, I reject this outright personally. Of course individuals sientists may be arrogant, but in general the don't come close to your average preacher in this regard.

 

Another two questions then:

 

What other way of thinking has provided us with so much through (the application of Science - technology)?

 

How else do you propose we should understand the world?

[NJS 4355]

One of the biggest flaws in humans is their obsession and need to explain and make sense of things.

 

I'd say it was our greatest strength

[Renton 21052]

Scientists can't explain half of what goes on in human experience and on planet Earth without starting on the rest of the universe.

 

I know the "half" is just an expression but my arbitrary guess would be less than 1% is unexplained to any great degree.

 

How literal minded of you

 

Yeah but your inference is that even though science is sort of good, it doesn't really measure up in the big picture - I think you're wrong on that.

 

It was just meant to be a joke, hence the wink smiley.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'measure up in the big picture'? I suppose what I'm inferring is that science is a form of modern religion which some people seem to believe in as providing all the answers. I think we should be more sceptical about things we can't explain, that's all.

 

It's ironic that you're so sceptical of Science when scepticism is at the very heart of what Science is. You're a closet scientist.

[Ruler of Planet Houston 1]

One of the biggest flaws in humans is their obsession and need to explain and make sense of things.

 

I'd say it was our greatest strength

 

I wrote an article on the existence of time (for fun of course) and my belief is that time only exists because we, as humans, need it to to explain changes in sound, vision senses etc... Letting go of the need to explain things such as time can give you a whole new outlook on life!

[Renton 21052]

Has anybody thought about what the practical considerations are of becoming a ghost btw? You die, and wander the world, only being able to communicate with pricks like Derek Acorrah. No food, drink, drugs, or sex either I'd imagine, plus you'd be able to watch everyone having a shit or a wank. Nice.

[Ruler of Planet Houston 1]

Has anybody thought about what the practical considerations are of becoming a ghost btw? You die, and wander the world, only being able to communicate with pricks like Derek Acorrah. No food, drink, drugs, or sex either I'd imagine, plus you'd be able to watch everyone having a shit or a wank. Nice.

 

I think a lot of people would like to believe that being a ghost is just like in the film of the same name. Staying young, wandering around anywhere, walking through walls, following Demi Moore all over her house, punching people they hate etc... If only it were true!!!

[Ayatollah Hermione 13762]

Has anybody thought about what the practical considerations are of becoming a ghost btw? You die, and wander the world, only being able to communicate with pricks like Derek Acorrah. No food, drink, drugs, or sex either I'd imagine, plus you'd be able to watch everyone having a shit or a wank. Nice.

 

Well, you potter around in the sky somewhere then come back whenever you want to scare the shite out of people. Sounds pretty fun, especially if you get to meet Hendrix.

[The Fish 10674]

I just don't understand how Science can be dismissed. How Kitman can say science can't explain everything, when science isn't done looking for answers is just... I dunno it's just a stagnant view of science and the best thing about science is that it's ever-evolving.

[Radgina 1]

Radgina displaying signs of mental illness itt.

 

Pretty sure I've seen her 'talking to ghosts' by Grey's Monument with a small group of her fellow 'psychics'

 

 

with a brown bag in hand ?? That was my evil twin.......

[Walliver 0]

One of the biggest flaws in humans is their obsession and need to explain and make sense of things.

 

I'd say it was our greatest strength

 

I wrote an article on the existence of time (for fun of course) and my belief is that time only exists because we, as humans, need it to to explain changes in sound, vision senses etc... Letting go of the need to explain things such as time can give you a whole new outlook on life!

 

I'm thinking out loud a bit here, but why is it that time is the same all over the world?

 

I know we have time zones and daylight savings, but how is it that we managed to agree on a global scale that a second should be a certain length, that we should have 60 of those in a minute, 60 of those in an hour and 24 of those in a day but we couldn't agree on things like a universal language or currency?

 

I reckon the basic premise comes from measuring a day (how much sun time we have) to help with harvests and the like so we could all have the same basic outline for time - although wouldn't the length of day change depending on a country's proximity to the equator? - but that we all filled in that outline with the same details is what baffles me.

[Kitman 2204]

What do you think 'Science' actually is out of interest? Give a definition if you can (and don't Google).

 

I was taught at school that science is the explanation of physical events through systematic study and experiment.

 

That's a reasonable definition which makes your tirade all the more odd imo.

 

Basically, you're agreeing that all science is is a process, or perhaps philosophy, of trying to understand the Universe in a systematic manner through observation and intellect. So when you say Science is arrogant, I assume you mean scientists, individually and/or collectively, are arrogant, rather than the field itself. Since science, unlike mysticism and religion, is constantly under revision, I reject this outright personally. Of course individuals sientists may be arrogant, but in general the don't come close to your average preacher in this regard.

 

Another two questions then:

 

What other way of thinking has provided us with so much through (the application of Science - technology)?

 

How else do you propose we should understand the world?

 

It's not a tirade

 

I don't think your questions are relevant to what I was saying really. I'd much rather live in the modern world than the dark ages. Science isn't a philosophy imo but I think maybe it's become like one in the absence of anything else to believe in. I do think it breeds intellectual arrogance.

 

However I'm not evangelising an alternative to science, there isn't one (currently). I'm just having a moan about the intellectual snobbery that goes with it, the accepted wisdom that it provides the answer to everything. I don't believe it is the only way to interpret the world. I think there's a place for intuition, imagination, irrationality, a bit of mystery and so on. Ghosts might exist, you never know. And lots of other interesting things that make life amusing. I prefer not to live like Spock, and rule them out simply because they're illogical.

[Guest alex]

I often take the dog for a walk in the grave yard late of a night just for shits and giggles. It is a bit spooky even if you don't really believe in ghosts. Certainly less scary than taking him past the Fusilier / Longbenton estate after dark though

[Kitman 2204]

It's ironic that you're so sceptical of Science when scepticism is at the very heart of what Science is. You're a closet scientist.

 

Possibly

[Kitman 2204]

I often take the dog for a walk in the grave yard late of a night just for shits and giggles. It is a bit spooky even if you don't really believe in ghosts. Certainly less scary than taking him past the Fusilier / Longbenton estate after dark though

 

I like old graveyards. Modern ones lack atmosphere.

 

When I was about 10 years old, I stayed in an old country house in Yorkshire. I was reading Dracula at the time and the moon was out every night. I didn't sleep a wink for 2 nights

[Guest alex]

I often take the dog for a walk in the grave yard late of a night just for shits and giggles. It is a bit spooky even if you don't really believe in ghosts. Certainly less scary than taking him past the Fusilier / Longbenton estate after dark though

 

I like old graveyards. Modern ones lack atmosphere.

 

When I was about 10 years old, I stayed in an old country house in Yorkshire. I was reading Dracula at the time and the moon was out every night. I didn't sleep a wink for 2 nights

It's got a modern council cemetary as part of it but the old graveyard bit next to the church is great. It's quite overgrown and has a few family vault things plus some headstones going back to the mid-18th century which are quite cool. If you like that sort of thing. I sound like a goth ffs

[Kitman 2204]

I often take the dog for a walk in the grave yard late of a night just for shits and giggles. It is a bit spooky even if you don't really believe in ghosts. Certainly less scary than taking him past the Fusilier / Longbenton estate after dark though

 

I like old graveyards. Modern ones lack atmosphere.

 

When I was about 10 years old, I stayed in an old country house in Yorkshire. I was reading Dracula at the time and the moon was out every night. I didn't sleep a wink for 2 nights

It's got a modern council cemetary as part of it but the old graveyard bit next to the church is great. It's quite overgrown and has a few family vault things plus some headstones going back to the mid-18th century which are quite cool. If you like that sort of thing. I sound like a goth ffs

 

In the old days some people's grave plots were as good as houses. Some real works of art crumbling to bits in some of them. Have you been to Highgate Cemetery in London? I've always planned to go to Pere LaChaise in Paris and check out Jim Morrison's grave but I've never got round to it.

[Renton 21052]

What do you think 'Science' actually is out of interest? Give a definition if you can (and don't Google).

 

I was taught at school that science is the explanation of physical events through systematic study and experiment.

 

That's a reasonable definition which makes your tirade all the more odd imo.

 

Basically, you're agreeing that all science is is a process, or perhaps philosophy, of trying to understand the Universe in a systematic manner through observation and intellect. So when you say Science is arrogant, I assume you mean scientists, individually and/or collectively, are arrogant, rather than the field itself. Since science, unlike mysticism and religion, is constantly under revision, I reject this outright personally. Of course individuals sientists may be arrogant, but in general the don't come close to your average preacher in this regard.

 

Another two questions then:

 

What other way of thinking has provided us with so much through (the application of Science - technology)?

 

How else do you propose we should understand the world?

 

It's not a tirade

 

I don't think your questions are relevant to what I was saying really. I'd much rather live in the modern world than the dark ages. Science isn't a philosophy imo but I think maybe it's become like one in the absence of anything else to believe in. I do think it breeds intellectual arrogance.

 

However I'm not evangelising an alternative to science, there isn't one (currently). I'm just having a moan about the intellectual snobbery that goes with it, the accepted wisdom that it provides the answer to everything. I don't believe it is the only way to interpret the world. I think there's a place for intuition, imagination, irrationality, a bit of mystery and so on. Ghosts might exist, you never know. And lots of other interesting things that make life amusing. I prefer not to live like Spock, and rule them out simply because they're illogical.

 

I think you're still being a bit unfair, I've never known a scientist who believes that science answers all questions, and rarely have I met one that thinks it ever will. Science in my experience is not snobbish. And despite contributing most of what makes modern life so bearable, in general scientists are massively underpaid - one reason I have left the field. Oh aye, scientists are constantly mocked by the media ('boffins') and portrayed as nerdish stereotypes as well.

 

My personal thoughts are that the limitations of the human brain are what will stop us getting to the ultimate 'truth'. As for intuition, imagination, irrationality, mystery, that's all fair enough but I honestly don't think they contribute to our understanding of the world. Intuition, particularly, is often wrong, especially when considering matters such as probability (there are some really interesting counterintuitive puzzles out there).

 

As for ghosts, if they are part of the physical world, then they should be able to be investigated using physical (scientific) techniques. If they are beyond science ('supernatural') then you have free reign to believe whatever you want, aren't you? Personally I'm of the opinion that we live in a real, physical, Universe; that the mind is a product of the brain; and that there is no reason at all to believe the mind can survive the death of the brain. Moreover, I wouldn't want it to, in the context of ghosts I mean, it sounds like a prospect much worse than death.

[Guest alex]

I often take the dog for a walk in the grave yard late of a night just for shits and giggles. It is a bit spooky even if you don't really believe in ghosts. Certainly less scary than taking him past the Fusilier / Longbenton estate after dark though

 

I like old graveyards. Modern ones lack atmosphere.

 

When I was about 10 years old, I stayed in an old country house in Yorkshire. I was reading Dracula at the time and the moon was out every night. I didn't sleep a wink for 2 nights

It's got a modern council cemetary as part of it but the old graveyard bit next to the church is great. It's quite overgrown and has a few family vault things plus some headstones going back to the mid-18th century which are quite cool. If you like that sort of thing. I sound like a goth ffs

 

In the old days some people's grave plots were as good as houses. Some real works of art crumbling to bits in some of them. Have you been to Highgate Cemetery in London? I've always planned to go to Pere LaChaise in Paris and check out Jim Morrison's grave but I've never got round to it.

I haven't, no. Jesmond Cemetery is actually quite good. Quite a few famous Newcastle people like John Dobson etc. in there: http://www.jesmondoldcemetery.co.uk/index.html

[Renton 21052]

What about that one (in Manchester?) in 'Cemetary gates' by the Smiths. Is that any good?

[Guest alex]

What about that one (in Manchester?) in 'Cemetary gates' by the Smiths. Is that any good?

I was just thinking about that actually