England v Germany

[Gemmill 44879]

And that's just the blokes.

[Ayatollah Hermione 13867]

Hockey club.

 

 

Freshest blart mind. Short skirs etc.

 

Forearms like Hulk Hogan though.

[Park Life 71]

Hockey club.

 

 

Freshest blart mind. Short skirs etc.

 

Forearms like Hulk Hogan though.

 

[Kevin 1]

DUNGA RESIGNS

[Asprilla 96]

I can't remember being less bothered about watching Brazil play tbf. Apparently the country didn't take to him either.

[Barney 0]

He should have subbed Melo off after he got the 1st yellow.

[Craig 6682]

DUNGA RESIGNS

 

Hardly a fucking shock, like...

[khay 10]

there is a thread for this.

 

England have been out for a while.

[Isegrim 9775]

Isegrim could've come on here to gloat but he's made a dignified silence.

 

Isegrim I salute you, I actually hope GERMANY win tomorrow, I think they'll get through.

 

Thanks.

 

I don't know about today's match. It's probably going to be a battle of two dodgy defences, so it depends what they throw at us and we at them. If Messi only has a half decent day he'll most likely murder us.

[Park Life 71]

Mr Lurve, as they kept calling him at the pre-match press conference, promises a "cut-throat fight" when Germany face Argentina in Cape Town. Here, in a combustible World Cup quarter-final, is the perfect test of the new German identity. Still strong in spirit, but now thrilling to the eye, the Nationalmannschaft want to be the most entertaining side in South Africa.

 

Joachim Löw's employers are not declining any compliments. "It was very encouraging to see that victory against England in Bloemfontein was not necessarily due to the old 'German' virtues of running, fighting and grinding out a result," Wolfgang Niersbach, the DFB's general secretary, says, "but rather to a superiority of skills that, thankfully, even many England fans were ready to acknowledge."

 

This response to the Guardian's questions about Germany's stylistic transformation under first Jürgen Klinsmann and now Löw conveys the bright new mood of England's nemesis. There might seem a predictability about the urge to laud the German system as Löw's men prepare to confront Diego Maradona's Argentina but the Bundesliga's output of young talent shames the Football Association and the Premier League.

 

"Ranking and results are not the only criteria. We have to look at our style, our play, our intentions," Löw says. "We thought about what football we wanted to display, what philosophy we wanted to follow, and how we'd implement that. We had an emotional match against England and after the 4-1 win we were enthusiastic. But the joy over that win lasted for a short time only. We know there's more to come. We want to go further."

 

The story of this World Cup team's surge to a reprise of the acrimonious 2006 quarter-final is Löw's ambitious coaching and the successful integration of the stars of last summer's European Championship-winning Under-21s: Mesut Ozil, Thomas Müller, Sami Khedira, Manuel Neuer and Jérôme Boateng. Niersbach says: "Frankly, we had not expected to be able to reap the rewards so soon. Last year's triumph at U21 level has visibly added strength to this senior side, but let's not forget that nothing comes by itself – our current U21 squad is having the hardest of times to even qualify for the 2011 edition of the tournament in Denmark."

 

Müller and Ozil have added zest and ingenuity to the left-footed power of Lukas Podolski and macho foraging of Miroslav Klose, who wins his 100th cap tomorrow six days after scoring his 50th international goal, against England. Niersbach tries to define his country's archetype: "Not just German footballers, but any player representing his or her country at international level is expected to bring absolute fitness to the table. Top physical condition is the be-all and end-all, without which the most diligent talent spotting, the best tactical education, will mean nothing.

 

"In terms of personal qualities, it is vital that players possess willpower, a sense of commitment, self-confidence and the ability to assert themselves, as well as a character beyond reproach."

 

At the sharp end of an overachieving structure shines the Bundestrainer, "Yogi" Löw, who was Klinsmann's No2 in 2004-06 before guiding Germany to the Euro 2008 final. Löw, 50, is emerging as Europe's smartest tactician at international level. His masterstroke was to abandon 4-4-2 midway through the last European Championship in favour of a 4-2-3-1 formation that has turned Müller and Podolski into lethal wide attackers while Ozil floats in the No10 position and Bastian Schweinsteiger and Khedira offer deeper midfield solidity.

 

Germany's quick evolution defies domestic expectations. In March despair accompanied the 1-0 loss in a friendly to Argentina and when Michael Ballack was ruled out through injury after the FA Cup final many German pundits talked as if it were now futile to board a plane to South Africa. This week Lothar Matthäus theorised that Ballack's absence has been a blessing because it quickened up Germany's attacking play.

 

Niersbach says that after his country's early exit from Euro 2000 "the German FA has invested an annual €20m [£16.5m] earmarked for talent promotion in the widest sense of the word. At grassroots level, a nationwide network of 366 training centres has been set up, mostly using the infrastructure of local clubs with above-average facilities, where 14,000 youngsters aged 11-14 receive extra tuition by way of a weekly two-hour training session imparted by a DFB-appointed coach. This is in addition to the training they do with their respective clubs. It is more than likely that some of them will feature in the German national team eight years from now.

 

rest here

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/20...0-germany-flair

[Ken 119]

Right, so 31 pages and everyone still agrees England will always be shit whatever the FA attempt to do....

[Bizza 105]

Where's Isegrim these days?

[Ayatollah Hermione 13867]

Where's Isegrim these days?

 

Drinking lager out of glass the size of a chair leg, I should imagine.

[Park Life 71]

How Germany reinvented itself

 

 

In 1997, German football was on top of the world. Borussia Dortmund and Schalke 04, the two powerhouses from the Ruhr area, had won the Champions League and UEFA Cup, respectively. A year earlier, Berti Vogts' Germany had triumphed in the Euro 1996 final against the Czechs.

 

Below the radar, however, something strange and disconcerting was happening: Germany was running out of decent players. The influx from GDR-trained professionals that was supposed to make "Germany unbeatable for years to come" (according to Franz Beckenbauer after winning the World Cup in 1990) had dried up along with the funding for the specialized sports schools where they had been drilled from a very young age. In the Bundesliga, newly rich clubs awash with TV money had gone on a spending spree, doubling the number of foreigners from 17 percent (1992) to 34 percent (1997) in five years.

 

Desperate for strikers in particular, national manager Vogts ensured that South-African born Sean Dundee, a Karlsruher FC player without any German background, was fast-tracked for German citizenship. Dundee received his passport in January 1997 but never played for Germany after picking up an injury before his first scheduled game, a friendly against Israel, and losing his form soon after.

 

Vogts' successor, Erich Ribbeck, equally desperate, approached another Bundesliga import, Brazilian forward Paulo Rink (Leverkusen). Rink, it turned out, had German grandparents and was quickly introduced to the national team. He picked up 13 caps from 1998 to 2000.

 

The cases of Rink and Dundee, both unprecedented in German football since the war, demonstrated that something was very wrong. The disappointing quarterfinal exit against Croatia at the 1998 World Cup then made it plain to see: not enough talent was coming through. In the Bundesliga, the percentage of foreigners had risen again, to 50 percent by the time the season kicked off in 2000.

 

The German FA realized that something had to be done. It looked at the French system and decided that something similar was needed. In May 1999, FA vice president Beckenbauer, first-team manager Ribbeck, Bayer Leverkusen general manager Reiner Calmund and FA Director of Youth Development Dietrich Weise presented a new concept for producing young German footballers. All across the country, 121 national talent centers would be built to help 10- to 17-year-olds with technical practice. Each center would employ two full-time coaches at a cost of $15.6 million over five years. The second key point was a new requirement for all 36 professional clubs in Bundesliga and Bundesliga 2 to build youth academies.

 

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/socc...l#ixzz0sdiZmNaM

[Tooj 17]

One for Parky - although it's probably already been posted.

 

Jarrod Hill believes a lot of the woes that the England team have recently faced could have been avoided – if the Football Association had listened in the past.

 

Now that the dust has started to settle on yet another disappointing World Cup campaign, everyone is looking at the England team and asking the question, what happens now?

 

Howard Wilkinson, the Football Association’s former Technical Director, believes that our development of young players needs to become more structured, focusing more on technical and tactical awareness than physical fitness training.

 

His ‘Charter for Quality’ described a national academy system that from grass roots level pays greater attention to developing individuals technical education and dismissing the need to produce youth sides that win football matches.

 

Wilkinson believed the focus to produce youth sides that win games only encourages clubs to recruit the biggest and strongest boys, at a young age and not to develop the skills of the technically gifted.

 

He went on to describe a system that only allows small pitches and teams of five to seven players to help focus playing time on developing skill levels.

 

He also states that it is IMPERATIVE that we have a national development centre for our youth players up to the age of 23, whilst mentioning the possible need to focus tactical awareness towards playing a more forward thinking formation of 4-3-3 or 4-5-1.

 

This depended on shape and possession of the ball, as he views this as how all national sides will play in the near future.

 

I know what you are all thinking, sounds great but your timing is lousy Howard, but what if I told you Howard Wilkinson wrote this back in 1998?

 

He was asked by the FA to write a report and discuss possible changes to our youth development, that would ensure our national side progresses. His research included visiting countries across the world and speaking to experienced world renowned coaches, leaving no stone unturned and his report was well received.

 

But the FA did not act upon it, they never gave any reasons they just ignored it. We still do not have a recognised national development centre for our youth sides 12 years on, the FA re-built Wembley and I can only imagine they thought that was job done!

 

Now comes the really staggering and quite simply baffling news. Other countries, namely Germany looked at Howard Wilkinson’s report and recognised its usefulness, so went about implementing many of Wilkinson’s suggestions.

 

They focused on building a system that would produce and develop young players good enough to take them to the World Cup final in 2014. The young team that demolished our boys 4-1 are meant to be ready in four years time!

 

Why our FA continues to bury its collective head in the sand could have many reasons. It could be the fact is it is a large organisation with millions of pounds at its disposal, money which is meant to go towards protecting and developing football in England.

 

Yet, other than Trevor Brooking, there isn’t another ‘football man’ within the upper echelons of the organisation.

 

Maybe the FA are too focused on ensuring the golden goose, or Premier League as we know it, continues to be arguably the most commercially attractive league of football in the world.

 

Maybe Wilkinson’s charter would have upset too many of the top clubs to have been ‘workable’ for them, or more likely it was not in the best interests of the Manchester United’s and Liverpool’s of this world, as elements of the charter would have restricted their worldwide youth scouting systems.

 

It has been known for years that our FA is more than just influenced by our top clubs in England, it is practically run by them.

 

So what if England have had a disastrous World Cup, so what that we now develop less players than ever before, so long as Chelsea, Manchester United, Liverpool, and Arsenal all have success this season, do we really think that the foreign owners of these clubs give a damn about our national side?

 

The answer is no, pretty much the same answer the FA gave to Howard Wilkinson and his ‘Charter for Quality’ back in 1998.

 

And now look where we are.

 

Read more: http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2010/0...h#ixzz0sejzW4Eg

[Park Life 71]

We didn't even pay much attention to the Dutch academy system at Ajax when it and other Dutch clubs turned out quality players all more or less playing the same system at club level and international level.... And that was way back in the 80's. We paid no attention the French academy that turned out 20 odd internationls once set up in 1988 and produced the generation a decade or so later that won one world cup and appeared in another final. And now the Germans have gone and implemented it. I knew they had been really working the youth system here for the last few years, but never realised it was Howard Wilkinsons report!!!!

It's either the big English clubs want to continue to cherry pick with international scouting systems, spoilt by TV money as they are or the FA are clueless, it's a bit of both really. 364 foreign players in the PL would have gone unnoticed if we'd have got to the quarters again I guess.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Park Life

[Papa Lazaru 0]

Sadly all too familiar, the people who run football in this country are as useless as fifa and uefa and would rather piss away a billion on building wembley than investing in the future of football here.

 

Anyone with even a basic understanding of football seems able to grasp the things Wilkinson was talking about, its not ricket science. Kids should not be playing 11 a side at all, they should be allowed feedom to enjoy football and try out all their skills and tricks instead of the current ideals of getting lads who are big, strong, have stamina and can kick the ball hard!

 

Aside from Joe Cole the last genuine flair player this country produced at international level is Gazza and that is a disgrace, but how many potential flair players were lost because of our current system which doesn't favour that type of player at all. Where me and my mates used to play football there was a guy coaching a team of kids (prob about 7-10 age bracket) and his sessions consisted of the kids running around the park twice, running up a hill backwards, some warm ups and then 11 aside hoofing the ball up and down the pitch at the two biggest kids. This is a guy in charge of a proper kids team!

[PaddockLad 17260]

I think Wenger is/was right when he said that the talent pool in this country is very small in the first place. This may well have something to do with the iudicrous scene painted by Papa Lazaru in his post. But then again Harry Redknapp said that he doesn't think that a lot of young English players really "want" it enough,especially when compared with young lads from Africa.

 

So it may well be something to do with English society too;the communities which produced the Charltons,Norman Hunter, Gazza, Waddle etc etc now pretty much exist to a large extent on state hand outs;lifes necessities handed to people on a plate. No wonder there was no lads from the North East in the England squad. Thats certainly not the whole story but its partly true. Look at the players the industrial belt of Scotland used to turn out and look at how many top class ones have come through in the last 20 years. Once the notion that hard graft=reward is removed and is largely replaced with a benefits system then it looks like the game is up for those who may have at one time been desperate to escape a poor-ish upbringing by making the best of their talents and striving to be a professional footballer, or indeed a boxer.

 

I think our club culture is too strong to support a succesful national side and the type of football we are taught as kids is a poor start as well if we want to be big on the international stage where posession of the ball is paramount. I also think we should stop beating oursleves up about it every 4 years or so because its highly unlikely to change now, regardless of whose system we try to imitate,if we get to that stage at all.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

I think Wenger is/was right when he said that the talent pool in this country is very small in the first place. This may well have something to do with the iudicrous scene painted by Papa Lazaru in his post. But then again Harry Redknapp said that he doesn't think that a lot of young English players really "want" it enough,especially when compared with young lads from Africa.

 

So it may well be something to do with English society too;the communities which produced the Charltons,Norman Hunter, Gazza, Waddle etc etc now pretty much exist to a large extent on state hand outs;lifes necessities handed to people on a plate. No wonder there was no lads from the North East in the England squad. Thats certainly not the whole story but its partly true. Look at the players the industrial belt of Scotland used to turn out and look at how many top class ones have come through in the last 20 years. Once the notion that hard graft=reward is removed and is largely replaced with a benefits system then it looks like the game is up for those who may have at one time been desperate to escape a poor-ish upbringing by making the best of their talents and striving to be a professional footballer, or indeed a boxer.

 

I think our club culture is too strong to support a succesful national side and the type of football we are taught as kids is a poor start as well if we want to be big on the international stage where posession of the ball is paramount. I also think we should stop beating oursleves up about it every 4 years or so because its highly unlikely to change now, regardless of whose system we try to imitate,if we get to that stage at all.

Not only has society and culture changed but technology has too. When I was a kid it was kick-about at play-time, football at dinnertime then after school out with a ball to the park til it was dark or you got shouted back in. I rarely see kids kicking a ball about or practising skills these days, they'd rather be in their bedrooms playing FIFA I suppose. I guess that is the same in other countries too though?

[Andrew 4748]

Not only has society and culture changed but technology has too. When I was a kid it was kick-about at play-time, football at dinnertime then after school out with a ball to the park til it was dark or you got shouted back in. I rarely see kids kicking a ball about or practising skills these days, they'd rather be in their bedrooms playing FIFA I suppose. I guess that is the same in other countries too though?

same here, me and my mates still do it but we're in our 20s now, not like we're the next generation of stars but we play down on a local school all weather pitch and more often than not the 6-7 of us have the entire thing to ourselves, this is despite being smack bang in the middle of a hug set of housing estates, there should be dozens of kids on that thing right now, world cup on and the weather if glorious but alas we tend to play alone

[Park Life 71]

The free markets unchecked ( in this case the PL and all the tv money) will destroy anyting they colonise, unless there is a counter balancing infrastructure of rules and ideas. This is pretty much what has happenned, the rush for CL money has practically completely ruled out bringing through native English players, infact it was only when the germans had the tv money crisis that they started ditching their foreign contingent for cheaper home grown.

[PaddockLad 17260]

The free markets unchecked ( in this case the PL and all the tv money) will destroy anyting they colonise, unless there is a counter balancing infrastructure of rules and ideas. This is pretty much what has happenned, the rush for CL money has practically completely ruled out bringing through native English players, infact it was only when the germans had the tv money crisis that they started ditching their foreign contingent for cheaper home grown.

 

Yeah but that would imply that the lower league academies should be brimming with young English talent, which they quite plainly aren't. The talent by and large doesn't exist for any of a number of reasons mentioned, and theyve all conspired to make the next generation of young players very few in number.

[Guest Gordon McKeag]

Isegrim could've come on here to gloat but he's made a dignified silence.

 

Isegrim I salute you, I actually hope GERMANY win tomorrow, I think they'll get through.

 

Thanks.

 

I don't know about today's match. It's probably going to be a battle of two dodgy defences, so it depends what they throw at us and we at them. If Messi only has a half decent day he'll most likely murder us.

I was the only person of everyone know of all my mates and family and everyone I discussed it with that said Germany would win well and even on here. Ladbrokes wouldnt give me -1 so I had to settle for the win at 11/5/. England are wank, but we had more chance of winning than Argentina. Anyone that say di Maria should've scored fuckin shut up. Isegrim, honestly I hope you win the Welt Miestashaften. Good lad. Guten laden. Did you ever get AUF WIEDESEHEN PET, over there isegrim? If you did was dagmar a famous actress over there.

[Monkeys Fist 42443]

Brigitte Kahn was the actress that played Dagmar , Stevie.

Proper milf

[Guest Gordon McKeag]

Brigitte Kahn was the actress that played Dagmar , Stevie.

Proper milf

When you look at how ugly the people in the 80s were I'd agree. I bet she had a fuckin proper hairy minge though. Better than who Dennis ended up shaggin in Ally Frasers villa though. She had teeth like Borussia Dortmunds strip when they won the Champions League.