Do You Believe In God?

[JawD 99]

All forms of Religions IMO were used to control people years ago, i.e. "Do as we say and you'll go to Heaven". They are total bollocks.

Any way on the subject of 'God', I would like to think there is something afterwards, and sometimes I sort of think that life must have had some sort of intelligent design

(I mean, the first cell ever created? Did all of the chemicals just bump into each other in a massive co-incidence?). Though deep down I reckon when you're dead thats it - Nowt.

 

Aye, its a bit of a mindfuck thinking of what was there before the universe? What is that big black space made from? It must have started as something. There must be an end somewhere?

 

 

 

 

I'm sure I read somewhere that they reckon 'space' is made up of dark matter, and if you travel 14 billion light years you reach the 'edge of the universe' which is a wall of cosmic background radiation, I'd love to know whats behind ut. Would love to fully understand atronomy / physics and stuff! There are some great documentaries on this sort of stuff. I'll dig them out later and post them

 

I watched an interesting (no really!) program about Dark Matter. They call it that because basically they can't work out what keeps space, in place. stars, planets yadda yadda, dont fit their usual rules so they made up Dark Matter so they equasion worked. Now of course they are throwing dark force into the pot as well. Science is a funny thing as well, It's only Science Fact until they realise it is wrong and change the face to their new theory.

[The Fish 10856]

I don't their should be "faith schools" as it will lead to things like creationism being taught as a science.

 

Is that actually happening though?

Definitely being taught all over the US as if it were a science, and I'm sure it'll be the same deal in some Christian Faith schools here as well. I wouldn't know about Muslim Faith schools, I'm not sure if they subsrcibe to creationism, or the literal translation of the Qur'an or something else?

[ewerk 30598]

I don't their should be "faith schools" as it will lead to things like creationism being taught as a science.

 

Is that actually happening though?

 

Yes. In the Reg Vardy academy in Gateshead for one, not three miles from my desk.

 

Edit: damn. Also is widespread in the US of course.

 

I believe that parents should be able to send their kids to faith schools if they want to but I do draw the line at teaching creationism as a science. I went to a Catholic school and the issue never came up in Science class, plus I think that most of us were already aware of the big bang theory.

 

To me, religion and faith are two separate issues, anyone who follows the words of others blindly is a fool, whether it be in religion or any other field. I see religion as a way to channel faith, not to define your faith.

[Happy Face 29]

I'd ban faith schools, and I'd ban all teaching of religion at school except in a purely sociological/geographical/historical context. You won't agree with this but I'd ban full face coverings and other forms of 'extreme' religious garb in public (meaning all public buildings, transport, and shops).

 

I guess that is quite militant come to think of it.

 

 

Ban the shit out of those intolerant bastards

[ewerk 30598]

I don't their should be "faith schools" as it will lead to things like creationism being taught as a science.

 

Is that actually happening though?

Definitely being taught all over the US as if it were a science, and I'm sure it'll be the same deal in some Christian Faith schools here as well. I wouldn't know about Muslim Faith schools, I'm not sure if they subsrcibe to creationism, or the literal translation of the Qur'an or something else?

 

Aye but they're American though, to be quite honest I'm not that interested in what they're teaching in their schools. It is worrying that it's happening over here, though I'm not sure how widespread it is.

[Happy Face 29]

Of course, as a Muslim I believe in one God who is eternal and who created the universe

 

You don't REALLY though do you?

 

He's got the brainpower and the muscle power to create this universe in all it's magnificent wonder and infitecimal detail from the tiniest sub atomic particles to the vastness of the milky way and that...but since pulling off that genius move he's done nowt else? Such a brilliant individual would surely be getting bored after billions years watching it expand and setting fire to the odd bush.

 

Has he got an ipad to pass the time?

[The Fish 10856]

I don't their should be "faith schools" as it will lead to things like creationism being taught as a science.

 

Is that actually happening though?

Definitely being taught all over the US as if it were a science, and I'm sure it'll be the same deal in some Christian Faith schools here as well. I wouldn't know about Muslim Faith schools, I'm not sure if they subsrcibe to creationism, or the literal translation of the Qur'an or something else?

 

Aye but they're American though, to be quite honest I'm not that interested in what they're teaching in their schools. It is worrying that it's happening over here, though I'm not sure how widespread it is.

I am, because in 10 years time a guy who was taught this nonsense could be tempted to push a button to kill people who believe in worshipping basically the same deity in a different way to pieces. And I could get caught in the cross fire.

[ewerk 30598]

Bush already got his chance and we survived it.

[Happy Face 29]

Bush already got his chance and we survived it.

 

Fuck the million odd that did get killed then eh?

[acrossthepond 877]

Creationism isn't being taught 'all over the US'. It has caught on in some areas, but in most of the country, it is still not included in the curriculum. There is an increasing propensity to give a nod to the 'evolution is just a theory' claptrap. So while few schools will actually talk about creationism, many attempt to intimate that it's a possibility.

 

I have no idea what is taught in "Muslim Faith schools". I doubt it is creationism. Despite the myriad faults of conservative Islam, one of its plusses is that it does not reject what Westerners consider 'science.' Remember, much of the scientific tradition as we know it originated in the Muslim world.

 

@Happy Face: You already know what I'm going to say. You're a bright fellow and I'm sure you are aware of the standard counter-argument to what you are asking.

[ewerk 30598]

Bush already got his chance and we survived it.

 

Fuck the million odd that did get killed then eh?

 

My comment was from a nuclear perspective and 'Bush's' wars had little to do with religion imo, whatever he may think himself.

[NJS 4378]

I have no idea what is taught in "Muslim Faith schools". I doubt it is creationism. Despite the myriad faults of conservative Islam, one of its plusses is that it does not reject what Westerners consider 'science.' Remember, much of the scientific tradition as we know it originated in the Muslim world.

 

I've read a few articles from British science teachers saying that they face increasing hostility from Muslim kids when evolution is raised - one of the disadvantages of the more fundamental Islam we seem to be engendering in the UK (probably as a result of immigration from Pakistan) is that on this issue it seems less enlightened than more mainstream versions.

 

I also think there's a "bloody-mindedness" at work where some Muslims are deliberately embracing tenets which they know will annoy western liberals the most.

 

Of course the fact that a lot of Muslim schools are being funded by Saudi Wahabbists doesn't help as they tend to be as much towards the fuck-witted end of the scale as US evangelical creationists.

[Ketsbaia 0]

I can't remember a point in my life where I ever believed in God. Even as a kid I never bought into it. Same goes for a lot of my mates, we were all aware it was complete bollocks and the whole saying prayers in school and doing the odd special assembly at the church was a bit of a charade to keep the teachers happy. It probably helped that the main influences in my life were either atheist or unsure and completely unwilling to push any sort of belief system on me.

 

That said I'm relatively relaxed when it comes to other people's beliefs as long as they keep it to themselves. If someone mentions the G word to me in that ever so patronising fashion believers are capable of it's like a red rag to the bull. I've turned into Dawkins because my lass (a lapsed Catholic if I ever saw one) has said something completely bloody ridiculous at the wrong time

 

The only person I know who is a practicing Christian is my cousin, who had a mental breakdown and then 'found God' a year or two ago. The most annoying thing is that she's no different to what she was before, she's still manic depressive as hell and wired to fuck but because she goes to church every other day people consider her better. I'd consider her worse.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

I have to admit being an atheist..although going to Catholic School and having a devout Catholic mother gives me that twinge of guilt feeling. I have no problem with religions, until people start using them as excuses to mistreat people/act like twats/blow people up. However, as I've got older I've learnt not to tar all church goers and pepole who believe in religion with the same brush. My wifes sister and her husband are very devout CoE but to be fair to them they never push it on anyone. I have to say though, a lot of the US stuff is scary shit.

[acrossthepond 877]

I have no idea what is taught in "Muslim Faith schools". I doubt it is creationism. Despite the myriad faults of conservative Islam, one of its plusses is that it does not reject what Westerners consider 'science.' Remember, much of the scientific tradition as we know it originated in the Muslim world.

 

I've read a few articles from British science teachers saying that they face increasing hostility from Muslim kids when evolution is raised - one of the disadvantages of the more fundamental Islam we seem to be engendering in the UK (probably as a result of immigration from Pakistan) is that on this issue it seems less enlightened than more mainstream versions.

 

I also think there's a "bloody-mindedness" at work where some Muslims are deliberately embracing tenets which they know will annoy western liberals the most.

 

Of course the fact that a lot of Muslim schools are being funded by Saudi Wahabbists doesn't help as they tend to be as much towards the fuck-witted end of the scale as US evangelical creationists.

 

I have often said you can trace many of the negatives about Islamic society today back to Saudi Arabia and specifically to the Wahabis, who are absolute psychos and who are a danger to Muslims and non-Muslims worldwide. They've been a strong influence in Pakistan since the 70s and the rule of Zia-ul-Haq and their particular brand of Islamism is gaining popularity even in relatively secular states such as Egypt.

 

I really struggle to support war or violence of any kind, but if there ever was a regime that needed changing it would be the House of Saud.

[Happy Face 29]

@Happy Face: You already know what I'm going to say. You're a bright fellow and I'm sure you are aware of the standard counter-argument to what you are asking.

 

Yeah, that's why I can't imagine anyone actually believes in god if they're honest, the standard counter-argument is weak as piss.

 

[Guest alex]

I'm sure I've heard it before but what is the standard counter-argument? I'm guessing that's not it btw

[acrossthepond 877]

I'm sure I've heard it before but what is the standard counter-argument? I'm guessing that's not it btw

 

It's that God watches the universe and his creations and at times intervenes, and that we can't know his will, on account of him being ineffable, etc.

 

Impossible to argue that as it's just about belief.

[Guest alex]

I have heard that before. Agree with HF like. What a cop-out

[acrossthepond 877]

I have heard that before. Agree with HF like. What a cop-out

 

"What senses do we lack that we cannot perceive another world all around us?"

[Guest alex]

I have heard that before. Agree with HF like. What a cop-out

 

"What senses do we lack that we cannot perceive another world all around us?"

Is there a standard answer to that as well?

[sammynb 3355]

I kind of hope that Terry Pratchet has it correct.

If you believe there is nothing, then nada.

If you believe in eternal damnation, well don't forget the BBQ sauce, 71 virgins then pack a few condoms, etc, etc.

 

What was that movie that asks, "what if the Harri Krishna's are right???"

[acrossthepond 877]

I have heard that before. Agree with HF like. What a cop-out

 

"What senses do we lack that we cannot perceive another world all around us?"

Is there a standard answer to that as well?

Questions with no answer, I realise that. I just don't agree with the implication from HF that no rational and intelligent person can believe in God. Many of the world's most foremost scientists have been believers, for example, and their religious beliefs didn't impact their discoveries.

[Renton 21607]

I have heard that before. Agree with HF like. What a cop-out

 

"What senses do we lack that we cannot perceive another world all around us?"

Is there a standard answer to that as well?

Questions with no answer, I realise that. I just don't agree with the implication from HF that no rational and intelligent person can believe in God. Many of the world's most foremost scientists have been believers, for example, and their religious beliefs didn't impact their discoveries.

 

Not that many tbf.

[Guest alex]

I have heard that before. Agree with HF like. What a cop-out

 

"What senses do we lack that we cannot perceive another world all around us?"

Is there a standard answer to that as well?

Questions with no answer, I realise that. I just don't agree with the implication from HF that no rational and intelligent person can believe in God. Many of the world's most foremost scientists have been believers, for example, and their religious beliefs didn't impact their discoveries.

I don't disagree with you there. I'm a bit agnostic myself although that tends to be at the I don't really think there is a God end of the scale. Not saying I'm a great thinker like

I would say though that (I guess) a lot of the people you're talking about are from a bygone era. Also, when people compartmentalise the two parts of their life, i.e. Science and Religion to 'avoid' certain conflicts, I can't really get my head around how they can manage to do that in a rational way. I also think if you ignore 'recognised' Religious beliefs and practises in order to pursue your own version of Islam / Christianity etc. then I wonder why, to borrow Renton's phrase, you bother with the middle man at all. But hey, that's just me and we're only here once (or are we?) and I wholly agree with the person who said whatever gets you through the day as long as you aren't impacting on others.