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Ben Arfa

ChezGiven

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Howay

Howay 12496

Posted
Posted

The bloke's barely played for us man, that massive post is all just theory. From his past we know he's a hot head but he's also an excellent passer and dribbler of the ball and he can defiantly improve our side we just need to find where best to fit him in and get him a good run of games in the premiership.

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Kitman

Kitman 2204

Posted
Posted

Baggio getting bogged down in a Stalingradesque debate as winter moves in... :lol:

 

 

 

 

"I think he's a very talented player that can have a big role for us, you may be surprised to hear that with the strawman arguments his fans have attempted to build up but if you read back through at no time have I ever said he isn't any good.

 

The doubts I have are as follows...

 

He will improve the current team: People seem to think all we have to do is select him over Best and we will become an even better side which I don't see as being the case.

 

One of the main reasons we are where we are in the league is down to the amount of work our players put in when we don't have the ball, we're not playing teams off the park by any stretch of the imagination but we are putting a ridiculous amount of effort in closing down and tracking back when we don't have the ball, a good example of this is when I posted on Saturday about Ba not having the best of games but he still put the work in and that is the same for all of our midfield and attack recently, we've seen with Cabaye that he hasn't been up to his high standards lately that he set at the beginning of the season but he's still putting plenty of work in covering the pitch and the same goes for Ba, Best, Tiote and Jonas.

 

Ben Arfa is different in that he's not going to graft but he's technically more gifted than anyone else in our attack, that's great when he's up to speed and if he settles into the team but at the moment he isn't which makes me think he could end up being a passenger which we can't afford to have, this opinion is backed up by people who watched the Blackburn game that he started and was anonymous for large parts of it apparently.

 

People bring up how long Coloccini and Enrique took to settle in before finding their best form but the difference now is that we have a very good alternative in Best and Ba that have formed a good partnership, back then if we didn't play Colo we had Taylor who was equally poor and N'Zogbia to cover Enrique, I would hate to throw away our current position by attempting to get a player that isn't up to speed and might not be any time soon.

 

Partnership with Ba: The second problem I have is the potential partnership with Ba, I think people presume that Ba is a target man type but I don't see this as being the case and at West Ham and before coming to England he's played in more a withdrawn role, a role he continues to play here with great success (15 goals in 22 Premiership games) so how do him and Ben Arfa play in a withdrawn position unless we're going with 3 up top? People have suggested that Ba could play more of a target man role but when he's been as successful as all but a few in front of goal playing this role why should he change to accommodate someone?

 

So not only do I think he lacks the work ethic for this current team but I think him playing in a number 10 role with Ba could leave the whole attack imbalanced, all this while he' clearly not up to speed anyway.

 

Team player?: In the 10 appearances he's made since he's been here for me he's looked anything but a team player which I think is important for anyone playing in the number 10 role, we've heard people compliment him on his dribbling skills and such but how many occasions can you say he was an important factor in making something happen for someone else since he's been here? That's not having a go at the lad but it's a pretty obvious thing to notice and something that he can get away with more out wide than when he's relied on to be the heartbeat of the team.

 

People have said that it's because of a lack of options in front of him but if he is going to play that role then it's only going to be Ba there the majority of the time anyway, he's going to find himself in plenty of similar situations like he did against Everton but is he going to continue to play for himself instead of others like a VDV would?

 

I know people think I'm being harsh on the lad as he's been out injured so long but I don't think I am, if people were not demanding him being in the starting line up up top now then I'd happily give him his cameo's to get up to speed like I am with Gosling, however if he is going to have a starting place for us then I expect better than what we've seen so far and I don't care how long he's been out either, like I said if he's not performing he's a luxury that I don't think we can carry and maintain our current form at the same time.

 

Long term I think he's going to struggle to get in up top, not because of Best as I don't think Pardew rates him that highly but I see whichever striker he buys if it's Maiga or whoever I see it with a view of linking up with Ba, our biggest goal threat by some distance, so what I'd like to see is HBA played out on the right which will give him his chance to get his fitness back and then for us to buy a solid right back (OMG Santon is a right back etc) that is happy to sit and cover leaving HBA to have a more free role out wide, someone like Onuoha would be great for the role.

 

So to summarise I don't think Ben Arfa is s****, I also don't think him having one good game, scoring a great goal like he did against Everton or getting an assist would have proven me wrong which some are building their straw men to mean, it's about looking at the bigger picture and seeing if the form of the team improves or drops off over a longer period than that."

 

Its an excellent post tbf

 

I followed him up to the point he said play Ben Arfa on the right. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

I think it makes more sense to play him off the bench until he's fully fit and match sharp, which he isn't atm. He'll get a run in the team due to injuries anyway and then it's up to him to keep his place.

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Christmas Tree

Christmas Tree 4676

Posted
Posted

CBA to quote but you said Ben Arfa is still struggling for fitness so you suggested we send him out on loan.

 

But I didnt,.......... which I guess is why you are not quoting me

 

Maybe you didn't suggest it but you defended the idea:

 

http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,70504.22075.html

 

Wrong again! Fancy a third go?

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Christmas Tree

Christmas Tree 4676

Posted
Posted

Baggio getting bogged down in a Stalingradesque debate as winter moves in...

 

 

 

 

"I think he's a very talented player that can have a big role for us, you may be surprised to hear that with the strawman arguments his fans have attempted to build up but if you read back through at no time have I ever said he isn't any good.

 

The doubts I have are as follows...

 

He will improve the current team: People seem to think all we have to do is select him over Best and we will become an even better side which I don't see as being the case.

 

One of the main reasons we are where we are in the league is down to the amount of work our players put in when we don't have the ball, we're not playing teams off the park by any stretch of the imagination but we are putting a ridiculous amount of effort in closing down and tracking back when we don't have the ball, a good example of this is when I posted on Saturday about Ba not having the best of games but he still put the work in and that is the same for all of our midfield and attack recently, we've seen with Cabaye that he hasn't been up to his high standards lately that he set at the beginning of the season but he's still putting plenty of work in covering the pitch and the same goes for Ba, Best, Tiote and Jonas.

 

Ben Arfa is different in that he's not going to graft but he's technically more gifted than anyone else in our attack, that's great when he's up to speed and if he settles into the team but at the moment he isn't which makes me think he could end up being a passenger which we can't afford to have, this opinion is backed up by people who watched the Blackburn game that he started and was anonymous for large parts of it apparently.

 

People bring up how long Coloccini and Enrique took to settle in before finding their best form but the difference now is that we have a very good alternative in Best and Ba that have formed a good partnership, back then if we didn't play Colo we had Taylor who was equally poor and N'Zogbia to cover Enrique, I would hate to throw away our current position by attempting to get a player that isn't up to speed and might not be any time soon.

 

Partnership with Ba: The second problem I have is the potential partnership with Ba, I think people presume that Ba is a target man type but I don't see this as being the case and at West Ham and before coming to England he's played in more a withdrawn role, a role he continues to play here with great success (15 goals in 22 Premiership games) so how do him and Ben Arfa play in a withdrawn position unless we're going with 3 up top? People have suggested that Ba could play more of a target man role but when he's been as successful as all but a few in front of goal playing this role why should he change to accommodate someone?

 

So not only do I think he lacks the work ethic for this current team but I think him playing in a number 10 role with Ba could leave the whole attack imbalanced, all this while he' clearly not up to speed anyway.

 

Team player?: In the 10 appearances he's made since he's been here for me he's looked anything but a team player which I think is important for anyone playing in the number 10 role, we've heard people compliment him on his dribbling skills and such but how many occasions can you say he was an important factor in making something happen for someone else since he's been here? That's not having a go at the lad but it's a pretty obvious thing to notice and something that he can get away with more out wide than when he's relied on to be the heartbeat of the team.

 

People have said that it's because of a lack of options in front of him but if he is going to play that role then it's only going to be Ba there the majority of the time anyway, he's going to find himself in plenty of similar situations like he did against Everton but is he going to continue to play for himself instead of others like a VDV would?

 

I know people think I'm being harsh on the lad as he's been out injured so long but I don't think I am, if people were not demanding him being in the starting line up up top now then I'd happily give him his cameo's to get up to speed like I am with Gosling, however if he is going to have a starting place for us then I expect better than what we've seen so far and I don't care how long he's been out either, like I said if he's not performing he's a luxury that I don't think we can carry and maintain our current form at the same time.

 

Long term I think he's going to struggle to get in up top, not because of Best as I don't think Pardew rates him that highly but I see whichever striker he buys if it's Maiga or whoever I see it with a view of linking up with Ba, our biggest goal threat by some distance, so what I'd like to see is HBA played out on the right which will give him his chance to get his fitness back and then for us to buy a solid right back (OMG Santon is a right back etc) that is happy to sit and cover leaving HBA to have a more free role out wide, someone like Onuoha would be great for the role.

 

So to summarise I don't think Ben Arfa is s****, I also don't think him having one good game, scoring a great goal like he did against Everton or getting an assist would have proven me wrong which some are building their straw men to mean, it's about looking at the bigger picture and seeing if the form of the team improves or drops off over a longer period than that."

 

Its an excellent post tbf

 

I followed him up to the point he said play Ben Arfa on the right. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

I think it makes more sense to play him off the bench until he's fully fit and match sharp, which he isn't atm. He'll get a run in the team due to injuries anyway and then it's up to him to keep his place.

 

But he's played most of his career on the wing ( so others who say they know, have said).

 

(and well done with that suicidal run thing you fool) :)

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hostile_statue

hostile_statue 0

Posted
Posted

CBA to quote but you said Ben Arfa is still struggling for fitness so you suggested we send him out on loan.

 

But I didnt,.......... which I guess is why you are not quoting me

 

Maybe you didn't suggest it but you defended the idea:

 

http://www.newcastle...0504.22075.html

 

Wrong again! Fancy a third go?

 

No, since you don't stand by your words / change the meaning of them to adjust your "arguments", it's pointless.

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Christmas Tree

Christmas Tree 4676

Posted
Posted

CBA to quote but you said Ben Arfa is still struggling for fitness so you suggested we send him out on loan.

 

But I didnt,.......... which I guess is why you are not quoting me

 

Maybe you didn't suggest it but you defended the idea:

 

http://www.newcastle...0504.22075.html

 

Wrong again! Fancy a third go?

 

No, since you don't stand by your words / change the meaning of them to adjust your "arguments", it's pointless.

 

Game set and match.

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StoneColdStephenIreland

StoneColdStephenIreland 74

Posted
Posted

Baggio getting bogged down in a Stalingradesque debate as winter moves in...

 

 

 

 

"I think he's a very talented player that can have a big role for us, you may be surprised to hear that with the strawman arguments his fans have attempted to build up but if you read back through at no time have I ever said he isn't any good.

 

The doubts I have are as follows...

 

He will improve the current team: People seem to think all we have to do is select him over Best and we will become an even better side which I don't see as being the case.

 

One of the main reasons we are where we are in the league is down to the amount of work our players put in when we don't have the ball, we're not playing teams off the park by any stretch of the imagination but we are putting a ridiculous amount of effort in closing down and tracking back when we don't have the ball, a good example of this is when I posted on Saturday about Ba not having the best of games but he still put the work in and that is the same for all of our midfield and attack recently, we've seen with Cabaye that he hasn't been up to his high standards lately that he set at the beginning of the season but he's still putting plenty of work in covering the pitch and the same goes for Ba, Best, Tiote and Jonas.

 

Ben Arfa is different in that he's not going to graft but he's technically more gifted than anyone else in our attack, that's great when he's up to speed and if he settles into the team but at the moment he isn't which makes me think he could end up being a passenger which we can't afford to have, this opinion is backed up by people who watched the Blackburn game that he started and was anonymous for large parts of it apparently.

 

People bring up how long Coloccini and Enrique took to settle in before finding their best form but the difference now is that we have a very good alternative in Best and Ba that have formed a good partnership, back then if we didn't play Colo we had Taylor who was equally poor and N'Zogbia to cover Enrique, I would hate to throw away our current position by attempting to get a player that isn't up to speed and might not be any time soon.

 

Partnership with Ba: The second problem I have is the potential partnership with Ba, I think people presume that Ba is a target man type but I don't see this as being the case and at West Ham and before coming to England he's played in more a withdrawn role, a role he continues to play here with great success (15 goals in 22 Premiership games) so how do him and Ben Arfa play in a withdrawn position unless we're going with 3 up top? People have suggested that Ba could play more of a target man role but when he's been as successful as all but a few in front of goal playing this role why should he change to accommodate someone?

 

So not only do I think he lacks the work ethic for this current team but I think him playing in a number 10 role with Ba could leave the whole attack imbalanced, all this while he' clearly not up to speed anyway.

 

Team player?: In the 10 appearances he's made since he's been here for me he's looked anything but a team player which I think is important for anyone playing in the number 10 role, we've heard people compliment him on his dribbling skills and such but how many occasions can you say he was an important factor in making something happen for someone else since he's been here? That's not having a go at the lad but it's a pretty obvious thing to notice and something that he can get away with more out wide than when he's relied on to be the heartbeat of the team.

 

People have said that it's because of a lack of options in front of him but if he is going to play that role then it's only going to be Ba there the majority of the time anyway, he's going to find himself in plenty of similar situations like he did against Everton but is he going to continue to play for himself instead of others like a VDV would?

 

I know people think I'm being harsh on the lad as he's been out injured so long but I don't think I am, if people were not demanding him being in the starting line up up top now then I'd happily give him his cameo's to get up to speed like I am with Gosling, however if he is going to have a starting place for us then I expect better than what we've seen so far and I don't care how long he's been out either, like I said if he's not performing he's a luxury that I don't think we can carry and maintain our current form at the same time.

 

Long term I think he's going to struggle to get in up top, not because of Best as I don't think Pardew rates him that highly but I see whichever striker he buys if it's Maiga or whoever I see it with a view of linking up with Ba, our biggest goal threat by some distance, so what I'd like to see is HBA played out on the right which will give him his chance to get his fitness back and then for us to buy a solid right back (OMG Santon is a right back etc) that is happy to sit and cover leaving HBA to have a more free role out wide, someone like Onuoha would be great for the role.

 

So to summarise I don't think Ben Arfa is s****, I also don't think him having one good game, scoring a great goal like he did against Everton or getting an assist would have proven me wrong which some are building their straw men to mean, it's about looking at the bigger picture and seeing if the form of the team improves or drops off over a longer period than that."

 

Its an excellent post tbf

 

I followed him up to the point he said play Ben Arfa on the right. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

I think it makes more sense to play him off the bench until he's fully fit and match sharp, which he isn't atm. He'll get a run in the team due to injuries anyway and then it's up to him to keep his place.

 

But he's played most of his career on the wing ( so others who say they know, have said).

 

(and well done with that suicidal run thing you fool) :)

 

Playing on the wing in a 4-3-3 formation or behind the striker thats what he's used too, not playing on the right or left in a 4-4-2 formation

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Andrew

Andrew 4713

Posted
Posted

you can see with the speed of thought and the passes he plays, he adds a totally different dimension to us, the quickness in his feet and mind when he gets the ball back in and past lescott at 1.57 is natural talent that no one else in the squad has

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