Ronaldinho at peak vs Messi now

[Tooj 17]

The Ronaldinho assist to Giuly against Milan at the San Siro

 

 

Exactly what I was on about.

[SloopJohn 0]

Ronaldinho for two seasons was unbelievable - Messi is certainly a lot more direct and pragmatic a player but for pure entertainment Ronnie was the best of the last decade

[Guest alex]

The amount of times he used to pick the ball up wide left and the full-back / other defenders knew he was going to cut inside but could do absolutely nothing about it was unbelievable.

[Kid Dynamite 7025]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LCGegHIeEUM

[Dr Gloom 21912]

different sort of players aren't they? messi more direct and probably quicker but ronaldinho was more skilful in my opinion. he was a true magician with the ball at his feet in terms of tricks and the way he could pass the ball. that said i think messi will still go down in history higher up in the list of all time greats. he's likely to have a longer and more successful career in terms of honours. the number of times he's won the ballon d'or is already insane.

 

one thing ronaldinho defenders can say though is he won the world cup. messi has been a bit like rooney in world cups to date, not as impressive as he is in domestic football.

[Tooj 17]

different sort of players aren't they? messi more direct and probably quicker but ronaldinho was more skilful in my opinion. he was a true magician with the ball at his feet in terms of tricks and the way he could pass the ball. that said i think messi will still go down in history higher up in the list of all time greats. he's likely to have a longer and more successful career in terms of honours. the number of times he's won the ballon d'or is already insane.

 

one thing ronaldinho defenders can say though is he won the world cup. messi has been a bit like rooney in world cups to date, not as impressive as he is in domestic football.

 

Eh? Messi was a youngster in 2006 and if Pekerman had not substituted Riquelme they probably would have beaten Germany in the quarter final as they were the best team in the tournament up until that match.

 

In the last World Cup yes Messi wasn't particularly outstanding and he didn't score but he was actually really impressive in open play for Argentina. Didn't help that they had Maradona as manager either mind. Apart from Euro 2004 Rooney has been a waste of a shirt during tournaments for England. He's put in pathetic performances after pathetic performances. He could barely trap a ball in the last World Cup ffs.

 

Messi is now putting in performances for Argentina that are equivalent to his Barcelona form too. It seems like they've now realised he needs to be the focal point of the team instead of trying to fit their vast array of attacking talent into every position.

 

Imagine if he is integral to Argentina winning the World Cup in Brazil? People will then definitely be talking about Pele, Maradona and Messi.

[Zathras 244]

I agree with the sentiment that (fat) Ronaldo was the best when in his prime, but unfortunately it was cut short by the injuries and whatever the hell happened before the final of France98.

Between Ronaldinho and Messi, though, I think you have to give it to Messi for end-product but Ronaldinho was more fun to watch.

[Tooj 17]

Ronaldinho's probably the most skillful player that I've ever saw like.

 

Such a shame he lost his motivation and that his peak were only for a couple of years.

 

[Dr Gloom 21912]

Eh? Messi was a youngster in 2006 and if Pekerman had not substituted Riquelme they probably would have beaten Germany in the quarter final as they were the best team in the tournament up until that match.

 

In the last World Cup yes Messi wasn't particularly outstanding and he didn't score but he was actually really impressive in open play for Argentina. Didn't help that they had Maradona as manager either mind. Apart from Euro 2004 Rooney has been a waste of a shirt during tournaments for England. He's put in pathetic performances after pathetic performances. He could barely trap a ball in the last World Cup ffs.

 

Messi is now putting in performances for Argentina that are equivalent to his Barcelona form too. It seems like they've now realised he needs to be the focal point of the team instead of trying to fit their vast array of attacking talent into every position.

 

Imagine if he is integral to Argentina winning the World Cup in Brazil? People will then definitely be talking about Pele, Maradona and Messi.

 

to go down as one of the greatest ever players, and here i'm talking of the peles and maradonas, he'll have to win a world cup.

 

he was coming back from injury in 2006, and he was young. but in both world cups he's played in, argntina have been pretty ordinary - knocked out by the quarter final stages in both tournaments if i remember correctly. maradona played in two argie sides that weren't amazing, yet he managed to win the world cup in mexico practically on his own; then in 1990 he dragged them to the final, when the side he was playing in was even less spectacular.

 

and let's not forget the wondergoal and celebration in USA 94 when he was coked off his tits.

 

when messi does all that, i'll talk about him in the same breath as maradona.

Edited February 13, 2013 by Dr Gloom

[Tooj 17]

[Tooj 17]

to go down as one of the greatest ever players, and here i'm talking of the peles and maradonas, he'll have to win a world cup.

 

he was coming back from injury in 2006, and he was young. but in both world cups he's played in, argntina have been pretty ordinary - knocked out by the quarter final stages in both tournaments if i remember correctly. maradona played in two argie sides that weren't amazing, yet he managed to win the world cup in mexico practically on his own; then in 1990 he dragged them to the final, when the side he was playing in was even less spectacular.

 

and let's not forget the wondergoal and celebration in USA 94 when he was coked off his tits.

 

when messi does all that, i'll talk about him in the same breath as maradona.

 

That's a total straw man argument though. Football has changed drastically since Maradona's day and Messi now comes against opposition that are far more organised defensively and fitter than those playing in Maradona's time.

 

Also Pele never carried Brazil to win a World Cup like say Garrincha did. Yet everybody knows him as one of the greatest to have ever played the game because he was a level above those playing with him in those successful Brazilian teams.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

That's a total straw man argument though. Football has changed drastically since Maradona's day and Messi now comes against opposition that are far more organised defensively and fitter than those playing in Maradona's time.

 

Also Pele never carried Brazil to win a World Cup like say Garrincha did. Yet everybody knows him as one of the greatest to have ever played the game because he was a level above those playing with him in those successful Brazilian teams.

 

no it isn't. to go down as one of the all time greats, and here i'm talking of the top two, messi has to win a world cup, regardless of how good his team mates are.

 

pele and maradona are widely regarded as the best ever. they both won the world cup.

 

the next two on that list are often the likes of platini and cruyff - amazing players, but what's missing from their cvs?

Edited February 13, 2013 by Dr Gloom

[Dr Gloom 21912]

you could argue zidane is ahead of messi right now because of what he achieved on the world stage

[Dr Gloom 21912]

i bet messi couldn't score a goal as good as maradona's effort in 94 if he'd just snorted a massive road marker of gack

[Brock Manson 0]

It's utter bollocks to say a player can only be labelled a true great if they win a world cup.

 

If Messi carries on his phenomenal scoring record with Barca until he retires yet doesn't win the world cup, he'll still be one of the best players the game has ever seen. Same with Ronaldo an arl.

[Tooj 17]

Zidane is certainly not ahead of Messi and to state so is ridiculous.

 

Zidane's not even the best French player in his position of all time. He's a player that's too highly lauded because of his amazing and unique style. He was far too inconsistent over the course of his career and only turned up when he fancied it. He also couldn't do a lot of things that Messi can.

 

There's a better player playing now than Zidane who plays in his exact same position.

 

[Dr Gloom 21912]

Zidane is certainly not ahead of Messi and to state so is ridiculous.

 

Zidane's not even the best French player in his position of all time. He's a player that's too highly lauded because of his amazing and unique style. He was far too inconsistent over the course of his career and only turned up when he fancied it. He also couldn't do a lot of things that Messi can.

 

There's a better player playing now than Zidane who plays in his exact same position.

 

 

this is all subjective mate. look at their two cvs. zidane's stacks up pretty well.

[Tooj 17]

It's just about CVs though. If you based opinion on CVs then look at Shearer's compared to somebody like David May's.

 

I love everything about Iniesta on the pitch though, even though Messi is the best in the world Iniesta is without doubt my favourite player to watch. Sheer class.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

It's utter bollocks to say a player can only be labelled a true great if they win a world cup.

 

If Messi carries on his phenomenal scoring record with Barca until he retires yet doesn't win the world cup, he'll still be one of the best players the game has ever seen. Same with Ronaldo an arl.

 

not what i said though is it? there's a list of great players, messi is obviously on it, but the two that are widely regarded as the best in the current standings have both won world cups and i doubt that will change unless messi does the same.

[aimaad22 4156]

Have to agree about Iniesta, its not just the quality but the fact he's been able to maintain that quality throughout his career. Some of his play can be mind boggling at times.

 

Not the biggest fan of you have to win a world cup to be great argument either.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

It's just about CVs though. If you based opinion on CVs then look at Shearer's compared to somebody like David May's.

 

I love everything about Iniesta on the pitch though, even though Messi is the best in the world Iniesta is without doubt my favourite player to watch. Sheer class.

 

david may. howay man, you're just being argumentative for the sake of it now. there's obviously no comparison to be made there. i'm comparing world greats here.

 

i watched zidane and messi and maradona, all play in world cups. for me, maradona was in a different league to the other two. the 86 world cups is one of my earliest memories of football. he was unbelievably good. can't say the same about messi so far, despite his amazing domestic record.

 

that's not saying messi won't go on to be remembered as the better player in the future, but in my opinion he has more to do in his career before he is.

[Tooj 17]

I completely agree he has to do more in his career to be ranked up there.

 

You just need to look at their comparative World Cup careers though. Maradona never go picked in '78. Then he flopped massively in '82 culminating in getting sent off against Brazil. So Messi has achieved more than Maradona has at similar paths throughout their career.

 

Yet despite what Messi achieves at club level all people will say is that he played for the world's best team compared to what Maradona done at Napoli. It's ridiculous that these comparisons even get made man.

 

Messi is a genius so people should just be grateful that we get to watch a player that is so good, that also enjoys playing football first and foremost and puts in the maximum effort on the field to show this. He doesn't dive, he doesn't cheat (handball excluded ) and he works damn hard on the pitch and doesn't have an ego like some do despite being a lot less gifted than he is.

[David Kelly 1244]

I completely agree he has to do more in his career to be ranked up there.

 

You just need to look at their comparative World Cup careers though. Maradona never go picked in '78. Then he flopped massively in '82 culminating in getting sent off against Brazil. So Messi has achieved more than Maradona has at similar paths throughout their career.

 

Yet despite what Messi achieves at club level all people will say is that he played for the world's best team compared to what Maradona done at Napoli. It's ridiculous that these comparisons even get made man.

 

Messi is a genius so people should just be grateful that we get to watch a player that is so good, that also enjoys playing football first and foremost and puts in the maximum effort on the field to show this. He doesn't dive, he doesn't cheat (handball excluded ) and he works damn hard on the pitch and doesn't have an ego like some do despite being a lot less gifted than he is.

I don't think it's ridiculous that those comparisons get made. You have to accept that Maradona dragged two very average teams to glory and Messi's never done that (and most likely never will). That isn't knocking Messi but it is acknowledging what Maradona did do.

I agree with Gloomy that winning a world cup would be the thing that will put Messi up there with Maradona and Pele. The likes of Cruyff, Platini, Puskas, Eusebio, Di Stefano etc are all classed as greats but they miss the one thing puts them just above.

 

I agree with what you're saying about Iniesta too. Funnily enough we were comparing him and Zidane in the pub last night. I made the point that until recently he was probably the most underrated player ever. Not that he's not been highly rated, just not enough for how good he is.

[Ayatollah Hermione 13861]

Messi tournament next year tbqphwafs.

[aimaad22 4156]

I completely agree he has to do more in his career to be ranked up there.

 

You just need to look at their comparative World Cup careers though. Maradona never go picked in '78. Then he flopped massively in '82 culminating in getting sent off against Brazil. So Messi has achieved more than Maradona has at similar paths throughout their career.

 

Yet despite what Messi achieves at club level all people will say is that he played for the world's best team compared to what Maradona done at Napoli. It's ridiculous that these comparisons even get made man.

 

Messi is a genius so people should just be grateful that we get to watch a player that is so good, that also enjoys playing football first and foremost and puts in the maximum effort on the field to show this. He doesn't dive, he doesn't cheat (handball excluded ) and he works damn hard on the pitch and doesn't have an ego like some do despite being a lot less gifted than he is.

 

Thats what I love about the guy. Even if he isnt playing as well as he usually does, he drops back in midfield and makes a complete nuisance of himself looking to chase down people and tryibng to get the ball. Watching Ronaldo on Wednesday, its just not the same. There is not the same level of involvement in the game, the will to get involved. Thats something that puts Iniesta and Messi above everyone else imo.