Wikileaks

[Guest alex]

Heavyweight intellectual stuff this like.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

Heavyweight intellectual stuff this like.

 

The same sentiment could be expressed about your mum.

[LeazesMag 0]

Heavyweight intellectual stuff this like.

 

Indeed Alex.

 

Don't engage intellectual debate with someone who has a gun.

 

[Happy Face 29]

Journalists covering WikiLeaks would be wise to remember that when Assange released a trove of documents concerning the war in Afghanistan he said they would reveal that America is guilty (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/talibans-savagery) of “thousands” of possible war crimes. They did nothing of the sort. And when Assange released even more documents concerning the war in Iraq, the press repeated an entirely false claim that the documents demonstrate that 285,000 people were killed in the war (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/misreporting-iraqs-casualties_511758.html). The press was also quick to highlight any American mistakes revealed in the documents, especially with respect to civilian casualties. The real story is that the documents demonstrate – unambiguously – that the overwhelming majority of civilian casualties were caused by Iraq's and America's terrorist enemies, as well as "criminal events," not by the U.S. military.

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/ar...ge-deliver.aspx

 

 

anyone perusing the semi-secret diplomatic cables published by WikiLeaks this week will find more of the same. Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe is a "crazy old man." Muammar Qaddafi of Libya travels with a "voluptuous blonde" whom he describes as his "senior Ukrainian nurse." In the coming days, there will be many things to say about the specific details of these newly public documents. But before we get into all that, let's not lose the main point: Above all, this leak contains a treasure trove of things people regularly say off the record that they never say in public. These aren't records of human-rights abuses, they are accounts of conversations. And—just like July's WikiLeaks revelations about Afghanistan—this one confirms much that was publicly known, openly discussed, and even written about before.

 

In fact, the world's real secrets—the secrets of regimes where there is no free speech and tight control on all information—have yet to be revealed. This stuff is awkward and embarrassing, but it doesn't fundamentally change very much. How about a leak of Chinese diplomatic documents? Or Russian military cables? How about some stuff we don't actually know, like Iranian discussion of Iranian nuclear weapons, or North Korean plans for invasion of South Korea Korea? If WikiLeaks' founder Julian Assange is serious about his pursuit of "Internet openness"—and if his goal isn't, in fact, embarrassing the United States—that's where he'll look next. Somehow, I won't be surprised if he doesn't.

 

http://www.slate.com/id/2276169/

 

It's a lie to say the Iraq logs told us nothing new. I've posted the revelations earlier in the thread, many are listed here....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War_docu...s_leak#Contents

 

 

It's also a lie to say Wikileaks only concentrate on the US or have revealed nothing of regimes where there is no free speech. The very first leak they were responsible for was a Somali assassination order. They've leaked details on the corruption of Kenyan leader Daniel arap Moi. The BNP membership list, the climate research e-mails, the lists of forbidden or illegal web addresses for several countries, 86 telephone intercept recordings of Peruvian politicians and businessmen involved in the "Petrogate" oil scandal, toxic dumping in Africa, a report disclosing a "serious nuclear accident" at the Iranian Natanz nuclear facility in 2009.

 

You've commented on several of those leaks yourself iirc.

 

Assange reports what is leaked to him. He doesn't concoct leaks to hit a specific story to order.

[Happy Face 29]

...and perhaps the most important story from this release is not at all embarrassing for the US in my opinion. As stated on Balloon Juice...

 

Near everyone in he world wants the United States to attack Iran. They also want to make sure that it is the United States who is blamed for attacking Iran, and want no credit/blame/perception of involvement.

 

http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/11/28/wikileaks-reaction/

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

It's a lie to say the Iraq logs told us nothing new. I've posted the revelations earlier in the thread, many are listed here....

 

You've commented on several of those leaks yourself iirc.

 

Assange reports what is leaked to him. He doesn't concoct leaks to hit a specific story to order.

 

I have commented on several of the leaks from the site, and don't call me Iirc.

 

I was merely linking to the articles from Slate - much in the same way you like to post the dribblings of your beau JC - I offered no opinion on them. I saw an interview with Assange (or as his colleagues now refer to him, 'The Groper') where he detailed the leaks regarding Africa and the supposed consequences of them. The situation Wikileaks finds itself in has changed dramatically since then. The Groper has openly declared his intent for Wikileaks to help bring an end to any American presence in Iraq and Afghanistan. His main focus is clearly on the US and he doesn't try to hide this.

 

"He doesn't concoct leaks to hit a specific story to order."

 

The Groper has talked candidly (Youtube 'Assange interview', you've probably already seen them though) about the way in which he processes the raw information leaked to him to fit a specific story or narrative, for instance 'revealing US war crimes'. He says if he just released the information as he received it he believes it would sink without a trace in the media. My personal view on this latest leak is that the information is not of much interest (so far, I believe further leaks are to come soon and hopefully they will be more interesting), and if the site continues in this vein it will become redundant and may as well not exist. I do subscribe to the view in one of those articles that the leaks 'confirms much that was publicly known, openly discussed, and even written about before.' I have not seen any mind-blowing revelations from the site as of yet and that is a major disappointment.

I have to say (quick segue), I hear you've started a blog collating various statements from Ashley and his cohorts. I think this odd activity has driven you further into the dark annals of decrepitude and insanity. Your post is resembling a statement Llambiarse released about Keegan. I hope you do not emulate his other character traits and run around St. Jame's Park naked.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Kevin S. Assilleekunt

[Happy Face 29]

It's a lie to say the Iraq logs told us nothing new. I've posted the revelations earlier in the thread, many are listed here....

 

You've commented on several of those leaks yourself iirc.

 

Assange reports what is leaked to him. He doesn't concoct leaks to hit a specific story to order.

 

I have commented on several of the leaks from the site, and don't call me Iirc.

 

I was merely linking to the articles from Slate - much in the same way you like to post the dribblings of your beau JC - I offered no opinion on them.

 

 

And I was merely explaining why those articles were wrong.

 

I saw an interview with Assange (or as his colleagues now refer to him, 'The Groper') where he detailed the leaks regarding Africa and the supposed consequences of them. The situation Wikileaks finds itself in has changed dramatically since then. The Groper has openly declared his intent for Wikileaks to help bring an end to any American presence in Iraq and Afghanistan. His main focus is clearly on the US and he doesn't try to hide this.

 

 

"He doesn't concoct leaks to hit a specific story to order."

 

The Groper has talked candidly (Youtube 'Assange interview', you've probably already seen them though) about the way in which he processes the raw information leaked to him to fit a specific story or narrative, for instance 'revealing US war crimes'. He says if he just released the information as he received it he believes it would sink without a trace in the media.

 

I think he's explained how he aims to maximise coverage of the most explosive leaks. I've never seen anything from Wikileaks to suggest they're concentrating exclusively on the US or their actions in the middle east though. There's been no narrowing of focus. In august they leaked the Loveparade 2010 Duisburg planning documents following the stampede, they're making noises about the albanian oil blowout. They've got BP documents and they've said they're going to expose the "despotic" regime of the Russian government.

 

My personal view on this latest leak is that the information is not of much interest (so far, I believe further leaks are to come soon and hopefully they will be more interesting), and if the site continues in this vein it will become redundant and may as well not exist. I do subscribe to the view in one of those articles that the leaks 'confirms much that was publicly known, openly discussed, and even written about before.' I have not seen any mind-blowing revelations from the site as of yet and that is a major disappointment.

 

I refer you to the previously posted list.

[Happy Face 29]

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has denounced the release of classified diplomatic cables as an "attack on the international community".

 

She even joked, quoting a conversation with a counterpart who told her: "Don't worry, you should see what we say about you."

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

You've already posted that list, it is not a list of great revelations that were hitherto unknown.

[Happy Face 29]

You've already posted that list, it is not a list of great revelations that were hitherto unknown.

 

 

I said I've already posted it.

 

you can keep saying they were not unknown....bnut it's a list of things that WERE unconfirmed at the very least.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

they've said they're going to expose the "despotic" regime of the Russian government.

 

Oh wow I thought everyone danced in furs and drank from chocolate fountains in Russia

[Happy Face 29]

they've said they're going to expose the "despotic" regime of the Russian government.

 

Oh wow I thought everyone danced in furs and drank from chocolate fountains in Russia

 

Most stories are confirmation of what we all presumed though.

 

Like Panorama tonight. Did anyone think FIFA were as honest as they day is long until tonight?

 

Evidence is a pretty important part of exposing wrong-doing.

[Happy Face 29]

they've said they're going to expose the "despotic" regime of the Russian government.

 

Oh wow I thought everyone danced in furs and drank from chocolate fountains in Russia

 

Also find it odd to quote a story that insists Wikileaks should expose Russian corruption, then laugh at the notion that they're planning to do exactly that.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

I was laughing at the phrasing you used.

[LeazesMag 0]

they've said they're going to expose the "despotic" regime of the Russian government.

 

Oh wow I thought everyone danced in furs and drank from chocolate fountains in Russia

 

Also find it odd to quote a story that insists Wikileaks should expose Russian corruption, then laugh at the notion that they're planning to do exactly that.

 

corruption is the way of the world squire. The sooner you accept it and get on with your life the better. Because there most definitely is fuck all you can do about it.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

He needs to get his burka off, it's blocking his vision

[Happy Face 29]

they've said they're going to expose the "despotic" regime of the Russian government.

 

Oh wow I thought everyone danced in furs and drank from chocolate fountains in Russia

 

Also find it odd to quote a story that insists Wikileaks should expose Russian corruption, then laugh at the notion that they're planning to do exactly that.

 

corruption is the way of the world squire. The sooner you accept it and get on with your life the better. Because there most definitely is fuck all you can do about it.

 

You've shown yourself to be above worrying about corruption. The way you're happy to leave MPs claiming tens of thousands from your taxes and muslim asylum seekers claiming benefits they aren't entitled to.

[ChezGiven 0]

I was laughing at the phrasing you used.

 

"despotic"?

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

I was laughing at the phrasing you used.

 

"despotic"?

 

They've said they're going to expose this despotism apparently; well thanks, I had no idea that Russia was like this.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

You've shown yourself to be above worrying about corruption. The way you're happy to leave MPs claiming tens of thousands from your taxes and muslim asylum seekers claiming benefits they aren't entitled to.

 

Wagner is on disability allowance as well; are Wikileaks going to be releasing any documents about the X Factor? I reckon that was a stitch-up

[ChezGiven 0]

Whats KSA's problem with Wikileaks anyway? I know Leazes has issues of national security firmly to mind.

 

At worst, if the information isnt that exciting then whats the problem? Its just a load of information that reveals some of the workings of global politics to the ordinary man.

[Happy Face 29]

I was laughing at the phrasing you used.

 

"despotic"?

 

They've said they're going to expose this despotism apparently; well thanks, I had no idea that Russia was like this.

 

Where?

 

If I expose the fat chairman at NUFC it's not to say I'm exposing Ashley's weight.

 

Love it when an debate descends to grammar btw.

[LeazesMag 0]

they've said they're going to expose the "despotic" regime of the Russian government.

 

Oh wow I thought everyone danced in furs and drank from chocolate fountains in Russia

 

Also find it odd to quote a story that insists Wikileaks should expose Russian corruption, then laugh at the notion that they're planning to do exactly that.

 

corruption is the way of the world squire. The sooner you accept it and get on with your life the better. Because there most definitely is fuck all you can do about it.

 

You've shown yourself to be above worrying about corruption. The way you're happy to leave MPs claiming tens of thousands from your taxes and muslim asylum seekers claiming benefits they aren't entitled to.

 

there's easy solutions if we had the bottle to take them, and didn't worry about what the hand wringing brigade think, but I get the feeling you spend a lot of time worrying about this sort of thing ?

 

You won't find any posts from me claiming I'm happy with MP's fiddling their claims, nor being happy with muslim asylum seekers claiming benefits they aren't entitled too, in fact you will find most comments I make on this particular baby to be the exact opposite if you take the trouble to read properly. Isn't it you who makes out a case for keeping immigrants here, who are "british" You certainly seem to think they can do what they want once they do arrive here because they are "entitled" to.

[Happy Face 29]

they've said they're going to expose the "despotic" regime of the Russian government.

 

Oh wow I thought everyone danced in furs and drank from chocolate fountains in Russia

 

Also find it odd to quote a story that insists Wikileaks should expose Russian corruption, then laugh at the notion that they're planning to do exactly that.

 

corruption is the way of the world squire. The sooner you accept it and get on with your life the better. Because there most definitely is fuck all you can do about it.

 

You've shown yourself to be above worrying about corruption. The way you're happy to leave MPs claiming tens of thousands from your taxes and muslim asylum seekers claiming benefits they aren't entitled to.

 

there's easy solutions if we had the bottle to take them, and didn't worry about what the hand wringing brigade think, but I get the feeling you spend a lot of time worrying about this sort of thing ?

 

You won't find any posts from me claiming I'm happy with MP's fiddling their claims, nor being happy with muslim asylum seekers claiming benefits they aren't entitled too, in fact you will find most comments I make on this particular baby to be the exact opposite if you take the trouble to read properly. Isn't it you who makes out a case for keeping immigrants here, who are "british" You certainly seem to think they can do what they want once they do arrive here because they are "entitled" to.

 

Point well and truly missed.

 

No Leazes, I'm well aware how you feel about immigrants. That was the point. My advice is to sopt worrying about it cos there'll always be immigrants. The sooner you accept it and get on with your life the better

[Meenzer 14326]

I was going to make some comment about preferring blokeinthepubleaks.org, but that might imply I enjoy hanging round pub toilets.