England v Germany

[Guest The Three Lions]

I don't think the scoreline flattered them at all tbh.

First there is the hype and then there is the anti-hype. We were never as good as people hoped but we have not turned to shit overnight.

We're about 8th best in the world but we didn't play to that potential in a single game. We were shite against Germany I'm afraid. Whether that's a true reflection of how good we actually are is a different matter. Germany are no great shakes which makes it worse for me.

 

What potential? There is no potential imo. England are not a top 10 side and things are only going to get worse.

You're just a wonderful ray of sunshine you aren't you?

[Bizza 105]

None of that lot deserve to wear the shirt again after that fucking abysmal display.

 

Time ditch the golden generation and start from scratch for Euro 2012.

[ChezGiven 0]

None of that lot deserve to wear the shirt again after that fucking abysmal display.

 

Time ditch the golden generation and start from scratch for Euro 2012.

 

Go on...

[Renton 21625]

I don't think the scoreline flattered them at all tbh.

First there is the hype and then there is the anti-hype. We were never as good as people hoped but we have not turned to shit overnight.

We're about 8th best in the world but we didn't play to that potential in a single game. We were shite against Germany I'm afraid. Whether that's a true reflection of how good we actually are is a different matter. Germany are no great shakes which makes it worse for me.

 

What potential? There is no potential imo. England are not a top 10 side and things are only going to get worse.

You're just a wonderful ray of sunshine you aren't you?

 

Where's the young talent coming through though? The premiership, for whatever reason, is killing the National game in England.

[Park Life 71]

Wouldn't have solved the problems at the back like. That's where we were truly abysmal - the two centre-halves. Terry'll probably get away with it though as Upson was more honest so looked worse (not saying he played well, he didn't) whereas the self-styled national hero just kept out the way.

 

It's also the fact that the back had no protection.

True, Barry was shit but the first goal can't be attributed to the midfield for a kick-off. Every time Germany played a long ball or a through ball it looked like they were going to get an effort on goal.

 

Untill we get a hub of two DM's who can pass and hold postion we are going to lose to the big sides. Also at international level who actually plays wingers these days? Even with Brazil moves are timed for the RB or LB to overlap and the again two DM's stay out of it.

The daft thing is we played with two nominal wingers but they're both probably better in the middle anyway

 

That's right and you have to blame Capello for that and also taking 4 players with suspect condition to the WC. King, Rio, Barry, Rooney.

[Holden McGroin 6585]

None of that lot deserve to wear the shirt again after that fucking abysmal display.

 

Time ditch the golden generation and start from scratch for Euro 2012.

 

I've been waiting for someone to say this!

 

Who would you play instead of the "golden generation" and who are these players anyway?

 

I'd probably say Cole, Terry, Rio, Lampard, Gerrard. Possibly Rooney?

[NJS 4386]

Wouldn't have solved the problems at the back like. That's where we were truly abysmal - the two centre-halves. Terry'll probably get away with it though as Upson was more honest so looked worse (not saying he played well, he didn't) whereas the self-styled national hero just kept out the way.

 

 

I think Terry was exposed because of Ferdinand's absence - Terry for me is a better version of Steven Taylor - doesn't read the game at all but is good at reacting and the do or dive blockes etc. Without a game reader he was shown up for that - especially by "clever" players.

 

Of course England really need Woodgate but that's a different pisser.

[Guest alex]

We don't have players coming through so you can't make wholesale changes. Well, you can, but the team would be totally shit (I mean, not qualfying for the Euros / next WC shit).

[ChezGiven 0]

I don't think the scoreline flattered them at all tbh.

First there is the hype and then there is the anti-hype. We were never as good as people hoped but we have not turned to shit overnight.

We're about 8th best in the world but we didn't play to that potential in a single game. We were shite against Germany I'm afraid. Whether that's a true reflection of how good we actually are is a different matter. Germany are no great shakes which makes it worse for me.

 

We were shite but it should have been 4-2.

 

[Park Life 71]

We don't have players coming through so you can't make wholesale changes. Well, you can, but the team would be totally shit (I mean, not qualfying for the Euros / next WC shit).

 

...and we won't have players coming through while the PL is piled high with non-English players.

[Guest alex]

And I'm not even that arsed you know. Which I find pretty sad in itself, in a way.

[Holden McGroin 6585]

We don't have players coming through so you can't make wholesale changes. Well, you can, but the team would be totally shit (I mean, not qualfying for the Euros / next WC shit).

 

Absolutely. I just find its a massive knee jerk reaction when people say that.

 

I doubt we'd get qualify with Huddlestone and Rodwell in centre midfield.

[Dr Gloom 21923]

if we do make wholesale changes, who goes and who stays?

 

Would a team liek this below do better than the current crop?

 

 

----------------------------Hart

 

Johnson------Rio------------------Dawson or Richards?-----A Cole

 

--------------------------Rodwell

 

-------------Gerrard------------------------Milner

 

------Lennon----------------------------------------Walcott

 

-------------------------Rooney

[Dr Gloom 21923]

And I'm not even that arsed you know. Which I find pretty sad in itself, in a way.

 

i was pretty gutted last night like. it's easy to get caught up in it and still believe we have a chance even when all the evidence points to the contrary.

 

it's also nice as a geordie based in london to go to the pub and watch a match where everyone is shouting for the same team.

[Renton 21625]

I loved England until about 1996. After this the hype was just unbearable for me. The final straw though was actually going to see them at the SOL when they played Turkey. The atmosphere was toxic and the nationalistic bollocks did my head in. There was trouble outside the ground too. Now I'm not arsed about them at all, I'll probably enjoy the tournament more without them tbh.

[NJS 4386]

I loved England until about 1996. After this the hype was just unbearable for me. The final straw though was actually going to see them at the SOL when they played Turkey. The atmosphere was toxic and the nationalistic bollocks did my head in. There was trouble outside the ground too. Now I'm not arsed about them at all, I'll probably enjoy the tournament more without them tbh.

 

I think going to the games is a benchmark of whether you care enough to rise above the shite - the number of wankers following England is immense and I have mates who acknowledge this but still embrace it. Even with my lack of the patriotism gene, I couldn't associate myself with England game goers even admitting that Newcastle's crowd has a fair proportion of similar elements - my tolerance passes that benchmark.

[Renton 21625]

I loved England until about 1996. After this the hype was just unbearable for me. The final straw though was actually going to see them at the SOL when they played Turkey. The atmosphere was toxic and the nationalistic bollocks did my head in. There was trouble outside the ground too. Now I'm not arsed about them at all, I'll probably enjoy the tournament more without them tbh.

 

I think going to the games is a benchmark of whether you care enough to rise above the shite - the number of wankers following England is immense and I have mates who acknowledge this but still embrace it. Even with my lack of the patriotism gene, I couldn't associate myself with England game goers even admitting that Newcastle's crowd has a fair proportion of similar elements - my tolerance passes that benchmark.

 

I got the tickets free but it was a mistake actually going. I've never felt such hatred before, not even in a Glasgow derby.

 

Talking of which, anyone going to Rangers?

[Dr Gloom 21923]

interesting guardian blog on this today

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/20...-players-future

 

The future cannot start too soon. It is no comfort for England's elimination at the hands of Germany in the last 16, but a disaffected public will not have to spend all that much longer with several of these players. This, after all, has been the oldest group ever to represent the country at the tournament. Germany's youth proved to be a devastating asset rather than a burden in Bloemfontein and no amount of indignation over a valid goal disallowed when the score was 2-1 alters that fact.

 

There was already a need for change even before the humdrum results in South Africa. While the European Championship of 2012 is an immediate target, every calculation really has to be made in the context of the next World Cup, in Brazil. Four years from now, the only members of the present group who will still be in their twenties are Joe Hart, Glen Johnson, James Milner, Aaron Lennon and Wayne Rooney.

 

A sprinkling of veterans is feasible, but in the light of the anti-climax Fabio Capello, if he stays in the post, ought to explore the alternatives thoroughly before tolerating so much as a remnant of the old guard. There is a simple beginning to be made at the very start of the line-up. An act of mercy might have spared Robert Green in the wake of the fiasco against USA, but Capello ditched him for the blunder and the West Ham goalkeeper will toil to rebuild his reputation.

 

As a 39-year-old, David James must know, too, that his career at the top-level will entail slipping back into the shadows of the England squad or vanishing entirely. In this area, though, his country are in luck since Joe Hart, following the loan spell with Birmingham City, returns to Manchester City and is entitled to believe he can make himself first-choice. He should impress if the sums spent by the club surround him with reliable team-mates.

 

The next phase for England appears far trickier when the outfield is considered, although Glen Johnson, who will be 29 when the tournament comes to Brazil, ought to have much of the dash he presently has and a great deal more know-how. Since experience counts in defence, John Terry, for all the torment in Bloemfontein, could still have value then as a 33-year-old. After all, it is already a very long time since the Chelsea centre-back looked in perfect condition. He prospers through decisiveness and know-how, attributes that will remain.

 

Acts of faith are obligatory when the seeming alternatives for 2014 are yet to convince. Michael Dawson can entertain hopes of being to the fore then despite the fact that, at 26, he is still uncapped. Those prospects reflect the shallow pool in which an England manager must fish. The 4-0 rout of the Under-21s by Germany in the European Championship final last year instilled reservations about the supposed emergence of new contenders.

 

However, that tournament was not uniformly blighted. England even won a penalty shoot-out against the host nation Sweden. The last kick to be taken by the victors was converted by Kieran Gibbs, the Arsenal left-back who has enjoyed the faith of Arsène Wenger. He was deemed suitable for high-profile games in the Premier League and Champions League while Gaël Clichy was absent.

 

Elsewhere in that England Under-21 squad, there was Jack Rodwell. Although he is capable of being a centre-half, the real potential of Everton's 19-year-old lies in his work as a defensive midfielder who can stride into the attack and shoot with great power. In time, Rodwell could have the already established James Milner as the team-mate who fills a more obviously attacking role in front of him.

 

The remainder of the midfield might also resolve itself without too much agonising. Capello already has youth on the flanks and whichever one of Lennon and Theo Walcott shows that it is feasible to be both fast and painstaking will ensure verve. There has to be a future, too, for Manchester City's Adam Johnson, an intriguing wide midfielder who progressed so speedily after the transfer from Middlesbrough in January that he nearly made it to this World Cup.

 

The more experienced players who can offer guidance should include Rooney, who, at 28, will still be craving to atone for his haplessness in South Africa. Identifying his sidekick in attack is a test, but Connor Wickham of Ipswich Town is hard to ignore. Sir Trevor Brooking, the FA's development director, views the side that won the Under-17 European Championship as a treasure trove. Wickham dazzled, striking twice in the semi-final with France and beating two men before curling home the winner against Spain in the final.

 

England, all the same, stops well short of proclaiming a golden generation. There are fewer contenders declaring themselves than we have been accustomed to since 2000. Even some of those who collapsed in Bloemfontein will be thought of more kindly for their better days. The men who follow may not be their equal.

 

England 2014 (4-1-3-1-1): Hart; Johnson, Dawson, Terry, Gibbs; Rodwell; Lennon, Milner, Johnson; Rooney; Wickham.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Dr Gloom

[Park Life 71]

The numbers of FOREIGN PLAYERS for Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool are 70,4%, 67,7%, 86,7% and 77,8% respectively.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Park Life

[Guest The Three Lions]

I don't think the scoreline flattered them at all tbh.

First there is the hype and then there is the anti-hype. We were never as good as people hoped but we have not turned to shit overnight.

We're about 8th best in the world but we didn't play to that potential in a single game. We were shite against Germany I'm afraid. Whether that's a true reflection of how good we actually are is a different matter. Germany are no great shakes which makes it worse for me.

 

What potential? There is no potential imo. England are not a top 10 side and things are only going to get worse.

You're just a wonderful ray of sunshine you aren't you?

 

Where's the young talent coming through though? The premiership, for whatever reason, is killing the National game in England.

What a load of shite. There's as many players in La Liga foreign as there are here, and Spain are mint. We can build a decent side with the likes of Adam Johnson and Cattermole, they're not going to win anything but we'll manage.

[Park Life 71]

I don't think the scoreline flattered them at all tbh.

First there is the hype and then there is the anti-hype. We were never as good as people hoped but we have not turned to shit overnight.

We're about 8th best in the world but we didn't play to that potential in a single game. We were shite against Germany I'm afraid. Whether that's a true reflection of how good we actually are is a different matter. Germany are no great shakes which makes it worse for me.

 

What potential? There is no potential imo. England are not a top 10 side and things are only going to get worse.

You're just a wonderful ray of sunshine you aren't you?

 

Where's the young talent coming through though? The premiership, for whatever reason, is killing the National game in England.

What a load of shite. There's as many players in La Liga foreign as there are here, and Spain are mint. We can build a decent side with the likes of Adam Johnson and Cattermole, they're not going to win anything but we'll manage.

 

It's about 50% in La Liga Stevie. It's 70% in the PL. Closer to 80% for the top four!!

Edited June 28, 2010 by Park Life

[Craig 6682]

The numbers of FOREIGN PLAYERS for Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool are 70,4%, 67,7%, 86,7% and 77,8% respectively.

 

This is the damning indictment for me.

 

The best 'English represented' clubs in the Premier League are Spurs and Man City and both of those are considered some way off the pace.

 

English (and by that I mean home-grown) football talent has gone way off the boil ever since they disbanded with the foreign player limitations in the European competitions.

[Park Life 71]

So serene was England's dominance that at no point did you find yourself howling at the pitch of your lungs the following; FOR FUCK'S SAKE, YOU PACELESS, ARROGANT, AGENT-COSSETTED, OVER-INDULGED, CULTURELESS, WAG-WHIPPED, FRECKLED, EARPLUGGED, SO-BORING-IN-INTERVIEWS-ON-FUCKING-FOOTBALL-FOCUS-THEY-HAVE-TO-FAST-CUT-TO-PHOTOS-OF -YOUR-HANDS-AND-FLIP-FROM-COLOUR-TO-BLACK-AND-WHITE, GOLDEN SHOWER OF A FUCKING NON-GENERATION, WILL YOU STOP PASSING THE BALL AROUND LIKE A) IT'S A FUCKING BLACK ROUND BOMB WITH A BURNING FUSE , THE LIKE OF WHICH YOU ONLY GET IN THE BEANO OR THE BATMAN FILM WITH ADAM FUCKING WEST, OR IT'S POSSIBLE TO CATCH SOME WEIRD STRAIN OF FOOT-AIDS FROM A FUCKING FOOTBALL!

[Renton 21625]

I don't think the scoreline flattered them at all tbh.

First there is the hype and then there is the anti-hype. We were never as good as people hoped but we have not turned to shit overnight.

We're about 8th best in the world but we didn't play to that potential in a single game. We were shite against Germany I'm afraid. Whether that's a true reflection of how good we actually are is a different matter. Germany are no great shakes which makes it worse for me.

 

What potential? There is no potential imo. England are not a top 10 side and things are only going to get worse.

You're just a wonderful ray of sunshine you aren't you?

 

Where's the young talent coming through though? The premiership, for whatever reason, is killing the National game in England.

What a load of shite. There's as many players in La Liga foreign as there are here, and Spain are mint. We can build a decent side with the likes of Adam Johnson and Cattermole, they're not going to win anything but we'll manage.

 

I think England are getting progressively worse, this for me is the worst side since Taylor's outfit. Just an opinion like, but one that is backed by this tournament's performance. Also look at Germany, a young side which dominated England, and their under 21s, who also gave our lot a kicking. I may be wrong like but something isn't quite right, and your appraisal was completely wrong.

[Renton 21625]

The numbers of FOREIGN PLAYERS for Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool are 70,4%, 67,7%, 86,7% and 77,8% respectively.

 

This is the damning indictment for me.

 

The best 'English represented' clubs in the Premier League are Spurs and Man City and both of those are considered some way off the pace.

 

English (and by that I mean home-grown) football talent has gone way off the boil ever since they disbanded with the foreign player limitations in the European competitions.

 

Plus none of our players have experience playing in another country.