The Question: What have been the tactical lessons of World Cup 2010?

[Dr Gloom 22149]

decent blog in the guardian about use of different formations in this world cup. i wonder whether chris hughton is smart enough to move with the times and adopt a similar approach in the premier league and whether we have the players that are capable of playing in a 4-2-3-1 formation. i don't think we have a striker good enough to play up front on his own. we might have midfielders that could fill some of those positions though. not sure who the defensive pair would be. in order for this formation to work, it helps if you're defensive two can also pass the ball a bit, which could in theory rule out alan smith.

 

one thing that has emerged from this world cup though is the best teams no longer use 4-4-2.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2010/...cs-the-question

[PaddockLad 17654]

Didnt the Premier League go very "4 3 3/4 5 1" after Greece won the Euros in 2004?

[Ayatollah Hermione 14053]

Keegan proved a couple of seasons back that the players then could perform well in a 4-3-3 but I don't think we have the squad to do it now. As for 4-2-3-1, i have doubt whether Carroll is good enough yet for that sort of role and like you say, we're lacking in proper defensive midfielders (if you excuse the term 'proper'). I'd think we don't have the players available to play like that just yet so we'll probably see 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 all season, for better or worse.

[Dr Gloom 22149]

Didnt the Premier League go very "4 3 3/4 5 1" after Greece won the Euros in 2004?

 

sure, it's been gradually going that way for a few seasons now.

 

i just thought it was an interesting blog, not only because it highlights the different takes on 4-3-3 but also because it's so widespread now. england were one of the few teams employing a traditional 4-4-2. not many of the other teams played with more than one central striker either. of those that did, i thnk only the argies got into the quarter finals.

 

newcastle mainly employed 4-4-2 in the championship under hughton last year. i reckon it's probably time for us to move with the times. a 4-4-2 with our current crop will get over run in midfield. plus i doubt carrol and lovenkrands will cut it as a front pair against top flight back fours.

[Ayatollah Hermione 14053]

Didnt the Premier League go very "4 3 3/4 5 1" after Greece won the Euros in 2004?

 

sure, it's been gradually going that way for a few seasons now.

 

i just thought it was an interesting blog, not only because it highlights the different takes on 4-3-3 but also because it's so widespread now. england were one of the few teams employing a traditional 4-4-2. not many of the other teams played with more than one central striker either. of those that did, i thnk only the argies got into the quarter finals.

 

newcastle mainly employed 4-4-2 in the championship under hughton last year. i reckon it's probably time for us to move with the times. a 4-4-2 with our current crop will get over run in midfield. plus i doubt carrol and lovenkrands will cut it as a front pair against top flight back fours.

 

I agree in principle but it would take signing a fair few players (which I can actually see happening, just not players of a very good standard). While the team definitely needs to be improved if we're going to do anything worthwhile in the next few years. Say we're going with 4-2-3-1, for arguments sake, you could have the 3 of Guti-Nolan/Guthrie-Routledge but who would be in the defensive roles? Barton maybe? We don't really have a "tackler" in midfield. I think Nolan could be a fairly decent spoiler but I assume Hughton's going to play him further up since it worked well last season in spots. You could sign a defensive midfielder certainly but a good one of those sets you back a fair bit and we don't have the money. I don't think Carroll is good enough to be up front by himself in his first full season in the PL too.

 

We're definitely in for a slog if we keep the same formation as last season though, I agree. We were getting overrun by the likes of Derby sometimes last season.

[Dr Gloom 22149]

so if we employ that formation, with the current crop it will look something like this:

 

 

------------------------------given

 

simpson/perch-------collocini-------williamson/taylor------------enrique

 

---------------------smith-------------guthrie

 

-------routledge------------nolan------------------gutierrez

 

------------------------------carroll

 

 

i think giving the wide men more freedom to support the front man is a good idea. giving them less responsibility when it comes to tracking back because there are two holding midfielders protecting the back four is a good move i reckon.

 

i have doubts though over whether smith is good enough in that defensive role. same goes for guthrie. and can carroll play up top on his own? looking at that i would say we need a new striker for sure, a central midfielder and ideally a new right back though i'm guessing that's why we got perch in

[AmericanMag 0]

so if we employ that formation, with the current crop it will look something like this:

 

 

------------------------------given

 

simpson/perch-------collocini-------williamson/taylor------------enrique

 

---------------------smith-------------guthrie

 

-------routledge------------nolan------------------gutierrez

 

------------------------------carroll

 

 

i think giving the wide men more freedom to support the front man is a good idea. giving them less responsibility when it comes to tracking back because there are two holding midfielders protecting the back four is a good move i reckon.

 

i have doubts though over whether smith is good enough in that defensive role. same goes for guthrie. and can carroll play up top on his own? looking at that i would say we need a new striker for sure, a central midfielder and ideally a new right back though i'm guessing that's why we got perch in

[sniffer 0]

I must've missed Given signing when I was on me holidays.

 

How much did we pay for him?

[KingKev 0]

so if we employ that formation, with the current crop it will look something like this:

 

 

------------------------------given

 

simpson/perch-------collocini-------williamson/taylor------------enrique

 

---------------------smith-------------guthrie

 

-------routledge------------nolan------------------gutierrez

 

------------------------------carroll

 

 

i think giving the wide men more freedom to support the front man is a good idea. giving them less responsibility when it comes to tracking back because there are two holding midfielders protecting the back four is a good move i reckon.

 

i have doubts though over whether smith is good enough in that defensive role. same goes for guthrie. and can carroll play up top on his own? looking at that i would say we need a new striker for sure, a central midfielder and ideally a new right back though i'm guessing that's why we got perch in

I agree with you and think this team would be struggling. Carroll isn't a Wayne Rooney who can play this position, Nolan won't get a sniff in the PL anyway I reckon - Hughton will play him nevertheless. We all know how Smith is going to do, and I'm not sure about Guthrie in the defensive role either. Moving him or Barton into Nolan's role behind the striker should be worth a try. Wide men are okay.

 

So if we really were to play this system, we'd be in need of a decent holding midfielder and a striker who loves playing on his own up front... forget about it. A decent striker will cost £6m+, same goes for the midfielder.

 

I also fear the lack of replacements. Routledge & Guti seem okay to me, but as soon as one of them gets injured we'll be in trouble.